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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Coreda on Mon, 13 January 2014, 02:26:27

Title: Help me make the switch to mechanical! [up: switch impressions]
Post by: Coreda on Mon, 13 January 2014, 02:26:27

I've been a lurker here on and off for a while, ogling at all of the custom boards and caps and apparently ecstasy-inducing typing experiences had by some, and wanted some feedback on my first mechanical keyboard  :)

After many rounds of "this vs that" searches around Geekhack and elsewhere I think I'm down to this selection:

- Poker II
- Quickfire Rapid

The HHKB is still in mind, but for the price and lack of customization options I think the Cherry boards are the way I'll go (disappointing I missed some of the great GBs  :D).

I have no experience typing on mechanical switches before apart from a Goldtouch numpad I own with Brown switches. It's very light and makes a higher pitched and louder clacking sound than my RD keyboard and Macbook's chiclet - neither or which are bad things, but I'm wondering if Reds or Blacks would be better as I've heard they're smoother and quieter.

WASDKeyboards has a sampler set for sale which include o-rings, but unsure if that's a good indication of the differences. Any thoughts?

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: tuxsavvy on Mon, 13 January 2014, 02:41:53

Both Poker II and Quickfire Rapid are of two different keyboard sizes. It is not wise to really compare a full sized keyboard with 60% likewise the opposite. Unless you are planning on getting both which would not seem to be too bad of a choice either. Both of them are Cherry MX switches.

HHKB may get a real nasty shock when the customisations come into effect for Cherry MX compatible Topre stems. Coolermaster is doing it so are the Chinese clones. Soon enough there might be ways for one to swap the sliders of HHKB out for one that can also take Cherry MX key caps. That said it is only useful when swapping keycaps for that matter. There are aftermarket firmware and/or controller for HHKB as well (same goes with Cherry MX) also bluetooth (but still primitive at this stage). Cherry MX switches may have better exposure in the market so that may have lead to the amount of customisations possible whereas Topre seems to be fairly restricted.

I think with MX Browns you may also like MX Reds. There is a bit of a love/hate between the two but possibly those two are alike. I personally have not tried any of the MX switches but soon enough I maybe able to get my dose of MX switch starting with MX brown (it is a Cherry ErgoPlus keyboard which comes out with a mixture of MX browns and very few MX super blacks).

Never tried WASDKeyboards so I cannot comment much about it.

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: dorkvader on Mon, 13 January 2014, 02:43:57

I own both the QFR and the poker2.

About the sound: after you learn to bottom out less (or not at all) the sound of the keybaord is primarily from the "top out" sound of the keyswitch returning to the top of it's travel. I guess of the two, the poker2 is less, as there's less area under the PCB to act as an acoustic resonanting cavity, but since both are plate mounted, they both sound similar. O-rings will only help the bottom out noise.

So for me, the non-clicky switches really sound the same.

I find switch samplers a bit odd, as It's easiest to determine if you like a switch or not by trying a KB full of them to type on a little, though many others have gained much insight from such samplers.

The good news is: both are great options, so you can't lose! also, mechanical kbs tend to have high resale values, so if you do'nt like it, you can always sell it and buy a different one.

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: RESPRiT on Mon, 13 January 2014, 02:46:43

Either option is good. If you think you can handle going with a 60%, I would recommend the Poker II over the Rapid. If you do think you want to go with the Rapid later, consider buying one when they're on sale or a used one. They can be around $50 to $60 on sale or used, so you'll save yourself a nice bit of money (if that matters to you).

Browns to me are like bare-able Reds. I dislike Reds, but the bump on Browns is just enough for me to enjoy them. The Reds vs. Browns debate has lots of opinions to it though.

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 13 January 2014, 03:02:03

QFR :)

One of the most highly recommended keyboard ever.  I have two (well, one QFR and none QFS, which is basically the same thing, and I changed keycaps on both anyway).

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: Coreda on Mon, 13 January 2014, 03:20:23

Quote from: RESPRiT on Mon, 13 January 2014, 02:46:43

Either option is good. If you think you can handle going with a 60%, I would recommend the Poker II over the Rapid. If you do think you want to go with the Rapid later, consider buying one when they're on sale or a used one. They can be around $50 to $60 on sale or used, so you'll save yourself a nice bit of money (if that matters to you).

Browns to me are like bare-able Reds. I dislike Reds, but the bump on Browns is just enough for me to enjoy them. The Reds vs. Browns debate has lots of opinions to it though.

