geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: cchan on Mon, 23 February 2009, 20:53:22

Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: cchan on Mon, 23 February 2009, 20:53:22: Five dollars and thirty-four cents shipped. I'm typing this post using my 1989 Model M connected through it right now.

Product URL: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8909

Now watch, I'll start a run on these and Dx will never have them back in stock when I want a second one. Lol.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: ozar on Mon, 23 February 2009, 20:56:55: Sounds like a good deal, especially considering the free shipping... thanks!
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: cchan on Mon, 23 February 2009, 21:10:53: No problem. It also works with the M4, Cherry MX11800, and NMB RT6856TW. I tested the mouse part to work with my Logitech Marble Mouse and MX11800's trackball.

ETA: There are several DX forum posts that claim it doesn't work with ISO layout keyboards' extra key. I can't test this since all my keyboards are ANSI.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: bhtooefr on Mon, 23 February 2009, 21:33:02: The Model M actually is a combined ISO/ANSI layout, it's just that the ISO keys are hidden by the left shift and the enter keys.

To test compatibility, grab a ballpoint pen refill or something of similar diameter, pop off the left shift key, and stick the refill in the right side hole (the one that doesn't have a spring mechanism.) If you get backslashes, you've got a compatible adapter. If you don't, you don't.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: skriefal on Mon, 23 February 2009, 21:38:06: Be prepared to wait a long time to receive these from Dealextreme. I've placed a few orders with them, and the items usually arrive in 2-4 weeks. It is cheap, though...
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: D-EJ915 on Mon, 23 February 2009, 21:44:26: Quote from: bhtooefr;22554
The Model M actually is a combined ISO/ANSI layout, it's just that the ISO keys are hidden by the left shift and the enter keys.

To test compatibility, grab a ballpoint pen refill or something of similar diameter, pop off the left shift key, and stick the refill in the right side hole (the one that doesn't have a spring mechanism.) If you get backslashes, you've got a compatible adapter. If you don't, you don't.
so to convert a ANSI to ISO I Just need to get the key stems? That's pretty cool, didn't know that.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: bhtooefr on Mon, 23 February 2009, 22:39:53: Well... no.

You have to grind off the rivets, open up the board, and add in the BS mechanisms. There's also plugs in the holes where the stems go, and you have to remove those somehow.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: D-EJ915 on Tue, 24 February 2009, 00:27:12: Quote from: bhtooefr;22560
Well... no.

You have to grind off the rivets, open up the board, and add in the BS mechanisms. There's also plugs in the holes where the stems go, and you have to remove those somehow.
aww bummer :(
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: wheel83 on Tue, 24 February 2009, 01:22:31: thanks for the tip...
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: FKSSR on Tue, 24 February 2009, 08:00:38: This is related, so I am going to slightly hijack this thread instead of starting another...

Does anyone know of a decently priced KVM switch with usb and ps/2 ports so that I can have two keyboards and/or mice hooked up to the same computer at the same time and just switch between the two (sets)?

Thanks!
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: bhtooefr on Tue, 24 February 2009, 09:53:10: You don't need a KVM for that.

I don't believe there's a way to do multiple PS/2 devices on the same system cleanly, but you can do a PS/2 mouse, a PS/2 keyboard, and then a USB mouse and keyboard. Or, two USB mice and two USB keyboards. Or any combination of the above, as long as there's not more than one PS/2 mouse and one PS/2 keyboard.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: FKSSR on Tue, 24 February 2009, 10:33:42: oh sweet! I didn't know that. Thanks!
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: bhtooefr on Tue, 24 February 2009, 10:39:37: And, also, if you really do have two PS/2 mice and keyboards that you want to use...

PS/2->USB adapters. :)
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: zwmalone on Tue, 24 February 2009, 14:55:40: Quote from: bhtooefr;22598
You don't need a KVM for that.

I don't believe there's a way to do multiple PS/2 devices on the same system cleanly, but you can do a PS/2 mouse, a PS/2 keyboard, and then a USB mouse and keyboard. Or, two USB mice and two USB keyboards. Or any combination of the above, as long as there's not more than one PS/2 mouse and one PS/2 keyboard.

