geekhack

geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:08:41

Title: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:08:41
The Online scamming seems endless, so I made this post in hopes that people will apply the necessary precautions to online trading.

Method:

Instead of agreeing to a trade by messaging,

Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.

DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge


This is quite secure and safe, because now BOTH parties are BUYERS.. and both parties will receive buyers protection from PAYPAL.



Example:

You want to trade 

Both users must agree to the $(worth) of their respective items to be sent.

User 1 Keyboard 1 worth ($50) 

User 2 Keyboard 2 worth ($100)


Instead of trading, where User 1 paypals User 2 ($50) ontop of shipping his Keyboard 1.

User 1 will simply sell User 2 his keyboard for $50 via Palpal invoice

User 2 will simply sell User 1 his keyboard for $100 via Palpal invoice

Both Users will send packages with "tracking" service. when payment is received

They do not have to send packages at the same time.. whenever payment is received by one user, that user can ship.

DONE... 

So there is no trade... it's a double sell

This method will work even if ONE of the person has zero liquidity (cash) to start.  The liquid person (one with cash) can initiate the trade.


If BOTH parties are illiquid, then... they must go borrow money via collateral.. for example...

For small items, go to a family and friend, and offer him collateral (your TV) for you to borrow @ probably 0% interest the $ amount you need to start the trade...

Once the trade is complete, simply give him the money back, and get back your TV..
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: phoenix1234 on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:12:23
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

It sounds promising!
We learn new things everyday
Thanks
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:12:42
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:13:23
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:15:59
as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

The problem is lack of a Clack being shipped, not lack of receipts. Clacks: the root of all drama.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:18:27
as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

The problem is lack of a Clack being shipped, not lack of receipts. Clacks: the root of all drama.

carpe.. quit trollin'   This is serious...(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion_custom/th_serio.gif)
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:23:38
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:32:44
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say dang-it.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..


With paypal there is at least also the verified account lookup.. you can see if the opposite has some credibility..
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:34:56
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:37:32
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:39:42
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :P
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: Blusey on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:40:58
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Thing is if I had more posts here and had been a GHer longer I'd offer to as I live 30 seconds from a post office, plus I have a fairly decent reputation coming from professional gaming. I don't mean like that "ask a pro gamer thread" either. I've managed pro LoL players who have gotten in to LCS and EU Challenger teams, been in decent orgs and earned my share. Always happy to help people out here if they are itnerested as I hate seeing people get screwed over etc. It's a ****ty thing to happen.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:42:22
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :P

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:43:50
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :P

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:49:12
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :P

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..

Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:52:55
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: phoenix1234 on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:54:51
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:54:55
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

if we did transaction through paypal... paypal purchased a large insurance plan to cover a certain percentage of the deals going sour..


Ultimately all the defaulting is packaged into securities and sold by the US government.. so morally, insurance is not totally morally right..

But the point is... at least YOU get ur trades in at lower risk.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:59:31
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.

But how can someone be invoiced for clacks? Paypal only deals in dollars and cents :(
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: eth0s on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:00:17
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

if we did transaction through paypal... paypal purchased a large insurance plan to cover a certain percentage of the deals going sour..


Ultimately all the defaulting is packaged into securities and sold by the US government.. so morally, insurance is not totally morally right..

But the point is... at least YOU get ur trades in at lower risk.

wut?  How is insurance immoral?
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:02:27
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.

But how can someone be invoiced for clacks? Paypal only deals in dollars and cents :(

He invoice you for $xxx for the clack...  you pay... you don't receive clack... paypal starts investigation..

Investigation fails, both party claims fault...  paypal goes to their insurance guy, says.. hey I messed up..  the insurance guys say.. yes you did... here's the money that I BET YOU you wouldn't have lost...

Thanks... says paypal..

The insurance rubs paypal on the head.. and paypal promptly hands you the money.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:03:23
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.

But how can someone be invoiced for clacks? Paypal only deals in dollars and cents :(

He invoice you for $xxx for the clack...  you pay... you don't receive clack... paypal starts investigation..

Investigation fails, both party claims fault...  paypal goes to their insurance guy, says.. hey I messed up..  the insurance guys say.. yes you did... here's the money that I BET YOU you wouldn't have lost...

Thanks... says paypal..

The insurance rubs paypal on the head.. and paypal promptly hands you the money.

But normally when a problem happens and a claim is filed only the buyer or the seller get there money back...not both....

But actually that sounds like an even better way to scam.

You send me $200 and an ergodox for my clacks and I'll send you my clacks and $200 but you ship and send first. I get money and ergodox...you get NOTHING  :blank:
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:06:12
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

if we did transaction through paypal... paypal purchased a large insurance plan to cover a certain percentage of the deals going sour..


Ultimately all the defaulting is packaged into securities and sold by the US government.. so morally, insurance is not totally morally right..

But the point is... at least YOU get ur trades in at lower risk.

wut?  How is insurance immoral?

Insurance is ultimately a betting pool.. it is a huge place to get money "lost in transaction" because of the existence of the complex derivative market..

