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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: Novus on Sat, 04 January 2014, 20:58:08

Title: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Novus on Sat, 04 January 2014, 20:58:08
My current setup is
1) SSD – 250GB (Windows, Microsoft Office, Adobe Products and other various system programs)
2) WD – 1TB Black Caviar drive (Games, Music)
3) Seagate -- 700GB. Salvaged from an older PC. 5400 RPM (Everything else - Used as my current drive for downloads, movies and etc)
4) External 1TB Drive (Backups)

Essentially this new drive will be a heavy-use media center for me. I’m looking for a reliable, long lasting drive that I will use to
1) Download large files and torrent
2) Store and watch large movie files and other media
3) Backup other drives
I won't be gaming on this drive.

I'm looking to grab a 3TB drive within a reasonable price range.
From my research, my choices seem to be limited between Western Digital, Seagate and possibly Toshiba.

So I'm debating between these:
1) Western Digital Green Caviar (http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Green-Desktop/dp/B004RORMF6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1388890274&sr=8-3&keywords=western+digital+green)
2) Western Digital Red NAS (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008JJLW4M)
3) Seagate Barracuda (http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST3000DM001/dp/B005T3GRLY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1388890378&sr=1-1&keywords=seagate+barracuda+3tb)
4) Toshiba Hard Drive (http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-3-5-Inch-SATA3-Drive-DT01ACA300/dp/B00B229W04)


I'm currently leaning on a Western Digital Green Caviar 3TB.

I know that the Western Digital Green and Reds are "slower" drives and the Barracuda spins at 7200RPM. I won't be using the Western Digital Red drives for their NAS and networking functions. The Western Digital black series is, of course, a very good hard drive but I feel that it would be wasted as a media storage drive. While, the Seagate Barracuda seems to be a better performing drive - I'm not sure if I want to go for this since this is media storage drive. Toshiba has a very bad reputation when it comes to consumer hard drives.

Any insights on which drive to pick or any other suggestions?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:04:58
1) crap
2) Literally the worst choice on the board
3) crap
4) crap

Get a WD Caviar Black, never look back.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: dustinhxc on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:14:25
Damn I only have 1.5gb and a 1gb. I just bought my wife a 2gb though. i use wd but i got her seagate, thats what she likes.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:18:50
Damn I only have 1.5gb and a 1gb. I just bought my wife a 2gb though. i use wd but i got her seagate, thats what she likes.

Hopefully, you aren't talking to us from your pentium 2 and thinking how great 128k DSL is.

Caviar black or one of them hybrid drives.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: inteli722 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:18:52
No real experience with the Reds or the Toshibas, but I'll put my 2 cents in.

The Caviar Green I had was fine. Nothing really bad about it.
Every Seagate I've had has died rather quickly. Cannot recommend.

From what I've heard, Reds are just Greens with a stable rotation rate and ensured reliability because NAS.

I'd say Greens are probably your best option from the 4.

Dammit, I need to grab a couple of 3 TB drives.

EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

EDIT 2: Amended recommendation
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:21:22
From what I've heard, Reds are just Greens with a stable rotation rate and ensured reliability because NAS, so if you need ensured reliability, then I'd guess Reds are your best option.

No. I forgot to mention, DO NOT BUY WD REDS FOR YOUR COMPUTER. They are designed for NAS's not due to "ensured reliablity" but they don't spin down as often as a normal drive does, along with some other F/W Tweaks. The WD Reds will give you no benefit in a consumer computer, and you are just wasting money.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:22:40
EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

that $60 gets you a drive that performs 15% better and comes with a warranty lasting 3 years longer. I'd say well worth it, especially when it comes to something like hard drives.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:24:42
I got 2 Reds for redundant external storage because of 1. 3-year warranty, and 2. they were on a sale when I got them :)  For internal storage, I'd definitely go with Black for the warranty, otherwise 1tb-platter Blue.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: inteli722 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:25:06
EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

that $60 gets you a drive that performs 15% better and comes with a warranty lasting 3 years longer. I'd say well worth it, especially when it comes to something like hard drives.

And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:26:25
EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

that $60 gets you a drive that performs 15% better and comes with a warranty lasting 3 years longer. I'd say well worth it, especially when it comes to something like hard drives.

And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

Where are you getting that he has a budget besides "duh, everyone has a budget"?  He also asks for other suggestions.  We complied.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:26:26
And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

The topic is "Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive" so telling him he has to spend $60 to get a not "terrible terrible" hard drive is doing exactly what he's asking us to do if his budget really is strict.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: demik on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:27:47
my caviar black died within 6 months of owning it :(

my spinpoint has been going strong for 3 years now
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:28:12
my caviar black died within 6 months of owning it :(

my spinpoint has been going strong for 3 years now

There's always that one guy.  This time it's you.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: inteli722 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:29:10
EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

that $60 gets you a drive that performs 15% better and comes with a warranty lasting 3 years longer. I'd say well worth it, especially when it comes to something like hard drives.

And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

Where are you getting that he has a budget besides "duh, everyone has a budget"?  He also asks for other suggestions.  We complied.


And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

The topic is "Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive" so telling him he has to spend $60 to get a not "terrible terrible" hard drive is doing exactly what he's asking us to do if his budget really is strict.

He also has:

Quote
The Western Digital black series is, of course, a very good hard drive but I feel that it would be wasted as a media storage drive.

Suggesting a drive he's already ruled out isn't giving him additional suggestions.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:30:33
For longevity statistics, have a look here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1442015/et-how-long-do-hard-drives-actually-live-for

And there's a link to an older, more encompassing google study (http://static.googleusercontent.com/external_content/untrusted_dlcp/research.google.com/en/us/archive/disk_failures.pdf) in that thread as well.

Basically, if drives fail due to defects, they usually fail within the first few months.  That's why it's good to stress-test a drive when you first get it by filling it up completely and erasing a couple of times.  If there are any mechanical faults, they will be more likely to show up.  After that, drive failure rate is mostly very low, until some less significant imperfections and general wear begin to cause failures a few years into use.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:31:11
EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

that $60 gets you a drive that performs 15% better and comes with a warranty lasting 3 years longer. I'd say well worth it, especially when it comes to something like hard drives.

