geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: berserkfan on Wed, 12 February 2014, 09:58:34
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Ha! Found this on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GRANDTEC-FLX2000-Virtually-Indestructible-Keyboard-109-Key-layout-/370985606846?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item5660771ebe
I find it very interesting that their idea of indestructible uses the concept of Soft and yielding.
IN contrast, the IBM Model F uses the concept of Hard (and brittle) to be lasting.
Which is better? Soft or hard? I find it hard to believe that anybody would enjoy typing on the Grandtec, but in the right situations it may be somebody's ideal keyboard (eg light and lasting).
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These flexible keyboards are the bane of my existence. I had to use one when I worked as a scribe in the ER. omg. so terrible. SO BAD.
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Lol, what a joke... indestructible my ass.
Someone send me one and I'll post a video on how "indestructible" it REALLY is...
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Would you find funny to type on a rubber tire? well this is just the same, a rubber "dome", but with no domes and no caps. A board should last, but the most important part of it is how well it serves the typing purpose, longevity comes second to it. Most mechanicals, rubber domes last for years though. If you have double shot or sublimated caps legends will endure also, what is the point of a piece of rubber as input device then?
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Does it have two space bars? :P
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Inside-out character printing never wears out
what does that mean?
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Inside-out character printing never wears out
what does that mean?
Either that the letters go all the way through or that the letters are on the inside of it with all the rubber on top of it I would guess.
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It's not very indestructible when it meets something that's even remotely sharp.
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It's not very indestructible when it meets something that's even remotely sharp.
or HOT! :D
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I think that people have an often incorrect notion when it comes to strength. Things that are heavy like a Model F, when dropped, will face much greater damage than a silicon keyboard, which would be completely unaffected. When smashed with a hammer, a Model F, being metal, would have dents and permanent damage, whereas rubber, absorbing rather than breaking under force, would be more lasting. It's also more resistant to the elements and others.
It might not be stronger, but it's definitely more durable. CLIB, I welcome you to try.
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I think that people have an often incorrect notion when it comes to strength. Things that are heavy like a Model F, when dropped, will face much greater damage than a silicon keyboard, which would be completely unaffected. When smashed with a hammer, a Model F, being metal, would have dents and permanent damage, whereas rubber, absorbing rather than breaking under force, would be more lasting. It's also more resistant to the elements and others.
It might not be stronger, but it's definitely more durable. CLIB, I welcome you to try.
I'm seriously considering buying one just to destroy it... for KEYBOARD SCIENCE!
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I think that people have an often incorrect notion when it comes to strength. Things that are heavy like a Model F, when dropped, will face much greater damage than a silicon keyboard, which would be completely unaffected. When smashed with a hammer, a Model F, being metal, would have dents and permanent damage, whereas rubber, absorbing rather than breaking under force, would be more lasting. It's also more resistant to the elements and others.
It might not be stronger, but it's definitely more durable. CLIB, I welcome you to try.
I'm seriously considering buying one just to destroy it... for KEYBOARD SCIENCE!
We do not speak his name! :eek:
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I think that people have an often incorrect notion when it comes to strength. Things that are heavy like a Model F, when dropped, will face much greater damage than a silicon keyboard, which would be completely unaffected. When smashed with a hammer, a Model F, being metal, would have dents and permanent damage, whereas rubber, absorbing rather than breaking under force, would be more lasting. It's also more resistant to the elements and others.
It might not be stronger, but it's definitely more durable. CLIB, I welcome you to try.
A good blow with a decent sized hammer would still destroy this "indestructible" "keyboard". It would still cut through the rubber and very possible cut the traces. A couple years ago I was helping a journeyman with plug welding some 1/4" plate down to a "C" channel frame. He would weld the hole shut and as soon as he pulled the stinger away I was to hit the top of the weld to seat the plate to the channel. Well on the first one when he pulled the stinger away the weld lead ended up right on top of the weld. That was exactly where I hit and cut the weld lead clean in half. This was some good sized lead as well not the lighter stuff. It was bigger around than your thumb.
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it is really horrible to type on one of those. not as bad as the white imac keyboards from a few years ago but really really bad. **** everything about these boards.