Some where, some how.. all the movement is sponsored ultimately by a Debt based economy.. because the debt is never paid back and always increasing, that means the cost is shouldered by people outside of this nation...

So.. if you track it down the line.. it's not all accounted for, because someone some where will be holding securities at the time of their death.. and those numbers will simply go p00f if it is not recovered..

The purpose of the economy is generating debt faster than the p00f... to help the flow.. but you can rest assure that in the end.. not everyone got paid before their demise.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:07:37
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.

But how can someone be invoiced for clacks? Paypal only deals in dollars and cents :(

He invoice you for $xxx for the clack...  you pay... you don't receive clack... paypal starts investigation..

Investigation fails, both party claims fault...  paypal goes to their insurance guy, says.. hey I messed up..  the insurance guys say.. yes you did... here's the money that I BET YOU you wouldn't have lost...

Thanks... says paypal..

The insurance rubs paypal on the head.. and paypal promptly hands you the money.

But normally when a problem happens and a claim is filed only the buyer or the seller get there money back...not both....

But actually that sounds like an even better way to scam.

You send me $200 and an ergodox for my clacks and I'll send you my clacks and $200 but you ship and send first. I get money and ergodox...you get NOTHING  :blank:

Don't release the item until you've been paid..

Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:08:08
But normally when a problem happens and a claim is filed only the buyer or the seller get there money back...not both....

But actually that sounds like an even better way to scam.

You send me $200 and an ergodox for my clacks and I'll send you my clacks and $200 but you ship and send first. I get money and ergodox...you get NOTHING  :blank:

But he wouldn't ship the ergodox until he received your $200, right?
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:09:57
But normally when a problem happens and a claim is filed only the buyer or the seller get there money back...not both....

But actually that sounds like an even better way to scam.

You send me $200 and an ergodox for my clacks and I'll send you my clacks and $200 but you ship and send first. I get money and ergodox...you get NOTHING  :blank:

But he wouldn't ship the ergodox until he received your $200, right?

Depends on how good of a talker someone is or how gullible someone is...you know I'll send you the $200 when I get home but I really want that ergodox can you please ship it now and I promise to send you the money, but then....I got stuck at airport in snow storm so it will be a few more days but please ship NOW.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: phoenix1234 on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:12:37
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.

But how can someone be invoiced for clacks? Paypal only deals in dollars and cents :(
Here is the case I understand:
- A wants to trade a clack C1 (20$) with a clack C2 (25$) - shipped CONUS
- B want to trade a clack C2 (25$) with a clack C1 (20$) - shipped CONUS
- A sents a Paypal invoice to B with 20$ value
- B sents a Paypal invoice to A with 25$ value (+5$ difference)
- When A receives the payment from B, A ships it with tracking
- When B receives the payment from A, B ships it with tracking
-> This trade is no longer a single trade, it becomes a 2-way transaction, there are 2 locks on both sides. If anyone does not receive the package => case disputed => Paypal will be involved => at least the one who does not receive the package has something to prove => there is a possibility to have refund (x% - not 100%). However, what jdcarpe raised (Scammers gonna Scam) is also legit because A or B could use charge back unfortunately  :(.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:13:32
But normally when a problem happens and a claim is filed only the buyer or the seller get there money back...not both....

But actually that sounds like an even better way to scam.

You send me $200 and an ergodox for my clacks and I'll send you my clacks and $200 but you ship and send first. I get money and ergodox...you get NOTHING  :blank:

But he wouldn't ship the ergodox until he received your $200, right?

Depends on how good of a talker someone is or how gullible someone is...you know I'll send you the $200 when I get home but I really want that ergodox can you please ship it now and I promise to send you the money, but then....I got stuck at airport in snow storm so it will be a few more days but please ship NOW.

Ok, that is why we're going with the rule... PAY FIRST... then release...

Even if the opposite person sends Girl-boob photos... DO NOT release item, until you've been paid...
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:15:10
But normally when a problem happens and a claim is filed only the buyer or the seller get there money back...not both....

But actually that sounds like an even better way to scam.

You send me $200 and an ergodox for my clacks and I'll send you my clacks and $200 but you ship and send first. I get money and ergodox...you get NOTHING  :blank:

But he wouldn't ship the ergodox until he received your $200, right?

Depends on how good of a talker someone is or how gullible someone is...you know I'll send you the $200 when I get home but I really want that ergodox can you please ship it now and I promise to send you the money, but then....I got stuck at airport in snow storm so it will be a few more days but please ship NOW.

Ok, that is why we're going with the rule... PAY FIRST... then release...

Even if the opposite person sends Girl-boob photos... DO NOT release item, until you've been paid...

So that's what all this business is when people ask for pics via PM....now I get it.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:15:26
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.

But how can someone be invoiced for clacks? Paypal only deals in dollars and cents :(
Here is the case I understand:
- A wants to trade a clack C1 (20$) with a clack C2 (25$) - shipped CONUS
- B want to trade a clack C2 (25$) with a clack C1 (20$) - shipped CONUS
- A sents a Paypal invoice to B with 20$ value
- B sents a Paypal invoice to A with 25$ value (+5$ difference)
- When A receives the payment from B, A ships it with tracking
- When B receives the payment from A, B ships it with tracking
-> This trade is no longer a single trade, it becomes a 2-way transaction, there are 2 locks on both sides. If anyone does not receive the package => case disputed => Paypal will be involved => at least the one who does not receive the package has something to prove => there is a possibility to have refund (x% - not 100%). However, what jdcarpe raised (Scammers gonna Scam) is also legit because A or B could use charge back unfortunately  :(.


