geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: BGD on Mon, 13 January 2014, 02:39:10
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Advice time for a Topre virgin.
Super interested in getting a Topre board. I've done my research but I'd like to hear some personal opinions about different Topre boards.
So, Tell me about your HHKBs and Realforce beauties. What is there to love and hate? And no, I will not be buying both like some would suggest.
Thanks.
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Advice time for a Topre virgin.
Super interested in getting a Topre board. I've done my research but I'd like to hear some personal opinions about different Topre boards.
So, Tell me about your HHKBs and Realforce beauties. What is there to love and hate? And no, I will not be buying both like some would suggest.
Thanks.
Well if you in Cape Town you can try out my HHKB if you wanna come check it out.
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Topre. The last keyboard you ever need
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Topre. The last keyboard you ever need
I really hope you are right, my HHKB arrives today!
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Topre. The last keyboard you ever need
I really hope you are right, my HHKB arrives today!
If I may ask, where did you order it from? Thanks I might just take you up on that offer.
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HHKB owner here.
Love:
- The unique sort of layout that is available as only 60%. How many other keyboards have you seen that have replaced two commonly used keys by swapping their positions? Not that many I would say.. not from keyboard manufacturers.
- The accessories that are available for one to pamper their HHKB with. Though I guess the same set of accessories maybe can more or less also be used on other 60%.
- The fact that there is hasu's TMK firmware and board for HHKB. Again hasu's TMK firmware can be used on other keyboards but the alternative controller board for HHKB remains more or less exclusive to HHKB.
- The feeling of typing on cup rubber (which is also somewhat something that I loathe as I will note later).
- The fact that it is probably quite rare, not many people can afford HHKB. This may come as a bit of elitism but the price may seem justifiable when one does their homework and finds out the HHKB seems to be more and more suited to their needs.
Loathe:
- The lack of customisation available for HHKB. Although Cherry MX compatible Topre stems may change the game once there are stems that are compatible with HHKB. Then again there are no fancy modifications like LED backlighting for instance. I guess when it comes to Topre range of keyboards they are generally seen as no nonsense sort of keyboard that will work just like it is meant to be without any fancy stuff added to it. You can think of it as a purpose built race car that is not comfortable to be used as a daily driver but it does what it was intended to do, to race.
- The price factor, I think soon enough there might not be enough of price justification once Chinese clones manages to make something similar to HHKB with similar sort of Topre switch at a cheaper price. Sure HHKB may worth the high price tag if everything was solely made in Japan but at the same time it may raise concerns when you have Leopold FC660C and Type Heaven for instance.
- I guess the divided community between varying "factions" of HHKB. You have HHKB Lite which HHKB Pro owners may say otherwise about HHKB Lite owners. Then you have HHKB Pro JP which also has HHKB Pro2 owners may have something to comment otherwise.
- The addictive feeling of typing on cup rubber. If one likes the feeling of typing on Topre switches, they may find that it is hard(er) to move away from Topre keyboards simply because the feeling is too hard to resist.
- The manufacturer's warranty. If you have bought your HHKB straight from Japan for instance your HHKB is automatically voided of any warranties because the warranty specifically states that it is valid in Japan. I am not sure otherwise for those whom bought it from elitekeyboards but in my case I cannot get mine from elitekeyboards.
Neutral:
- Silenced variants: The eerie feeling that the keyboard is extremely quiet (as it was meant to be - considering one had to pay a premium).
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I have HHKB.
It feels fantastic. Looks great.
The smaller layout, especially combined with the lack of dedicated arrow keys and F1..F12, makes for a steeper learning curve than, say, a TKL RealForce.
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Ordered from PFU direct with a proxy service, they had a christmas special and you got a wrist wrest and some caps free :)
That is the best way to do it for us here. You can try second hand but they disappear quickly.
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I took the leap and just bought one, I've had it for about a week and I don't think I could ever go back to a non Topre keyboard.
While I'm on the topic, do they plan to keep making these? Or should I stock pile them?
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I have HHKB.
It feels fantastic. Looks great.
The smaller layout, especially combined with the lack of dedicated arrow keys and F1..F12, makes for a steeper learning curve than, say, a TKL RealForce.
I do own a Poker II. I prefer to use the 60% rather than the TKL that I have so the HHKB is way more appealing than the Realfore TKL.
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I took the leap and just bought one, I've had it for about a week and I don't think I could ever go back to a non Topre keyboard.
While I'm on the topic, do they plan to keep making these? Or should I stock pile them?
It is hard to ascertain whether or not will PFU make more of these HHKB. There were rumours about Realforce no longer stocking/selling those spare key cap sets which may make it hard for one to purchase key cap sets for Topre based keyboards in general. PFU HHKB may be unaffected by this issue as I have heard that they have their own source of key cap manufacturer. However if such is the case HHKB maybe sold at a much higher price if such was to happen.