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Yes.....yes....
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/c86d43aac3098355b038d5a3be2e24cb/tumblr_mzsjbfTa0N1sl21koo1_500.gif)
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but is it autoclave safe?
http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/autoclave-safe-keyboards-t7249.html
I probably have one keyboard that would still work after that. It's fully waterproofed (among other things).
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I would rather smash my head against a desk in order to type. Then to use that...
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Autoclave safe? When a PC and its periferals would be exposed to such conditions? Its like marketing a household appliance by saying that it is proof against the temperatures of reentry into the atmosphere from the outer space. Are we loosing our common sense?
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Autoclave safe? When a PC and its periferals would be exposed to such conditions? Its like marketing a household appliance by saying that it is proof against the temperatures of reentry into the atmosphere from the outer space. Are we loosing our common sense?
Keyboards in medical settings frequently have to be disinfected - consider that keyboards are one of the most contaminated surfaces in your home, then take that to a hospital where you have to deal with fun things like MRSA and prions...
Also, there's this (http://www.cortroninc.com/shock_test-2.htm) and this... (http://www.cortroninc.com/images_misc/ISS_FREEDOM-25.jpg)
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Autoclave safe? When a PC and its periferals would be exposed to such conditions? Its like marketing a household appliance by saying that it is proof against the temperatures of reentry into the atmosphere from the outer space. Are we loosing our common sense?
Keyboards in medical settings frequently have to be disinfected - consider that keyboards are one of the most contaminated surfaces in your home, then take that to a hospital where you have to deal with fun things like MRSA and prions...
Also, there's this (http://www.cortroninc.com/shock_test-2.htm) and this... (http://www.cortroninc.com/images_misc/ISS_FREEDOM-25.jpg)
Interesting. I wonder how many keyboards are sold per year in this niche market.
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This is more of my idea of an indestructible keyboard:
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This is more of my idea of an indestructible keyboard:
especially compared with the recently-replaced mouse it's being used next to.
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Who smashes his keyboard with a hammer, anyways? :-[
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Carpenters
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Carpenters
Millwrights, Ironworkers, possibly pipefitters
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I think that people have an often incorrect notion when it comes to strength. Things that are heavy like a Model F, when dropped, will face much greater damage than a silicon keyboard, which would be completely unaffected. When smashed with a hammer, a Model F, being metal, would have dents and permanent damage, whereas rubber, absorbing rather than breaking under force, would be more lasting. It's also more resistant to the elements and others.
It might not be stronger, but it's definitely more durable. CLIB, I welcome you to try.
That's exactly right.
As a Model F lover with a few screwed up Fs, I don't like keyboards with brittle casings and easy-to-pop out spacebars and easy-to-disarrange springs.
This rubber thingy may not be great to type on, but when you are on the move, or you are a reporter typing in a battle zone/ disaster zone, or in a messy environment like that ER, I suspect it is The Keyboard most suitable. Even a light Model F like the Kishsaver isn't going to be as practical and usable.
Would it be better for an astronaut to use this keyboard rather than a Topre or a Model F? I think there's little doubt that an indestructible rubber keyboard is better. No springs and hammers to get screwed up on takeoff and landing; light and saves payload, no noisy typing while you report problems to Houston, no metal behemoth to come crashing down the minute you leave orbit and reenter the atmosphere.
I don't think any Topre or buckling spring lover could survive in outer space without his favorite keyboard, though. We geeks are firmly earthbound.
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Speaking of "indestructible"... Can you guys tell me what kind of crazy board is this?
http://allegro.pl/wojskowy-monitor-z-klawiatura-drs-i3954923865.html (http://allegro.pl/wojskowy-monitor-z-klawiatura-drs-i3954923865.html)
From scraps of info found on the web I've come to a conclusion it's some sort of a KVM console for Apache! It weights ~20kg. I wonder if I should bid it... I would be surprised if it's a really simple rubber dome inside :D
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I can't see any rubber keyboard. There is no topre or mx boards either.
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Are there just ugly thinkpads on board?
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I can't see any rubber keyboard. There is no topre of mx boards either.