And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

Where are you getting that he has a budget besides "duh, everyone has a budget"?  He also asks for other suggestions.  We complied.


And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

The topic is "Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive" so telling him he has to spend $60 to get a not "terrible terrible" hard drive is doing exactly what he's asking us to do if his budget really is strict.

He also has:

Quote
The Western Digital black series is, of course, a very good hard drive but I feel that it would be wasted as a media storage drive.

Suggesting a drive he's already ruled out isn't giving him additional suggestions.

You mean like how he did here:


 Toshiba has a very bad reputation when it comes to consumer hard drives.

Any insights on which drive to pick or any other suggestions?
Thanks.

But still has it on the list?  Maybe tone down the sanctimony
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: demik on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:31:49
good.

while it worked, the caviar performed wonderfully.

but i just had some bad luck because my 5870 died a day after my warranty was up. but my 460 has been good.

Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: 127001 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:34:34
Get the WD Red.

It's designed to be at constant use at cost far less than enterprise drives. It is not crap, anyone who says that doesn't know what they are talking about at all.

You don't need speed. What you are doing doesn't require speed. This will be fast enough.

I have a bunch of Reds that I use in that same way in a RAID 5 format. I have some blacks in the same config which have failed twice; this is not a statistic however.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: inteli722 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:36:03
EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

that $60 gets you a drive that performs 15% better and comes with a warranty lasting 3 years longer. I'd say well worth it, especially when it comes to something like hard drives.

And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

Where are you getting that he has a budget besides "duh, everyone has a budget"?  He also asks for other suggestions.  We complied.


And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

The topic is "Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive" so telling him he has to spend $60 to get a not "terrible terrible" hard drive is doing exactly what he's asking us to do if his budget really is strict.

He also has:

Quote
The Western Digital black series is, of course, a very good hard drive but I feel that it would be wasted as a media storage drive.

Suggesting a drive he's already ruled out isn't giving him additional suggestions.

You mean like how he did here:


 Toshiba has a very bad reputation when it comes to consumer hard drives.

Any insights on which drive to pick or any other suggestions?
Thanks.

But still has it on the list?  Maybe tone down the sanctimony

And all he did was list what he saw as his options in what he deems a reasonable price range.

He's aware of what a WD Black is, how it performs, and its longevity. It's pretty clear it's not within what he deems "a reasonable price", as he didn't include it on the list and he said he felt it'd be wasted. Maybe read and interpret what he says
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:40:58
Get the WD Red.

It's designed to be at constant use at cost far less than enterprise drives. It is not crap, anyone who says that doesn't know what they are talking about at all.

You don't need speed. What you are doing doesn't require speed. This will be fast enough.

I have a bunch of Reds that I use in that same way in a RAID 5 format. I have some blacks in the same config which have failed twice; this is not a statistic however.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/desktop/

just because you're using a hard drive optimized for RAID performance, doesn't mean it's the one-stop end to all hard drives.

Like I said earlier, Red drives are not meant for one-off storage devices, they are for NAS devices (which employ RAID in case you didn't know).
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: inteli722 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:42:51
Get the WD Red.

It's designed to be at constant use at cost far less than enterprise drives. It is not crap, anyone who says that doesn't know what they are talking about at all.

You don't need speed. What you are doing doesn't require speed. This will be fast enough.

I have a bunch of Reds that I use in that same way in a RAID 5 format. I have some blacks in the same config which have failed twice; this is not a statistic however.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/desktop/ (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/desktop/)

just because you're using a hard drive optimized for RAID performance, doesn't mean it's the one-stop end to all hard drives.

Like I said earlier, Red drives are not meant for one-off storage devices, they are for NAS devices (which employ RAID in case you didn't know).

Considering it's optimized for RAID, which requires stability, I'd say they'd serve pretty well for media storage drives, which requires stability, albeit less so than RAID.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:46:40
Considering it's optimized for RAID, which requires stability, I'd say they'd serve pretty well for media storage drives, which requires stability, albeit less so than RAID.

That is the most retarded chain of logic I've ever seen...

That's like putting ice tires on your car, then driving on the ice, where they obviously work, then recommending ice tires to your friend in florida because they worked so well for you.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: 127001 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:47:17
Get the WD Red.

It's designed to be at constant use at cost far less than enterprise drives. It is not crap, anyone who says that doesn't know what they are talking about at all.

You don't need speed. What you are doing doesn't require speed. This will be fast enough.

I have a bunch of Reds that I use in that same way in a RAID 5 format. I have some blacks in the same config which have failed twice; this is not a statistic however.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/desktop/ (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/desktop/)

just because you're using a hard drive optimized for RAID performance, doesn't mean it's the one-stop end to all hard drives.

Like I said earlier, Red drives are not meant for one-off storage devices, they are for NAS devices (which employ RAID in case you didn't know).

Considering it's optimized for RAID, which requires stability, I'd say they'd serve pretty well for media storage drives, which requires stability, albeit less so than RAID.

Not being it RAID has nothing to do with it. It'll do just as well in JBOD config. It's design to be low heat and high longevity. This is what it'll do.

That is the most retarded chain of logic I've ever seen...

That's like putting ice tires on your car, then driving on the ice, where they obviously work, then recommending ice tires to your friend in florida because they worked so well for you.

HDDs != tires
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: demik on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:47:34
well you'll be doing the florida friend a favor because he'll crash and die and wont have to live in florida anymore!
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:49:56
Considering it's optimized for RAID, which requires stability, I'd say they'd serve pretty well for media storage drives, which requires stability, albeit less so than RAID.

That is the most retarded chain of logic I've ever seen...

That's like putting ice tires on your car, then driving on the ice, where they obviously work, then recommending ice tires to your friend in florida because they worked so well for you.

