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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: NateS on Thu, 06 February 2014, 14:01:34

Title: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: NateS on Thu, 06 February 2014, 14:01:34
I'm sick of this Microsoft Comfort Curve 3000, it's mushy keys and crazy rattles. I'm a programmer and work on my own business ~12 hours/day. I live in Croatia, so it is difficult/impossible to try anything out locally, but I've been a good boy and did my homework on el innertubes. I want TKL and am pretty sure I would love either Cherry MX brown w/ o-rings OR Topre switches. I know all the details about both and you do too, so I'll explain my personal dilemma.

Topre seems perfect, especially since I code all day and night. The only Topre option for me (I needs ANSI arrow keys!) is the Realforce 87U (not sure: normal, silent, or EK). The downsides are not extreme at all, but they are: 1) Labels are quite dark. I don't look down a lot, but sometimes I do. 2) I'd like to customize the key colors, eg I'd like A-Z to be different. There seems to be very little selection, unless I want Japanese keys (I don't). 3) The spacebar (the most used key...) is not PBT.

There are many more options for the MX browns. I love the Filco Ninja labels, so sad they are ABS. I could get a Filco and then customize it with o-rings and whatever color PBT caps I like.

Right, so I'm stressing over things that aren't so important, but must be decided so I can place an order, and hopefully avoid buyer's remorse. Your thoughts are welcome!
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: snoopy on Thu, 06 February 2014, 14:04:45
Topre!

(mx brown feel scratchy and cheap compared to topre)
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: ricercar on Thu, 06 February 2014, 14:18:04
If you're like many of us you will eventually own both. Consider your current finances and decide which one is appropriate to buy first.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Wildcard on Thu, 06 February 2014, 14:19:56
Just buy a good Topre board and save yourself the time and effort :thumb:
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 06 February 2014, 14:22:10
Topre!

(mx brown feel scratchy and cheap compared to topre)

Topre feel squishy compared to MX Browns and you can't hover around the actuation point like you can with Browns... YMMV.

MX switches can be modded easily and the keycap options are almost endless. You can even get sideprinted (Ninja) PBT sets:

http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments/item/pbt-key-caps/104-105-pbt-white-side-printed/lid=19686618

http://www.ebay.com/itm/37PBT-Plus-thick-Single-color-Key-caps-for-MX-Cherry-Switches-Side-printed-/300997693802?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item4614dc516a

http://www.ebay.com/itm/37key-PBT-Rainbow-Key-caps-side-printed-for-all-MX-Switch-keyboards-Razor-Ros-/181306135783?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2a36b014e7
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: quickcrx702 on Thu, 06 February 2014, 14:33:30
Topre!

(mx brown feel scratchy and cheap compared to topre)

Non-55g Topre feel squishy compared to MX Browns...
 
Edited your post.  I'd say skip the 45g or variable.  Also, MX brown only feels scratchy when you type slowly and gently.  Otherwise they almost feel linear and the tactile bump is barely noticeable, but it still feels great.  What it is not, contrary to popular belief, is a silent MX blue.  Out of the choices, I'd say the 55g is a better board, but the MX brown would be much easier to customize.  Which is more important to you?
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: tbc on Thu, 06 February 2014, 14:37:28
^ this.  except for the part where it feels great.  ever.

brown is a compromise switch; it's only useful if you like to type gently or if you enjoy the feeling of bottoming out.

on browns, you 'listen' for the bump (the bump is only there if you're looking for it). on blues, the bump 'alerts' you (you don't have to divert ANY attention to notice the bump - much more passive than browns)
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Danule on Thu, 06 February 2014, 16:16:15
both are very nice, personally for typing I prefer Topre and for gaming I use browns.

Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: NateS on Thu, 06 February 2014, 16:28:52
Thanks for the help (and emotional support). :) I've decided to pull the trigger on the 45g Topre! Now the waiting begins.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 06 February 2014, 19:46:46
If you go topre, wait out for the Cm nova touch. I think the type heaven is $150. So it's as much as a mx brown board. Some swear by them too.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Macsmasher on Thu, 06 February 2014, 19:49:01
Good choice. If you like browns, the 55g would be too stiff. I have an 87U 55g, a silent variable and an HHKB Pro2 with 45g switches. The 55g is a bit too stiff for extended typing sessions.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: quickcrx702 on Thu, 06 February 2014, 19:53:23
Thanks for the help (and emotional support). :) I've decided to pull the trigger on the 45g Topre! Now the waiting begins.
If it hasn't been shipped yet ask if you can change the order to a 55g.  The 45g feels like a very fancy rubber dome.  They are nice, but they have to grow on you for many people.  The 55g, on the other hand feels nothing like a rubber dome(even though it's also just very fancy rubber).  I'm pretty sure you will like it from day one.  If not and it's too late, I hope you enjoy the keyboard.  Keep us posted!
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Macsmasher on Thu, 06 February 2014, 21:43:56
Thanks for the help (and emotional support). :) I've decided to pull the trigger on the 45g Topre! Now the waiting begins.
If it hasn't been shipped yet ask if you can change the order to a 55g.  The 45g feels like a very fancy rubber dome.  They are nice, but they have to grow on you for many people.  The 55g, on the other hand feels nothing like a rubber dome(even though it's also just very fancy rubber).  I'm pretty sure you will like it from day one.  If not and it's too late, I hope you enjoy the keyboard.  Keep us posted!

I love my 55g 87U. And don't hate me for this, but I also really enjoy my variable silent. I find it very tactile, provided you use a softer typing style. If you're a heavy typist, you won't feel the tactility. I already said this in another post, but I think the reason...for me...is Colemak. A softer typing style fits Colemak because your fingers are resting on or right above the keys you need much of the time. And...I'm older that dirt.

I tend to code on my 55g, simply because there're a lot of shortcut key combinations and code navigation. However, If I am doing a lot of text typing, I'll switch to a lighter switch.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: gh_pp on Thu, 06 February 2014, 21:51:43
once you mod mx-brown with thick keycaps, i'd give the edge to mx-brown (my favorite mx switch)

topre is very nice but it really debounce slower. some people said 55g is better but i like light switch.

the thin pbt cap is pretty good but it being the only game in town is  its weakness ( want thick cap)

let's see how good the novatouch is. although to meet realforce's build quality is a tall order (made in japan)

Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Sniping on Thu, 06 February 2014, 22:50:23
If you go topre, wait out for the Cm nova touch. I think the type heaven is $150. So it's as much as a mx brown board. Some swear by them too.

I wouldn't wait 4 months to save $50. You'll end up spending another $100 on a keycap set anyway.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: quickcrx702 on Fri, 07 February 2014, 01:08:04
Thanks for the help (and emotional support). :) I've decided to pull the trigger on the 45g Topre! Now the waiting begins.
If it hasn't been shipped yet ask if you can change the order to a 55g.  The 45g feels like a very fancy rubber dome.  They are nice, but they have to grow on you for many people.  The 55g, on the other hand feels nothing like a rubber dome(even though it's also just very fancy rubber).  I'm pretty sure you will like it from day one.  If not and it's too late, I hope you enjoy the keyboard.  Keep us posted!

I love my 55g 87U. And don't hate me for this, but I also really enjoy my variable silent. I find it very tactile, provided you use a softer typing style. If you're a heavy typist, you won't feel the tactility. I already said this in another post, but I think the reason...for me...is Colemak. A softer typing style fits Colemak because your fingers are resting on or right above the keys you need much of the time. And...I'm older that dirt.

I tend to code on my 55g, simply because there're a lot of shortcut key combinations and code navigation. However, If I am doing a lot of text typing, I'll switch to a lighter switch.

No hating here.  I mash on my keys like a gorilla, which is probably why I can't get past 80WPM, though I don't really practice other than what I type on a daily basis.  Every now and then, probably a couple times per year, I'll go on a typing website to get an idea of my speed.  I don't really work on honing my skills, just getting a benchmark to satisfy my own curiosity.  That's also why I don't really feel the tactility on the 45g, or switches like MX brown.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: atlas3686 on Fri, 07 February 2014, 01:36:00
Go Topre, I have Filco (browns) with side printed PBT keys and I still far prefer my Topre boards. Browns do feel scratchy and cheap compared to Topre. Just my opinion but the black on black realforce keys are pretty sexy and at least if you need legends they are there.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: tuxsavvy on Fri, 07 February 2014, 08:53:15
I have both Cherry MX brown (via Cherry ErgoPlus) and Topre 45g via HHKB Pro JP.