You got it...

and it's pretty close to 100%.. because BOTH of you are buyers..

You do not invoice additional Money (difference)..  you agree upon exactly what each item is worth, and invoice that amount..

There is no "money on top"
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:19:15
TP....got your PM....I will trade with you anytime... :o
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:19:58
TP....got your PM....I will trade with you anytime... :o

(http://www.emotasia.com/wp-content/uploads/totally-naughty-panda-emoticon-12.gif)
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: eth0s on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:38:35
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

if we did transaction through paypal... paypal purchased a large insurance plan to cover a certain percentage of the deals going sour..


Ultimately all the defaulting is packaged into securities and sold by the US government.. so morally, insurance is not totally morally right..

But the point is... at least YOU get ur trades in at lower risk.

wut?  How is insurance immoral?

Insurance is ultimately a betting pool.. it is a huge place to get money "lost in transaction" because of the existence of the complex derivative market..

Some where, some how.. all the movement is sponsored ultimately by a Debt based economy.. because the debt is never paid back and always increasing, that means the cost is shouldered by people outside of this nation...

So.. if you track it down the line.. it's not all accounted for, because someone some where will be holding securities at the time of their death.. and those numbers will simply go p00f if it is not recovered..

The purpose of the economy is generating debt faster than the p00f... to help the flow.. but you can rest assure that in the end.. not everyone got paid before their demise.

dude, seriously, you are conflating international finance, social security, US government bonds, and insurance.  You seem to have a general idea of the concepts involved, but have confused them into one big jumble.

I think first of all you meant to say something about the "moral hazard" problem created by insurance, which is where people engage in irresponsibly risky behavior, when they are sure that their losses will be covered by insurance, or in some way borne by others.  However, this applies to CEO's of global Wall Street banks betting a substantial portion of their assets on a single risky financial trade, because they know that if they win they get to keep all of the profits from the trade, but if they lose, we the 'Murican taxpayers pay for their losses (this really happened to Jaime Dimon the CEO of JP Morgan Chase and the legendary "London whale" trade, which occurred after the crimes committed by the other Wall Street scoundrels during the banking crisis of 2008.  Crimes were committed but nobody went to jail).

But that moral hazard problem does not apply to GH'ers trading their Clacks and keyboards.  Every GH'er should always insist on USPS priority shipping with tracking number AND insurance.  This is not immoral behavior or bad economic policy.  Please do not give out such bad advice.  Failing to pay for insurance is bad idea.

Also, tp4, you have mixed in the perpetual deficit spending of the US Govt.  This is a complicated issue, and will take a very long discussion to explain, that nobody wants to read.  However, in brief, deficit spending is not always a bad thing, and in fact in a recession, it is a good thing.  However, the current deficit spending in the US is probably a bad thing, and our current problems were created by the Bush tax cuts, and the two Bush wars, which occurred at the same time.  However, all of the current financial problems of the US Govt. can be solved with simple changes to the US tax policy, as they were in 1997-98, when the Clinton administration ran budget surpluses.  However, 'Muricans will have to stop voting for crazy Republicans. 
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:45:47
Eth0s..

I know how money works.

Deflection of responsibility is what you're assuming, when you say GHers or anyone willingly living under debt based economies.

We are all a little-bit responsible for what's happening..  Because we're all capable of saying NO..

Instead, we've said.. Yes, i'd like to borrow with NO chance of ever paying it back..



You can say I've Conflated.. but that's exactly how it is, all these systems are connected..

And My advice is that you DO pay insurance.. (by going through paypal, because they paid for insurance)

Please take ur head out of ur ass, and stop attempting to turn over everything I say for personal reasons..

If you want to talk about the "economy" go to pm..

Everything I've suggested thus far would only help traders here..
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:49:15
I say just forget money, pics are the new currency.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: bueller on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:52:41
Lol you think people looking to trade want money tied up as well? I'd laugh if someone asked me to do that.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:55:42
Lol you think people looking to trade want money tied up as well? I'd laugh if someone asked me to do that.

Bueller, stop trolling.. you got personal beef, go to pm..


The concept here is to end trading, and making it a direct sell..  there's no "extra" money tied up when compared to trading..

You are selling for exact $ amount of what you think your items are worth..

If you can't understand the concept.. Idk, read a book.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: daerid on Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:58:32
This thread is unreadable due to the absolutely ridiculous quote nesting (worst "feature" of this forum, IMO).
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:00:30
This thread is unreadable due to the absolutely ridiculous quote nesting (worst "feature" of this forum, IMO).

you don't need to read anything but the my first post, to be safer in all your future trades.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:01:17
This thread is unreadable due to the absolutely ridiculous quote nesting (worst "feature" of this forum, IMO).

you don't need to read anything but the my first post, to be safer in all your future trades.

