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geekhack Marketplace => Great Finds => Topic started by: ebacho on Fri, 24 January 2014, 17:02:01

Title: Industrial F XT
Post by: ebacho on Fri, 24 January 2014, 17:02:01
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Industrial-IBM-clicky-keyboard-/251430365195?pt=US_Vintage_Computing_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a8a6ae80b

Clickykeyboards page is sparely populated: http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/11066/subcatid/0/id/171727
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 24 January 2014, 17:07:10
Whoa. I find that much more interesting than the industrial SSK. Sadly, they don't ship to Canada.  :(
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: 127001 on Fri, 24 January 2014, 17:26:57
Welp... was hoping the other industrials would have distracted everyone. Oh well. :p
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: AKIMbO on Fri, 24 January 2014, 17:27:14
I'm definitely bidding on this.  I'd love to have an industrial XT!
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 24 January 2014, 17:30:19
I am not in this dogfight, but did I remember that industrial XT cases are metal top & bottom? Or was that something special(ized)?
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: ebacho on Fri, 24 January 2014, 17:34:07
On closer inspection I think this listing is more similar to this one listed on clickykeyboards, judging by the font at any rate http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/11066/subcatid/0/id/461779

Anyone know more about these than I do, please correct me.

I am not in this dogfight, but did I remember that industrial XT cases are metal top & bottom? Or was that something special(ized)?


Might have been something specialized, since most XT's I saw while researching this particular one was the normal plastic top/metal bottom.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Aer Fixus on Fri, 24 January 2014, 19:50:52
On closer inspection I think this listing is more similar to this one listed on clickykeyboards, judging by the font at any rate http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/11066/subcatid/0/id/461779

Anyone know more about these than I do, please correct me.

I am not in this dogfight, but did I remember that industrial XT cases are metal top & bottom? Or was that something special(ized)?


Might have been something specialized, since most XT's I saw while researching this particular one was the normal plastic top/metal bottom.

Figures it'd be posted here... Anyway, it's certainly not buckling spring. You can just tell by the shape of the caps. I don't know what kind of switches it has, but it might be the old style alps like some of the other boards of the era including some other IBM boards that used green alps.

The shape of the caps is wrong and the plate is not curved. The keys are molded to curve.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 24 January 2014, 20:22:52
Anyway, it's certainly not buckling spring. You can just tell by the shape of the caps. I don't know what kind of switches it has, but it might be the old style alps like some of the other boards of the era including some other IBM boards that used green alps.

The shape of the caps is wrong and the plate is not curved. The keys are molded to curve.

Huh?

This looks just like all the F XTs I have had.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: ebacho on Fri, 24 January 2014, 20:26:12
Anyway, it's certainly not buckling spring. You can just tell by the shape of the caps. I don't know what kind of switches it has, but it might be the old style alps like some of the other boards of the era including some other IBM boards that used green alps.

The shape of the caps is wrong and the plate is not curved. The keys are molded to curve.

Huh?

This looks just like all the F XTs I have had.


The incline appears different, and the font is a bit off as well on further examination.  Compare the two clickykeyboard pages I linked earlier and it should be apparent if you look at the back of the keycap, which is slightly curved, compared to a normal XT, which is straighter and more defined.

That said, the board is still a collectible piece I'd imagine.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Aer Fixus on Fri, 24 January 2014, 20:32:58
Anyway, it's certainly not buckling spring. You can just tell by the shape of the caps. I don't know what kind of switches it has, but it might be the old style alps like some of the other boards of the era including some other IBM boards that used green alps.

The shape of the caps is wrong and the plate is not curved. The keys are molded to curve.

Huh?

This looks just like all the F XTs I have had.

Look at the edge of the keycaps (especially the stepped ones on the left of the alphanumerics). They line up flush with the plastic of the case. If you look, the case plastic is not curved like a normal XT, it's flat. The different rows of keys are molded for that row as apposed to normal buckling spring caps that are all molded the same shape and placed on a curve. Look at the tab key. Compared to the step, it's nearly flat. Now look at the left shift key. It's clearly angled.

Now look at a normal XT board. These keys are not angled compared to their step. And the case has a curve molded into it.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Soarer on Fri, 24 January 2014, 20:34:06
Bottom edge of the F-keys is a dead straight line all the way down the column, would be curved if F.

Keycaps have more angular corners than F keycaps.

Still, I would :cool:
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Aer Fixus on Fri, 24 January 2014, 20:42:52
Bottom edge of the F-keys is a dead straight line all the way down the column, would be curved if F.

Keycaps have more angular corners than F keycaps.