IF you use linux you can use 2 PS/2 keyboards (One in the mouse port) because who really uses ps/2 mice anymore :p
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: Viett on Tue, 17 March 2009, 14:28:41: The adapter I ordered came to day, and I was pretty pleased. PS/2 keyboards are hot-swappable with this adapter. I'm not sure if that means it is an adapter, or a converter, but I'm rather indifferent considering it works the way I want it to.

The USB ports are not 2.0, but I did not expect them to be. They’re pretty convenient for my old laptop that does not have USB 2.0 anyway, and only has one single port.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: wheel83 on Tue, 17 March 2009, 14:35:56: i just got a couple. they work fine for converting and also plugging in your mouse (enough power). i wouldn't plug a hd to it though.

good find.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: cchan on Tue, 17 March 2009, 19:25:26: Argh, it seems the converter part of mine died two nights ago. Doesn't work any more with my Thinkpad either in the laptop itself or on the docking station. This is pissing me off! I have no good USB keyboards >.<
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Tue, 17 March 2009, 20:12:09: Quote from: skriefal;22556
Be prepared to wait a long time to receive these from Dealextreme. I've placed a few orders with them, and the items usually arrive in 2-4 weeks. It is cheap, though...

True. DealExtreme orders do take a long time to arrive. Stuffs from ledshoppe.com tend to take less time to arrive. I got my converters from DealExtreme and it took about two weeks to receive them. To be fair, the website did say that the products I ordered were back ordered, and they were waiting for the supplier to ship them. True or not, I don't know, but like you said, their products are cheap though.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: Hak Foo on Tue, 17 March 2009, 21:20:20: So if not this one, what would you reccomend? I'd actually prefer something compact and keyboard-only, that can be ran in series with the (already far too long for my needs) stock cable.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: Biggs on Tue, 17 March 2009, 22:21:01: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103747 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103747)
(http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2266383w345.jpg)

http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productID=4850&rtn=10134&core_cross=SEARCH_DETAIL_COMPARISON (http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productID=4850&rtn=10134&core_cross=SEARCH_DETAIL_COMPARISON)
(http://www.cyberguys.com/images/prod_images/p4850a.jpg)
(http://www.cyberguys.com/images/detail_images/p4850a-1.jpg)
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: soobaerodude on Thu, 26 March 2009, 01:11:31: The dealextreme adapter does not work for me with a Model M and a MacBook Pro.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: MANISH7 on Mon, 06 April 2009, 14:14:12: Quote from: Biggs;24795

http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productID=4850&rtn=10134&core_cross=SEARCH_DETAIL_COMPARISON (http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productID=4850&rtn=10134&core_cross=SEARCH_DETAIL_COMPARISON)
Show Image
(http://www.cyberguys.com/images/prod_images/p4850a.jpg)

Show Image
(http://www.cyberguys.com/images/detail_images/p4850a-1.jpg)

Is this the same exact thing at clickykeyboards or is it just an imitation? The one I ordered from clickykeyboards works great. If these guys are selling the same exact thing at less than half the price - I'd rather order this. Thanks for the tip.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: ozar on Mon, 06 April 2009, 14:16:30: Quote from: MANISH7;27289
Is this the same exact thing at clickykeyboards or is it just an imitation? The one I ordered from clickykeyboards works great. If these guys are selling the same exact thing at less than half the price - I'd rather order this. Thanks for the tip.

Yes, it's the same thing.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: huha on Mon, 06 April 2009, 14:23:03: Quote from: cchan;22553
ETA: There are several DX forum posts that claim it doesn't work with ISO layout keyboards' extra key. I can't test this since all my keyboards are ANSI.

Can anyone recommend a reasonably inexpensive converter that does work with the extra key? I already bought 3 different adapters here and I'm sick of them. Two of them don't support the extra key and the third resets the keyboard from time to time, which extremely unnerving.

-huha
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: MANISH7 on Mon, 06 April 2009, 15:03:15: Quote from: ozar;27290
Yes, it's the same thing.