TP maybe edit the OP with that one good example that was posted.
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: bueller on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:02:59
Lol you think people looking to trade want money tied up as well? I'd laugh if someone asked me to do that.

Bueller, stop trolling.. you got personal beef, go to pm..


The concept here is to end trading, and making it a direct sell..  there's no "extra" money tied up when compared to trading..

You are selling for exact $ amount of what you think your items are worth..

If you can't understand the concept.. Idk, read a book.

Trolling. That is pretty rich coming from you, king of the trolls.

I understand your concept fully, I just think it's dumb as ****.

Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: paicrai on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:03:09
QUOTES: THE THREAD
Title: Re: Stop Trading..
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:08:30
This thread is unreadable due to the absolutely ridiculous quote nesting (worst "feature" of this forum, IMO).

you don't need to read anything but the my first post, to be safer in all your future trades.

TP maybe edit the OP with that one good example that was posted.

He thought here is "extra" money on top of the agreed upon price.. That isn't the case with 2 invoices, so his example is not completely correct.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: bueller on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:14:00
Your solution doesn't really solve anything, let me explain.

Most people on here are usually trading because they have a hard to find item and are willing to part with it in exchange for something of equal rarity or personal value (see every Clack trade thread created ever). So in your scenario people would exchange money for the items at agreed upon prices. But what happens if one of those people doesn't send it? "Paypal will refund the cost of the goods" you say. Except the person never wanted money, they wanted the item available for trade.

It would just lead to a whole new level of scamming, buying things that were never available for purchase by exploiting your system.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:14:29
Lol you think people looking to trade want money tied up as well? I'd laugh if someone asked me to do that.

Bueller, stop trolling.. you got personal beef, go to pm..


The concept here is to end trading, and making it a direct sell..  there's no "extra" money tied up when compared to trading..

You are selling for exact $ amount of what you think your items are worth..

If you can't understand the concept.. Idk, read a book.

Trolling. That is pretty rich coming from you, king of the trolls.

I understand your concept fully, I just think it's dumb as ****.



No, you clearly do not understand.. There is NO money on top of the exact $worth of the items being sent..
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:16:18
Your solution doesn't really solve anything, let me explain.

Most people on here are usually trading because they have a hard to find item and are willing to part with it in exchange for something of equal rarity or personal value (see every Clack trade thread created ever). So in your scenario people would exchange money for the items at agreed upon prices. But what happens if one of those people doesn't send it? "Paypal will refund the cost of the goods" you say. Except the person never wanted money, they wanted the item available for trade.

It would just lead to a whole new level of scamming, buying things that were never available for purchase by exploiting your system.

If you can not come to terms as to the exact worth of the ITEM to you in $ amounts...... That's your own damn problem...

Everything is has an exact worth in Dollars....

If it does not.. then that means it's PRICELESS.  No such items exist

2 types of priceless items to most people..


Davinci's notes for example, Billgates bought them..

Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: dustinhxc on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:17:52
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:21:01
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.

What about tracking etc?
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: bueller on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:21:04
Your solution doesn't really solve anything, let me explain.

Most people on here are usually trading because they have a hard to find item and are willing to part with it in exchange for something of equal rarity or personal value (see every Clack trade thread created ever). So in your scenario people would exchange money for the items at agreed upon prices. But what happens if one of those people doesn't send it? "Paypal will refund the cost of the goods" you say. Except the person never wanted money, they wanted the item available for trade.

It would just lead to a whole new level of scamming, buying things that were never available for purchase by exploiting your system.

If you can not come to terms as to the exact worth of the ITEM to you in $ amounts...... That's your own damn problem...

Tell that to Clack collectors.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: dustinhxc on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:22:11
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.

What about tracking etc?

It was international and he didn't pay for tracking. :/
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:24:20
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.

What about tracking etc?

It was international and he didn't pay for tracking. :/

that's ur fault... you should've had tracking.. build it into the price next time.


Because you were greedy and wanted to save some money shipping the item.. You got burned because you relinquished what security proof you could've had in the opportunity to have had tracking.

So, you accepted the risk, by not having tracking.. because you could've forced ship by tracking.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: dustinhxc on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:26:43
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.

What about tracking etc?

It was international and he didn't pay for tracking. :/

that's ur fault... you should've had tracking.. build it into the price next time.


Because you were greedy and wanted to save some money shipping the item.. You got burned because you relinquished what security proof you had in the opportunity to have had tracking.

That's a good idea, should enforce tracking in the price.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:27:35
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.

What about tracking etc?

It was international and he didn't pay for tracking. :/

that's ur fault... you should've had tracking.. build it into the price next time.


Because you were greedy and wanted to save some money shipping the item.. You got burned because you relinquished what security proof you had in the opportunity to have had tracking.

That's a good idea, should enforce tracking in the price.

I'm not trying to be mean dustinhxc.. I know some of my posts come out a bit rough..

but.. this is exactly what happened...

I still think ur probably a good guy...
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: dustinhxc on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:29:50
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.

What about tracking etc?

