don't taller caps have more travel before hitting the plastic on the switch housing?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you bottom out on a key, you hit the bottom of the switch, regardless of the cap, right? So what's with everyone saying cherry profile has a shorter travel distance? Just because the cap itself is higher shouldn't make the distance to bottom out is any longer... Right? :eek:
The caps don't hit the switch. The slider inside the switch hits the bottom of the casing first.
Yeah, the keycaps don't hit the housing, I got so tied of people saying that is what the bottoming out sound comes from I cut a keycap in half and took a picture.
Switch fully depressed, no cap/housing contact.Show Image(http://cdn.overclock.net/7/74/900x900px-LL-7454eea2_DSC_0539.jpeg)
It most certainly has the cross sections in it, it is just slightly transparent in the picture since the light is so bright.Yeah, the keycaps don't hit the housing, I got so tied of people saying that is what the bottoming out sound comes from I cut a keycap in half and took a picture.
Switch fully depressed, no cap/housing contact.Show Image(http://cdn.overclock.net/7/74/900x900px-LL-7454eea2_DSC_0539.jpeg)
that key has no internal latis-- therefore the sound is coming from the slider of the key switch hitting the bottom of the housing.
Cherry keycaps have that cross-bar which does make contact with the housing. I dislike SP keys because they lack the cross-bar lattice
Only reasonable thing to do, Binge, is cut one of your vintage cherry keycaps in half and take a similar pic.:))
Only reasonable thing to do, Binge, is cut one of your vintage cherry keycaps in half and take a similar pic.
It most certainly has the cross sections in it, it is just slightly transparent in the picture since the light is so bright.Yeah, the keycaps don't hit the housing, I got so tied of people saying that is what the bottoming out sound comes from I cut a keycap in half and took a picture.
Switch fully depressed, no cap/housing contact.Show Image(http://cdn.overclock.net/7/74/900x900px-LL-7454eea2_DSC_0539.jpeg)
that key has no internal latis-- therefore the sound is coming from the slider of the key switch hitting the bottom of the housing.
Cherry keycaps have that cross-bar which does make contact with the housing. I dislike SP keys because they lack the cross-bar lattice
Red is the key outline, green is the cros section.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/SFOQlN2.jpg)
Now I wish I had some keycaps to cut in half :rolleyes:
If you put o-rings on your keycaps, then it does make a difference. The same o-ring will change the travel distance differently on an OEM vs Cherry profile. That is possibly where the confusion comes from.Ah yes. The crossbars on Cherry profile are lower than the crossbars on OEM profile.
Now I wish I had some keycaps to cut in half :rolleyes:
If you put o-rings on your keycaps, then it does make a difference. The same o-ring will change the travel distance differently on an OEM vs Cherry profile. That is possibly where the confusion comes from.Ah yes. The crossbars on Cherry profile are lower than the crossbars on OEM profile.
With Cherry profile keycaps use "orthodontic bands" instead. They are thinner -- too thin for OEM profile but just right for Cherry. 3/16" Medium is the right size.
Legend | | Switch w/o keycap |
Up | 14.95mm |
Dn | 10.95mm |
Travel | 4mm |
Legend | | Switch w/ keycap | | Switch w/ keycap + RED o-ring | | Switch w/ keycap + BLACK o-ring |
Up | 18.15mm | 18.2mm | 18.45mm |
Dn | 14mm | 14.7mm | 15.3mm |
Travel | 4.15mm | 3.5mm | 3.15mm |
Legend | | Switch w/ keycap | | Switch w/ keycap + RED o-ring | | Switch w/ keycap + BLACK o-ring |
Up | 18.55mm | 18.55mm | 18.55mm |
Dn | 14.65mm | 14.7mm | 15mm |
Travel | 3.9mm | 3.85mm | 3.55mm |
I updated my previous post to include OEM and reformatted the data a bit...
I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-o-ring-switch-dampeners-125pcs.html#ad-image-0) sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website (http://www.keyboardco.com/product/o-ring-switch-dampeners-for-filco-keyboards.asp), the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.