I've always admired a good 60% design (those GON boards HNNNNG!). Testing my full-size board with an HHKB-replicating AHK script the arrow combo is usable. Still not sure if I can use modifier keys on top of Poker Pn programmed combos, anyone tried this? Apparently it is.

Quote from: dorkvader on Mon, 13 January 2014, 02:43:57

I own both the QFR and the poker2.

The good news is: both are great options, so you can't lose! also, mechanical kbs tend to have high resale values, so if you don't like it, you can always sell it and buy a different one.

True. And both using standard-sized keys they fit all such custom caps, so +1. Might be a last minute decision, haha.

Wish I knew what Reds felt like. The Browns feel quite fun but I do wonder if a linear switch would feel a little better. Maybe I'll go Browns for the first board.

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: Tony on Mon, 13 January 2014, 03:33:58

I suggest QFR.

For newbies like you, brown is a safe bet. Once you get to know more about mech keyboards, you can buy any switch color.

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 13 January 2014, 03:48:21

Quote from: Coreda on Mon, 13 January 2014, 03:20:23

Wish I knew what Reds felt like. The Browns feel quite fun but I do wonder if a linear switch would feel a little better. Maybe I'll go Browns for the first board.

Reds feel like smooth browns, but without that slight gritty bump.

Blacks are like stiffer reds.  I like blacks, but a lot of people report finder/hand fatigue using them for a while.

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: RESPRiT on Mon, 13 January 2014, 04:25:44

Quote from: rowdy on Mon, 13 January 2014, 03:48:21

Quote from: Coreda on Mon, 13 January 2014, 03:20:23

Wish I knew what Reds felt like. The Browns feel quite fun but I do wonder if a linear switch would feel a little better. Maybe I'll go Browns for the first board.

Reds feel like smooth browns, but without that slight gritty bump.

Blacks are like stiffer reds.  I like blacks, but a lot of people report finder/hand fatigue using them for a while.

I think avoiding heavier switches might be a good idea for a newer user. Fatiguing isn't that uncommon and can make typing on a mech a pain.

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 13 January 2014, 05:26:27

Quote from: RESPRiT on Mon, 13 January 2014, 04:25:44

Quote from: rowdy on Mon, 13 January 2014, 03:48:21

Quote from: Coreda on Mon, 13 January 2014, 03:20:23

Wish I knew what Reds felt like. The Browns feel quite fun but I do wonder if a linear switch would feel a little better. Maybe I'll go Browns for the first board.

Reds feel like smooth browns, but without that slight gritty bump.

Blacks are like stiffer reds.  I like blacks, but a lot of people report finder/hand fatigue using them for a while.

I think avoiding heavier switches might be a good idea for a newer user. Fatiguing isn't that uncommon and can make typing on a mech a pain.

we can't assume he'll **** out from the heavy-switches though...

Maybe he has big burly arms with ape like hairi-ness.


If you type with a quick motion, like on a typewriter.. heavier switches is fine..

If you're the lazy wrist typer that mushes the key down with only finger strength, then get lighter switches.

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: Coreda on Mon, 13 January 2014, 05:56:33

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 13 January 2014, 05:26:27

we can't assume he'll **** out from the heavy-switches though...

Maybe he has big burly arms with ape like hairi-ness.


If you type with a quick motion, like on a typewriter.. heavier switches is fine..

If you're the lazy wrist typer that mushes the key down with only finger strength, then get lighter switches.

:lol It's funny, I think I might be warming to the idea of 60g force switches. Love this description I read:

"…but once adjusted you really don't bottom out at all on MX Blacks. Your fingers become like little ninjas, floating effortlessly across keys like so many rooftops, rapidly, silently assassinating keystrokes, one by one."

Decisions, decisions  ;D

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: yasuo on Mon, 13 January 2014, 06:09:09

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 13 January 2014, 05:26:27

Quote from: RESPRiT on Mon, 13 January 2014, 04:25:44

Quote from: rowdy on Mon, 13 January 2014, 03:48:21

Quote from: Coreda on Mon, 13 January 2014, 03:20:23

Wish I knew what Reds felt like. The Browns feel quite fun but I do wonder if a linear switch would feel a little better. Maybe I'll go Browns for the first board.

Reds feel like smooth browns, but without that slight gritty bump.

Blacks are like stiffer reds.  I like blacks, but a lot of people report finder/hand fatigue using them for a while.