Thanks! :)
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: iMav on Sun, 10 May 2009, 08:15:56: Quote from: soobaerodude;82090
The dealextreme adapter does not work for me with a Model M and a MacBook Pro.
I can confirm this. I ordered a few of these and they do not work with any of the Mac's that I own (Intel and PPC mini's, Macbook, MBP, and G5 iMac).

They all work just fine with the various PC's I have around the house though.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: watduzhkstand4 on Wed, 13 May 2009, 17:21:27: dealextreme is the best place to go if you want cheap because they order as they receive your order. They don't have any stock in hand at anytime, that's how they can have such low prices.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 13 May 2009, 17:59:48: Quote from: huha;83889
Can anyone recommend a reasonably inexpensive converter that does work with the extra key? I already bought 3 different adapters here and I'm sick of them. Two of them don't support the extra key and the third resets the keyboard from time to time, which extremely unnerving.

-huha

I have a Belkin one that works with my Unicomp and AT102W fine.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: huha on Wed, 13 May 2009, 18:43:43: Quote from: ch_123;90675
I have a Belkin one that works with my Unicomp and AT102W fine.

Which one exactly?
I'm starting to need a few, so I'll either buy some of the belkin ones or ask the blue cube guys about shipping cost.

-huha
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: iMav on Thu, 14 May 2009, 09:26:48: I think we need to clarify when we say a certain adapter works. It is apparent that several work with Model M's on various PC's but not on Mac's.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: keyb_gr on Thu, 14 May 2009, 09:45:29: Quote from: ripster;90812
Dealextreme: No go on Mac, May fail in 3 days

Guess these are affected by crappy soldering. Bad enough with oldschool solder, deadly for the lead-free (RoHS) stuff.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: jayray999 on Thu, 14 May 2009, 10:13:30: I can vouch for the clickykeyboards (http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/11298/subcatid/0/id/124184)/cyberguys adapter. It works without needing a reboot for a Model M Mini + Macbook combo and on all my Windows (XP) computers. Wish I had known that cyberguys are selling it for half of what clickykeyboards charge. As most of you probably know this adapter is the basis for a cool Model M mod: http://zevv.nl/play/misc/ibm-usb/. Part of me is tempted by this lower price to mod all my model Ms but Chris Lee's solution is more elegant http://mg8.org/rump/.

On a different note, avoid the purple-green dirt cheap Ebay adapter (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PS2-KEYBOARD-MOUSE-TO-USB-CONVERTER-ADAPTER-FOR-PC_W0QQitemZ220369374181QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Cables_Adapters?hash=item334f09cbe5&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1308|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50): you will have no use for the mouse (green) part and it almost always needs a reboot.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 14 May 2009, 10:30:05: Quote from: huha;90685
Which one exactly?
I'm starting to need a few, so I'll either buy some of the belkin ones or ask the blue cube guys about shipping cost.

-huha

It's a "F5U119vE1" according to the sticker on the back. The place I got it from lists it as "F5U119EAE" on the site though.

Sometimes (although this is quite rare) it seems to kinda 'reset' itself - the computer ignores input for a second and the the lights on the keyboard flash on and then off. Then the keyboard comes back into action. I've seen this happen probably less than ten times in over a year, and it's good to go after a second. I've noticed this happen on both my laptop and my desktop, so it was more than likely adaptor related. Don't let it put you off it, I just thought I'd throw it up here for reference.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: keyb_gr on Thu, 14 May 2009, 13:52:33: For .de, availability for the F5U119 seems to be quite good (http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a102345.html).
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: huha on Thu, 14 May 2009, 16:39:03: Quote from: jayray999;90824
On a different note, avoid the purple-green dirt cheap Ebay adapter (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PS2-KEYBOARD-MOUSE-TO-USB-CONVERTER-ADAPTER-FOR-PC_W0QQitemZ220369374181QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Cables_Adapters?hash=item334f09cbe5&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1308|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50): you will have no use for the mouse (green) part and it almost always needs a reboot.

I happen to have two of them. They're all over the place in Germany, so if you're unknowing and just buy a PS/2 to USB adapter, you'll most likely get one of these.
My observations: They're crap. The mouse part is incredibly jerky and the keyboard part doesn't support the ISO layout. Which is even more irritating WHEN IT'S SOLD IN GERMANY. Oh, and it doesn't work with Linux.