It was international and he didn't pay for tracking. :/

that's ur fault... you should've had tracking.. build it into the price next time.


Because you were greedy and wanted to save some money shipping the item.. You got burned because you relinquished what security proof you had in the opportunity to have had tracking.

That's a good idea, should enforce tracking in the price.

I'm not trying to be mean dustinhxc.. I know some of my posts come out a bit rough..

but.. this is exactly what happened...

I still think ur probably a good guy...

Thanks, I do appreciate the ideas. Tracking is good for both parties.
It should be included for international.
I do it for conus, priority no matter what.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:30:35
Your solution doesn't really solve anything, let me explain.

Most people on here are usually trading because they have a hard to find item and are willing to part with it in exchange for something of equal rarity or personal value (see every Clack trade thread created ever). So in your scenario people would exchange money for the items at agreed upon prices. But what happens if one of those people doesn't send it? "Paypal will refund the cost of the goods" you say. Except the person never wanted money, they wanted the item available for trade.

It would just lead to a whole new level of scamming, buying things that were never available for purchase by exploiting your system.

If you can not come to terms as to the exact worth of the ITEM to you in $ amounts...... That's your own damn problem...

Tell that to Clack collectors.

Everything has an exact worth in Dollars....

If it does not.. then that means it's PRICELESS.  No such item exist


Davinci's notes for example, Billgates bought them..



Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: bueller on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:33:30
Your solution doesn't really solve anything, let me explain.

Most people on here are usually trading because they have a hard to find item and are willing to part with it in exchange for something of equal rarity or personal value (see every Clack trade thread created ever). So in your scenario people would exchange money for the items at agreed upon prices. But what happens if one of those people doesn't send it? "Paypal will refund the cost of the goods" you say. Except the person never wanted money, they wanted the item available for trade.

It would just lead to a whole new level of scamming, buying things that were never available for purchase by exploiting your system.

If you can not come to terms as to the exact worth of the ITEM to you in $ amounts...... That's your own damn problem...

Tell that to Clack collectors.

Everything has an exact worth in Dollars....

If it does not.. then that means it's PRICELESS.  No such item exist


Davinci's notes for example, Billgates bought them..

And therein lies the problem. I could value all clacks at a million dollars a pop, doesn't mean you'd agree and want to send me that amount in order to "trade".
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:36:55
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: bueller on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:39:35
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff

Yep. I've barely got two cents to rub together at the moment but if I had something I really wanted I've got plenty of stuff to trade.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:45:01
Your solution doesn't really solve anything, let me explain.

Most people on here are usually trading because they have a hard to find item and are willing to part with it in exchange for something of equal rarity or personal value (see every Clack trade thread created ever). So in your scenario people would exchange money for the items at agreed upon prices. But what happens if one of those people doesn't send it? "Paypal will refund the cost of the goods" you say. Except the person never wanted money, they wanted the item available for trade.

It would just lead to a whole new level of scamming, buying things that were never available for purchase by exploiting your system.

If you can not come to terms as to the exact worth of the ITEM to you in $ amounts...... That's your own damn problem...

Tell that to Clack collectors.

Everything has an exact worth in Dollars....

If it does not.. then that means it's PRICELESS.  No such item exist


Davinci's notes for example, Billgates bought them..

And therein lies the problem. I could value all clacks at a million dollars a pop, doesn't mean you'd agree and want to send me that amount in order to "trade".


User A, has a clack A, he values @ priceless ($100,000)

User B, has a (nonexistent fake) clack B, he says he also values @ priceless ($100,000)


User B (does not) actually have a clack... but to get your clack, he has to pay you $100,000

User A invoices B $100,000...   User B pays, he gets the clack


User B invoices User A for $100,000...  You pay, but you don't get a clack.. uh oh.. but you do have the $100000 he sent you...

..... you still got $100,000 from User B for your clack



User A pays the $100,000..  does not get the clack..  paypal, investigates.. gets your money back.. or gets insurance to cover it.

in the end USER A will have $100,000 for his alleged PRICELESS clack..



WHERE IS THE PROBLEM...
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:46:08
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...

Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: bueller on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:56:08
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...

So basically you're suggesting for sale threads only. Which doesn't address a lot of the reasons why people trade.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:57:45
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...

So basically you're suggesting for sale threads only. Which doesn't address a lot of the reasons why people trade.

WTF do you mean basically.. if you understood the OP at all.. I was saying make it a double sell the ENTIRE TIME..

What reason do you trade.... that is NOT accomplished by selling..


Money is created for a reason... explicitly designed to STOP people from bartering.. which is antiquated and NOT secure...


I must maintain that bueller, ur a dumb f-  who is doomed to fail life....
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: bueller on Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:59:38
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...

So basically you're suggesting for sale threads only. Which doesn't address a lot of the reasons why people trade.

WTF do you mean basically.. if you understood the OP at all.. I was saying make it a double sell the ENTIRE TIME..

What reason do you trade.... that is NOT accomplished by selling..


Maybe read a book about it or something.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 12:01:42
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...

So basically you're suggesting for sale threads only. Which doesn't address a lot of the reasons why people trade.