+1

Just get a caviar black

The extra $60 is worth it

Mine is still running like new after almost 2 years,
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: 127001 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:51:13
Considering it's optimized for RAID, which requires stability, I'd say they'd serve pretty well for media storage drives, which requires stability, albeit less so than RAID.

That is the most retarded chain of logic I've ever seen...

That's like putting ice tires on your car, then driving on the ice, where they obviously work, then recommending ice tires to your friend in florida because they worked so well for you.

+1

Just get a caviar black

The extra $60 is worth it

Mine is still running like new after almost 2 years,

The black is a good drive.

He doesn't need it or it's overhead.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:51:32
Not being it RAID has nothing to do with it. It'll do just as well in JBOD config. It's design to be low heat and high longevity. This is what it'll do.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6157/western-digital-red-review-are-nasoptimized-hdds-worth-the-premium

Quote
WD touted the following main points

Less aggressive head parking (no IntelliPark feature)
Configurable Time Limited Error Recovery (TLER), with a default of 7 seconds
IntelliPower disk rotation speeds (comparable to Green drives)
Vibration reduction mechanism in hardware
3-Yr. warranty and 24x7 phone support

I don't see anything about low heat or high longevity. I do see FW optimizations for a RAID environment...

That is the most retarded chain of logic I've ever seen...

That's like putting ice tires on your car, then driving on the ice, where they obviously work, then recommending ice tires to your friend in florida because they worked so well for you.

HDDs != tires

Quote
A metaphor is a figure of speech that describes a subject by asserting that it is, on some point of comparison, the same as another otherwise unrelated object.

I was trying to put in terms so he could understand it better.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: inteli722 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:55:20
Fine. OP's choice.

If you really think you need the Reds, then get the Reds. Otherwise, get Greens. No real point in getting Blacks for this task, and Blues don't come in 3TB.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: 127001 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:56:35
All I can say is that's what the Reds are designed for: Low heat and high longevity. As a person who test's hard drives as there job this is what I would buy for the price.

That said: I would never set up a media server and not have it in RAID. Every disk will fail. It doesn't matter who made it. It doesn't matter how much it cost. It doesn't matter what it's firmware is. Every disk will fail.

If you have data that matter on a disk put it in RAID.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:02:29
All I can say is that's what the Reds are designed for: Low heat and high longevity.

PLEASE show me a source for this, stop using something with no backing as one of the main points of your argument.

That said: I would never set up a media server and not have it in RAID. Every disk will fail. It doesn't matter who made it. It doesn't matter how much it cost. It doesn't matter what it's firmware is. Every disk will fail.

If you have data that matter on a disk put it in RAID.

RAID's expensive, both in cost, and lost possible storage. Also I'm not sure about OP, but 99% of my stored media is easily re-obtainable, through iTunes, or just ripping the disk myself again. So the cost of setting up a RAID device vastly outweighs the benefits.

Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: 127001 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:13:12
PLEASE show me a source for this, stop using something with no backing as one of the main points of your argument.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/computers/hands-reviews/western-digital-red-nas-internal-hard-drives-home-and-small-offices

Google.

I didn't bother posting this stuff because the OP is asking advise from people that know what they are talking about. Not for people to google stuff for them.

Done.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: demik on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:16:46
iamdumb
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: inteli722 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:18:41
PLEASE show me a source for this, stop using something with no backing as one of the main points of your argument.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248.html)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/computers/hands-reviews/western-digital-red-nas-internal-hard-drives-home-and-small-offices (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/computers/hands-reviews/western-digital-red-nas-internal-hard-drives-home-and-small-offices)

Google.

I didn't bother posting this stuff because the OP is asking advise from people that know what they are talking about. Not for people to google stuff for them.

Done.

both of your links, there is mention of low heat ONCE in the articles (bhphoto). and twice in the comments (toms hardware)

Maybe, I don't know, check the "Power and Temperature" section on the Tom's Hardware article, where they were the coolest running drives out of the testing bunch?
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:18:44
PLEASE show me a source for this, stop using something with no backing as one of the main points of your argument.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/computers/hands-reviews/western-digital-red-nas-internal-hard-drives-home-and-small-offices

Google.

I didn't bother posting this stuff because the OP is asking advise from people that know what they are talking about. Not for people to google stuff for them.

Done.

Tomshardware:
Quote
Western Digital's Red family is positioned in between the desktop and nearline drives. They're meant neither for typical desktop usage nor for large 19-inch rack-mounted servers. Instead, they’re being aimed at home office and small office network-attached storage appliances.

bhphotovideo is cool with the thermal camera, but by only saying "competitor" makes me believe they picked a worst-case scenario. I'd like to see them compare it to other WD drives, or at least say what the drive really is.

and

Quote
This innovative line of SATA hard drives is specifically designed for home and small office network attached storage (NAS) enclosures with one to five drive bays.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: dustinhxc on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:19:10
Holy crap I need to research hard drives better.. ;o I didnt know about these different colors. I just go on reviews, brand, and the price range after those two. I'm using Cable btw not DSL but I used to have DSL ;) Also I forgot about my externals. Two 1tb WDs. Does SeaGate really die quick? This one had good reviews.. Seagate Barracuda STBD2000101 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s I hope it is good for her! But yeah Ive never had over 1.5TB so I'm excited for her. Its crazy everyone here uses 3TB?  ;o I can see if you do Video editing or something.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: inteli722 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:19:54
PLEASE show me a source for this, stop using something with no backing as one of the main points of your argument.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248.html)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/computers/hands-reviews/western-digital-red-nas-internal-hard-drives-home-and-small-offices (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/computers/hands-reviews/western-digital-red-nas-internal-hard-drives-home-and-small-offices)

Google.

I didn't bother posting this stuff because the OP is asking advise from people that know what they are talking about. Not for people to google stuff for them.

Done.