I think avoiding heavier switches might be a good idea for a newer user. Fatiguing isn't that uncommon and can make typing on a mech a pain.

we can't assume he'll **** out from the heavy-switches though...

Maybe he has big burly arms with ape like hairi-ness.


If you type with a quick motion, like on a typewriter.. heavier switches is fine..

If you're the lazy wrist typer that mushes the key down with only finger strength, then get lighter switches.

Heavy typist  :cool:

Quote from: Coreda on Mon, 13 January 2014, 05:56:33

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 13 January 2014, 05:26:27

we can't assume he'll **** out from the heavy-switches though...

Maybe he has big burly arms with ape like hairi-ness.


If you type with a quick motion, like on a typewriter.. heavier switches is fine..

If you're the lazy wrist typer that mushes the key down with only finger strength, then get lighter switches.

:lol It's funny, I think I might be warming to the idea of 60g force switches. Love this description I read:

"…but once adjusted you really don't bottom out at all on MX Blacks. Your fingers become like little ninjas, floating effortlessly across keys like so many rooftops, rapidly, silently assassinating keystrokes, one by one."

Decisions, decisions  ;D

Blacks is balanced switch :)) not lighter or stiffer

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: Coreda on Tue, 14 January 2014, 04:46:18

I've done the wise thing and ordered a Cherry sampler kit from WASDKeyboards. I just had to know how they all feel. Should be here in a week or so  ;D

In the meantime I modified the AHK 60% format layer I've been trialing on my full size keyboard, specifically the arrow keys and 6-pack cluster arrangement.

Arrow keys: PL;' (up, left, down, right)
Page Down/Up: >/ (I found Pg Down felt better being first)
Home/End: []

All using right Shift as the Pn control btw (the only button I'd be remapping via software if I chose the Poker II).

For the Arrow keys my fingers are in the more accustomed to inverted T position, and it's right beside the Enter key on the home row.

Will see how this holds up against the HHKB defaults  ;)

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 14 January 2014, 07:38:47

Just be aware that pressing a raw switch that you are holding in your hand will not really give you the feeling of typing on a keyboard.

Actually the CM Switch Tester is probably the closest I have used in the few switch testers that are around.

Title: Re: Help me make the switch to mechanical!
Post by: Coreda on Fri, 24 January 2014, 05:28:54

So, received one of the samplers today ;D

(http://abload.de/img/glow-toplquc7.jpg)

Deck Cherry MX sampler

Switch impressions

Reds definitely feel as I imagined they would - smooth all the way down. Not featherweight or 'too light', just about right imo - although I can see how it might be difficult to not accidentally press a key if you're resting fingers on them. The other switch colors offer a better sense of resistance while resting, even the Browns with their bump give you a sense just resting on the top.

Blues surprisingly sound less annoying than in videos I've seen, but of course that's only a single key. The sound could almost be described as a woman tapping a typewriter with her fingernails. I can understand how some people love them with their tactility and click, it's a pleasurable sensation (having a board must be hypnotic  :))). If Browns feel/sound 'chalky'/clay-like Blues are like cutting something bumpy with scissors. They also require a slight amount more force to depress than Browns.

Blacks are like the Reds but feel smoother due to the increased spring pressure. I think they're closest to the rubber dome pressure on my current board, minus the rubbery bump force at the top. The pressure when fully depressed is heavier, however. The bounce-back I read about is also true about the Blacks, my finger comes right back up - more so than the Reds.

Update!:

Clears Feel like much better Browns. The tactile bump is distinct and satisfying, while taking more force to bottom out. I'd honestly like to try a full board with these some time as unmounted switches never give a full picture.


Conclusion

Coming from a rubber dome I was wanting a switch that fatigued less, so a lighter switch seemed a good fit. The Browns are a good middle-ground and add a bit of variety compared with the linear Reds, but something about the bump made me want to try the other switch types. As the sampler I received doesn't register keys onscreen I can't tell how easily I'd actuate on Reds, but afaik it's the same distance as Browns.

I've yet to try the Clears, but the boards I'm considering lack that option anyway. Will update when I do Done!  :D


Some more pics of the sampler

More

(http://abload.de/img/normal-front8tue5.jpg) (http://abload.de/img/normal-backm2uhm.jpg) (http://abload.de/img/normal-closeupmvuj2.jpg) (http://abload.de/img/glow-backgcuxb.jpg) (http://abload.de/img/glow-front-2yzucj.jpg) (http://abload.de/img/glow-frontw3uqf.jpg)