Quote from: ch_123;90826
Sometimes (although this is quite rare) it seems to kinda 'reset' itself - the computer ignores input for a second and the the lights on the keyboard flash on and then off. Then the keyboard comes back into action. I've seen this happen probably less than ten times in over a year, and it's good to go after a second. I've noticed this happen on both my laptop and my desktop, so it was more than likely adaptor related. Don't let it put you off it, I just thought I'd throw it up here for reference.

Awww, crap. I almost thought the Belkin adapter would be a solution.
Apart from the two craptastic adapters I own, I have another one; it features a translucent green case and looks just incredibly fugly (I can supply a photo if you so desire). This one works with Linux and supports the ISO layout; the mouse part doesn't jerk around, but it stops working with my Endurapro after about 5 seconds. I thought it was due to the Endurapro drawing too much current, but even a hacked-together PS/2 extension with usb-powered 5V leads (I know this is not recommended by the USB standard) will not remedy the situation. Also, it has the extremely unnerving "PS/2 reset" problem you described above. In certain circumstances, i.e. heavy pounding or testing for rollover, the thing behaves exactly as mentioned above (the flashing LEDs could indicate a PS/2 reset, but I don't have an oscilloscope, so this is just speculation), which is incredibly unnerving.
Given the extreme abundance of just a few models of adapters on the market, I think Belkin just use the same logic as my adapter, which wouldn't remedy my problem at all. At the moment, I use the translucent green adapter for the keyboard part and the "cheap ebay" adapter for the pointing stick, but it's quite jerky.

I probably wouldn't have gotten the Endurapro if I knew what a pain PS/2 to USB adapters are. Unicomp would sell me a USB Controller for the Endurapro, but the shipping cost will most likely cost me an arm and a leg ... :(

-huha
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: cchan on Thu, 14 May 2009, 17:01:22: Quote from: huha;90896
I happen to have two of [the cheap eBay adapters]. They're all over the place in Germany, so if you're unknowing and just buy a PS/2 to USB adapter, you'll most likely get one of these.
My observations: They're crap. The mouse part is incredibly jerky and the keyboard part doesn't support the ISO layout. Which is even more irritating WHEN IT'S SOLD IN GERMANY. Oh, and it doesn't work with Linux.

I have three. The mouse part works fine with my MX8100's touchpad and my Logitech Marble Mouse (with the MX8100 and an NMB RT6856TW keyboard connected, respectively). No experience with one and a Model M though.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: huha on Thu, 14 May 2009, 19:13:26: I think it's time to stop fooling around and do the one and only sensible thing: Collecting valuable information about adapters.
Luckily, there's USBDeview (http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html). Install it, download the vendor database, plug in your adapter and let the program do the magic for you.
Maybe we can collect a list of adapters and turn it into an article for the wiki.

What's of interest to us are Vendor ID and Device ID, as they characterize any given USB device. A picture of the respective device can't hurt, either.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2438&stc=1&d=1242345992)

(1)->(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2439&stc=1&d=1242346008)
(2)->(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2440&stc=1&d=1242346008)

(1) Vendor ID: 04d9
Product ID: 1400
- Works with Linux
- Supports ISO Layout
- Mouse doesn't work with Unicomp Endurapro
- Occasional "PS/2 reset" problems

(2) Vendor ID: 13ba
Product ID: 0017
- Does not work with Linux
- Does not support ISO Layout
- Mouse jerky

-huha
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: cchan on Thu, 14 May 2009, 19:30:31: I have 13ba:0017. For me, mouse is usable. Never tested with ISO board or in Linux.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: Manyak on Thu, 14 May 2009, 20:31:53: Quote from: ripster;90945
I agree but I think I need a "USBDeview for Dummies" guide. I plug in the "Blue Cube" and get one USB Composite Device and two HIDs installed.

Looking at USBDeview it's impossible for me to pick out which one just got installed because I've already got dozens (and dozens) of HIDs installed. I'm trying to figure out what I'm looking for.