Still, I would :cool:

I'm not saying it's not worth having. It's just not a Model F.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: AKIMbO on Fri, 24 January 2014, 20:44:47
All this talk about the keyboard not being an F is reverse psychology.  I'm not falling for it! 


:P
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: E TwentyNine on Fri, 24 January 2014, 20:52:06
I enjoy the games people play here when a popular auction is being watched.  "That industrial M will never go over $250!"   :))

By the way, this is the same seller that sold the non-clicky industrial XT not too long ago.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 24 January 2014, 20:55:43
All this talk about the keyboard not being an F is reverse psychology.  I'm not falling for it! 


I don't see how you can glean all this information from a single bad picture taken from an odd angle.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 24 January 2014, 21:28:18
All this talk about the keyboard not being an F is reverse psychology.  I'm not falling for it! 


 :p

Don't worry they're trying to psyche you out, so that you wouldn't bid higher than them.  If you love these relics then go for it like a junkie out for ice, don't hold back  :thumb: .
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Soarer on Fri, 24 January 2014, 21:43:30
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: AKIMbO on Fri, 24 January 2014, 21:46:51
(Attachment Link)

Fine, fine! Soarer you win....it's not capacitive BS.  T_T

Crushing my dreams man, you're crushing them.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Michael on Fri, 24 January 2014, 21:49:01
(Attachment Link)

Fine, fine! Soarer you win....it's not capacitive BS.  T_T

Crushing my dreams man, you're crushing them.


Ummm... you could always just paint the XT case that color. Just sayin'! :)
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Aer Fixus on Fri, 24 January 2014, 22:17:43
(Attachment Link)

Fine, fine! Soarer you win....it's not capacitive BS.  T_T

Crushing my dreams man, you're crushing them.


Ummm... you could always just paint the XT case that color. Just sayin'! :)

What about the black IBM logo?
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Michael on Fri, 24 January 2014, 22:25:39
(Attachment Link)

Fine, fine! Soarer you win....it's not capacitive BS.  T_T

Crushing my dreams man, you're crushing them.


Ummm... you could always just paint the XT case that color. Just sayin'! :)

What about the black IBM logo?


Edit: actually, you could print one out, and laminate it nicely :)
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: 127001 on Fri, 24 January 2014, 22:51:52
If someone here wins this please contact me. It may will be within your interest to do so. ;)
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 25 January 2014, 00:55:08
Likely OAK switches, like in clickeykeybaords and webwit's examples:
http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_industrial/xt/
(http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_industrial/xt/8.jpg)
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: berserkfan on Sat, 25 January 2014, 01:47:28
Likely OAK switches, like in clickeykeybaords and webwit's examples:
http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_industrial/xt/
Show Image
(http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_industrial/xt/8.jpg)


Am quite glad to have my gut feeling vindicated.

There's a lot of Model F XT lookalikes online, and those that don't use capacitative buckling springs tend to have keycaps similar to this. I didn't know about OAK switches, but I noticed the different keycaps and figured it was unlikely to be the only buckling spring keyboard with keycaps from a unique mould.

That said, if I hadn't decided to stop posting in great finds, I would have posted this also...
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 25 January 2014, 09:30:45
Bottom edge of the F-keys is a dead straight line all the way down the column, would be curved if F.

Keycaps have more angular corners than F keycaps.



Thank you, I stand corrected. I am glad that someone was knowledgeable enough to make it clear.

I was not bidding on it anyway, but somebody was.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Soarer on Sat, 25 January 2014, 09:40:54
Oh no, I was just adding to what Aer Fixus said :)

And to be clear, I _would_ be bidding if it was more local!
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: AKIMbO on Sat, 25 January 2014, 09:51:41
Enilighten me on the OAK switch.  I can barely find anything online about it.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: berserkfan on Sat, 25 January 2014, 10:15:25
Enilighten me on the OAK switch.  I can barely find anything online about it.

Akimbo, if you're lucky, it might turn out to be something that beats Hall Effect or something! But I also didn't find anything when googling. Trust Dorkvader to have the esoteric knowledge nobody else has.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 25 January 2014, 13:34:50
Was trying to find information about Oak swtiches and found this article (look at the date):
http://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/05/business/technology-the-membrane-keyboard.html
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: AKIMbO on Sat, 25 January 2014, 13:42:39
Was trying to find information about Oak swtiches and found this article (look at the date):
http://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/05/business/technology-the-membrane-keyboard.html

That was an interesting read.  So it's a capacitive membrane type switch with springs that allow over-travel of the key past actuation.  Sounds interesting!
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: berserkfan on Sat, 25 January 2014, 15:02:31
better you than me...  :p why not buy and give us a review? I don't think you will have too much competition in the bidding, heh

Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 25 January 2014, 16:25:04
Hi-Tek "Space Invaders" prove that buckling springs are not the only reasonable option.

