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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: spuriousgeorge on Mon, 03 February 2014, 13:43:48

Title: KMAC Question
Post by: spuriousgeorge on Mon, 03 February 2014, 13:43:48: So I've seen a number of KMACs in the classifieds, and they look like very nice keyboards, but I get hung up on some of the terminology used to describe them. What does it mean for a keyboard to be "lubed and stickered"?

I tried a Geekhack search and a Google search; no luck.
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 03 February 2014, 13:46:19: This isn't exclusive to KMAC's, lots of people who build custom keyboards lube and sticker them.

Stickers are little, well, stickers that you put in between the switches after you open them up. They are supposed to help keep the switches more stable according to some, but most people do it for looks.

Lubing switches is the same thing, you can lubricate the friction points inside the switch to make the switch more smooth.

EDIT:

Stickers
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48691.0

Lube Guide
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34332.0
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: Wildcard on Mon, 03 February 2014, 13:47:09: They are more assembly terms, and not unique to just the KMAC.

The stickers sit between the MX switch housing

Picture provided by Sixty at DT

(http://i.imgur.com/USFg0.jpg)

The idea is that it offers sound dampening and makes the switch feel tighter.

"Lubed" is a term to describe lubing the springs and sliders to reduce friction in the switch.
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 03 February 2014, 14:09:11: Stickered is total BS... doesn't do jack crap...

If anything it's bad for the feel, because you DON"T want the top housing to be sturdy. having a bit of give allows the stem to tilt more, so you can hit the key -smoothly- at more angles.
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: dorkvader on Mon, 03 February 2014, 16:13:53: Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 03 February 2014, 14:09:11
Stickered is total BS... doesn't do jack crap...

If anything it's bad for the feel, because you DON"T want the top housing to be sturdy. having a bit of give allows the stem to tilt more, so you can hit the key -smoothly- at more angles.
Hence the lube.

I'm pretty sure the addition of lube at friction points decreases total friction, even with a sticker. Some people don't like wobbly switches (me: one reason I don't like some (most?) alps) so the sticker (might) help there.

That said, I'm not convinced the sticker does anything. I plan to use them on an upcoming KB build where I'll also be using the clear switch housings, so you can see the stickers purely for aesthetic appeal.
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 03 February 2014, 16:16:45: I remember reading somewhere that stickers might help in the long run by keeping more dust out of switch housings. I'm not so sure though…
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 03 February 2014, 16:23:32: Quote from: dorkvader on Mon, 03 February 2014, 16:13:53
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 03 February 2014, 14:09:11
Stickered is total BS... doesn't do jack crap...

If anything it's bad for the feel, because you DON"T want the top housing to be sturdy. having a bit of give allows the stem to tilt more, so you can hit the key -smoothly- at more angles.
Hence the lube.

I'm pretty sure the addition of lube at friction points decreases total friction, even with a sticker. Some people don't like wobbly switches (me: one reason I don't like some (most?) alps) so the sticker (might) help there.

That said, I'm not convinced the sticker does anything. I plan to use them on an upcoming KB build where I'll also be using the clear switch housings, so you can see the stickers purely for aesthetic appeal.
That is what I did, I had stickered a past board though with black stickers because I thought I might as well if I was taking them apart.

Stickering with clear tops looks amazing imo
Here is mine
More
(http://cdn.overclock.net/a/a3/680x680px-LL-a3f22e6e_DSC_1002.jpeg)
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 03 February 2014, 17:03:03: **** stickers. Unless I find a nixdorf to strip for the tops. #noaftermartket

EDIT: EXCEPT GOLD SPRINGS>>
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 03 February 2014, 17:25:56: that stickered nixdorf feel
(http://i.imgur.com/Kj9UxsL.jpg)
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 03 February 2014, 17:26:14: Quote from: Photekq on Mon, 03 February 2014, 17:25:56
that stickered nixdorf feel
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Kj9UxsL.jpg)

RIP :(

Zoomed out it looks like the switches are completely transparent and showing your wood. (hhehe)
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 03 February 2014, 17:36:00: Quote from: Sifo on Mon, 03 February 2014, 17:26:14
RIP :(
RIP indeed.. I'm 99% sure the PCB they were meant to go on is dead.. but the glorious nixdorfs will be put on another board sometime in the future.
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: spuriousgeorge on Mon, 03 February 2014, 20:10:27: Thanks for the thorough and entertaining responses, you guys!

