geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: kskwerl on Sat, 18 January 2014, 15:56:33
-
I have the HHKB Pro 2 and love it but I never owned the Lite 2, what mad it the suck?
-
It's a rubber dome, not a topre.
You should use the search function or Simple Questions, Simple Answers (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0) for this kind of thing in the future :)
-
it's rubberdome, not topre.
-
it's rubberdome, not topre.
LOL! thats silly /topic
-
It's rubber cup, not cup rubber, no oneness possiblu!
-
It's pretty good RD though IMHO (I've tried it once at a conference), but ridiculously overpriced.
-
It was really stiff....
-
because it doesn't cost 250 dollars, duh.
-
It was really stiff....
Weird, the two I tried weren't stiff at all.
-
maybe you're not pretty enough dav
-
Lite version does have dedicated arrow keys.
-
Because it isn't "Professional". :p
-
because it doesn't cost 250 dollars, duh.
the only true thing posted in this thread
-
I have HHKB Lite 2. It's 2KRO. Not bad, not special.
-
because it doesn't cost 250 dollars, duh.
the only true thing posted in this thread
well the major difference is that the Topre has 2mm actuation..
the hhkb lite requires bottom out for actuation...
But overall.. they are equivalent in terms of "feel".. since both are rubber dome boards..
-
because it doesn't cost 250 dollars, duh.
printed only too amirite
-
I've been so enlightened
-
deleted double post
-
because it doesn't cost 250 dollars, duh.
the only true thing posted in this thread
well the major difference is that the Topre has 2mm actuation..
the hhkb lite requires bottom out for actuation...
Technically and personally, I vote for this part is the best answer on this thread :thumb:
-
http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/leaflet/keyspec.html (http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/leaflet/keyspec.html) - Japanese only
Rubber dome over membrane requires 55g for actuation, Conductive "electrostatic capacitive" rubber dome over PCB require 45g for actuation.
(edit: Thanks for pointing it out laffindude)
Plus the feeling on typing something over membrane is not as solid sort of feel as over PCB. I know that for a fact because I have two Alps keyboards (and both are very old), one that is on PCB and the other on membrane - the membrane has inconsistent feel to it.
The inconsistent feel that membrane offers on top of rubber dome that may stiffen over time is more or less a clear explanation as to why a typical rubber dome over membrane keyboard you buy from virtually anywhere feels like as if it has stiffened up after a fair few years worth of usage. That is until you start lubing it up to extend its useful life.
On the same website from PFU but somewhere I read that the Lite2 actuations are rated around 10 million key presses minimum versus the Professional series which are rated at 30 million key presses minimum.
Last but not least, the HHKB Lite2 is not of the same layout that Dr. Wada inspired as he was the co-developer of the HHKB (namely in designing of the keyboard). This more or less means that Lite2 would be in more or less the same shoes as Pro JP and makes Pro2. Pro, Lite the only ones that were based off Dr. Wada's ideals.
There are other differences with Lite2 over Pro2 one is the fact that Lite2 does not come with detachable USB cable, Pro2 does. Lite2 has USB1.1 ports (according to PFU website), Pro2 has USB2.0 ports with USB1.1 compatibility.
-
What do you mean by conductive rubber dome over PCB? HHKB Pro is electrostatic capacitive.
-
What do you mean by conductive rubber dome over PCB? HHKB Pro is electrostatic capacitive.
Sorry and thanks. There is probably no easy ways to describe the true functionality of the conical spring as the rubber domes/cups are made of (obviously) rubber. Rubbers are generally insulators and are not conductors of electricity. Therefore the conical spring provides the "contact" when actuation is detected.
Simply put for me putting a conical spring over rubber dome/cup would technically make an usually non conductive rubber dome to be able to sense the actuations when pressed. Though technically that is also wrong in its own right as conductive rubbers would cause "chattering" and hence that would not work. Possibly the rubber dome/cup is to really isolate each contacts under each individual key thus letting the conical spring do the actual work of detecting actuations.
-
First Lite2 has arrow keys, meh. I don't call it HHKB :p
I tried USB Lite2 in a shop the other day and it was not so bad, just mediocre, while my old PS/2 Lite2 is really nightmare. Lastly I have to say I could live with Lite(not Lite2) for one year withouth no provelem before I got Pro(yes, not Pro2 again).
-
First Lite2 has arrow keys, meh. I don't call it HHKB :p
So HHKB JP isn't HHKB?
-
I can't read :D
-
First Lite2 has arrow keys, meh. I don't call it HHKB :p
So HHKB JP isn't HHKB?
Yep. And Pro2 have USB hub, ridiculous!
Pro is the only legitimate successor...
Oh, I shouldn't have confessed my secret religion. I must be druken today.
-
If one wants to follow the true HHKB...
Apparently it has been said that PFU is milking the HHKB brand name, first with Lite2 then with Pro2 (with USB hub) and with Pro JP (which is basically HHKB Pro with JIS layout). The original Pro has no USB hub which was what Dr. Wada proposed. The whole switch to USB was also not what Dr. Wada mentioned.
If one wants to go further splitting hairs, Dr. Wada proposed on the minimal layout whilst PFU decided on the key switch. Thereby it nullifies that PFU was really completely following what Dr. Wada originally inspired. The Topre vs rubber dome over membrane debate would also be rather moot because neither of which were specifically inspired by Dr. Wada's design. The logo that Dr. Wada used in his proposal has been long changed afterwards so that is also something that Dr. Wada did not inspire. Last but not least, according to Wikipedia, the very first HHKB that came out was what Dr. Wada got - which would have been classed as a membrane keyboard instead of capacitive keyboard.
The same could be said about HHKB Pro HG which shows PFU was just milking the brand along with limited edition keycaps that comes with HHKB bought on certain commemorative events.
The funny irony lies in the elitism within the community. People go mocking HHKB Pro JP is not "true" HHKB, people go mocking HHKB Lite/Lite2 as "HHKB Pro wannabes" yadda yadda yadda. All I can say is let the hate war begin now that the old documents about the real HHKB has been revealed on deskthority wiki. I am here typing away on my newly received Cherry G80-5000.