I'm loving the sticky notes and duck tape :D
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Forgot my notes and duck tape though. :(
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I think that people have an often incorrect notion when it comes to strength. Things that are heavy like a Model F, when dropped, will face much greater damage than a silicon keyboard, which would be completely unaffected. When smashed with a hammer, a Model F, being metal, would have dents and permanent damage, whereas rubber, absorbing rather than breaking under force, would be more lasting. It's also more resistant to the elements and others.
It might not be stronger, but it's definitely more durable. CLIB, I welcome you to try.
Even a light Model F like the Kishsaver isn't going to be as practical and usable.
Kishsaver, light? :))
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I bought one of those keyboards a long time ago thinking it was cool. This was before I even learned about mechanical keyboards. I went back to it recently and I gotta say.... I'm gonna kill myself. It's so bad. Imagine trying to carry giant blobs of jello around with just your hands without dropping it or trying to feed a fire hose that's turned on full power into a glory hole. Imagine trying to choke water. Just imagine. That's what it's like typing on this board.
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A keyboard shall be designed for your hands. Resistance? Just enough for its use.
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I'm pretty sure the model F would be more durable...
because I'd burn the other one in a fire within minutes of being forced to type on it.
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Autoclave safe? When a PC and its periferals would be exposed to such conditions? Its like marketing a household appliance by saying that it is proof against the temperatures of reentry into the atmosphere from the outer space. Are we loosing our common sense?
Keyboards in medical settings frequently have to be disinfected - consider that keyboards are one of the most contaminated surfaces in your home, then take that to a hospital where you have to deal with fun things like MRSA and prions...
Also, there's this (http://www.cortroninc.com/shock_test-2.htm) and this... (http://www.cortroninc.com/images_misc/ISS_FREEDOM-25.jpg)
Interesting. I wonder how many keyboards are sold per year in this niche market.
It may be a niche market, but it is definitely inflating your healthcare costs! Why do you think the US has the highest healthcare costs anywhere?
They probably autoclave everything, including the air you breathe, just in case some wise guy decides to file a lawsuit. Isn't the US notorious for the $2m settlement when some clumsy oaf spilled her Macdonald's Coffee on herself?
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Are there just ugly thinkpads on board?
There's no way these guys are going to use thinkpads anymore, thanks to Lenovo being a Chinese firm. I guess all US shuttles will use Dell and Apple Macs henceforth?
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I think that people have an often incorrect notion when it comes to strength. Things that are heavy like a Model F, when dropped, will face much greater damage than a silicon keyboard, which would be completely unaffected. When smashed with a hammer, a Model F, being metal, would have dents and permanent damage, whereas rubber, absorbing rather than breaking under force, would be more lasting. It's also more resistant to the elements and others.
It might not be stronger, but it's definitely more durable. CLIB, I welcome you to try.
Even a light Model F like the Kishsaver isn't going to be as practical and usable.
Kishsaver, light? :))
It's the smallest in the Model F family. Or would you prefer a MOdel F122 or a MOdel C Space Unsaver?
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Autoclave safe? When a PC and its periferals would be exposed to such conditions? Its like marketing a household appliance by saying that it is proof against the temperatures of reentry into the atmosphere from the outer space. Are we loosing our common sense?
Keyboards in medical settings frequently have to be disinfected - consider that keyboards are one of the most contaminated surfaces in your home, then take that to a hospital where you have to deal with fun things like MRSA and prions...
Also, there's this (http://www.cortroninc.com/shock_test-2.htm) and this... (http://www.cortroninc.com/images_misc/ISS_FREEDOM-25.jpg)
Interesting. I wonder how many keyboards are sold per year in this niche market.
It may be a niche market, but it is definitely inflating your healthcare costs! Why do you think the US has the highest healthcare costs anywhere?
They probably autoclave everything, including the air you breathe, just in case some wise guy decides to file a lawsuit. Isn't the US notorious for the $2m settlement when some clumsy oaf spilled her Macdonald's Coffee on herself?
I think you are slightly mistaken. The biggest reason for inflated health care costs in the US are just having to deal with insurance companies. The last figure I have heard was approximately 60% of health care cost is due to having to deal with insurance and all the coding involved. Also, to put it into perspective the air inside Intel's manufacturing facility is 9 times cleaner than a hospital operating room. This info is from a show that aired on either The Learning Channel or Discovery.