WTF do you mean basically.. if you understood the OP at all.. I was saying make it a double sell the ENTIRE TIME..

What reason do you trade.... that is NOT accomplished by selling..


I must maintain that bueller, ur a dumb f-  who is doomed to fail life....


Maybe read a book about it or something.


There is no advantage to TRADING (bartering) when the cost to use paypal and its security feature is $0 with respect to both parties......


The only thing your argument hinged on is that 2 people have "priceless" items...


Since that is not truly possible... your argument fails..
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: bueller on Mon, 20 January 2014, 12:04:26
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...

So basically you're suggesting for sale threads only. Which doesn't address a lot of the reasons why people trade.

I must maintain that bueller, ur a dumb f-  who is doomed to fail life....

Oh no, whatever will I do with my life without your approval. You make me laugh mate.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 12:05:47
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...

So basically you're suggesting for sale threads only. Which doesn't address a lot of the reasons why people trade.

I must maintain that bueller, ur a dumb f-  who is doomed to fail life....

Oh no, whatever will I do with my life without your approval. You make me laugh mate.

IDK.. man.. but being the magnanimous guy that I am..

I'm here to teach you.. to drive the dumbass out of you...
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 12:12:13
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff

If BOTH parties are illiquid (no cash, item only), then... they must go borrow money via collateral.. for example...

For small items, go to a family and friend, and offer him collateral (Your TV) for you to borrow @ probably 0% interest the $ amount you need to initiate the trade...

Once the trade is complete... give the money back, and get back your TV
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: bueller on Mon, 20 January 2014, 12:13:46
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff

If BOTH parties are illiquid (no cash, item only), then... they must go borrow money via collateral.. for example...

For small items, go to a family and friend, and offer him collateral for you to borrow @ probably 0% interest the $ amount you need to initiate the trade...

Once the trade is complete... give the money back, and get back your TV

You have a solution to everything! What can I do to be more like you oh glorious leader?
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 20 January 2014, 12:21:58
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff

If BOTH parties are illiquid (no cash, item only), then... they must go borrow money via collateral.. for example...

For small items, go to a family and friend, and offer him collateral for you to borrow @ probably 0% interest the $ amount you need to initiate the trade...

Once the trade is complete... give the money back, and get back your TV

You have a solution to everything! What can I do to be more like you oh glorious leader?

These are not MY solutions.....

This should be common practice.. common sense.....   

I am honestly in disbelief that you didn't know this to begin with..

Which is why I am some what angry with you under the assumption that you're trolling this thread....

For reasons, I could only assume because I previously Educated/Schooled you on your lack of understanding in Computer CPUs, Computer Monitors and now Keyboard trading...
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: iri on Mon, 20 January 2014, 15:31:32
ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME WITH THIS OVERQUOTING
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 20 January 2014, 15:37:45
ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME WITH THIS OVERQUOTING

The overquoting is what has you upset. :))
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 21 January 2014, 03:27:17
ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME WITH THIS OVERQUOTING

if you have questions about the double-sell method, you could ask it... and I could answer it...
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: bazh on Tue, 21 January 2014, 04:47:37
ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME WITH THIS OVERQUOTING

wow, your comment and avatar couldn't be more fit :))
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:10:31
ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME WITH THIS OVERQUOTING

wow, your comment and avatar couldn't be more fit :))

the quoting isn't that bad...   
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: Tym on Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:15:40
Tp you come across as a Keynesian economist :D Would you carry that banner?
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:21:04

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

Again this is the only important post in this whole thread, all the worthless, "i invoice you, you invoice me, we're a happy family" is all there just to root out the scammer, but as quoted, the scammer is gonna scam.

There is almost literally nothing you can do, and that person will still scam, no big deal, even with paypal. trust me, you can easily get verified paypal accounts. (this is a business, there are legitimate ppl who want paypal accounts but cannot be verified, b/c of country of origin, age, or whatever criteria, but they need paypal to do business and transactions... but of course this can be used for more neferious deeds)

Do you know how fruitless this will turn out? this is no different than the record companies trying to track down idiots who torrent gigs of music, they aren't gonna catch anyone but the dumbest person who is seeding 1,000 albums cuz they just left everything on auto.

the scammers, will get you, that's their job and they're good at it. It's no different than owning a grocery store and having some thugs run in and steal a 6pack of beer, it's the cost of business, it's also the risk you run when you trade physical products on a virtual meeting place across many state lines.

and here, something to think about, you have 45 days to dispute a paypal charge, that means on day 44, when you almost completely forget about what the hell you've traded and you have like 20 transactions on your paypal, this scammer will call his/her CC company and say, hey i don't recognize this charge, it must be fraudulent/i didn't authorize it, etc... CC then charges back to paypal and sends a new CC to the guy/girl.

(at least that would be what i'd do if i were a dirty/no good scammer, you gotta think like one to catch one)
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:52:55

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

Again this is the only important post in this whole thread, all the worthless, "i invoice you, you invoice me, we're a happy family" is all there just to root out the scammer, but as quoted, the scammer is gonna scam.