If you are keen on colour ranges, Cherry would be the way to go. Topre seems to be much restrictive in this area despite mostly boasting quality keycaps. If you want PBT, I believe you might also want to look at Ducky for instance whom does make PBT keycaps for a few select models. Albeit the colour range for now seems minimal and that they are also using Cherry MX switches.

The one thing definitive about Topre is the feel with bump before a quick drop in the amount of force required before bottoming out. The Cherry keyboard I have here is quite old so I cannot do a decent comparison without counting in what one has said before. Something like Cherry MX switch softens over time but Topre switch hardens over time. Although regardless of whichever way these switches go, the variances I guess are only slightly at that. That and the fact that Topre (at least for HHKB) are rated at a minimum of 30 million keypresses/actuation unlike Cherry MX which are rated at a minimum 50 million keypresses/actuation. This maybe an issue if reliability may seem important to you I guess.

As others have pointed out before, you could wait for Cooler Master for them to have those Novatouch switches available and possibly harvest the sliders from there. In either case you will be voiding any applicable warranty on Realforce keyboard I guess.

If being more ergonomical is a must I would suggest the idea of those Topre Realforce variable weights. They are not particularly well suited for gaming but I think in some ways it might be for long hours of typing.


Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 07 February 2014, 11:21:51
I always recommend to just jump right into Topre. Most people don't regret it, and those that do can often sell their board back to the community fairly easily for low losses. I love my Topre boards and cannot stand MX Browns, but I also love Ergo Clears. Topre > Ergo Clears > All (Except legit Blue Alps. Such smooth, very click, wow.)
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: fuzzybaffy on Fri, 07 February 2014, 18:49:22
I had a Topre all-45g board for over a year, and just a couple of weeks ago, purchased a Filco MJ2 with MX Browns.

It seems you already made up your mind, but I'd just like to put in my 2 cents for other readers...

One of the most often-heard criticisms of MX Brown switches is that they feel "scratchy", but honestly, when I put on a set of PBT's on my MX Browns, they felt MUCH better. They still feel scratchy - that's the nature of the stem, of course - but the PBT keycaps give them a much more solid/consistent feel. Whereas with the ABS, as others have mentioned, the switches feel kind of messy.

That said, IF I PUT ON A SET OF PBT's on the Filco MJ2, they come pretty close to Topre. But if you do buy a set of them (at least dye-sub, which is what I got) for the Filco, they're actually MORE expensive ($150 + $100) than a Topre board ($220 to $250 at EK), so, really... it's hard to say that Topre's are "overpriced" or a "rip-off" compared to other boards. It's apparent that what makes Topre boards so expensive are the PBT dye-subs, and given that a set of dye-sub PBTs for MX switches cost $100, I really have no problem with the price I paid for the Topre board. 

But comparing a Filco MJ2 with PBTs, and a Topre Realforce, in terms of BUILD QUALITY, I have to give the edge to the Realforce. The board is just an absolute beast, and does not flex, while the Filco I can still flex just a bit. And then the keycaps... yes, even though I've put on a set of dye-sub PBTs on the Filco MJ2, those PBTs are NOT the same as the PBTs on Topre Realforces. Now that I've had a chance to buy "other" PBTs (the one's I got for my Filco), I really have to say, the Realforce PBTs are absolutely fantastic. The PBTs on my Filco seem cheap and thin in comparison (yet they go for $100)!

But as for positives to the MX Brown switch over Topre, what I really love about MX Brown switches is that they are much easier to press than Topre switches. Yes, the actuation force might be the same, but I think Ripster (was it?) always made a distinction between "actuation force", and "work". Supposedly, IIRC, that while the actuation force of the switches may be the same, the "work" required to press on them are different, and that may be what I'm feeling now. I'll have to guess that it has something to do with the fact that Topre switch tactility points are solely at the top, whereas with the MX Brown switch, you slide down the switch first, and then feel the tactility as you travel down. I just love how easy it is to press on MX Brown switches, I really do.