On another issue are the Topre clones coming from China notably, their impact as of writing maybe small but combined with Coolermaster's instance of Topre equivalent switch, the real Topre realm may seem get violated as a result once these become mainstream. Cloning switches maybe hard but cloning the keycaps and all once the hard part is more or less sorted out is relatively easy. Already there are lots of manufacturers elsewhere making their own set of keycaps so keycap cloning issue is not that big compared to switches being cloned which was more or less just recent for Topre realm it seems. As a result this may either drive HHKB out or force HHKB to be sold at lower prices.
As a whole it depends on how PFU reacts to such instances, with Realforce not selling key caps (and maybe force Topre owners for instance to purchase HHKB spare key cap sets for their Topre board) and that there are clones that will soon be released, not to mention with sliders that will be compatible with both Cherry MX key caps as well as Topre keycaps as opposed to HHKB only compatible with Topre keycaps. It will be an interesting albeit challenging time ahead for PFU.
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If you must get topre today.. the Leopold FC is the best one out..
HHKB and Topre 87, they're both a bit of price gouging on part of the vendors.. There's no way import tax costs an extra $100..
Topre is a rubber dome keyboard despite the 2mm actuation distance like cherry mx.
So, you're really not going to feel a difference between your old rubber dome keyboard and the new Topre-board..
This is neither a down nor an upside..
Some people like rubber dome feel....
Either way.. You should try to buy at least 5 or so keyboards so you can really "decide", and then sell the rest in the classifieds..
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I took the leap and just bought one, I've had it for about a week and I don't think I could ever go back to a non Topre keyboard.
While I'm on the topic, do they plan to keep making these? Or should I stock pile them?
It is hard to ascertain whether or not will PFU make more of these HHKB. There were rumours about Realforce no longer stocking/selling those spare key cap sets which may make it hard for one to purchase key cap sets for Topre based keyboards in general. PFU HHKB may be unaffected by this issue as I have heard that they have their own source of key cap manufacturer. However if such is the case HHKB maybe sold at a much higher price if such was to happen.
On another issue are the Topre clones coming from China notably, their impact as of writing maybe small but combined with Coolermaster's instance of Topre equivalent switch, the real Topre realm may seem get violated as a result once these become mainstream. Cloning switches maybe hard but cloning the keycaps and all once the hard part is more or less sorted out is relatively easy. Already there are lots of manufacturers elsewhere making their own set of keycaps so keycap cloning issue is not that big compared to switches being cloned which was more or less just recent for Topre realm it seems. As a result this may either drive HHKB out or force HHKB to be sold at lower prices.
As a whole it depends on how PFU reacts to such instances, with Realforce not selling key caps (and maybe force Topre owners for instance to purchase HHKB spare key cap sets for their Topre board) and that there are clones that will soon be released, not to mention with sliders that will be compatible with both Cherry MX key caps as well as Topre keycaps as opposed to HHKB only compatible with Topre keycaps. It will be an interesting albeit challenging time ahead for PFU.
Thanks for that, it does make more sense now. What is Coolermaster's instance of Topre equiv?
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Got my Realforce today. I love it. I had the mindset that I wouldn't enjoy it at first, but grow accustomed to it after a while - but after my first keystrokes, I knew I had made the right choice. It's a pretty unique and awesome typing experience. Works well for gaming as well. :thumb:
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So, you're really not going to feel a difference between your old rubber dome keyboard and the new Topre-board..
lol
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If you must get topre today.. the Leopold FC is the best one out..
HHKB and Topre 87, they're both a bit of price gouging on part of the vendors.. There's no way import tax costs an extra $100..
Topre is a rubber dome keyboard despite the 2mm actuation distance like cherry mx.
So, you're really not going to feel a difference between your old rubber dome keyboard and the new Topre-board..
This is neither a down nor an upside..
Some people like rubber dome feel....
Either way.. You should try to buy at least 5 or so keyboards so you can really "decide", and then sell the rest in the classifieds..
yeah i like feel RD than mecha for tactile :p
i want try toper too :)
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What I hate is that Topre seems more inconsistent than either rubber dome or cherry MX in terms of actuation force. I don't have a huge sample size, but I have had 2 Topre keyboards, and both had a variation in actuation force of over 10g between keycaps. I can feel this pretty distinctly, and it's strange hitting the lightest switches. I've only ever used one other keyboard (an MX black) where I could fee significant variation in actuation force.
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What I hate is that Topre seems more inconsistent than either rubber dome or cherry MX in terms of actuation force. I don't have a huge sample size, but I have had 2 Topre keyboards, and both had a variation in actuation force of over 10g between keycaps. I can feel this pretty distinctly, and it's strange hitting the lightest switches. I've only ever used one other keyboard (an MX black) where I could fee significant variation in actuation force.
