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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Pacifist on Mon, 06 January 2014, 17:37:12

Title: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 06 January 2014, 17:37:12
I was swapping keycaps on my 11900 modded partially with clears from mk.com.
They were a PITA to pull out, I even pulled one cap out with the stem and top still attached.
My stock blacks on the other hand were effortless to pull out.

So why did cherry make clear stems thicker now? An error or are they doing it on purpose?
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: sth on Mon, 06 January 2014, 17:38:40
clear plastic is bigger than black plastic
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: stancato9 on Mon, 06 January 2014, 17:39:46
I haven't soldered my clears yet but I have the exact same problem. It is very frustrating and seems it could do some damage to the caps or switch if you aren't careful.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: Puddsy on Mon, 06 January 2014, 17:40:43
See: SP DCS stems being so tight

probably something to do with their intention of the use of clears.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 06 January 2014, 17:43:36
Yea, it's really weird.... they're very hard to put on and dislodge.... (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/8c460310.gif)
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: Alessandro on Mon, 06 January 2014, 17:43:59
That's what Cherry want you to think.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 06 January 2014, 17:44:42
That's what Cherry want you to think.

Cherry conspiracy thread #5
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: Alessandro on Mon, 06 January 2014, 17:47:19
That's what Cherry want you to think.

Cherry conspiracy thread #5

That's what the Ergodox wants you to think.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 06 January 2014, 17:49:58
That's what Cherry want you to think.

Cherry conspiracy thread #5

That's what the Ergodox wants you to think.

I only have clears in the periphery keys on my Egdx, the rest are blacks..  Coincidence or Conspiracy thread #6 ???
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: 1pq on Mon, 06 January 2014, 17:54:06
That's what Cherry want you to think.

Cherry conspiracy thread #5

That's what the Ergodox wants you to think.

I only have clears in the periphery keys on my Egdx, the rest are blacks..  Coincidence or Conspiracy thread #6 ???

Why that combo?
I could have sworn you said somewhere you had blues...
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 06 January 2014, 18:01:22
That's what Cherry want you to think.

But I put cherry clears on a cherry board with cherry keys....
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: tbc on Mon, 06 January 2014, 18:03:56
Anyone done clears with DSA?  Sounds scary tight.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: Alessandro on Mon, 06 January 2014, 18:07:14
That's what Cherry want you to think.

But I put cherry clears on a cherry board with cherry keys....

But that's what they want you to think! Why don't you get this man!? D:
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 06 January 2014, 18:11:43
That's what Cherry want you to think.

Cherry conspiracy thread #5

That's what the Ergodox wants you to think.

I only have clears in the periphery keys on my Egdx, the rest are blacks..  Coincidence or Conspiracy thread #6 ???

Why that combo?
I could have sworn you said somewhere you had blues...

No, I said, cherry Blue is the most advanced, least perceptible friction switch..

My Egdx came with clears, and I put in blacks after, because I didn't feel like I need the tactile response. And I prioritized for low noise because my room became way more quiet after I turned off the harddrives.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: Grendel on Mon, 06 January 2014, 21:03:55
I was swapping keycaps on my 11900 modded partially with clears from mk.com.
They were a PITA to pull out, I even pulled one cap out with the stem and top still attached.
My stock blacks on the other hand were effortless to pull out.

So why did cherry make clear stems thicker now? An error or are they doing it on purpose?

Looks like it's on purpose, the clear stem mold is different -- if you look very closely at the stem of the clears you'll see little "bumps" (for the lack of a better word. Maybe "ridges" would work tho) on it that are most likely the cause for the clears to grab on to the caps. I have not found them on blue, red, brown, black, or green stems of the switches available to me. I tried to get a picture of one (there are four on a stem), hard to see but gives you an idea what and where to look for.

(http://s24.postimg.org/7rn46jbgx/MG_2364.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/7rn46jbgx/) (http://s24.postimg.org/q8m4b3gsx/MG_2364_Edit.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/q8m4b3gsx/)

My clears from mk.com, in the CM Storm Switch Demo, and in a Deck Legend Frost all have them.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 06 January 2014, 21:17:48
Clears aren't any thicker.  I've taken calipers to them and they're the same thickness as other stems.  They have a different cutout on the front side and do have that little nub on the sides that Grendel mentioned though.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 06 January 2014, 21:20:08
Anyone done clears with DSA?  Sounds scary tight.

I didn't have any issue with DSA....

GMK keys have been a very tight fit however.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: daerid on Mon, 06 January 2014, 23:28:17
Clears were manufactured to be used in high-traffic and industrial applications, so the caps fit on tighter to avoid accidental removal.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: MJ45 on Tue, 07 January 2014, 09:26:50
Clears aren't any thicker.  I've taken calipers to them and they're the same thickness as other stems.  They have a different cutout on the front side and do have that little nub on the sides that Grendel mentioned though.
I have measured them and found that they are thicker. But not by much like a half a thousandth (0.0005) or so. On the latest Phantom I built with new MX Clear switches when I tried removing also new GMK caps for some spring tuning, I pulled several switch tops off. After that I used some older looser caps until I found my spring choice (65g). The difference in the stem bumps and slightly thicker stems add up to some extremely tight cap fits. It would easy to damage switches if your not careful changing keycaps, especially the tight ones.     
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: damorgue on Tue, 07 January 2014, 09:30:44
Show Image
I was swapping keycaps on my 11900 modded partially with clears from mk.com.
They were a PITA to pull out, I even pulled one cap out with the stem and top still attached.
My stock blacks on the other hand were effortless to pull out.