Does it mean that I LIKE the MX Brown switches more than Topre switches? Not necessarily. I've, again, owned the Filco for just a couple of weeks, so I can't really make that judgment yet. If there is one thing that I dislike about MX Brown switches is that it's changed my typing form. I don't know how to explain it exactly, but I'm seeing that my hands are figured differently than they are when typing on the Topre board, and I think my Topre form is slightly more comfortable. I may see (this is not a definite) issues with typing on my MX Browns for long periods of time in the future.

So, there you have it. In terms of value, they are pretty neck and neck - maybe a slight edge to Topre because of build quality. In terms of build/switch quality, I give the CLEAR edge to Topre. In terms of subjective "which keyboard do I personally like?", it's a TBD at the moment.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: NateS on Fri, 07 February 2014, 20:01:02
I've read all the input here, as well as all over these forums and the Internet. It's so hard to make decisions sight unseen, but here I am in eastern Europe. :) I considered literally every option. I think you guys are right, that I would regret if I went with the browns. All the hype and then for me to not find out just wouldn't work. I think the Topre all 45s will do it for me. I'm used to really, really terrible domes after all. I game but not a lot, so I don't think the variable is a good idea(aaaaaa ;)). I thought long and hard on the 55s, but I am literally at the keyboard 12+ hours/day and worry I would get fatigued.

I'm a bit sad about losing customization, but I got yellow WASD just to see if I like it. I hope the black legends don't bother me. I wonder, why doesn't EK stock the white and gray PBT caps from the white RF? I'd love white modifiers and gray non-A-Z keys, or even just gray WSAD. Give me some options, pretty please!?  :mad:

So now I wait. It'll get stopped in customs and I'll pay another 50% I'm sure. I'll post my thoughts when it comes!
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: quickcrx702 on Fri, 07 February 2014, 20:22:45
The 55g is still going to be lighter than many rubber domes.  A lot of rubber domes are 65g+.  If your current keyboard doesn't hurt your hands, and you are used to typing 12+ hours/day, then you should be fine.  I still think you should go big with the 55g.  Most people that try the 55g love it, even the ones who can't use it all of the time because of fatigue.  The 45g on the other hand, is hit or miss.  That's why there are so many "Thorpe" haters, because they tried the 45g or variable and it felt too much like a fancy rubber dome to them.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: reziak on Sat, 08 February 2014, 00:54:52
both are very nice, personally for typing I prefer Topre and for gaming I use browns.

I do this too! Though since becoming a Topre lover I'm starting to favor reds....I guess all that bottoming out on Topre keys made me start bottoming out with reds, and they feel great to me now O.O
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: aref on Sun, 09 February 2014, 11:14:18
I've had the 45- and 55-gram Topre swiches on my Realforce KBs. I prefer the 55-gram. It's a completely different feel from any of Cherry's switches. I had tried keyboards with MX Brown switches--no joy for me and Cherry switches cannot favorably compare with Topre switches (note: I've not tried the MX Clear, but have tried all the other Cherry switches, as I'm sure many here have). Two friends have Realforce variable Topre switches and have grown to dislike non-uniform key feel. The 45-gram Topre is probably closes to the MX Brown, but the feel is different, far better. However, the 55-gram has a very nice feel and, unless you're a slightly firmer touch-typist, will help prevent accidental key strikes. I prefer the 55-gram Topre in the 87U; however, this is a matter of personal preference.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: dante on Sun, 09 February 2014, 11:56:51
I've never felt a scratchy tactile Cherry switch.  It's always the Linear ones that turn you into a DJ.

Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Roibhilin on Sun, 09 February 2014, 12:34:34
hhkb fanboys inbound
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Linkbane on Sun, 09 February 2014, 14:43:34
The 'scratchy' thing is very subjective, I personally don't feel it at all on Blue switches, and I have a Brown board and it feels different from my Topre 45g. The Topre definitely has a rubber dome-esque bottoming out feeling, which is cushy and soft. The Brown feels like the tactility is much more purposeful; it's a sharper, more obvious sensation. Also note that with a Topre, it's very difficult to not bottom-out, whereas it's easy enough on a Cherry board.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: dante on Sun, 09 February 2014, 15:14:05
come on DJ!

Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Laser on Sun, 09 February 2014, 15:28:08

From the title of the thread, i believe you actually lean toward the topre:

"T(h)orn"

:P
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: aref on Sun, 09 February 2014, 16:54:08
I agree with Fuzzybaffy about a difference in how one configures one's hands when using a Filco, CMQFR, Leopold, and the like when compared with a Realforce/Topre keyboard. I find the Realforce to be much more comfortable for typing, I don't game, so I can't comment on gaming on either KB. The other contemporary tenkeyless keyboards require a slightly different position for one's hands. The feel between the two keyboards is noticeable. For me, an 87U feels much more comfortable and more efficient. I'm less likely to make typing errors when using my Realforce. Those other keyboards' layouts, standard as they are in that series, feel too compact for me.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: SonicRevolution on Mon, 10 February 2014, 18:39:52
umm Topre! :D
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: FinancialWar on Mon, 10 February 2014, 19:06:12
How can someone be torn between Topre and MX? That's like saying you can't choose between fake boobs and real ones.

One feel mushy and silicon, one feel tactile and responsive.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Polymer on Mon, 10 February 2014, 19:42:53
You obviously have never felt real and fake ones before...

Topre is far from mushy...it is one of the things that makes it different from a normal rubber dome.  Because of the plunger+dome design, the bottom out of a Topre is solid but organic...The keypresses are incredibly stable (more so than Cherry mx) and incredibly smooth.  It also feels far more responsive than normal rubber domes because it doesn't require you to bottom for actuation.

I can see where your ignorance comes from though..people that haven't given it more than a few days won't really see the difference...When I first tried Topre I didn't think they were that different from normal rubber dome keyboards..they felt a little better but still no big deal.  It is only after using it for a bit more that I started to see the differences and how much more I liked using it over my Cherry boards...
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: FinancialWar on Mon, 10 February 2014, 20:36:31
please... ever heard of "models and bottles"?
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: C5Allroad on Mon, 10 February 2014, 20:41:15
I was told that topre was much, much smoother.... Browns, sure they feel nice, but they are very hard to describe how the scratch feels... Imagine half a grain of rice on reds.... That's the best way I can describe them... As for topre I'm looking to buy a board also...
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: pbtforever on Tue, 11 February 2014, 01:55:32
Topre.  PBT keys are great!
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Wildcard on Tue, 11 February 2014, 02:04:50
Topre.  PBT keys are great!

Just remember, not all Topre boards have PBT (TypeHeaven has ABS as an example). But yes PBT keys are great :)
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Emospence on Tue, 11 February 2014, 03:10:46
Topre!

(mx brown feel scratchy and cheap compared to topre)

+1
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 11 February 2014, 05:18:12
Topre.  PBT keys are great!

MX Browns. THICK PBT keycaps are better!
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: pbtforever on Tue, 11 February 2014, 10:36:13
hhkb fanboys inbound

Reporting in!
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: yasuo on Tue, 11 February 2014, 10:40:54
How can someone be torn between Topre and MX? That's like saying you can't choose between fake boobs and real ones.

One feel mushy and silicon, one feel tactile and responsive.
different :-X plastic v rubber i think rubber better than plastic but matias maybe diffrent again :p
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: atlas3686 on Tue, 11 March 2014, 08:57:58
Topre!