Might this have been a variable weighted board?
In contradistinction to a uniform weighted board?
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What I hate is that Topre seems more inconsistent than either rubber dome or cherry MX in terms of actuation force. I don't have a huge sample size, but I have had 2 Topre keyboards, and both had a variation in actuation force of over 10g between keycaps. I can feel this pretty distinctly, and it's strange hitting the lightest switches. I've only ever used one other keyboard (an MX black) where I could fee significant variation in actuation force.
Might this have been a variable weighted board?
In contradistinction to a uniform weighted board?
They were FC660Cs. There are no variable weighted FC660Cs. Topre also gives a +-15g tolerance for their switches, which, combined with my experience, leads me to believe Topre switches just kind of suck when it comes to uniformity.
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What I hate is that Topre seems more inconsistent than either rubber dome or cherry MX in terms of actuation force. I don't have a huge sample size, but I have had 2 Topre keyboards, and both had a variation in actuation force of over 10g between keycaps. I can feel this pretty distinctly, and it's strange hitting the lightest switches. I've only ever used one other keyboard (an MX black) where I could fee significant variation in actuation force.
Might this have been a variable weighted board?
In contradistinction to a uniform weighted board?
They were FC660Cs. There are no variable weighted FC660Cs. Topre also gives a +-15g tolerance for their switches, which, combined with my experience, leads me to believe Topre switches just kind of suck when it comes to uniformity.
Aha!
Although quite a few people have reported suspecting that the arrow keys are lighter than the other keys on that particular board.
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Hmm, that's really interesting. I have that same board, and I've never experienced that. I gotta go check it out when I get home.
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If you are looking for a keyboard with a very smooth feel and a slightly padded feel when it bottoms out then I would recommend it. I have been using a RealForce 104UW (white, variable weighting) for the past few weeks at the office and it is a very comfortable keyboard. The key texture prevents your fingers from slipping around and the key action is very effortless and smooth. The whole thing is very solidly built and does not slip around on the desk or creak when you pick it up. The sound is quite pleasing although the sound of the space bar pinging back up sticks out because it has a higher-pitched clack than the other keys (different kind of plastic). If the silenced variant were not so much more expensive where I live I might have gone for that instead.
It's a light-feeling keyboard, which I notice particularly because I am using a Unicomp Customizer buckling spring keyboard at home. After typing on the Unicomp it takes me a little bit of time to make the transition back to the RealForce - the buckling springs have trained me in a pretty heavy-handed typing style and I tend to hit the bottom hard until I remember to back off a bit. I also commit more typos on the RealForce while I am adjusting to its lightness. I do wonder whether the 55g uniform Topre would have been an easier transition (again, it was a lot more expensive where I live). If you have not trained yourself on a stiff keyboard this may not be an issue. Once I get used to it the Topre is lovely and quick to type on.
If you have a reasonable touch typing technique and your hands are not moving around a lot when you type, the variable weighting makes sense. If your hands move around a lot and you don't want your keyboard to train you in a different technique then the uniform weighting might be preferable. I have discovered that I tend to stop and think with a finger resting on the (very light) A key, so I often see "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" on the screen. This is a bit annoying and one of the ways this keyboard encourages a more rigorous technique. (If I had the right technique my 4th finger wouldn't end up over the A key.)
Also I have discovered thanks to this variable weighting that with other keyboards I was typing slightly to my left to make room for the number pad. The RealForce doesn't really encourage this since its keys are weighted for particular fingers, so the number pad ends up sticking out to the right (as it was originally intended, but that's not how I had been using it). The mouse feels distant now, so if I were buying again I would consider the tenkeyless version.
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Topre. The last keyboard you ever need
Indeed. Topres are the reason I don't visit any of the mechanical keyboard sites anymore; I'm totally uninterested in any other type keyboard now. I spent a couple of grand buying boards from 2009-2010, and the last two I bought were my tenkeyless Realforces. I don't expect that I will ever buy any more, these are just perfect in every way.
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I took the leap and just bought one, I've had it for about a week and I don't think I could ever go back to a non Topre keyboard.
While I'm on the topic, do they plan to keep making these? Or should I stock pile them?
It is hard to ascertain whether or not will PFU make more of these HHKB. There were rumours about Realforce no longer stocking/selling those spare key cap sets which may make it hard for one to purchase key cap sets for Topre based keyboards in general. PFU HHKB may be unaffected by this issue as I have heard that they have their own source of key cap manufacturer. However if such is the case HHKB maybe sold at a much higher price if such was to happen.
On another issue are the Topre clones coming from China notably, their impact as of writing maybe small but combined with Coolermaster's instance of Topre equivalent switch, the real Topre realm may seem get violated as a result once these become mainstream. Cloning switches maybe hard but cloning the keycaps and all once the hard part is more or less sorted out is relatively easy. Already there are lots of manufacturers elsewhere making their own set of keycaps so keycap cloning issue is not that big compared to switches being cloned which was more or less just recent for Topre realm it seems. As a result this may either drive HHKB out or force HHKB to be sold at lower prices.