Tomshardware:
Quote
Western Digital's Red family is positioned in between the desktop and nearline drives. They're meant neither for typical desktop usage nor for large 19-inch rack-mounted servers. Instead, they’re being aimed at home office and small office network-attached storage appliances.

bhphotovideo is cool with the thermal camera, but by only saying "competitor" makes me believe they picked a worst-case scenario. I'd like to see them compare it to other WD drives, or at least say what the drive really is.

and

Quote
This innovative line of SATA hard drives is specifically designed for home and small office network attached storage (NAS) enclosures with one to five drive bays.

(http://media.bestofmicro.com/S/Q/344474/original/drive_surface_temperature_c.png)

There you go!
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: demik on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:20:53
PLEASE show me a source for this, stop using something with no backing as one of the main points of your argument.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248.html)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/computers/hands-reviews/western-digital-red-nas-internal-hard-drives-home-and-small-offices (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/computers/hands-reviews/western-digital-red-nas-internal-hard-drives-home-and-small-offices)

Google.

I didn't bother posting this stuff because the OP is asking advise from people that know what they are talking about. Not for people to google stuff for them.

Done.

both of your links, there is mention of low heat ONCE in the articles (bhphoto). and twice in the comments (toms hardware)

Maybe, I don't know, check the "Power and Temperature" section on the Tom's Hardware article, where they were the coolest running drives out of the testing bunch?

yep, i saw it. no need for the attitude
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:23:33
Show Image
(http://media.bestofmicro.com/S/Q/344474/original/drive_surface_temperature_c.png)


There you go!

compared to

(http://static.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/indepth/sites/default/files/Thermal-Images.jpg)

showing a surface temperature hotspot of 50C, ~4C hotter than the "competitors" hotspot.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: damorgue on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:30:05
Be aware that longevity decreases with lower temperatures unlike the opposite preconception common these days. The longest lifespan occurs if the drives are kept at around 40C.

(http://i.imgur.com/mexJdhe.png)
Google has a large amount of disks and data to support this and they were the ones who showed that preconception to be false. Google have implemented heated cabinets to increase the longevity of their disks.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: inteli722 on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:32:33
Be aware that longevity decreases with lower temperatures unlike the opposite preconception common these days. The longest lifespan occurs if the drives are kept at around 40C.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/mexJdhe.png)

Google has a large amount of disks and data to support this and they were the ones who showed that preconception to be false. Google have implemented heated cabinets to increase the longevity of their disks.

Well then. I suppose this tells you the answer. Heated Cabinets.

Really, based on this, I would get the Greens.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: damorgue on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:36:58
The cabinets were some fancy recyclable energy thingies where they used the excess heat from other components to regulate the temperature of the disks. It would be sort of stupid if they just placed heating elements in there.


A personal thought: The drives are such high tolerance that the manufacturers have likely taken thermal expansions into account when designing the drives. I wonder what temperature they design them for and if this ideal service temperature might differ from drive to drive.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:44:15
Be aware that longevity decreases with lower temperatures unlike the opposite preconception common these days. The longest lifespan occurs if the drives are kept at around 40C.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/mexJdhe.png)

Google has a large amount of disks and data to support this and they were the ones who showed that preconception to be false. Google have implemented heated cabinets to increase the longevity of their disks.

Yes, my guess on that was that drives are designed for a specific tolerance window of physical expansion and contraction due to temperature changes (and corresponding air pressure), and it's uncommon for drives to be below room temperature.  On a related note, you haven't seen this, it's an interesting read about how precisely drives are manufactured and assembled:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1312694/information-as-to-why-not-to-open-a-hard-drive-to-repair-it

"In the past I have seen users ask about opening drives to attempt to do a platter swap and whatnot, but that is not  a feasible thing to do. Let me just go through a few things here as to why you should NEVER open a drive on your own and attempt a "fix".
 
Just the seemingly simple act of removing the cover on the drive will cause it to no longer work properly. The reason being is that each and every one of the screws on the cover have a specific torgue that they MUST be tightened with. The top cover with proper torque settings "set" the rest of the drive as the drive is calibrarted for the ever so slight warping of the casing caused by the torque from the screws on the cover!
 
Additionally dust is a HUGE concern. The heads that fly across the platters at 10000 Gs of acceleration are literally floating above the platters on a blanket of air caused by the platters spinning at 75MPH (7200RPM). These heads are just several 1000ths of an inch off the surface of the platter, so all it takes is a piece of dust to come along and it is hitting a car with a boulder. The platter and the heads can get damaged severely!
 
Along with the fact that the heads are "floating" across the plattters, they are also aligned within microns of where they have to be. Each drive has the heads aligned perfectly. Plus, you have to use a specific technique to get the heads back onto the platters if you remove the head stack and the heads have to be clean for proper functionality.
 
One last thing is the platters. They don't seem like much, but they are PERFECTLY aligned and tampering with the bolts that hold down the platters or even removing them can screw up the alignment of the platters. Not only are the aligned to be PERFECLY spaced (tolerances are within the 1000ths of an inch, if not less). Furthermore, they are also aligned so that the tracking information that is across all the platters are also perfect. If this is out of alignment even a hairs width, the data is in accessible as ALL the heads use this data to know where they are on the platters at all times. What this means is that platter swapping is COMLETELY out of the question, unless you got the equipment to realign the platters and tracking information (which differs from manufacture and even from drives from different manufacturing dates even though they are the same model). After that, realign the heads again (which differs from drive model and manufacturer and is a closely guided secret). If you do, then have fun. Then while you are at it, also re-write the firmware on the logic board so that it understands tracking information on the platters so it then knows how to modulation the voice coil to put the heads properly on the disk.
 
One last bit of trivia. You know that little hole on the drive that says "do not cover"? The drives operate to have the same air pressure as that on the outside and are not hermetically sealed. That is why when you go above 10000 feet you get head crashing and drive failure. There isn't enough air to float the heads across the platters.
 
 
This is a super simple down explaination. If you have questions, feel free to ask them here and I will answer them to the best of my ability.
 