(mx brown feel scratchy and cheap compared to topre)

+1

+1
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: daerid on Tue, 11 March 2014, 09:25:32
Topre. 55g to be exact.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: RESPRiT on Tue, 11 March 2014, 09:48:35
My personal favorite Cherry switch are browns, but when I tried (and later bought) Topre, it kind of blew browns out of the water. I think that if you like browns, then you'll really like Topre. The only thing Topre doesn't really perform greatly in is gaming, but besides that I see them as a direct upgrade from browns.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: NateS on Tue, 11 March 2014, 10:48:37
I got my all 45g Topre. :) As expect, the dark keys bothered me and still bother me a bit after ~2 weeks. I ordered red keys from taobao, so that should help. The keys themselves feel great! They are easier to press than my old rubber domes, but I only know that because sometimes I rest my fingers on the keys and get a repeating character. A fellow forum member sent me some very thin rubber rings and I installed them all. While I had it open I also lubed all the keys with EK's Mech Lube 2. It's quite a bit quieter now, and it was pretty quiet to being with. I'm still adjusting to the non-curved layout of my old board, but with the straight layout it's much easier to predict where keys are after lifting and replacing my hands. My WPM has dropped a bit as a result ~75 from ~85, but I expect it will improve with time.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: irendulic on Tue, 11 March 2014, 10:50:51
A fellow Croatian! :)

I was in a similar dilemma, ended up going for browns for three reasons:
1. Topres are about double the price
2. Expensive used keyboards don't sell well in Croatia (HHKB pro2 sold for 90$ in December, guy paid 400+$ for it).
3. I couldn't try out Topre before purchasing.

There's also the keycaps issue, but that isn't as important for me.
And I know you'll probably pay even more for Topre one, with shipping costs and customs. I am lucky to get it directly here in the US, Leopold fc660m is on it's way :)
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: RESPRiT on Tue, 11 March 2014, 10:52:56
Does Topre give you a very deliberate feeling when you type? I think that's what sold it for me as a switch. Every key press feels very distinct and certain, while still smooth and responsive.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Schwarz on Tue, 11 March 2014, 10:55:51
Mx brown (I own both)

Topre sounds nice but feels like refined rubberdome, not that exciting to type on. Garbage for gaming.

Edit: PBT caps on both, just to be fair
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: riotonthebay on Tue, 11 March 2014, 11:15:02
I spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars trying to create the perfect MX switch for me. You can see how that turned out. (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55748.0)

Buy Topre, save yourself money.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: eth0s on Tue, 11 March 2014, 11:44:57
I spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars trying to create the perfect MX switch for me. You can see how that turned out. (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55748.0)

Buy Topre, save yourself money.

+1 to this ^.   Topre is the best choice for the OP.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: irendulic on Tue, 11 March 2014, 12:45:16
A little extreme case, just that titanium case costs like 2 cherry or more than 1 topre keyboard. And it all came down to which switches someone prefers.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: kansas city shuffle on Tue, 11 March 2014, 14:30:52
Topre, nothing quite like it once you start using it.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: riotonthebay on Tue, 11 March 2014, 17:42:21
A little extreme case, just that titanium case costs like 2 cherry or more than 1 topre keyboard. And it all came down to which switches someone prefers.

And you can't even see the "shelf liner" mod I did with hundred dollar bills.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: histevenhere on Wed, 12 March 2014, 09:39:37
Topre because of that buttery smoothness .
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: wharrislv on Fri, 14 March 2014, 16:42:06
I have and use both, for someone who doesn't care about gaming performance, the topres are much better.  I keep my brown TKL as a display piece for keycaps.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: naasfu on Fri, 14 March 2014, 16:47:16
Topre feels so much better than MX Browns, and the thock sound is wonderful.

However, if you want lots of choices for keysets, wait for the CM Novatouch as others have suggested.  Or just buy one of each.  MX Browns aren't too bad.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: aref on Fri, 14 March 2014, 17:01:40
I use a 55-gram 87U; but I also have a CMQFR with Cherry MX Blue switches I use as my alternative keyboard. If I owned one keyboard only
(may this never happens), it would be my 87U/55-gram RF. Nonetheless, I do like the sound and feel of the CMQFR with Cherry MX Blue switches.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: FinancialWar on Thu, 20 November 2014, 23:27:06
Brown!