According to Clickykeyboards they recommend it because,

The Composite Device is the adapter itself, and the HIDs are the keyboard and mouse that it emulates. Think of them like a middle man.

When you press a key, the signal doesn't just get converted on its way to the PC. The device picks up the signal, then has its 'virtual' keyboard repeat the same key - which is what the PC sees.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: huha on Thu, 14 May 2009, 20:43:18: Quote from: ripster;90945
I agree but I think I need a "USBDeview for Dummies" guide. I plug in the "Blue Cube" and get one USB Composite Device and two HIDs installed.

I'll write something about this tomorrow (it's already way too late 'round here), but it doesn't really matter what device's information you get--vendor id and product id are the same for all components of composite devices, it's just the USB paths that differ.
The blue cube uses Vendor ID 0d3d and Product ID 0001 and it supports both a mouse and a keyboard (at least in theory).

-huha
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: Manyak on Thu, 14 May 2009, 22:10:21: By the way, I found the best solution.

Link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815150153).
(http://c1.neweggimages.com/productimage/15-150-153-01.jpg)

It's a direct hardware connection for your keyboard, so you don't get a repeat rate delay or a limit to your rollover (I know I do with mine at least).

Now if only PCs still had ISA slots, then we could get true native PS/2 cards.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: Manyak on Thu, 14 May 2009, 22:33:07: Quote from: ripster;90977
PCI to USB to PS/2 can cause a bunch of issues and one positive Newegg review isn't enough for me.

And how do you think your motherboard's USB ports are connected?

(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q269/damutation/pciusb.jpg)

USB goes on the PCI bus just like PS/2 and floppy controllers go on the ISA bus. Which PCs still have by the way, it's just called LPC now (low pin count).
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: Manyak on Thu, 14 May 2009, 22:44:41: Quote from: ripster;90980
Sorry, still skeptical. It's my nature. I'll believe it when someone buys it and tries it on multiple OS's and keyboards.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=5621&highlight=pci+usb

I'd buy it, but I don't have a free PCI slot :sad:
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: cchan on Fri, 15 May 2009, 07:32:01: What of laptops? That's the main situation in which I use my adapter because my laptop doesn't have any PS/2 ports.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: huha on Fri, 15 May 2009, 08:24:32: Can anyone supply a picture of the blue cube for the wiki? (I don't know if stock photos constitute fair use for things like that)

Also, can anyone supply data about this (http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productid=10134) adapter and about the Belkin one?

-huha
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: huha on Fri, 15 May 2009, 12:15:50: Quote from: ripster;91062
And for the Ziotec 008841
Pics attached.

Thanks!

Quote
I'm not exactly gonna give this guy a ringing endorsement. I only use it for my wife's trackball (CH DT225). She hasn't yelled at me lately so I assume it's working fine under Windows Vista. I also just plugged in my Model M Mini and it seems to be working. YMMV.

What's the problem with it? Clickykeyboards seem to sell it for use with M13s.

Quote
Huha, I'm getting this message (Firefox) trying to access your wiki entry

I think this happens due to the > in the title. I asked iMav to rename it, it should work fine then.

-huha
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: keyb_gr on Sat, 16 May 2009, 05:45:29: Quote from: ripster;91067
BTW - are these dongles all safe for hotplugging?
I'd always use the USB side for that if possible.
Quote
I remember warnings about blowing the PS/2 electronics on your motherboard but I never had it happen.
Self-resetting fuses ftw. I have accidentally pulled PS/2 'boards a few times and nothing bad happened, but plugging in during operation I'd rather not try. I would guess that the shield (normally grounded) usually makes contact first and thus prevents anything bad from happening, but still I'd rather be safe than sorry.

(Speaking of fuses, some German car manufacturers have apparently managed to put these in the ground return rather than the battery voltage (+12V) path, with some funny side effects when one blows. So much for quality engineering work.)
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: cchan on Sat, 16 May 2009, 06:11:35: I hotplug PS/2 keyboards and mouses all the time with no ill effects.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: genegold on Fri, 12 June 2009, 23:44:34: I don't think these dual adapters were mentioned, tho I can't attest how well they work with Model M's (I've found monoprice sells good cables, at least, and shipping is really cheap):

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10404&cs_id=1040401&p_id=173&seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10404&cs_id=1040401&p_id=3707&seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10404&cs_id=1040401&p_id=2083&seq=1&format=2
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: genegold on Sat, 13 June 2009, 00:57:56: Quote from: ripster;95906
The first one someone else here had. The others don't get good reviews even at Monoprice.