As a whole it depends on how PFU reacts to such instances, with Realforce not selling key caps (and maybe force Topre owners for instance to purchase HHKB spare key cap sets for their Topre board) and that there are clones that will soon be released, not to mention with sliders that will be compatible with both Cherry MX key caps as well as Topre keycaps as opposed to HHKB only compatible with Topre keycaps. It will be an interesting albeit challenging time ahead for PFU.
Thanks for that, it does make more sense now. What is Coolermaster's instance of Topre equiv?
Apparently it is called "Novatouch".
Found another video with some information everyone might be interested in, 45g weighting across the board, but Carter said they weren't ruling out adding a 30, and 55g variant with different form factors. Forward to around the 6:30 mark for info on the Novatouch.
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Is anyone aware of more CES video of CM's Novatouch TKL board? So far I've only come across the two already mentioned in this thread:
t=1m52s
t=6m41s
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If you must get topre today.. the Leopold FC is the best one out..
I think this is dead on here. For a new Topre user, I've started recommending the FC660C. The layout looks odd at first but it grows on you quick. Also, as expected from Leopold (The manufacturer of the current Realforce's), this board was built very well. It's the new kid on the block, and it's getting great reviews.
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The only one problem with Leopold FC660C is that it lacks standard sized keycaps. A Realforce would have probably been a more suitable option considering that every now and then they offer spare keycaps of various sorts and that you don't have to go digging around various keycap sets to be able to customise your own keyboard (or part thereof).
In that respect Leopold FC660C would have been similar to HHKB and possibly the same with μTron. The fact with HHKB is that you need at least two different sets of keycaps to do up most of the keycap customisation. That is only for Pro2. Pro JP lacks even more keys suitable for it unless one nominates to use blank keys in lieu of legended keycaps.
There is already a person on the IRC whom has bought Leopold FC660C and keeps on asking around for spare single keycaps for his keyboard. The same person have already compared some of the sizes with my HHKB as well as my Realforce 108KT1 spare keycap set only to find that he will need to grab a key here and there out of the Realforce sets for blanks. Not to mention the LED window ones could be potentially harder to source as spares.
Not that I mind one recommending new kids around the block, there is also Type Heaven as well which doesn't get much rave reviews yet is also a new kid around the block, even newer than FC660C.
There is also a bit of a scare with FC660C legends wearing off the keycaps or something. Such cases would unlikely happen if they were using dye-sub based legends.
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An older thread seems to indicate that there will be even fewer Topre keycaps now http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52149.0 Is there any truth to the claim that third party companies can't create moulds for Topre keys due to licensing issues?
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An older thread seems to indicate that there will be even fewer Topre keycaps now http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52149.0 Is there any truth to the claim that third party companies can't create moulds for Topre keys due to licensing issues?
So it does appear that they are going to stop production of the non factory key cap sets (ie. custom colors). They will continue to manufacturer the typical white/black for future production keyboards.
I had been asking EK when the grey sets were due to come out and they indicated this to me. However, not all hope is lost. EK is currently searching for new key cap vendors so we'll see how that goes.
Also if the MX compatible Topre stems start coming out, this would also make the issue moot as you could use MX key caps on your topre boards.
Regarding the Novatouch boards, I find it funny how much they're trying to not use the terms "capacitance touch switch" and instead are skirting around the term "electrostatic switch". Not sure if this is for marketing purposes, or to try to distance their "new" design from Topre.
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Regarding the Novatouch boards, I find it funny how much they're trying to not use the terms "capacitance touch switch" and instead are skirting around the term "electrostatic switch". Not sure if this is for marketing purposes, or to try to distance their "new" design from Topre.
Yeah that's very noticeable in videos where company reps are describing the switches. I guess there probably won't be any impartial reviews of how MX keycaps feel on those switches until later this year.
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Regarding the Novatouch boards, I find it funny how much they're trying to not use the terms "capacitance touch switch" and instead are skirting around the term "electrostatic switch". Not sure if this is for marketing purposes, or to try to distance their "new" design from Topre.
Yeah that's very noticeable in videos where company reps are describing the switches. I guess there probably won't be any impartial reviews of how MX keycaps feel on those switches until later this year.
Also, when they say T-K-L, for some reason I think it sounds kind of silly since tenkeyless takes about the same amount of time to say. Those hipster sales reps. Just wait, they'll release a CM board with a side compartment to store your turntable cartridges.
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Regarding the Novatouch boards, I find it funny how much they're trying to not use the terms "capacitance touch switch" and instead are skirting around the term "electrostatic switch". Not sure if this is for marketing purposes, or to try to distance their "new" design from Topre.