 
TL;DR? DON'T OPEN HARD DRIVES!"
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: korrelate on Sat, 04 January 2014, 23:23:42
No real experience with the Reds or the Toshibas, but I'll put my 2 cents in.

The Caviar Green I had was fine. Nothing really bad about it.
Every Seagate I've had has died rather quickly. Cannot recommend.

From what I've heard, Reds are just Greens with a stable rotation rate and ensured reliability because NAS.

I'd say Greens are probably your best option from the 4.

Dammit, I need to grab a couple of 3 TB drives.

EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

EDIT 2: Amended recommendation


I don't know about reds vs. Greens because I'm black across the board on platters, intel on ssds but I second everything said about seagate: everything i bought from them btw roughly 2005-2009 met a very early end. I've avoided them without exception ever since.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Novus on Sun, 05 January 2014, 01:52:33
Spirited Discussion.
I should have explicitly elaborated that I generally compartmentalize my hard drive usage so I don't quickly wear down a drive containing important files.
That's why I don't generally download large files directly into my SSD and don't have any games/movies on my SSD.
I would only be using this new drive to download large files and store/watch "non-essential" media. I wouldn't be using this drive for anything else since this already a load on the HD.

My thinking process is essentially that I already have a fast SSD as my main drive, a black caviar drive for gaming, another drive for "heavy loads/abuse" and I just want a reliable storage drive.
I know many people were suggesting I get a black caviar drive and be done with it (under the assumption that the black caviar's performance would benefit me for other purposes as well - I surmise at least). Going under the assumption, I would have actually grabbed two hard drives: one high performance drive for applications and things that require it and one drive just to store media - since I don't like to mix and match my drives.

I'll definitely upgrade my tower with larger capacity high performance drives down the line when the times comes. Right now, I'm only basically looking for a download, storage and movie-watching drive. I think getting a black drive just for this is a bit of waste of a good drive, but at the same time I don't mind doing it if the other options suck. I think one of the reasons why I opened this thread is because I have some doubts about paying ~118 bucks for a 3TB 5400 RPM "Green" drive, even if I'm only going to be using this as a media storage drive.




Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 05 January 2014, 02:23:09
OH man... you JUST MISSED   3TB Western Digital RED for $90 a piece a few days ago..... (http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-007.gif)
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 05 January 2014, 02:26:00
Also, the quality of the drive really doesn't matter for a storage drive..  2year warranty 5 year warranty,, WORTHLESS if all ur **** get's fudged.

If it's something important, you need a backup

If it's just large movie collection, have it spin down to prevent heat/ operational stress.. it'll also be way quieter..

Many people don't realize that their hard-drives are the loudest components in their PC.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Novus on Sun, 05 January 2014, 02:26:44
OH man... you JUST MISSED   3TB Western Digital RED for $90 a piece a few days ago.....
Show Image
(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-007.gif)


hahaha
I just googled that yea.
From Tigerdirect right?
I like how the Florida's Attorney General Complaint Link + BBB's complaint page is listed with the deal hahahaha.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 05 January 2014, 02:29:27
OH man... you JUST MISSED   3TB Western Digital RED for $90 a piece a few days ago.....
Show Image
(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-007.gif)


hahaha
I just googled that yea.
From Tigerdirect right?
I like how the Florida's Attorney General Complaint Link + BBB's complaint page is listed with the deal hahahaha.


Who cares... People got in on that .... I got 4x with 4 addresses to avoid suspicion (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/bye2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862494)


and at worst.. I could just call the CC company and get my money back...
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Novus on Sun, 05 January 2014, 02:36:46
OH man... you JUST MISSED   3TB Western Digital RED for $90 a piece a few days ago.....
Show Image
(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-007.gif)


hahaha
I just googled that yea.
From Tigerdirect right?
I like how the Florida's Attorney General Complaint Link + BBB's complaint page is listed with the deal hahahaha.


Who cares... People got in on that .... I got 4x with 4 addresses to avoid suspicion
Show Image
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/bye2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862494)



and at worst.. I could just call the CC company and get my money back...

That is true.
I will say I don't like 4myrebate.
My last purchase (around September) they denied my rebate saying that I basically had included nothing. I even documented everything I sent with a photo, right before I mailed it.
Those guys are a bunch of wankers.
Newegg gave me a courtesy gift card in the same amount though so I'm not that miffed.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 05 January 2014, 02:42:31
OH man... you JUST MISSED   3TB Western Digital RED for $90 a piece a few days ago.....
Show Image
(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-007.gif)


hahaha
I just googled that yea.
From Tigerdirect right?
I like how the Florida's Attorney General Complaint Link + BBB's complaint page is listed with the deal hahahaha.


Who cares... People got in on that .... I got 4x with 4 addresses to avoid suspicion
Show Image
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/bye2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862494)



and at worst.. I could just call the CC company and get my money back...

That is true.
I will say I don't like 4myrebate.
My last purchase (around September) they denied my rebate saying that I basically had included nothing. I even documented everything I sent with a photo, right before I mailed it.
Those guys are a bunch of wankers.
Newegg gave me a courtesy gift card in the same amount though so I'm not that miffed.


I video tape when I put the rebate together....  My trump card move..  I just post it onto Youtube and say... OK watch it you ffff.ers    and after I even threaten the video, they usually give me the credit...

It's undeniable evidence... and it's really easy a 2 minute video, get all the things in focus with the numbers names and addresses and proof of purchase
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 05 January 2014, 04:03:42
OH man... you JUST MISSED   3TB Western Digital RED for $90 a piece a few days ago.....
Show Image
(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-007.gif)


hahaha
I just googled that yea.
From Tigerdirect right?
I like how the Florida's Attorney General Complaint Link + BBB's complaint page is listed with the deal hahahaha.


Who cares... People got in on that .... I got 4x with 4 addresses to avoid suspicion
Show Image
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/bye2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862494)



and at worst.. I could just call the CC company and get my money back...