Blue Cube all the way - why settle for something untested to save a couple of bucks?

Actually, the first one with a 94% rating by 19 users is ~$5-10 saved compared to cyberguys, depending on the method of shipping. The other two, just different colors, have been rated by only four people total, two of whom gave it four or five stars. But as I said, I haven't tried any of them; I just know Monoprice for being one of the most upstanding and customer friendly places I've dealt with (I was looking there to see if they have AT to PS/2 adapters, asked about in another thread). Those aside, I can attest that the Radio Shack version ($17.95) has been working quite well with a 1391401 - while a cube is on the way (seen before the monoprice version).
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: IBI on Sat, 13 June 2009, 05:52:36: Quote from: ripster;95915
My point is that nobody has found a configuration yet that the Blue Cube DOESN'T work in.

Actually, it appears it may not work on an SGI AT101:
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=94209&postcount=42
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: skriefal on Sat, 13 June 2009, 10:14:40: I too had a keyboard that wouldn't work with the "blue cube", but which did work with other cheap adapters (incl. the BT-1000, IIRC). It might have been my SGI AT-101, but unfortunately I don't recall for certain.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: skriefal on Sat, 13 June 2009, 10:27:38: Quote from: ripster;95966
Everybody might have to order a handful of all the different dongles out there.

This is a good choice for keyboard fanatics. The dongles are cheap if ordered from the "right" sellers (e.g. Monoprice, Dealxtreme, etc) so $20 or so is sufficient to keep your parts drawer stocked with four or five different adapters. And the "blue cube" should probably be one of them.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: CX23882 on Sat, 13 June 2009, 12:01:36: The Belkin F5U119E works quite well. My Unicomp Customizer had issues with the "blue cube" type adapter but worked almost-ok with the Belkin. Very occasionally it would suffer a stuck Shift key during gaming, but that never occured when typing normally IIRC. This was through a KVM switch too - an added complication.

I wish that I still had it so that I could test it with my SGI AT101 (with which the blue cube fails) but I sold it some time ago (either with the Unicomp board or my old KVM IIRC). The blue cube is a fairly safe bet, unless you have the SGI AT101 (the Dell AT101W works fine). My Unicomp Customizer (105-key ISO model with Windows keys) worked almost okay, but not sufficiently well to use day-to-day.

One thing to watch out for the lack of support for the additional key on ISO keyboards. I originally bought a cheap unbranded beige coloured adapter from eBay and it worked very well except for it didn't support the \ key at all. Both the Belkin and the blue cube had no issues with that. Some of them can be switched to support ISO layouts from the default ANSI by entering a special key sequence, but I could never find the commands to type in on my model.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: zwmalone on Sat, 13 June 2009, 18:19:40: Quote from: ripster;96003
That might explain the Blue Cube problems with the Unicomp. Sounded specific as well (not a QC problem) so I'm not writing ol' Blue off yet.

Here's the cheapest I found the Belkin. $21 with shipping. (http://www.buy.com/prod/belkin-usb-to-ps-2-cable-adapter-4-pin-type-a-male-usb-to-2-x-6-pin/q/loc/101/202313954.html?dcaid=15890)

Cruising Amazon reviews it doesn't sound like ANY of these dongles are 100% bulletproof. A few incompatibilities reported on the Monoprice one here. (http://www.amazon.com/Adesso-Adapter-connects-connectors-ADP-PU21/product-reviews/B00008ZPED/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar) Overall it does look like a good one to throw in your next cable order.

I have that belkin. If you're stateside, you can pick it up at your local walmart for around $16.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: IBI on Sat, 13 June 2009, 18:31:28: Quote from: ripster;96003
Cruising Amazon reviews it doesn't sound like ANY of these dongles are 100% bulletproof.