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I think that people have an often incorrect notion when it comes to strength. Things that are heavy like a Model F, when dropped, will face much greater damage than a silicon keyboard, which would be completely unaffected. When smashed with a hammer, a Model F, being metal, would have dents and permanent damage, whereas rubber, absorbing rather than breaking under force, would be more lasting. It's also more resistant to the elements and others.
It might not be stronger, but it's definitely more durable. CLIB, I welcome you to try.
Even a light Model F like the Kishsaver isn't going to be as practical and usable.
Kishsaver, light? :))
It's the smallest in the Model F family. Or would you prefer a MOdel F122 or a MOdel C Space Unsaver?
It is still 6.4 pounds, it's just funny calling that light even in comparison :P
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Autoclave safe? When a PC and its periferals would be exposed to such conditions? Its like marketing a household appliance by saying that it is proof against the temperatures of reentry into the atmosphere from the outer space. Are we loosing our common sense?
Keyboards in medical settings frequently have to be disinfected - consider that keyboards are one of the most contaminated surfaces in your home, then take that to a hospital where you have to deal with fun things like MRSA and prions...
Also, there's this (http://www.cortroninc.com/shock_test-2.htm) and this... (http://www.cortroninc.com/images_misc/ISS_FREEDOM-25.jpg)
Interesting. I wonder how many keyboards are sold per year in this niche market.
It may be a niche market, but it is definitely inflating your healthcare costs! Why do you think the US has the highest healthcare costs anywhere?
They probably autoclave everything, including the air you breathe, just in case some wise guy decides to file a lawsuit. Isn't the US notorious for the $2m settlement when some clumsy oaf spilled her Macdonald's Coffee on herself?
If you actually read more than a headline, you would know that the said person acquired second and third degree burns due to coffee being over 20 C higher than normal levels, and several surgeries were required. I also believe that she was over 50 at the time.
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No new friends no new friends no no
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Are there just ugly thinkpads on board?
There's no way these guys are going to use thinkpads anymore, thanks to Lenovo being a Chinese firm. I guess all US shuttles will use Dell and Apple Macs henceforth?
Lets see. It would be interesting to see astronauts dealing with a multitouch pad to select their reentry orbit, and waiting for a dell to cool down after some milliion cycles of running a routine to calculate rocket trust required to reposition the ship. :-X
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Even a light Model F like the Kishsaver isn't going to be as practical and usable.
Kishsaver, light? :))
It's the smallest in the Model F family. Or would you prefer a MOdel F122 or a MOdel C Space Unsaver?
the 50-key is smaller and lighter than the "kishsaver", but there is some evidence indicating there is a capacitive tenkey to be used with the 1380733 "unsaver" though I still haven't been able to find pictures. If it does exist, it would be the smallest model F IBM ever made.
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also, as parak noted before, NASA used cortronic keyboards in space. Keep in mind they do have strict weight requirements.
as far as the US company requirements, I hear they use Dell/HP primarily.
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I think that people have an often incorrect notion when it comes to strength. Things that are heavy like a Model F, when dropped, will face much greater damage than a silicon keyboard, which would be completely unaffected. When smashed with a hammer, a Model F, being metal, would have dents and permanent damage, whereas rubber, absorbing rather than breaking under force, would be more lasting. It's also more resistant to the elements and others.
It might not be stronger, but it's definitely more durable. CLIB, I welcome you to try.
Even a light Model F like the Kishsaver isn't going to be as practical and usable.
Kishsaver, light? :))
It's the smallest in the Model F family. Or would you prefer a MOdel F122 or a MOdel C Space Unsaver?
It is still 6.4 pounds, it's just funny calling that light even in comparison :P
Like many American families, this one is overweight.
Reminds me of, what was that, Honeybear or Honeybugs or that reality TV family about a child beauty queen and her family? They're nice people, but they're also terribly uneducated and all obese. They're the type of folks I'd be nice to, just because they're decent folks, but whom I'll tell my kids never to learn anything from and not to treat as role models.