Topre is nothing but a marketing gimmick for stupid people. It feels exactly like rubber dome.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 21 November 2014, 00:43:12
i dont have both but i have grey not really like i dont the tactile
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 21 November 2014, 09:03:38
My keyboard journey has taken me on the following progression:

IBM Model M --> IBM SSK --> IBM Model F XT --> Cherry mx (blue, green, brown, clear, black, red) --> various Alps and Matias --> HHKB Pro 2 --> RF 87ub 45g --> RF 87ub 55g.

Favorite for key action/feel: IBM Model F XT.

Favorite for form factor and layout: HHKB Pro 2.

Favorite overall: RF 87ub 55g.

I still have a WASD V2 87 with mx browns that I use mainly as a display board for my Cherry keycap collection.

I am also keeping my eye on new projects that include a Matias switch option, such as the Infinity 60 kit GB and the Matias 60 GB. While my favorite switches are IBM Model F and Topre 55g, I like Matias switches better than any Cherry mx switch.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: skuko on Fri, 21 November 2014, 09:08:41
tell you what...i just picked up my brand new RF 87uw 55g uniform from the customs office and i can honestly say that this board feels freaking awesome :)

first impression is that it's even better and more tactile feeling than the leopold FC660C.

i am literally grinning as i'm typing this...pure joy...

i can tell you that i don't like the fact that the case does not have rubber feet under the top side (F keys) so it slides slightly more that say a Filco, but that's not really an issue, just my OCD kicking in.

typing feel on this = WOW.

can't wait to take it home and try some guild wars 2 gaming on it :)

the Filco with MX browns i had and sold felt kinda "sandy" to me, a bit scratchy, like there's sand in the switches...that's probably what people mean by MX browns feeling "scratchy" or "dirty", i did not like it, but this realforce is really tactile and snappy. i'm at work at the moment and have a relatively unused rubberdome board next to it and it feels squishy and mushy, so anyone who claims that topre is just a glorified rubber dome could not be more far from the truth....well worth the money, if i should judge from my first impression :thumb:
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: saturnotaku on Fri, 21 November 2014, 09:23:51
Garbage for gaming.

Only the variable-weight Realforce is what I would put in that category. If you can make the layout work to your advantage, even the HHKB is perfectly acceptable for gaming. I tried it myself, but using the function layer has been engrained into my playing for a decade, so the layout is not ideal.

A uniform Realforce works perfectly fine for gaming. The only barrier, IMO, is the price. $170-180 used for a Realforce is not a small chunk of change when there are lots of great Cherry MX tenkeyless boards on the market for 1/2 to 2/3 the cost.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Ngt on Fri, 21 November 2014, 11:11:22
Thanks for the help (and emotional support). :) I've decided to pull the trigger on the 45g Topre! Now the waiting begins.
I love browns and I hesitate on Topre too so I'd like to know what you think of your Topre board once you'll have it.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Grim Fandango on Fri, 21 November 2014, 11:30:20
Personally, I would say that for your purposes, you should go for the switch first. Worry about aesthetics later.

The dye sub on the black 87u is so dark that unless you are in a room lit with natural light, it will be very hard to see. To me, it is similar to having blank keycaps. But there is also the beige version available, and there are keycaps sets available (they are, however, very expensive).

If noise is an issue for you at all, then I would recommend Topre. Cherry MX are much louder. Even with 40-AL o-rings my experience is that they are still a fair bit louder than normal Topre (and far louder than any silent version HHKB or Realforce).
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Freebird on Fri, 21 November 2014, 12:07:06
I loved my Poker II on browns till I got a board with topre switches...Now honestly, that Poker feels horrible in comparison. For pure typing pleasure I would say the topre. This is coming from someone using a Novatouch rather than an HHKB or a Realforce.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 21 November 2014, 15:58:23
For those who like the Novatouch better than a Cherry mx keyboard (this includes me), you may find (as I do), that a HHKB Pro 2 or Realforce is even better.

Here is my current ranking of switches:

Topre 55g ~ IBM capacitive buckling spring (Model F) > Topre 45g ~ IBM membrane buckling spring (Model M) > various Alps-type switches (white, orange, Matias tactile/click) ~ NBB Hi-Tek black or white space invaders > various Cherry mx (brown > green > red > blue > black > clear).
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: redeye on Fri, 21 November 2014, 18:29:05
I've only owned brown switched boards, flico's (ansi and iso, tkl and full), poker 2 and noppo. I was hunting for a typing sensation similar to the old IBM buckling spring boards, I wanted some resistence and a bump. I really wanted to try clear switches because I wanted something more than the brown's were offering me but didn't want to risk it spending the cash and being disappointed.