Yeah that's very noticeable in videos where company reps are describing the switches. I guess there probably won't be any impartial reviews of how MX keycaps feel on those switches until later this year.
Also, when they say T-K-L, for some reason I think it sounds kind of silly since tenkeyless takes about the same amount of time to say. Those hipster sales reps. Just wait, they'll release a CM board with a side compartment to store your turntable cartridges.
TKL almost sounds like you'd pronounce it like "teekle", or even "tickle".
I have a tickle keyboard.
:))
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TKL almost sounds like you'd pronounce it like "teekle", or even "tickle".
I have a tickle keyboard.
:))
Yep that's it :)
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TKL almost sounds like you'd pronounce it like "teekle", or even "tickle".
I have a tickle keyboard.
:))
Yep that's it :)
Dont anybody pronounce it as 'tenkeyless'
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TKL almost sounds like you'd pronounce it like "teekle", or even "tickle".
I have a tickle keyboard.
:))
Yep that's it :)
Dont anybody pronounce it as 'tenkeyless'
Tee-Kay-ELL anyone?
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What I hate is that Topre seems more inconsistent than either rubber dome or cherry MX in terms of actuation force. I don't have a huge sample size, but I have had 2 Topre keyboards, and both had a variation in actuation force of over 10g between keycaps. I can feel this pretty distinctly, and it's strange hitting the lightest switches. I've only ever used one other keyboard (an MX black) where I could fee significant variation in actuation force.
Might this have been a variable weighted board?
In contradistinction to a uniform weighted board?
They were FC660Cs. There are no variable weighted FC660Cs. Topre also gives a +-15g tolerance for their switches, which, combined with my experience, leads me to believe Topre switches just kind of suck when it comes to uniformity.
Aha!
Although quite a few people have reported suspecting that the arrow keys are lighter than the other keys on that particular board.
Yeah, that was definitely the case with the first board I had. Arrow keys were not the lightest on the board (that was the Insert key at about 40g), but they were a lot lighter than average. Oddly enough, on my current board the arrow keys don't feel much different than average. They are around 50g.
And if anyone is wondering, FC660C legends suck ass. They are just horrible. I can't believe they decided to use them, because they are worse than the legends on any $5 keyboard I have ever used.
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What I hate is that Topre seems more inconsistent than either rubber dome or cherry MX in terms of actuation force. I don't have a huge sample size, but I have had 2 Topre keyboards, and both had a variation in actuation force of over 10g between keycaps. I can feel this pretty distinctly, and it's strange hitting the lightest switches. I've only ever used one other keyboard (an MX black) where I could fee significant variation in actuation force.
Might this have been a variable weighted board?
In contradistinction to a uniform weighted board?
They were FC660Cs. There are no variable weighted FC660Cs. Topre also gives a +-15g tolerance for their switches, which, combined with my experience, leads me to believe Topre switches just kind of suck when it comes to uniformity.
Aha!
Although quite a few people have reported suspecting that the arrow keys are lighter than the other keys on that particular board.
Yeah, that was definitely the case with the first board I had. Arrow keys were not the lightest on the board (that was the Insert key at about 40g), but they were a lot lighter than average. Oddly enough, on my current board the arrow keys don't feel much different than average. They are around 50g.
And if anyone is wondering, FC660C legends suck ass. They are just horrible. I can't believe they decided to use them, because they are worse than the legends on any $5 keyboard I have ever used.
Worse in what way? Wearing off very quickly?
Many of the FC660x boards I have seen have legends that are already wearing.
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HHKB FOR LIFE.
150WPM TO BE WORTHY OF LIFE.
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HHKB FOR LIFE.
150WPM TO BE WORTHY OF LIFE.
We livin' tho.
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What I hate is that Topre seems more inconsistent than either rubber dome or cherry MX in terms of actuation force. I don't have a huge sample size, but I have had 2 Topre keyboards, and both had a variation in actuation force of over 10g between keycaps. I can feel this pretty distinctly, and it's strange hitting the lightest switches. I've only ever used one other keyboard (an MX black) where I could fee significant variation in actuation force.
Might this have been a variable weighted board?
In contradistinction to a uniform weighted board?
They were FC660Cs. There are no variable weighted FC660Cs. Topre also gives a +-15g tolerance for their switches, which, combined with my experience, leads me to believe Topre switches just kind of suck when it comes to uniformity.
Aha!
Although quite a few people have reported suspecting that the arrow keys are lighter than the other keys on that particular board.
Yeah, that was definitely the case with the first board I had. Arrow keys were not the lightest on the board (that was the Insert key at about 40g), but they were a lot lighter than average. Oddly enough, on my current board the arrow keys don't feel much different than average. They are around 50g.
And if anyone is wondering, FC660C legends suck ass. They are just horrible. I can't believe they decided to use them, because they are worse than the legends on any $5 keyboard I have ever used.