I don't think this helps with anything, but I got bored with a dremel
(http://i.imgur.com/Od18mtx.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/Od18mtx.jpg)
I used an imsto thick pbt cap.
y u do dis?
y u do dis?
It's just a cherry and a thumb, not a horrific injury.
I don't think this helps with anything, but I got bored with a dremelShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/Od18mtx.jpg)
I used an imsto thick pbt cap.
Great work, swill! :thumb:
This is one of those references that should be stickied I reckon. Something like the MX spring force measurements post. Great for people deciding which orings to get.
I don't think this helps with anything, but I got bored with a dremelShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/Od18mtx.jpg)
I used an imsto thick pbt cap.
:confused: If keycap does not hit the switch, what else could explain the difference in travel 4.15 - 3.9 = 0.25 ?
I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-o-ring-switch-dampeners-125pcs.html#ad-image-0) sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website (http://www.keyboardco.com/product/o-ring-switch-dampeners-for-filco-keyboards.asp), the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.
I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-o-ring-switch-dampeners-125pcs.html#ad-image-0) sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website (http://www.keyboardco.com/product/o-ring-switch-dampeners-for-filco-keyboards.asp), the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.
I have purchased several bags of red O-rings from the Keyboard Company, and as far as can tell they are approximately 1.5mm thick. They are relatively soft, I think they are 40A.
I have tried stacking two of them in a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with browns are the keys were still usable. They had naturally a very short travel, but still worked. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it did not prevent key actuation.
In any case, with just one installed per key, they do a very good work of dampening the sound without changing too much the mechanical feel. The bottoming out doesn't feel too mushy either.
I have also ordered the blue ones from WASD. I may report on them when I get them, probably next week.
I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-o-ring-switch-dampeners-125pcs.html#ad-image-0) sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website (http://www.keyboardco.com/product/o-ring-switch-dampeners-for-filco-keyboards.asp), the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.
I have purchased several bags of red O-rings from the Keyboard Company, and as far as can tell they are approximately 1.5mm thick. They are relatively soft, I think they are 40A.
I have tried stacking two of them in a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with browns are the keys were still usable. They had naturally a very short travel, but still worked. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it did not prevent key actuation.
In any case, with just one installed per key, they do a very good work of dampening the sound without changing too much the mechanical feel. The bottoming out doesn't feel too mushy either.
I have also ordered the blue ones from WASD. I may report on them when I get them, probably next week.
OEM profile I am assuming?
I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-o-ring-switch-dampeners-125pcs.html#ad-image-0) sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website (http://www.keyboardco.com/product/o-ring-switch-dampeners-for-filco-keyboards.asp), the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.
I have purchased several bags of red O-rings from the Keyboard Company, and as far as can tell they are approximately 1.5mm thick. They are relatively soft, I think they are 40A.
I have tried stacking two of them in a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with browns are the keys were still usable. They had naturally a very short travel, but still worked. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it did not prevent key actuation.
In any case, with just one installed per key, they do a very good work of dampening the sound without changing too much the mechanical feel. The bottoming out doesn't feel too mushy either.
I have also ordered the blue ones from WASD. I may report on them when I get them, probably next week.
OEM profile I am assuming?
Well... Huh... I think so. I'm using the standard keycaps on this Filco TKL.
I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-o-ring-switch-dampeners-125pcs.html#ad-image-0) sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website (http://www.keyboardco.com/product/o-ring-switch-dampeners-for-filco-keyboards.asp), the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.
I have purchased several bags of red O-rings from the Keyboard Company, and as far as can tell they are approximately 1.5mm thick. They are relatively soft, I think they are 40A.
I have tried stacking two of them in a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with browns are the keys were still usable. They had naturally a very short travel, but still worked. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it did not prevent key actuation.
In any case, with just one installed per key, they do a very good work of dampening the sound without changing too much the mechanical feel. The bottoming out doesn't feel too mushy either.
I have also ordered the blue ones from WASD. I may report on them when I get them, probably next week.