That is true.
I will say I don't like 4myrebate.
My last purchase (around September) they denied my rebate saying that I basically had included nothing. I even documented everything I sent with a photo, right before I mailed it.
Those guys are a bunch of wankers.
Newegg gave me a courtesy gift card in the same amount though so I'm not that miffed.


I video tape when I put the rebate together....  My trump card move..  I just post it onto Youtube and say... OK watch it you ffff.ers    and after I even threaten the video, they usually give me the credit...

It's undeniable evidence... and it's really easy a 2 minute video, get all the things in focus with the numbers names and addresses and proof of purchase

So you put your name, address and receipts on YouTube?


On Topic......I can't speak for 2TB drives but in my work station my 1TB Seagate is a smidge faster than my 1TB black. Both have been going for ~3yrs with no issues.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 05 January 2014, 04:09:38
OH man... you JUST MISSED   3TB Western Digital RED for $90 a piece a few days ago.....
Show Image
(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-007.gif)


hahaha
I just googled that yea.
From Tigerdirect right?
I like how the Florida's Attorney General Complaint Link + BBB's complaint page is listed with the deal hahahaha.


Who cares... People got in on that .... I got 4x with 4 addresses to avoid suspicion
Show Image
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/bye2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862494)



and at worst.. I could just call the CC company and get my money back...

That is true.
I will say I don't like 4myrebate.
My last purchase (around September) they denied my rebate saying that I basically had included nothing. I even documented everything I sent with a photo, right before I mailed it.
Those guys are a bunch of wankers.
Newegg gave me a courtesy gift card in the same amount though so I'm not that miffed.


I video tape when I put the rebate together....  My trump card move..  I just post it onto Youtube and say... OK watch it you ffff.ers    and after I even threaten the video, they usually give me the credit...

It's undeniable evidence... and it's really easy a 2 minute video, get all the things in focus with the numbers names and addresses and proof of purchase

So you put your name, address and receipts on YouTube?

Yes.... I used to use Youtube years ago, for the receipts because there weren't ways to send large emails..

Today, I could just email the video.


And if you're actually WORTH hacking...  it wouldn't be at all hard for a hacker to get to you...

It's like asking a master criminal to go rob a homeless person.. There's just not enough in it for him to bother..


Master Criminal hackers are scoring millions in stolen bitcoins... 

If they get my CC number and identity.. At best they'll get away with buying a tv or something on newegg.. which has happened to me before.. LOL..  CC company always refund though, because their insurance plan covers it.

Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 05 January 2014, 15:24:28
Listen to 127001, ignore everyone else who have no idea they're talking about.

(...and by everyone I basically mean kmiller8)
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 05 January 2014, 16:23:08
Lately I have been favoring Seagate ST*000DM00*. They always seem to be a good price whenever I find myself needing more storage and those I have been solid so far. Sure Seagate had a rather bad patch and decline in quality when they absorbed Maxtor lines, but they have definitely improved again since absorbing Samsung. I've not had any problems with my Hitachi or Toshiba drives either. Seem to end up never buying WD since they always are more expensive and I don't see any point.
Personally I can't wait for hdd to go away. If I could afford to, or if suddenly ssd became the same price per TB I would replace all hdd tomorrow.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: smknjoe on Sun, 05 January 2014, 17:49:28
Listen to 127001, ignore everyone else who have no idea they're talking about.

(...and by everyone I basically mean kmiller8)

Pretty much. I'll add a plus one for RAID. It's not expensive at all and just requires 2 or 3 drives. No other hardware is needed.


Lately I have been favoring Seagate ST*000DM00*. They always seem to be a good price whenever I find myself needing more storage and those I have been solid so far. Sure Seagate had a rather bad patch and decline in quality when they absorbed Maxtor lines, but they have definitely improved again since absorbing Samsung. I've not had any problems with my Hitachi or Toshiba drives either. Seem to end up never buying WD since they always are more expensive and I don't see any point.
Personally I can't wait for hdd to go away. If I could afford to, or if suddenly ssd became the same price per TB I would replace all hdd tomorrow.

This guy seems to have real experience as well and is correct about Maxtor being crap. You can't go wrong with Seagate or WD as long as you don't go with the "green" or power saving models. I tend to prefer Seagate for the same reason as Ivan.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: audioave10 on Sun, 05 January 2014, 18:12:16
My only experience for the last 12 years is with WD Blues & Blacks...never a failure.
Sometimes, it depends on where you are at and how things are shipped to you. You should always be aware of how much possible damage can occur with the shipping companies who service you or your area.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: godly_music on Sun, 05 January 2014, 19:41:18
Any drive can and will fail. Even the best brands can fizz out after a few months or 2 years. It's all happened to me before, so the conclusion is that reliable and long-lasting, a harddisk is not. Period. Clunky old 500 MB drives lasted a long time, yes, but the new stuff's all shiny and ****ty rolled into one - made to fail after a time.

Buy cheap, buy different brands and use RAID if you want to carry on through a failure. But as it was said, if you have no trouble filling and re-filling that drive with the stuff you want, reliability might not even be your primary concern here.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: kmiller8 on Sun, 05 January 2014, 19:50:09
This thread in a nutshell
>Don't spend $60 extra on a good hard drive
>Spend $140 extra to get two ****ty hard drives
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: godly_music on Sun, 05 January 2014, 19:52:59
I wouldn't knock a WD Red at all, that was more a reference to 'harddrive monoculture' where you buy a couple of drives that are the same model. Then you end up with all of them being from the same manufacturing batch and boom.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 05 January 2014, 20:15:43
This thread in a nutshell
>Don't spend $60 extra on a good hard drive
>Spend $140 extra to get two ****ty hard drives

Or rather....

 Don't spend $60 extra on a technically better hard drive which will actually make next to zero difference for the purposes you want the drive for.

 Two cheap hard drives in a raid array are a much better proposition than a better drive, for the purposes you want the drive for.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Danule on Mon, 06 January 2014, 10:12:13
1) crap
2) Literally the worst choice on the board
3) crap
4) crap

Get a WD Caviar Black, never look back.