Worse in what way? Wearing off very quickly?
Many of the FC660x boards I have seen have legends that are already wearing.
It's unlikely that they're Wearing "OFF"... The filler gets stained with debris and oil..
Hopefully they'll release a blank set or something...
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Loveeeeeee the 55g feels.
HHKB too but I liek mai dedicated arrows
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TKL almost sounds like you'd pronounce it like "teekle", or even "tickle".
I have a tickle keyboard.
:))
Yep that's it :)
Dont anybody pronounce it as 'tenkeyless'
takes too long
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TKL almost sounds like you'd pronounce it like "teekle", or even "tickle".
I have a tickle keyboard.
:))
Yep that's it :)
Dont anybody pronounce it as 'tenkeyless'
takes too long
tenkeyless is shorter than that post of yours. :P
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I really want a HHKB now.
1. for the feels
2. for dat title
Only thing stopping me is the 45g weighting. Although, I've read you can gut a RF 55g and replace the cups, butttttttttt don't really wanna shell out another $250 to do that.
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I really want a HHKB now.
1. for the feels
2. for dat title
Only thing stopping me is the 45g weighting. Although, I've read you can gut a RF 55g and replace the cups, butttttttttt don't really wanna shell out another $250 to do that.
Hey, if it was easy....everybody would do it :P
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Thanks for all the replies and insight. I have a feeling I'm taking the plunge soon.
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Hey, if it was easy....everybody would do it :P
It's not that it's hard to do. But it's hard to let go of that kind of cash for such a simple matter. But I'm sure every single HHKB owner on this site will say it's worth every penny. :blank: :blank: :blank: :blank: :blank:
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Hey, if it was easy....everybody would do it :P
It's not that it's hard to do. But it's hard to let go of that kind of cash for such a simple matter. But I'm sure every single HHKB owner on this site will say it's worth every penny. :blank: :blank: :blank: :blank: :blank:
meh it was a fun project and the HHKB is nice and all but if I had a time machine......I'd never spend the money I've spent on it hahaha
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meh it was a fun project and the HHKB is nice and all but if I had a time machine......I'd never spend the money I've spent on it hahaha
Really? Damn. Can I buy your 55g HHKB? ^-^
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meh it was a fun project and the HHKB is nice and all but if I had a time machine......I'd never spend the money I've spent on it hahaha
Really? Damn. Can I buy your 55g HHKB? ^-^
Well I've considered selling it but I doubt I could even come close to breaking even and I wouldn't have anywhere to put my novelty topre caps :D
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Really? Damn. Can I buy your 55g HHKB? ^-^
Well I've considered selling it but I doubt I could even come close to breaking even and I wouldn't have anywhere to put my novelty topre caps :D
Is ok Spam. Is ok. Btw was there a guide or video to replacing Topre cups? I'm gonna do this at some point when I'm rich.
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Really? Damn. Can I buy your 55g HHKB? ^-^
Well I've considered selling it but I doubt I could even come close to breaking even and I wouldn't have anywhere to put my novelty topre caps :D
Is ok Spam. Is ok. Btw was there a guide or video to replacing Topre cups? I'm gonna do this at some point when I'm rich.
There are still a few photos here
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40185.0
this isn't a HHKB but still helpful
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45762.0
there are also some guides on reddit
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Really? Damn. Can I buy your 55g HHKB? ^-^
Well I've considered selling it but I doubt I could even come close to breaking even and I wouldn't have anywhere to put my novelty topre caps :D
Is ok Spam. Is ok. Btw was there a guide or video to replacing Topre cups? I'm gonna do this at some point when I'm rich.
There are still a few photos here
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40185.0
this isn't a HHKB but still helpful
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45762.0
there are also some guides on reddit
Yea. Just from the posts themselves, I can tell this requires some serious modding ability. I'm too scared. Can you do it for me? :p
Also, I never got why some pictures never load for me. They just stay white.
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Really? Damn. Can I buy your 55g HHKB? ^-^
Well I've considered selling it but I doubt I could even come close to breaking even and I wouldn't have anywhere to put my novelty topre caps :D
Is ok Spam. Is ok. Btw was there a guide or video to replacing Topre cups? I'm gonna do this at some point when I'm rich.
There are still a few photos here
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40185.0
this isn't a HHKB but still helpful
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45762.0
there are also some guides on reddit
Yea. Just from the posts themselves, I can tell this requires some serious modding ability. I'm too scared. Can you do it for me? :p
Also, I never got why some pictures never load for me. They just stay white.
Some photos don't load because of bandwidth issues etc. Modding topre really isn't that hard at all haha.
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Some photos don't load because of bandwidth issues etc. Modding topre really isn't that hard at all haha.
Ah I see....
Spam, you don't understand. I'm terribly terrified of screwing up my beloved $300 keyboard. One mistake and I have to find my samurai sword to commit seppuku.
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Some photos don't load because of bandwidth issues etc. Modding topre really isn't that hard at all haha.
Ah I see....
Spam, you don't understand. I'm terribly terrified of screwing up my beloved $300 keyboard. One mistake and I have to find my samurai sword to commit seppuku.
if you think thats bad don't even ask me what I did with brand new laptops that cost much more haha.
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Some photos don't load because of bandwidth issues etc. Modding topre really isn't that hard at all haha.
Ah I see....
Spam, you don't understand. I'm terribly terrified of screwing up my beloved $300 keyboard. One mistake and I have to find my samurai sword to commit seppuku.
if you think thats bad don't even ask me what I did with brand new laptops that cost much more haha.
I don't want to make you recall any bad memories, but now I'm curious. ;)
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Some photos don't load because of bandwidth issues etc. Modding topre really isn't that hard at all haha.
Ah I see....
Spam, you don't understand. I'm terribly terrified of screwing up my beloved $300 keyboard. One mistake and I have to find my samurai sword to commit seppuku.
if you think thats bad don't even ask me what I did with brand new laptops that cost much more haha.
I don't want to make you recall any bad memories, but now I'm curious. ;)
I just like to take things apart before I ever use them ;)
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Some photos don't load because of bandwidth issues etc. Modding topre really isn't that hard at all haha.
Ah I see....
Spam, you don't understand. I'm terribly terrified of screwing up my beloved $300 keyboard. One mistake and I have to find my samurai sword to commit seppuku.
if you think thats bad don't even ask me what I did with brand new laptops that cost much more haha.
I don't want to make you recall any bad memories, but now I'm curious. ;)
I just like to take things apart before I ever use them ;)
Much worry. Very regret. Wow.
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I just bought my 5th Realforce Topre. 'Nuff said.
No, wait...there's more to say;
:)
Fabulous build quality you can feel in each keystroke. I own or have owned Cherry MX blues and browns, Unicomp, and even the venerable IBM M (which I bought new in box)....nothing quite compares to the finery at the fingertips than this.
Quiet version available. Lets me have a Topre at work where, in our open environment, I can key away with stealth and quietude without sacrificing that Topre sensation.
Resellability. So easy to sell and buy new again, or change colours, or just change up to maybe a different key weighting. Even rare on eBay so it's always a sellers market.
Different key weightings available.
Solid platform. This thing sits on the desktop so solid, it sends that Topre sound right into the desktop and immerses the typist in that thok-sound only Topres give.
Smooth. Keys seem to slide down unlike any other keyboard, like chalk dipped in warm honey.
Presentation. I dislike the skimpy minimalism of the HHKB's whereas the Realforce board looks as solidly placed as it feels.
Universal. The best for typing long typing projects as well as at work and even gaming. One board fits all purposes.
:(
Dark keys. For me this is a hassle only when trying to find the number keys in dim light.
Price. Not sayin' they're not worth it, but still.
No black key replacements. More difficult to find and replace the same dark keys than the Cherry keys.
Can't go back. Once you get used to this, nothing else is acceptable...and typing on standard rubber domes is almost sickening.
CONCLUSION
After all my Realforce keyboarding tryouts including the variable weighted, 45g weighted, and silenced version, I've wound up with a fave in the black 55g tenkeyless version. This way the keys stay with my fingertips and returns the best sound and feel.
Now 'nuff said...unless you want to check out a few of my keyboard unboxings and typing uploads on Youtube, Desktop2011.
Keylamity.
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The only one problem with Leopold FC660C is that it lacks standard sized keycaps. A Realforce would have probably been a more suitable option considering that every now and then they offer spare keycaps of various sorts and that you don't have to go digging around various keycap sets to be able to customise your own keyboard (or part thereof).
In that respect Leopold FC660C would have been similar to HHKB and possibly the same with μTron. The fact with HHKB is that you need at least two different sets of keycaps to do up most of the keycap customisation. That is only for Pro2. Pro JP lacks even more keys suitable for it unless one nominates to use blank keys in lieu of legended keycaps.
There is already a person on the IRC whom has bought Leopold FC660C and keeps on asking around for spare single keycaps for his keyboard. The same person have already compared some of the sizes with my HHKB as well as my Realforce 108KT1 spare keycap set only to find that he will need to grab a key here and there out of the Realforce sets for blanks. Not to mention the LED window ones could be potentially harder to source as spares.
Not that I mind one recommending new kids around the block, there is also Type Heaven as well which doesn't get much rave reviews yet is also a new kid around the block, even newer than FC660C.
There is also a bit of a scare with FC660C legends wearing off the keycaps or something. Such cases would unlikely happen if they were using dye-sub based legends.