I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-o-ring-switch-dampeners-125pcs.html#ad-image-0) sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website (http://www.keyboardco.com/product/o-ring-switch-dampeners-for-filco-keyboards.asp), the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.
I have purchased several bags of red O-rings from the Keyboard Company, and as far as can tell they are approximately 1.5mm thick. They are relatively soft, I think they are 40A.
I have tried stacking two of them in a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with browns are the keys were still usable. They had naturally a very short travel, but still worked. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it did not prevent key actuation.
In any case, with just one installed per key, they do a very good work of dampening the sound without changing too much the mechanical feel. The bottoming out doesn't feel too mushy either.
I have also ordered the blue ones from WASD. I may report on them when I get them, probably next week.
That's interesting, thanks! So the 2mm thickness that they claim the o-rings to have, is actually wrong? Did you use a caliper when measuring? If you're right, it seems like the (red) o-rings that The Keyboard Company sell are the same as the red ones that WASD sell (thought they could still be made of a different type of rubber, I suppose). That's good to know.
Please do write a few words about the blue WASD o-rings when you get them, that would be appreciated.
I don't have any o-rings myself yet, but I do intend to get some. I'm just not sure wether to get the blue or red WASD ones (or something of the same sort elsewhere).
I appreciate the info as well! What o-rings are you using though? And how come you identify them only by colour? (I geniounly wonder, I'm not being snarky.) Have some sort standard for o-rings and colours developed in the mechanical keyboard community, or what? I'm asking since the o-rings that WASD (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-o-ring-switch-dampeners-125pcs.html#ad-image-0) sells are blue: 5 mm diameter, 1.7 mm thick and red: 5 mm diameter and 1.5 mm thick (as per e-mail correspondens with one of the empoyees). And the blue they sell are the same size, however slighlty softer than the black rings they sold previously, I think. However, looking at Keyboardco's website (http://www.keyboardco.com/product/o-ring-switch-dampeners-for-filco-keyboards.asp), the o-rings that they sell (they only sell one size) are red and 2mm thick. At least that is what they say.
I have purchased several bags of red O-rings from the Keyboard Company, and as far as can tell they are approximately 1.5mm thick. They are relatively soft, I think they are 40A.
I have tried stacking two of them in a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with browns are the keys were still usable. They had naturally a very short travel, but still worked. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it did not prevent key actuation.
In any case, with just one installed per key, they do a very good work of dampening the sound without changing too much the mechanical feel. The bottoming out doesn't feel too mushy either.
I have also ordered the blue ones from WASD. I may report on them when I get them, probably next week.
That's interesting, thanks! So the 2mm thickness that they claim the o-rings to have, is actually wrong? Did you use a caliper when measuring? If you're right, it seems like the (red) o-rings that The Keyboard Company sell are the same as the red ones that WASD sell (thought they could still be made of a different type of rubber, I suppose). That's good to know.
Please do write a few words about the blue WASD o-rings when you get them, that would be appreciated.
I don't have any o-rings myself yet, but I do intend to get some. I'm just not sure wether to get the blue or red WASD ones (or something of the same sort elsewhere).
I did not use a caliper, I don't have one.
I have used a ruler, and it's very clear that they are well under 2mm. To my eyes, exactly between 1 and 2mm. So yes, the numbers from the Keyboard Company are simply wrong.
Actually, these O-rings are almost always get wrong measurements from the companies that sell them. For example, WASD claims that their red ones have a 0.2mm reduction travel (=thickness) and the red ones have 0.4mm reduction travel. It does not make any sense. I think the red ones are around 1.5mm thick and the blue ones 2mm.
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-o-ring-switch-dampeners-125pcs.html#ad-image-0
So before purchasing any O-ring, it's a good idea to check here on Geekhack what others say about them.
Hint: if you order O-rings, purchase several types. An O-ring bag is generally less expensive that the shipping fees...
I am still a little confused after reading your great guide. I have a Filco M2 Camo with black switches, what size o-ring would I need to minimize the travel as much as possible while still having a switch that works and caps that stay on? First timer with Mech keyboards, thanks in advance for any insight!