So Wildcard, in your post, is the sticker the thing that looks like a red decal?

And Photekq, in yours, is the sticker the little orange thing toward the base of each switch?
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 03 February 2014, 20:12:00: Quote from: spuriousgeorge on Mon, 03 February 2014, 20:10:27
Thanks for the thorough and entertaining responses, you guys!

So Wildcard, in your post, is the sticker the thing that looks like a red decal?

And Photekq, in yours, is the sticker the little orange thing toward the base of each switch?
Yes, and in my pic it is the green thing.
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: 1pq on Mon, 03 February 2014, 20:13:14: They're the same. In photekq's picture, the housing tops are attached. His is also particularly cool because you can see the switch color through the clear nixdorf housings.
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 03 February 2014, 20:13:24: Quote from: spuriousgeorge on Mon, 03 February 2014, 20:10:27
Thanks for the thorough and entertaining responses, you guys!

So Wildcard, in your post, is the sticker the thing that looks like a red decal?

And Photekq, in yours, is the sticker the little orange thing toward the base of each switch?
Yes. The orange thing is the sticker :)
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: spuriousgeorge on Mon, 03 February 2014, 20:19:13: I gather from these posts that the purpose of lubing is to make the switch action feel smoother, and the purpose of stickering is to make the switches feel more stable, but whether those aims are actually accomplished is up for debate.

Is it possible to do a lube-and-sticker mod on boards with any type of switch? Or just Cherry and Alps?
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: spuriousgeorge on Mon, 03 February 2014, 20:23:34: Thanks, HPE1000!

I couldn't get your links to work earlier, but I tried them a second ago, and they finally worked.

All these boards you guys are uploading are gorgeous.
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 03 February 2014, 20:30:01: Quote from: spuriousgeorge on Mon, 03 February 2014, 20:19:13
I gather from these posts that the purpose of lubing is to make the switch action feel smoother, and the purpose of stickering is to make the switches feel more stable, but whether those aims are actually accomplished is up for debate.

Is it possible to do a lube-and-sticker mod on boards with any type of switch? Or just Cherry and Alps?
Lubing DOES work. That is absolutely not up for debate. Lubing some switches (such as MX blues) is generally advised against due to the way the mechanism works, but lubing linear & tactile switches like MX blacks or clears does make a noticeable difference. I'm not too sure about switches other than Cherry and alps.

Stickers, imo, don't do anything. I just like their aesthetics.
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 03 February 2014, 20:35:44: My thought is that if you are opening your switches in the first place, why not sticker. But it is not worth it to take apart switches just to sticker them.
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: spuriousgeorge on Mon, 03 February 2014, 22:28:17: I think I've got it now.

Lube is definitely helpful.

Stickers are maybe helpful, maybe not. But either way they look cool. ;D
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: spuriousgeorge on Tue, 04 February 2014, 15:33:20: I asked whether stickers were used on any boards that weren't equipped with Cherry or Alps switches, but on further consideration, I think stickers might be Cherry only.

Am I right about that?

Or does anyone out there sticker boards with other switch types?
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 04 February 2014, 16:06:58: Only for cherry.
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 04 February 2014, 16:28:28: Quote from: spuriousgeorge on Mon, 03 February 2014, 22:28:17
I think I've got it now.

Lube is definitely helpful.

Stickers are maybe helpful, maybe not. But either way they look cool. ;D

with well used (broken in) switches.. the lube doesn't really make that big a difference either...

it's fun to do I suppose, and harmless for the most part.. so.. if you got the time.. why not.. but... it's nothing super-serious like for example ergo-clear... where the difference is night and day..
Title: Re: KMAC Question
Post by: spuriousgeorge on Tue, 04 February 2014, 21:41:27: Okay, cool. I figured they were only for Cherry but wasn't sure.