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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Freemanix on Sun, 22 February 2009, 14:02:11

Title: Switches in old Thinkpad keyboards?
Post by: Freemanix on Sun, 22 February 2009, 14:02:11: Hi!

I very very like typing on my old but great Thinkpad X31 notebook. The keyboard, at least to the notebook standards, allow me to really fly with my 10-8 fingers technique. Interestingly, newer Thinkpad models does not have so great keyboards anymore .. T41 or the T60 model in my office is not as good.

For desktop, which I now use more and more, I used to type on rubber dome .. and I hate it. I tried linear Cherry (old 81-3000L model) and I disliked it .. it was hard to tell when the travel is enough.

So, my question to all of you is .. what type of keyboard the X31 was using? Some scissors design? ALPS? Is there possibility to get standard 102/105 key US layout with similar tactile feel? Can you recommend?

I know there were IBM ThinkNavi (cannot remember the name ..) desktop keyboards, with integrated touchpad, but they had nonstandard keyboard layout .. I just want standard keyboard with similar keys ...
Title: Switches in old Thinkpad keyboards?
Post by: zwmalone on Sun, 22 February 2009, 14:08:48: Quote from: Freemanix;22417
Hi!

I very very like typing on my old but great Thinkpad X31 notebook. The keyboard, at least to the notebook standards, allow me to really fly with my 10-8 fingers technique. Interestingly, newer Thinkpad models does not have so great keyboards anymore .. T41 or the T60 model in my office is not as good.

For desktop, which I now use more and more, I used to type on rubber dome .. and I hate it. I tried linear Cherry (old 81-3000L model) and I disliked it .. it was hard to tell when the travel is enough.

So, my question to all of you is .. what type of keyboard the X31 was using? Some scissors design? ALPS? Is there possibility to get standard 102/105 key US layout with similar tactile feel? Can you recommend?

I know there were IBM ThinkNavi (cannot remember the name ..) desktop keyboards, with integrated touchpad, but they had nonstandard keyboard layout .. I just want standard keyboard with similar keys ...

Older thinkpads had nmb/chicony keyboards. I happen to have 2 NMB ones I'm trying to convert to ps/2.

The keyboard you're thinking of is the Ultranav and I'm pretty sure it's a standard layout...
Title: Switches in old Thinkpad keyboards?
Post by: zwmalone on Sun, 22 February 2009, 14:12:54: Without numpad: http://www.amazon.com/IBM-31P9490-Keyboard-Thinkpad-Black/dp/B0002PUIAA/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1235333363&sr=8-1

With numpad: http://www.amazon.com/IBM-USB-Keyboard-UltraNav-31P8950/dp/B00009APTK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1235333363&sr=8-2
Title: Switches in old Thinkpad keyboards?
Post by: Freemanix on Sun, 22 February 2009, 14:34:14: The UltraNavs have nonstandard (more notebook like) placement of arrows and home/end,pgup/dn etc.. The pointer is nice plus, but the touchpad is ugly MINUS. I would prefer normal desktop layout.

So, the NMB or Chicony use mechanical switches?
Title: Switches in old Thinkpad keyboards?
Post by: bhtooefr on Sun, 22 February 2009, 14:34:26: By the time the X31 came out, IBM had been using scissor switches for quite a while. It's just a really good implementation.

Surprised you don't care for the newer models, as keyboard feel is something that IBM and Lenovo both focused on on the newer models - IIRC, the T4x's keyboard feel was limited by flex in the chassis of the laptop, and had they put the keyboard in an old ThinkPad 600 (considered to have one of the best ThinkPad keyboards ever,) it would've felt better than the original keyboard, with the right version. And the T6x has a magnesium roll cage, for less chassis flex.
Title: Switches in old Thinkpad keyboards?
Post by: CX23882 on Sun, 22 February 2009, 15:25:18: I love the X31's keyboard, and what's not to love: It's quiet, yet gives good tactile feedback, and the feel of the keys is ... I don't know the best word - crisp? precise?

I like mechanical switches and buckling springs best, but if I had to have a keyboard for a noise-sensitive environment, something similar to the X31 keyboard would be it.
Title: Switches in old Thinkpad keyboards?
Post by: Freemanix on Sun, 22 February 2009, 15:30:49: CX23882: Yes, crisp .. that is the world. I prefer FEELING the press by fingers to HEARING it .. Its like some people want to crush bubble foil .. they like the sound and feel of it being popped .. and I like pushing the keys on X31 :) ..

So, what are good scissors mechanism implementations on desktop keyboards today?
Title: Switches in old Thinkpad keyboards?
Post by: Freemanix on Sun, 22 February 2009, 15:39:12: Quote from: bhtooefr;22422

Surprised you don't care for the newer models, as keyboard feel is something that IBM and Lenovo both focused on on the newer models - IIRC, the T4x's keyboard feel was limited by flex in the chassis of the laptop, and had they put the keyboard in an old ThinkPad 600 (considered to have one of the best ThinkPad keyboards ever,) it would've felt better than the original keyboard, with the right version. And the T6x has a magnesium roll cage, for less chassis flex.

The T6x might have magnesium here and there, but that piece in my office has a bit loose palm rest under my right hand .. it moves a bit .. X31 is rock solid here (more precisely, lithium solid .. as in older designs the battery was in front). And the keys on T60 has some plastic-touches-plastic feel when pressed .. not so precise feel as that on X31.
Title: Switches in old Thinkpad keyboards?
Post by: lowpoly on Sun, 22 February 2009, 15:46:47: The Space Saver II is older than the UltraNavs:

http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/9231/subcatid/0/id/222140

(http://www.clickykeyboard.com/2006/sep012006/sep012006-004.jpg)

Rubber dome though.
Title: Switches in old Thinkpad keyboards?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 22 February 2009, 16:05:20: Isnt the IBM Model M4-1/Unicomp Mighty Mouse basically the keyboard from a 700-series Thinkpad in external form?