This one (http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=234729&CatId=713) looks pretty interesting, as it claims to support a wide range of ps/2 devices designed for the keyboard port it may do well with unusual keyboards. Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wasp-USBi-Keyboard-Wedge-Scanners/dp/B00009ZUGO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1244935592&sr=8-1) appear to have the same model for £25.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: huha on Sat, 13 June 2009, 18:35:17: Would the Belkin owners like to supply data for the wiki (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=PS2-to-USB+adapters)?

As for me, I lost an auction for a generic (but ISO capable, I had the seller check) adapter, so I bought three (ISO capable and not really expensive) Lindy adapters. Let's see how they'll fare.

-huha
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: nowsharing on Sun, 14 June 2009, 13:13:23: Is it possible to run two PS2 keyboards simultaneously through adapters like the Belkin PS2-USB adapter, which adapts two PS2 (mouse & keyboard) to one USB plug? This would seem to be a nice feature for geekhackers, if the adapter itself works well.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: genegold on Sun, 14 June 2009, 13:30:20: The monoprice version is being sold as for mouse and keyboard in one USB. Don't know if electrically that allows two keyboards instead, assuming the software allows it.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: IBI on Sun, 14 June 2009, 14:11:06: Quote from: nowsharing;96259
Is it possible to run two PS2 keyboards simultaneously through adapters like the Belkin PS2-USB adapter, which adapts two PS2 (mouse & keyboard) to one USB plug? This would seem to be a nice feature for geekhackers, if the adapter itself works well.

PS/2 mice ports won't support keyboards but there are a few adapters with two keyboard or two dual-purpose ports that might allow a couple of PS/2 keyboards, I guess it depends on how clever the adapter is as the PC just sees them as USB keyboards.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: zwmalone on Mon, 15 June 2009, 00:48:44: Quote from: IBI;96281
PS/2 mice ports won't support keyboards but there are a few adapters with two keyboard or two dual-purpose ports that might allow a couple of PS/2 keyboards, I guess it depends on how clever the adapter is as the PC just sees them as USB keyboards.

In linux they can... I'm driving my Datalux in my mouse port and my omnikey in my keyboard port... I can check tomorrow to see if the belkin will do the same under linux...
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: IBI on Mon, 15 June 2009, 11:32:52: Quote from: ripster;96432
IBM spent a lot of time writing that PS/2 spec and color coding the whole thing and you Linux guys can't resist breaking everything.

Actually, it was Intel and Microsoft who came up with the colour coding in 1997 so you can't really expect them to resist breaking that.
Title: A keyboard for each hand
Post by: nowsharing on Mon, 15 June 2009, 13:26:52: Quote
In linux they can...

More reasons to love linux. I'm running Mint Linux alongside Vista (bipolar much?), and will probably put eeebuntu on my netbook.

I bought a Belkin adapter on ebay for $5 shipped a few weeks back; I'll have access to it and 2 ps2 keyboards in late July, and will post my results.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: zwmalone on Mon, 15 June 2009, 20:03:59: The Belkin is confirmed working under linux 2.6.28-11-generic with 2 PS/2 keyboards
Title: UK eBay seller of "blue cube" ps/2-USB adapter
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 15 June 2009, 20:30:45: Item 330336307327 USB A Male to PS/2 Female PS2 Active Keyboard Adapter £5.48
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=330336307327

Just ordered one. I think I have some 2xPS/2 to USB convertors somewhere, but I may have left them at a former workplace. Never give your employer stuff, they won't thank you and one day you'll need it!
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: nowsharing on Tue, 16 June 2009, 07:24:07: Quote
Is that when you're coming to the US?
That's when my friends arrive here with an i-rocks kr-6230 and a space-saver. I'll post the low-down on those in early August. I will have many write-ups and pics coming in Dec, when I'm back in the states for a month.

Quote
The Belkin is confirmed working under linux 2.6.28-11-generic with 2 PS/2 keyboards

:cheer2: linux :cheer2:
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: CX23882 on Mon, 22 June 2009, 15:49:21: I've been heavily using the "blue cube" with a Dell AT101W for a couple of days and so far it's been flawless. I haven't seen a single double, stuck or missed key-press.