There is almost literally nothing you can do, and that person will still scam, no big deal, even with paypal. trust me, you can easily get verified paypal accounts. (this is a business, there are legitimate ppl who want paypal accounts but cannot be verified, b/c of country of origin, age, or whatever criteria, but they need paypal to do business and transactions... but of course this can be used for more neferious deeds)

Do you know how fruitless this will turn out? this is no different than the record companies trying to track down idiots who torrent gigs of music, they aren't gonna catch anyone but the dumbest person who is seeding 1,000 albums cuz they just left everything on auto.

the scammers, will get you, that's their job and they're good at it. It's no different than owning a grocery store and having some thugs run in and steal a 6pack of beer, it's the cost of business, it's also the risk you run when you trade physical products on a virtual meeting place across many state lines.

and here, something to think about, you have 45 days to dispute a paypal charge, that means on day 44, when you almost completely forget about what the hell you've traded and you have like 20 transactions on your paypal, this scammer will call his/her CC company and say, hey i don't recognize this charge, it must be fraudulent/i didn't authorize it, etc... CC then charges back to paypal and sends a new CC to the guy/girl.

(at least that would be what i'd do if i were a dirty/no good scammer, you gotta think like one to catch one)

Scammers will be scammers.. 

However, the point of using this message is that Paypal will cover your lose should the transaction go sour... 

What do you people not understand about this..
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:54:06
Tp you come across as a Keynesian economist :D Would you carry that banner?

I don't subscribe strictly to any creed....(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/069.gif)
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:54:54

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

Again this is the only important post in this whole thread, all the worthless, "i invoice you, you invoice me, we're a happy family" is all there just to root out the scammer, but as quoted, the scammer is gonna scam.

There is almost literally nothing you can do, and that person will still scam, no big deal, even with paypal. trust me, you can easily get verified paypal accounts. (this is a business, there are legitimate ppl who want paypal accounts but cannot be verified, b/c of country of origin, age, or whatever criteria, but they need paypal to do business and transactions... but of course this can be used for more neferious deeds)

Do you know how fruitless this will turn out? this is no different than the record companies trying to track down idiots who torrent gigs of music, they aren't gonna catch anyone but the dumbest person who is seeding 1,000 albums cuz they just left everything on auto.

the scammers, will get you, that's their job and they're good at it. It's no different than owning a grocery store and having some thugs run in and steal a 6pack of beer, it's the cost of business, it's also the risk you run when you trade physical products on a virtual meeting place across many state lines.

and here, something to think about, you have 45 days to dispute a paypal charge, that means on day 44, when you almost completely forget about what the hell you've traded and you have like 20 transactions on your paypal, this scammer will call his/her CC company and say, hey i don't recognize this charge, it must be fraudulent/i didn't authorize it, etc... CC then charges back to paypal and sends a new CC to the guy/girl.

(at least that would be what i'd do if i were a dirty/no good scammer, you gotta think like one to catch one)

Scammers will be scammers.. 

However, the point of using this message is that Paypal will cover your lose should the transaction go sour... 

What do you people not understand about this..

TP all they have to do is do a chargeback with their credit card company that is outside the bounds of paypal.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: phoenix1234 on Tue, 21 January 2014, 09:47:35
TP all they have to do is do a chargeback with their credit card company that is outside the bounds of paypal.

There is nothing to ensure the seller will win 100%.
But IMO, a charge back against Paypal is not an easy task.
Here are the process explain:
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/chargeback-guide
https://www.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt%2Fseller%2FChargebackRisk-outside
I never face this kind of problem but likely it will become a war zone out there.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 21 January 2014, 09:54:36
TP all they have to do is do a chargeback with their credit card company that is outside the bounds of paypal.

There is nothing to ensure the seller will win 100%.
But IMO, a charge back against Paypal is not an easy task.
Here are the process explain:
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/chargeback-guide
https://www.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt%2Fseller%2FChargebackRisk-outside
I never face this kind of problem but likely it will become a war zone out there.


you don't chargeback "USING" paypal, you do a chargeback with your payment source.

currently there are 3 ways to "fund" or pay with, paypal

paypal balance
bank account
credit card

if you pay with paypal balance, your **** out of luck, you'll almost never get anything back

if you pay with your bank account, odds are 50/50

if you pay with a credit card (CC) then you can call the CC company, use their own internal whatever chargeback to null/void the transaction, and then it goes up to paypal.

paypal charge back IS difficult and almost never works (i tried 2x, one time was successful the other time was a failure). However even with my initial failure, i just called up my CC, and said it was a fraudulent charge by paypal since it couldn't be resolved, it's pretty much that simple. (these of course were legitimate cases, my paypal is a business account, so i'm not gonna risk my paypal with a silly clack charge back)
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 21 January 2014, 10:11:30
TP all they have to do is do a chargeback with their credit card company that is outside the bounds of paypal.