However, if these were good, why have they disappeared with hardly a trace?
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 25 January 2014, 16:40:12
^^ bad marketing? :D
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 25 January 2014, 17:12:58
Hi-Tek "Space Invaders" prove that buckling springs are not the only reasonable option.

However, if these were good, why have they disappeared with hardly a trace?

Cost perhaps like all large businesses they start to hand over the engineering costings to the accountancy section and they start to disembowel the original design to help eliminate costs in production.  IBM is littered with bad decisions due to these monumental arseholes, whose sole concern is to save a few cents on every item produced.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: ebacho on Sat, 25 January 2014, 17:25:21
Hi-Tek "Space Invaders" prove that buckling springs are not the only reasonable option.

However, if these were good, why have they disappeared with hardly a trace?


Honestly I didn't like the feel of space invaders and much prefer buckling springs, though to be fair, I'm not sure how much feel would play a role in business decisions.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 25 January 2014, 17:40:31
Honestly I didn't like the feel of space invaders and much prefer buckling springs,

Of course, I prefer the Model F over all others, hands down, but there is obviously room for many other mechanisms on the market.

I wonder whether Cherry really deserves the market share that they currently enjoy, or whether all the other mechanical switch makers have fallen by the wayside because of esoteric business fluctuations, including bad decisions on both sides of the supply/demand equation.

I think that Alps and Space Invaders both feel better than Cherries, and SMKs are very nice, too. But, except for Alps, you can only find these others in ancient, awkward configurations that require the user to make compromises in use, after he has gone to the trouble to track them down and buy them.

And now I am interested to try OAK!

Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 25 January 2014, 20:15:33
I had a snipe bid in before this got posted here. But I have withdrawn it, as I'm not as interested in OAK switches as some others probably are. So get those snipes in, collectors!
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 25 January 2014, 20:59:04
Enilighten me on the OAK switch.  I can barely find anything online about it.

Also seen in the sun type 3 and Osborne portable. There are some good pictures in an 'identify this' topic at Dt once.
http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/a-test-for-haata-t3702.html
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Charizard^ on Sat, 25 January 2014, 21:11:13
Do the keycaps look blue to anyone else? They kinda look blue to me. Also this keyboard isn't clicky according to the seller.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Wildcard on Sun, 26 January 2014, 13:42:14
I was thinking of bidding earlier but I also noticed something was off and checked one of my XT's. I'm still going to bid though depending on where the price goes in the next day. If anything this will be good to try out new switches and use for other projects.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sun, 26 January 2014, 15:49:00
Honestly I didn't like the feel of space invaders and much prefer buckling springs,

Of course, I prefer the Model F over all others, hands down, but there is obviously room for many other mechanisms on the market.

I wonder whether Cherry really deserves the market share that they currently enjoy, or whether all the other mechanical switch makers have fallen by the wayside because of esoteric business fluctuations, including bad decisions on both sides of the supply/demand equation.

And now I am interested to try OAK!


You crazy, there is not room for anything else but buckling spring.

And Cherry does not deserve their market share.  Typing on a Matias right now and it is wonderful.  Much better than Cherry for typing.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: 127001 on Mon, 27 January 2014, 00:01:41
Just throwing this out there:

I will trade a F AT for this keyboard to whoever wins it.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 27 January 2014, 00:03:59
Just throwing this out there:

I will trade a F AT for this keyboard to whoever wins it.

Just put down a snipe for it.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: berserkfan on Mon, 27 January 2014, 02:51:28
Just throwing this out there:

I will trade a F AT for this keyboard to whoever wins it.

Fantastic deal! Too bad I'm not in the running, heh. Shipping costs will kill...
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 27 January 2014, 15:10:02
Only $51 plus shipping...not bad I suppose!

So who won?
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: AKIMbO on Mon, 27 January 2014, 17:50:51
Only $51 plus shipping...not bad I suppose!

So who won?
Not I.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 27 January 2014, 17:56:56
Forgot about this one! I wanted it for wcass project.
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: E TwentyNine on Thu, 30 January 2014, 19:01:31
Well, you have another chance.

It's been relisted:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Industrial-IBM-non-clicky-keyboard-/251439095889
Title: Re: Industrial F XT
Post by: Charizard^ on Thu, 30 January 2014, 19:54:54
I had the second chance offer but I let it get away. /: