geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: IKSLM on Wed, 15 January 2014, 03:00:54
-
Which keyboards (besides topre) have the "rubber cup on PCB" mechanics? So there is no membrane but rather a single rubber cup for each key?
-
I think every rubber dome board uses the 'rubber cup on PCB mechanics'
-
I think some older keyboards may feature something like that.
I think APC Clicker keyboards probably had it at one stage but they are probably exceptionally hard to find as Tai-Hao never "versions" their keyboards properly therefore it is hard to track down the keyboard with such feature let alone to have proper documentation on it (from the community). APC Clicker uses Alps sort of slider mind you, I have APC Clicker here but the base is still membrane.(Scratch that.. APC Clicker would have Alps lookalike switches, the only difference would be either PCB or membrane based but it is still Alps and most likely not Alps slider over rubber dome on top of PCB).
There are possibly a few noted on the deskthority wiki but you may have lots of fun combing through them as not all of them necessarily have rubber cups over PCB. Here is one for instance (though you can see they had it in one variant):
http://deskthority.net/wiki/BTC_5100 (http://deskthority.net/wiki/BTC_5100)
I found that one by looking under this category: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:Keyboards_with_rubber_domes (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:Keyboards_with_rubber_domes)
Do take note that the deskthority wiki is by no means complete/exhaustive, at least this may give you some insights if you are curious.
-
I think every rubber dome board uses the 'rubber cup on PCB mechanics'
Well, don't some have the "rubber dome/cup over membrane"?
-
...
I found that one by looking under this category: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:Keyboards_with_rubber_domes (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:Keyboards_with_rubber_domes)
Thanks for this, will check it out!
-
I already have one, and the cups look like this (the same model):
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2M1gxNjAw/z/-x0AAOxyhs5SND6f/$T2eC16dHJGIFFoVWjJFTBSND6fIS+Q~~60_12.JPG)
-
It is hard to ascertain if yours is really BTC over rubber dome. I would open the keyboard from the back to double check if it is actually PCB mount with discrete rubber cups.
If it is, maybe you can contribute something to the wiki. :D
I have been combing lightly through the deskthority wiki and found any other keyboards that may feature the same thing (discrete rubber cups over PCB). Most of the ones noted on the wiki does not specify if they are rubber cups over PCB or rubber cups over membrane. Some don't have any references which makes searching for them relatively hard.
I guess it would help if more people do find them and document them (in the very least). I am personally already doing my bid on APC Clicker boards and may focus on my other boards as I go along.
Also it seems like that keyboard could probably do with some cleaning. :p Same goes with my APC Clicker (the way it was before).
-
I disassembled mine (cleaning), and yes there is a nice PCB under the black plastics with integrated AT/XT switch.
-
i ever see razer anansi rubber dome with PCB CMIIW :)
-
I have been combing lightly through the deskthority wiki and found any other keyboards that may feature the same thing (discrete rubber cups over PCB). Most of the ones noted on the wiki does not specify if they are rubber cups over PCB or rubber cups over membrane. Some don't have any references which makes searching for them relatively hard.
Conductive dome over PCB is fairly uncommon, although BTC used it a lot; you can assume rubber dome will be over membrane generally. Let me know if there are any on the wiki that you need any help with — I might be able to tell you. BTW, you don't have to have discrete domes over PCB — my BTC keyboard has most domes in a single sheet.
-
I have been combing lightly through the deskthority wiki and found any other keyboards that may feature the same thing (discrete rubber cups over PCB). Most of the ones noted on the wiki does not specify if they are rubber cups over PCB or rubber cups over membrane. Some don't have any references which makes searching for them relatively hard.
Conductive dome over PCB is fairly uncommon, although BTC used it a lot; you can assume rubber dome will be over membrane generally. Let me know if there are any on the wiki that you need any help with — I might be able to tell you. BTW, you don't have to have discrete domes over PCB — my BTC keyboard has most domes in a single sheet.
I just noticed my typo haha. "I have been combing lightly through the deskthority wiki and haven't found any other keyboards that may feature the same thing" was what I was meant to say.
Yeah rubber domes over membrane, a sign of not a terribly good keyboard. In fact the more I think of anything on membrane I cannot imagine the feeling can be all that great. Then again they are abundant so I cannot say much otherwise. *stares at his APC membrane and is reminded of inconsistent feel even though lube has been applied*. Sometimes it makes me wonder if the PCB really makes that nice firm and somewhat a little more consistent feeling instead of membrane sheets. APC Clicker is inconsistent but it is Alps simplified clone over membrane. My HHKB on the other hand is capacitive rubber domes over PCB and the feels seems to be more consistent. I also have Northgate Omnikey 101 (which hopefully I will get it repaired) that I bet the feel would be consistent even though it is Alps complicated over PCB. Somehow something tells me that membrane sheets may give that contributing feel of being cheap over time, or maybe is just cheap in general.
Thanks for the offer on help with the wiki, I was sort of looking for you over the Christmas/New Year periods but it seemed you have went missing (probably holiday or something). This is going a bit off-topic but I think you have noticed that I added some entries into APC membrane and APC Clicker keyboards on Deskthority wiki. Lots of shameless photo snatching (which I will need to chase up credentials for eventually). I started tackling on the APC Clicker mess by splitting them into various types, not sure what they officially are and from my point of view is that APC Clickers are very hard to identify in general. Not sure if there are four types of APC Clickers or only three, one source I think from Sandy55 notes that Sandy55 has yet another variant that has not been documented. Although not a completely different design or something like that for the switches, just the appearance is different. Something to do with having the keyboard that looks like an older one but the types of switches (maybe instead of metal leaf springs it has copper leaf springs) which was not found on the same keyboard off that same website but off another.
In any case for me I will need to get back into adding final bits and pieces to the APC Clicker/membrane stuff. I don't think I have added anything of my type, and besides the various types are not sorted by chronological order so that will be another bit of a headache in itself. This was something that I noticed when I started putting up photos to the wiki. Something tells me that the keyboard I have predates the ones with copper leaf springs (as it doesn't have windows keys).
Getting back on the topic, I do not have BTC keyboard but this thread (after reading what the OP wanted) makes me sort of curiously wonder what it would feel like to type on those and then comparing that feel with that on the Topre. I only have a Topre board here and I sort of wonder if other rubber domes over PCB (or even capacitive rubber domes over PCB) would feel more or less the same as on a Topre board. BTC keyboard maybe older so maybe the rubber domes may have stiffened a bit but then again maybe lube might help. :))
-
Like many things it depends on what you count:
Keyboards including rubber cups and fullsize PCBS:
Ones people know:
topre
BTC / other contact based ones
less wellknown ones:
that one SMK with NKRO diodes that HaaTa has (https://plus.google.com/photos/113845661925823397356/albums/5804979760397178817)
Alphameric http://imgur.com/a/mg86H http://imgur.com/a/1raE6
-
One of those Alphameric ones is either a copy of Key Tronic, or vice versa.
Pressure (three-layer) membranes have a total travel of around 0.7 mm (each sheet is the same thickness as a typical sheet of paper) and I've measured one keyboard as requiring somewhere in the region of 19.5 gf to actuate the membrane. The membrane does have a feel, but it's fairly subtle. (This is still on my wiki to-do list.)
-
Well this 'discrete rubber cup over PCB' (nonconductive cup, the cup is used only for keycap movement, the plunger takes care of the contact on the pcb) feels very similar to the topre. Not too mushy, good tactility and then SMOOTH linear movement.
Having doubleshots also helps.