The blue cube has serious issues with my SGI AT101, but perhaps there is a fault with the keyboard itself, I need to test it directly with another PC to know for sure.

As for the Belkin one - it worked reasonably well with the problematic Unicomp Customizer 105 (which didn't work with the blue cube reliably) except it would suffer from stuck CTRL or SHIFT keys (can't remember which). It never occured when typing but it did happen when gaming, presumably due to having the keys held.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: Special K on Mon, 13 July 2009, 01:37:36: Quote from: ripster;95915
As long as you're getting the Blue Cube I'm happy.

My point is that nobody has found a configuration yet that the Blue Cube DOESN'T work in. Buy a handful and amortize that shipping. Model M's - nobody just buys one.
Plus, it's by far the best looking of the bunch.

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2442&d=1242399819)

And if someone finds a cheap international source (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=90833&postcount=39) I'll even be happier.

So do you just keep one of the blue cubes attached to each of your PS/2 keyboards? It seems like you could get by with just one blue cube, given that there's no reason to have more than one keyboard plugged into your system at a time. Just pull off the blue cube and put it on a different keyboard whenever you want to switch.

I suppose the usefulness of having multiple blue cubes depends on how often you switch keyboards, and how much it bothers you to move the adapter from one keyboard to another.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: Special K on Mon, 13 July 2009, 11:22:16: Quote from: Manyak;90970
By the way, I found the best solution.

Link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815150153).
Show Image
(http://c1.neweggimages.com/productimage/15-150-153-01.jpg)

It's a direct hardware connection for your keyboard, so you don't get a repeat rate delay or a limit to your rollover (I know I do with mine at least).

Now if only PCs still had ISA slots, then we could get true native PS/2 cards.

Isn't the rollover limit a function of the keyboard's circuitry/layout and not the port itself?

Also that newegg review said you can't use the keyboard in the BIOS through that adapter.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: Special K on Mon, 13 July 2009, 11:23:28: Also another quick question - if I plug the blue cube into a USB port, will it block any neighboring USB ports on either side?
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: DrunkenDonut on Mon, 13 July 2009, 13:34:01: I have a 6" version of that cable. It's quite handy for blue cubes and some fat USB flash drives when you have to cram them into small spaces. I wish I had a couple more.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 13 July 2009, 13:47:34: Quote from: DrunkenDonut;102394
I have a 6" version of that cable. It's quite handy for blue cubes and some fat USB flash drives when you have to cram them into small spaces. I wish I had a couple more.

I bought a bunch of them, around 18" I think, they are also great for hard to reach USB ports, e.g. back of PCs under desks or even screens with built-in USB hubs.
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: DrunkenDonut on Mon, 13 July 2009, 16:53:52: Oh yeah, I forgot about that.. I have a few ports and a card reader on the backside of my screen which I never use. I guess one day I could plug it in. :D
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: Hazelesque on Mon, 23 November 2009, 09:42:18: I noticed that there didn't seem to be any mention in this thread of a UK supplier of the Blue Cube PS/2-USB signal converter, so I thought I would share this with you.

Videk appear to sell the same part under the part code 2482E, both directly and through the resellers Insight UK, PC World Business and MicroWarehouse, at a price varying from 8 to 15 GBP. Links at the bottom of this post.

I have asked the departmental sysadmins to order one for me, and we shall see if it is indeed the same part, and how well it works. I shall report back when I have first-hand experience.

Kind Regards

Hazel

Links:

http://www.videkonline.co.uk/pages/SubSections.aspx?ChapterID=1&SectionID=10#2482E

http://uk.insight.com/apps/productpresentation/index.php?product_id=VDK2482E

http://www.pcwb.co.uk/catalogue/item/VIDUSB57

http://www.microwarehouse.co.uk/catalogue/item/VIDUSB57
Title: THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!
Post by: J888www on Mon, 23 November 2009, 11:10:20: Videkonline.co.uk is about the cheapest retailer selling the Blue Cube in UK or Europe. I purchased two, its exactly the same as from ClickyKeyboards. You also receive a nice email thanking you for purchasing their product from a Karen Buckle, I wonder if she's chuffed that I just plastered her identity on this site.