Would you recommend the Type Heaven over the Novatouch if the Nova goes for a MSRP?(I'm still waiting for the Nova)
My current choices are between the RF 87 55g and the Nova. Obviously the RF costs substantially more than the Nova, but I suppose the PBT keycaps and build quality(?) would be better on the latter.
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The only one problem with Leopold FC660C is that it lacks standard sized keycaps. A Realforce would have probably been a more suitable option considering that every now and then they offer spare keycaps of various sorts and that you don't have to go digging around various keycap sets to be able to customise your own keyboard (or part thereof).
In that respect Leopold FC660C would have been similar to HHKB and possibly the same with μTron. The fact with HHKB is that you need at least two different sets of keycaps to do up most of the keycap customisation. That is only for Pro2. Pro JP lacks even more keys suitable for it unless one nominates to use blank keys in lieu of legended keycaps.
There is already a person on the IRC whom has bought Leopold FC660C and keeps on asking around for spare single keycaps for his keyboard. The same person have already compared some of the sizes with my HHKB as well as my Realforce 108KT1 spare keycap set only to find that he will need to grab a key here and there out of the Realforce sets for blanks. Not to mention the LED window ones could be potentially harder to source as spares.
Not that I mind one recommending new kids around the block, there is also Type Heaven as well which doesn't get much rave reviews yet is also a new kid around the block, even newer than FC660C.
There is also a bit of a scare with FC660C legends wearing off the keycaps or something. Such cases would unlikely happen if they were using dye-sub based legends.
It would be nice if we had a some sort of a chart or spreadsheet for all the Topre keycaps from the FC660C, HHKB, RF 87U, etc., comparing their layouts to see which keycaps fit. Because of Topre replacement caps slowly becoming more rare, us Topre owners (especially for the Leo) are relying more heavily on caps from the other Topre boards. I don't know, maybe it's already common knowledge on this forum but I'm still a little noobish with all the different types and sizes of replacements caps.
Unfortunately, when I bought my Leo FC660C, the blank version wasn't available so now I'm stuck with the fading legends and I find myself debating whether I should get a full set of HHKB blanks or not.
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I've owned 45-gram and 55-gram Topre switches on a Realforce 87U keyboards. My preference is
Topre 55-gram switches. I've sold the 45-gram keyboards; but I really like the 55-gram KB. There's
nothing to dislike about the 87Us; it's a matter of choosing which Topre switch suits you. If I had to
choose one keyboard, it would be my 87U/55-gram; I use it about 95% of the time.
I recently thought I wanted to move away from Topre/Realforce and look for something different.
After trying a couple other KBs and trying my 'In reserve' keyboards, I've returned to my 87U/55g,
it's the best keyboard and key switch for me.
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I'm totally going to cheat and copy/paste something I just wrote in another thread:
I went from my first board (razer BWU) with blues to an HHKB. I feel in love with the aesthetics of it from the moment I set my eyes on it. I probably should have done a lot more research, but damn I just couldn't stop myself. For me, it wasn't disappointing because I could tell the build quality was just so much better than the razer, and I was personally pretty happy with the switches. But, as I am wont to do, I eventually decided that I needed to delve further into the world of mechanical keyboards, and for me that meant going back to the Cherry MX switch. My next board would be a KMAC mini with 55g blacks, which I happen to be typing with right this minute. And I love it. But I found myself coming back to the HHKB as well. Then I got a QFR stealth in order to try Greens, and again I liked it (although it isn't as solid as I would have liked) but I kept coming back to the HHKB. A Model M was next in line, and I didn't like it all that much, and now two duckys. One to try blues again because maybe it was just the POS board that made me not like them that much, and one to try whites. And again it was back to the HHKB (and I use my KMAC a lot as well). Basically for a lot of us there is no ultimate switch, and we sure as hell aren't going to be able to find it without a lot of money and time spent. I would say that people that have found the switch for them without a whole lot of searching are the exception to the rule. I hope you liked Topre, but even if you didn't I hope you think of it as a learning experience, and that it will help guide you to a board you really truly feel "oneness" with.
TL:DR Different strokes for different folks, and it's about the journey as much as the destination.
And to add to that I would say that the HHKB is one hell of a great board, but if you're looking for something that's both bigger and has a little more heft I would go with a Realforce. I thought the Realforce was hideous in pictures, but in person it's actually quite nice looking. That was before I put it in an aluminum case, though. Now it's gorgeous :))
I don't have any experience with the typeheaven or the F660c (I think that's the model number), but for what it's worth I really like the look and layout of the F660c. I never had any qualms getting used to the layout of the HHKB, especially the arrows. I can't imagine having function-layer arrows anywhere else, really. I've heard that the typeheaven's quality may not be quite as good, but if it's cheaper it may be a good entry point into Topre. The nice thing about Topre, though, is that you can always sell them here if you don't like them for pretty close to what you paid for it.