So I must admit I was curious about topre boards they sounded the bees knees. So I made the jump to the novatouch, It was a risk, I had never tried a topre switch in my life. Some people stated that it took them a while to like their topre boards but liked mine instantly. The only negative are the three noisy keys. For me this is the best keyboard I've owned, so much so that I'm willing to take it apart and try to make it better, spicebar's mod is just too tempting.

As they say though Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just to let you know I was pissed when I typed this post and it took me ages but I like using my novatouch so it was a great excuse.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: redeye on Fri, 21 November 2014, 18:31:35
Oh and by the way the "thock" can not be underestimated.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: kaiteoki on Sat, 22 November 2014, 02:58:44
Brown!

Topre is nothing but a marketing gimmick for stupid people. It feels exactly l
ike rubber dome.
sooo you're the scumbag who nerco bumped this topre thread just to bash on it. You looked for a topre thread that died about 10 months ago. Just to say it suks? Youre, oxic
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: kaiteoki on Sat, 22 November 2014, 03:04:00
Brown!

Topre is nothing but a marketing gimmick for stupid people. It feels exactly l
ike rubber dome.
sooo you're the scumbag who nerco bumped this topre thread just to bash on it. You looked for a topre thread that died about 10 months ago. Just to say it suks? Youre, toxic
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 22 November 2014, 03:05:11
Topre is nothing but a marketing gimmick for stupid people. It feels exactly l
ike rubber dome.
sooo you're the scumbag who nerco bumped this topre thread just to bash on it. You looked for a topre thread that died about 10 months ago. Just to say it suks?
If you’ve been paying any attention, 90% of FinancialWar’s posts are trolling (of the lazy and boring kind). Don’t worry about it, just ignore him.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: kaiteoki on Sat, 22 November 2014, 03:39:22
Topre rules!
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Peinful on Mon, 24 November 2014, 01:15:22
Uhm I'm not sure what a tippy feels like but I've been using my ducky shine 3 with mx browns and i love them. No regrets
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: _PixelNinja on Mon, 24 November 2014, 09:49:26
Garbage for gaming.
To each his own but I find Topre great for gaming, it just takes some getting used to coming from Cherry MX; notably if one tends to hover the keys close to the actuation point, which was my case. I know that some of the European based eSport teams sponsored by Cooler Master have been asking for Novatouches because they love the feel of Topre.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: Veridis on Wed, 26 November 2014, 00:03:00
Garbage for gaming.
To each his own but I find Topre great for gaming, it just takes some getting used to coming from Cherry MX; notably if one tends to hover the keys close to the actuation point, which was my case. I know that some of the European based eSport teams sponsored by Cooler Master have been asking for Novatouches because they love the feel of Topre.
Hi Pixel Ninja, do you remove the spring under the spacebar?

I like the stiffer spacebar for general typing, but yesterday after 2 hours of Team Fortress 2, my left thumb was cramping from jumping so much.

Took out the spring under the spacebar on the Novatouch, but now the spacebar feels easier press than normal keys because of the weight of thick PBT.
Title: Re: torn between MX brown and Topre
Post by: _PixelNinja on Wed, 26 November 2014, 08:36:55
Hi Pixel Ninja, do you remove the spring under the spacebar?

I like the stiffer spacebar for general typing, but yesterday after 2 hours of Team Fortress 2, my left thumb was cramping from jumping so much.

Took out the spring under the spacebar on the Novatouch, but now the spacebar feels easier press than normal keys because of the weight of thick PBT.
Hi there,

Affirmative; one of the first things I did when I received my unit was to remove the spring under the space bar and place O-Rings on the stabilizers since the landing felt a bit harsh. I find this configuration to give me the most uniform feel in relation to the other keys on the Novatouch. I put the spring under the Esc key.