So why did cherry make clear stems thicker now? An error or are they doing it on purpose?

Looks like it's on purpose, the clear stem mold is different -- if you look very closely at the stem of the clears you'll see little "bumps" (for the lack of a better word. Maybe "ridges" would work tho) on it that are most likely the cause for the clears to grab on to the caps. I have not found them on blue, red, brown, black, or green stems of the switches available to me. I tried to get a picture of one (there are four on a stem), hard to see but gives you an idea what and where to look for.

(http://s24.postimg.org/7rn46jbgx/MG_2364.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/7rn46jbgx/)
(http://s24.postimg.org/q8m4b3gsx/MG_2364_Edit.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/q8m4b3gsx/)

My clears from mk.com, in the CM Storm Switch Demo, and in a Deck Legend Frost all have them.

Those notches exist on other switches as well, but on different sides. Some stems have them facing the cherry logo while others have them facing the LED hole. I never got why this is. The only reason I ca think of is that some of the switches are designed to be used upside down, so that the LED is located at the upper end of the cap under the legend rather than at the lower part.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 07 January 2014, 09:31:33
Clears aren't any thicker.  I've taken calipers to them and they're the same thickness as other stems.  They have a different cutout on the front side and do have that little nub on the sides that Grendel mentioned though.
I have measured them and found that they are thicker. But not by much like a half a thousandth (0.0005) or so. On the latest Phantom I built with new MX Clear switches when I tried removing also new GMK caps for some spring tuning, I pulled several switch tops off. After that I used some older looser caps until I found my spring choice (65g). The difference in the stem bumps and slightly thicker stems add up to some extremely tight cap fits. It would easy to damage switches if your not careful changing keycaps, especially the tight ones.     

Mine were just as thick as either Blacks or Browns (it was a while ago, so I forgot) and a hair thicker than Blues.  They all fell within the normal thickness range for Cherry MX stems though.  The stem really isn't any thicker than any other Cherry MX stem aside from that little bump on the front.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: kmiller8 on Tue, 07 January 2014, 09:32:51
Those notches exist on other switches as well, but on different sides. Some stems have them facing the cherry logo while others have them facing the LED hole. I never got why this is.

Have you tried flipping the stem around? OuO
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: Wildcard on Tue, 07 January 2014, 09:42:29
clear plastic is bigger than black plastic

They keep saying it's length that matters, but it's really width.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: Grendel on Tue, 07 January 2014, 13:33:02
Tactile Grey's (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Tactile_Grey) have the same bumps (http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:CherryMX_diff_grey_brown_068487.jpg), easier to see on those.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: damorgue on Tue, 07 January 2014, 14:36:27
Those notches exist on other switches as well, but on different sides. Some stems have them facing the cherry logo while others have them facing the LED hole. I never got why this is.

Have you tried flipping the stem around? OuO
You heard it here first folks.


Kmiller8's Insta-linear mod TM
So linear, there isn't even any actuation at all.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: Pacifist on Wed, 26 February 2014, 17:50:56
Show Image
I was swapping keycaps on my 11900 modded partially with clears from mk.com.
They were a PITA to pull out, I even pulled one cap out with the stem and top still attached.
My stock blacks on the other hand were effortless to pull out.

So why did cherry make clear stems thicker now? An error or are they doing it on purpose?

Looks like it's on purpose, the clear stem mold is different -- if you look very closely at the stem of the clears you'll see little "bumps" (for the lack of a better word. Maybe "ridges" would work tho) on it that are most likely the cause for the clears to grab on to the caps. I have not found them on blue, red, brown, black, or green stems of the switches available to me. I tried to get a picture of one (there are four on a stem), hard to see but gives you an idea what and where to look for.

(http://s24.postimg.org/7rn46jbgx/MG_2364.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/7rn46jbgx/)
(http://s24.postimg.org/q8m4b3gsx/MG_2364_Edit.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/q8m4b3gsx/)

My clears from mk.com, in the CM Storm Switch Demo, and in a Deck Legend Frost all have them.

Could we file them down?
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: phoenix1234 on Wed, 26 February 2014, 18:25:39
I was swapping keycaps on my 11900 modded partially with clears from mk.com.
They were a PITA to pull out, I even pulled one cap out with the stem and top still attached.
My stock blacks on the other hand were effortless to pull out.

So why did cherry make clear stems thicker now? An error or are they doing it on purpose?

Confirmed, at least on what I have.
Maybe it is an error or it is just production coefficient?

As far as I know and test, different Cherry MX stem has slightly different tightness with keycap :

Clear >> Blue ~ Brown ~ Black ~ Green >> Red
*Clear is very tight on OEM keycap sets
*Red is very loose on imsto side printed keycap set

It's just my personal test on 4 keycap sets:
+ 2 Cherry imsto Keycap sets (side printed and dye-sub)
+ 1 Cherry original set
+ 1 OEM WASD keycap set
+ 2 OEM Filco stock set

However, don't quote me on this because maybe Cherry has many different production lines and molds.
Title: Re: Why are clear stems so thick?
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 27 February 2014, 05:25:40
Anyone done clears with DSA?  Sounds scary tight.
I have tested a PBT DSA key on a Cherry clear switch ... and then decided to NOT use it for my keyboard build. It is scary tight.