WUT... caviar greens are good for secondary drives as they power down when not in use, which saves on energy, you only need the black (which is always on) when it is a heavy use drive.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 06 January 2014, 10:41:37
1) crap
2) Literally the worst choice on the board
3) crap
4) crap

Get a WD Caviar Black, never look back.

WUT... caviar greens are good for secondary drives as they power down when not in use, which saves on energy, you only need the black (which is always on) when it is a heavy use drive.

They are horrible when using some file systems, in particular a few linux ones, which regularly write a little to the disk. This causes it to park excessively and eventually causes a premature failure of the disk because of the large number of park cycles.

Edit: The older WD greens could have this feature turned off by flashing them but the newer ones had that feature locked in order to force the buyer to select a more expensive drive which lacked this "feature".
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: daerid on Mon, 06 January 2014, 12:41:57
On my home Ubuntu server I have an old (really old... purchased in 2007) WD 250GB hard drive. This drive gets fairly minimal use (it's not a media server or anything, mainly it's just for SSH/git, a few small services I wrote, and hosting a low-traffic game or two).

However, I know the hard drive is dying. The damn thing is 7 years old, it needs to be shot. What would be the best drive to get to replace it? I'm open to an SSD setup too.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 06 January 2014, 14:52:11
If you don't need a lot of storage space, I see no reason not to replace hdd with ssd whenever possible. Grab a Samsung EVO and call it a day.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: IPT on Mon, 06 January 2014, 15:10:13
If you don't need a lot of storage space, I see no reason not to replace hdd with ssd whenever possible. Grab a Samsung EVO and call it a day.

besides price right?
and using a SSD for storage media?  $300+ for a 500GB SSD sounds like a plan!

OP, just go with the WD Greens, they're fine for storage devices for your average window user.

I myself used them in my computers for years along with Seagates and WD Blacks.  As a storage device there's really no reason to spend the $$ on a Black Drive unless you'll be accessing the data on that drive frequently.

Oh and if you wanna buy a 2TB WD Green HDD i'll sell you one for $70.00
I used to use that to store stuff b4 I moved my computer to the 350D and only have 2 HDD racks.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 06 January 2014, 15:39:15
OP already made a choice and is set. I was replying that last to daerid. As we know hdd is biggest bottleneck in a 21st century computer. For any use beside static storage ssd is the way to go in my eyes.
You're certainly right, with current prices you would have to have much more money than sense to go with ssd for static file storage. Prices do keep coming down on larger capacity ssd though. It's only a matter of time before we reach equilibrium with hdd prices and hdd start to phase out.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Skull_Angel on Mon, 06 January 2014, 18:47:45
Screw NAND SSDs! Where are the danmed civilian/consumer phase change SSDs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-change_memory) already!?
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Wildcard on Mon, 06 January 2014, 19:38:31
Hitachi has made some great hard drives for the past 5 years. They were acquired by WD and go under the name HGST Storage now. You can buy the drives in an external enclosure and remove them and end up with a 7200rpm drive at a much lower cost then the WD blacks.

I've yet to have a single drive fail and I've got 20+ of the 2TB drives.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: GeorgeStorm on Tue, 07 January 2014, 05:44:27
I currently have a couple of Samsung drives, couple of Hitachi, and just bought my 2nd Toshiba 3tb (got my first a couple of weeks ago)
Went for the Toshiba drives since they offered a longer warranty at the same price point, and since they're just for media performance isn't an issue whatsoever.
Not had any problems with any of those drives so far :) Only drive I've had die on my was a WD Blue I believe, and within a couple of months, as others have said, drives will often die very quickly or not for years and years.
In the UK the price of black drives is just extortionate sadly, even though the warranty is nice.

If it's just for media I would base it quite a lot on warranty, since performance doesn't matter and everyone will probably be able to tell you of someone who had a drive from x manufacturer and it died early etc.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 07 January 2014, 06:48:31
Every WD drive I ever bought for my own use died on me. I used to sell PC's as a side business until fairly recently and by far the highest failure rate was with WD drives. Seagates were decent, but still had some failures (particularly the higher rpm Baracuda line).

Toshiba drives (laptop drives in particular) have a high failure rate, too.

Hitachi drives were very good until Toshiba bought them. I haven't bought one recently, so I'm not sure if they've bacome as bad as the Toshibas or are still good, but worth researching.

Very early Samsungs died easily, but their quality improved quickly and they became the "go-to" brand for me until they were bought by Seagate (even then, I still use them).

Not sure what the latest WD drives are like nowadays, but I stay away on principle, since their track record with me has been absolutely appalling.

At the moment I would recommend a low rpm Samsung drive, based on personal and friend's experiences. It seems they are still a little better than the equivalent Seagates even though they are supposed to have been made by the same company (perhaps the QA is just a little better or the process or materials used are different somehow).

I'd also recommend looking into Hitachis, to see what people are saying about them since I don't have recent experience with them, but going on their old drives, they are worth a look.

Lower rpm drives have a lower failure rate in general.

TLDR: Get a low rpm Samsung, Seagate or Hitachi rather than any Western Digital or Toshiba.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: Danule on Tue, 07 January 2014, 09:06:11
Every WD drive I ever bought for my own use died on me. I used to sell PC's as a side business until fairly recently and by far the highest failure rate was with WD drives. Seagates were decent, but still had some failures (particularly the higher rpm Baracuda line).

Toshiba drives (laptop drives in particular) have a high failure rate, too.

Hitachi drives were very good until Toshiba bought them. I haven't bought one recently, so I'm not sure if they've bacome as bad as the Toshibas or are still good, but worth researching.

Very early Samsungs died easily, but their quality improved quickly and they became the "go-to" brand for me until they were bought by Seagate (even then, I still use them).

Not sure what the latest WD drives are like nowadays, but I stay away on principle, since their track record with me has been absolutely appalling.

At the moment I would recommend a low rpm Samsung drive, based on personal and friend's experiences. It seems they are still a little better than the equivalent Seagates even though they are supposed to have been made by the same company (perhaps the QA is just a little better or the process or materials used are different somehow).