There is nothing to ensure the seller will win 100%.
But IMO, a charge back against Paypal is not an easy task.
Here are the process explain:
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/chargeback-guide
https://www.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt%2Fseller%2FChargebackRisk-outside
I never face this kind of problem but likely it will become a war zone out there.


you don't chargeback "USING" paypal, you do a chargeback with your payment source.

currently there are 3 ways to "fund" or pay with, paypal

paypal balance
bank account
credit card

if you pay with paypal balance, your **** out of luck, you'll almost never get anything back

if you pay with your bank account, odds are 50/50

if you pay with a credit card (CC) then you can call the CC company, use their own internal whatever chargeback to null/void the transaction, and then it goes up to paypal.

paypal charge back IS difficult and almost never works (i tried 2x, one time was successful the other time was a failure). However even with my initial failure, i just called up my CC, and said it was a fraudulent charge by paypal since it couldn't be resolved, it's pretty much that simple. (these of course were legitimate cases, my paypal is a business account, so i'm not gonna risk my paypal with a silly clack charge back)

If you have proof of shipment and of receipt, along with good credit..

Then you have NOTHING to worry about..

It's up to you whether or not to use CC @ 3% or the Bank..


I find it ridiculous that you could claim, it's Difficult and almost never work, using your personal reference of minor incidences..

If you push this as far as possible.. one of the creditors will buckle and pay you back..
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 21 January 2014, 10:32:52
all that proof does not matter, the scammer will use the loop-hole of the CC companies ability to stop the transaction and take money back from paypal, and then that loss/cost gets passed right back to the seller (the non scammer)

wth does the CC fee have anything to do with it? of course the scammer is willing to use the CC and pay the fee, that way he/she will be able to use the CC's services.

who is going to payback the seller? paypal? no, they'll be stuck with a negative balance, because when a transaction gets charged back, paypal will immediately bring that back to the seller and take the appropriate amount out of either of the 3 sources
balance
bank account
CC

paypal will take money first, hit you with the bill, then you can try to dispute it later, but the money will be gone.

There's a reason there are so many ways to fund a paypal account, not to make it easier to deposit money into it, but for paypal to quickly take money out.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 21 January 2014, 11:38:19
all that proof does not matter, the scammer will use the loop-hole of the CC companies ability to stop the transaction and take money back from paypal, and then that loss/cost gets passed right back to the seller (the non scammer)

wth does the CC fee have anything to do with it? of course the scammer is willing to use the CC and pay the fee, that way he/she will be able to use the CC's services.

who is going to payback the seller? paypal? no, they'll be stuck with a negative balance, because when a transaction gets charged back, paypal will immediately bring that back to the seller and take the appropriate amount out of either of the 3 sources
balance
bank account
CC

paypal will take money first, hit you with the bill, then you can try to dispute it later, but the money will be gone.

There's a reason there are so many ways to fund a paypal account, not to make it easier to deposit money into it, but for paypal to quickly take money out.

a hold on funds is hardly a problem as long as in the end you're paid.

and the proof of shipment makes all the difference.


If you feel uncomfortable with dealing with the bank. then use ur CC, so you have another line to complaint to..

It doesn't matter..

You can keep the dispute, and they will never be able to close it, as long as you have some evidence..

If they push far enough.   Threaten to sue them.. I guarantee they'll just cut their loss and pay you..


You seem to be entrenched in preserving this RISKY convenience of bartering online.. Hell, maybe ur a scammer, and that's why you'd like that.. LOL..

Bartering.. is the worst and most insecure way of transaction available to anyone these days.



All you've said thus far amounts to simply, that "YOU're" not willing to go far enough to get your own damn money back..   But please don't push your laziness and fear of confrontation onto others..


If you are in the right... You fight to the death for it...  That is the nature of contractual agreement...   and it has made the world a better place...


Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:04:29
the less of a stance you have to make your point, the less sense you make, that's your mo, i don't know how calling me a scammer or whatever weird mundane point your trying to make is going to do for your point, it's not.

the point of the retort, is that scammer is gonna scam, and your invoice me, i'll invoice you deal won't help any and actually just cause more (virtual)paperwork and annoyance.

you might've had a decent idea, other ppl have argue'd that it's silly and won't work, if you have nothing to add other than "we'll it's my idea, i'm gonna go down with the ship and defend it, cuz... it's my idea", then it'll just de-evolve into worthlessness.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: Michael on Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:06:36
de-evolve into worthlessness.


99.9% of tp's posts.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:35:59
de-evolve into worthlessness.


99.9% of tp's posts.

Being generous today?
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:45:16
LOL.. I see my fan club has returned.. whenever someone runs out of true facts and reason to defend.. (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/069.gif)
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: Michael on Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:46:30
de-evolve into worthlessness.


99.9% of tp's posts.

Being generous today?


Yeah, I am in a good mood. :)
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: bueller on Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:48:14
LOL.. I see my fan club has returned.. whenever someone runs out of true facts and reason to defend..
Show Image
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/069.gif)


Haha yeah everyone else must be wrong right?
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: iri on Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:49:21
tjcaustin successfully trolled tp4? good.
Title: Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:56:42
sigh... alright guys.. if you really want to continue your bartering and this chain of complaints of un-trackable, unrecoverable, and uninsured transactions.

All of which based solely on FAITH in the random trader over the internet..

So. be it..  More money for the scammers..  (http://www.emotasia.com/wp-content/uploads/totally-naughty-panda-emoticon-32.gif)