I'd also recommend looking into Hitachis, to see what people are saying about them since I don't have recent experience with them, but going on their old drives, they are worth a look.

Lower rpm drives have a lower failure rate in general.

TLDR: Get a low rpm Samsung, Seagate or Hitachi rather than any Western Digital or Toshiba.

that is interesting, i have never had any WD drives fail on me,  the oldest one i have is around 7 years old.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: godly_music on Sat, 18 January 2014, 08:47:45
I had three WD5000AAKS fail on me, all within two years of getting them. Two I bought, one was a replacement. And then they claimed I'd scratched the last one I sent in for warranty. Every Samsung monitor I bought died shortly after warranty expired as well.

Like I said. Everybody's got a failure story with Brand X and there are no exceptions. Look at good warranties more than good drive specs. The 5 year warranty on my external Seagate already made it a good investment. Yep, I had to send that in, too.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: dustinhxc on Sun, 19 January 2014, 14:25:44
Both of my WD externals failed. a 500gb a couple years ago and now my 1tb :(

I just ordered this for my new external:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Mercury_Electra_6G]http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Mercury_Electra_6G/]http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Mercury_Electra_6G (http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Mercury_Electra_6G/)

Both of my internals are Seagate Barracudas..  Running great..

Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: kmiller8 on Wed, 22 January 2014, 07:38:50
Stumbled over this article earlier

http://blog.backblaze.com/2014/01/21/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/

27,134 hard drives "tested" :eek:
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 22 January 2014, 07:44:30
Stumbled over this article earlier

http://blog.backblaze.com/2014/01/21/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/

27,134 hard drives "tested" :eek:

The seagates do 270MB/s peak 130MB/s inner ring..  those hitachi's put out 160MB/s peak 100MB/s inner ring...

Soooooo.... that makes a difference..   
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 22 January 2014, 12:45:20
As usual seagate results get super skewed by a few turd models. I still think all the terrible ones come from the old Maxtor lines. They are still some of the fastest consumer grade hdd.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: kmiller8 on Wed, 22 January 2014, 12:56:55
As usual seagate results get super skewed by a few turd models. I still think all the terrible ones come from the old Maxtor lines. They are still some of the fastest consumer grade hdd.

lol "a few" with all 7 of the seagate models used having a higher failure rate than any hitachi or western digital drive.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: tgujay on Wed, 22 January 2014, 13:01:05
I'm late to the party but I love my 3TB Seagate Barracuda.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 22 January 2014, 13:04:57
I'm late to the party but I love my 3TB Seagate Barracuda.

^^ this x6
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: tgujay on Wed, 22 January 2014, 13:40:35
I'm late to the party but I love my 3TB Seagate Barracuda.

^^ this x6

That's my graduation present to myself in May.  Can't wait to have a stupid amount of storage.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 22 January 2014, 14:43:00
Heheh. I had been thinking about starting again the rolling capacity upgrade to 4TB in my home server to replace all the 2TB I have now. They are all at 75% filled now so it's a good time to really start coming up with a plan. It's amazing how fast space goes when hording HD movies/tv shows... plus keeping a backup of all games so don't have to download them again and wait hours to install over steam. It's crazy how big some games are these days pushing into 30GB.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: damorgue on Wed, 22 January 2014, 16:33:02
Heheh. I had been thinking about starting again the rolling capacity upgrade to 4TB in my home server to replace all the 2TB I have now. They are all at 75% filled now so it's a good time to really start coming up with a plan. It's amazing how fast space goes when hording HD movies/tv shows... plus keeping a backup of all games so don't have to download them again and wait hours to install over steam. It's crazy how big some games are these days pushing into 30GB.

The security decreases with larger drives. I made a quite stupid choice once of selecting 2TB drives instead of twice as many 1TB drives. The latter is statistically far safer if you put them in a raid array. The rebuild time becomes too long with fewer larger drives compared to a larger number of smaller ones, and the risk of another failure increases since the time window increases. With a larger number, the rebuild times are faster and it allows for a larger number of redundant disks. Example:
three 2TB + one 2TB spare
six 1TB + two 1TB spares
The above two are equal in size and wasted space, but the latter can withstand one more disk failure and rebuilds faster, meaning less time for another disk to fail during the rebuild.

Edit. Not directed towards Ivan, but more of a general comment. I didn't know this when I selected the sizes of my disks. I have considered swapping mine for smaller ones.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 22 January 2014, 17:02:46
I don't deal with raid for home use. It just seems totally pointless to me. Too much higher cost and extra risk for too little benefit. These days I mostly use Windows servers, and take advantage of the libraries features for shares. It's nice to have crap across 2-4 disk but still appear to be in same folder. I also tend use itx for servers so generally am limited to 4-6 disk. If you don't use big disk, then you don't have much storage per box.
Otherwise if I use something besides Windows I use BSD with ZFS.
Even if I were to set up something for business, I would prefer to go with some high performance SAS stuff and use ZFS. It gives you all the benefits of raid5/6, but generally have much faster rebuild... and if the controller frys you can move the ZFS array to ANYTHING. I've had to deal with trying to migrate arrays to another controller when original had failed and it was impossible to find exact replacement as it had EOL for some time... it can be very unpleasant.

As far as I am concerned, it doesn't matter in any case if disk fail in single, raid or whatever. If that is only copy it was a very silly choice.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: damorgue on Wed, 22 January 2014, 17:47:45
I too am a proponent of ZFS and software raid. It was more of a pointer to anyone interested in building their own NAS or similar solution that larger disk=less reliable.
Title: Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
Post by: dustinhxc on Wed, 22 January 2014, 17:54:56
In my current desktop I have a Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB ST31500341AS and a Seagate Barracuda 1TB ST1000DM003. Now I have the 240GB OWC 6G Mercury SSD External. Id love to swap my internals for a 240GB OWC 6G Pro SSD and a 3TB Seagate Barracuda.