That said, Model F family has got to slim down if there's a Model F revival. They take up too much horizontal space and, like Eric Cartman, have overly heavy bones.
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I think that people have an often incorrect notion when it comes to strength. Things that are heavy like a Model F, when dropped, will face much greater damage than a silicon keyboard, which would be completely unaffected. When smashed with a hammer, a Model F, being metal, would have dents and permanent damage, whereas rubber, absorbing rather than breaking under force, would be more lasting. It's also more resistant to the elements and others.
It might not be stronger, but it's definitely more durable. CLIB, I welcome you to try.
Even a light Model F like the Kishsaver isn't going to be as practical and usable.
Kishsaver, light? :))
It's the smallest in the Model F family. Or would you prefer a MOdel F122 or a MOdel C Space Unsaver?
It is still 6.4 pounds, it's just funny calling that light even in comparison :P
Like many American families, this one is overweight.
Reminds me of, what was that, Honeybear or Honeybugs or that reality TV family about a child beauty queen and her family? They're nice people, but they're also terribly uneducated and all obese. They're the type of folks I'd be nice to, just because they're decent folks, but whom I'll tell my kids never to learn anything from and not to treat as role models.
That said, Model F family has got to slim down if there's a Model F revival. They take up too much horizontal space and, like Eric Cartman, have overly heavy bones.
Yes, they are far too tall, I can't really use my model m because of that.
The show is honey boo boo :P
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It sits on your desk and you type on it. What difference does it make if it weighs 1 or 10 pounds. The one I am in the process of building is probably going to weigh in at 35 ish pounds. Why? Because I am familiar with working with said material, I was able to source it for a decent price, I have access to the tooling to work with it fully, it doesn't need any post finishing (paint/powder coat/anodizing), it is going to travel very rarely, because I can, and most of all because I haven't seen one like it yet.
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It sits on your desk and you type on it. What difference does it make if it weighs 1 or 10 pounds. The one I am in the process of building is probably going to weigh in at 35 ish pounds. Why? Because I am familiar with working with said material, I was able to source it for a decent price, I have access to the tooling to work with it fully, it doesn't need any post finishing (paint/powder coat/anodizing), it is going to travel very rarely, because I can, and most of all because I haven't seen one like it yet.
35 pounds @_@ I want that.
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It sits on your desk and you type on it. What difference does it make if it weighs 1 or 10 pounds. The one I am in the process of building is probably going to weigh in at 35 ish pounds. Why? Because I am familiar with working with said material, I was able to source it for a decent price, I have access to the tooling to work with it fully, it doesn't need any post finishing (paint/powder coat/anodizing), it is going to travel very rarely, because I can, and most of all because I haven't seen one like it yet.
35 pounds @_@ I want that.
If I get it finished by Midwest Keycon I will bring it. If I can't attend I will make arrangements for it to be there under someones supervision.
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If you actually read more than a headline, you would know that the said person acquired second and third degree burns due to coffee being over 20 C higher than normal levels, and several surgeries were required. I also believe that she was over 50 at the time.
Yes, I know that case. Liebeck v McD. Raised questions about US tort reform. I don’t believe McD owes the woman a duty of care over coffee being hotter than other establishments’ coffee, and I think it is not responsible for determining whether a customer is reasonably likely to consume the coffee in an unstable environment where she can foreseeably injure herself. I downright think you shouldn’t let juries decide these kinds of cases. The jury system should be confined to fact-finding in criminal cases.
You should have added the rest of the facts so that other ghers can see how stupid the US legal system is.
1) Plaintiff was in a car without cup holders. AKA an environment unsuited towards balancing coffee cups or consuming liquids in general.
2) She put the coffee between her legs and tried to pull off the lid to add her cream and sugar. Again, there is a reasonable expectation that coffee might spill. I have spilled coffee sitting on a desktop when I had to pull off the lid and it didn’t come off easily. Why would I put hot coffee between my legs and try to do the same? P increased her risk unnecessarily!
3) She wasn’t wearing anything waterproof. Again, reasonable expectation that hot liquids would be absorbed by her clothing, causing injury. She should have considered the danger, if she was so inclined to open a hot cup resting between her legs.
4) She was 79. She should know how clumsy or dextrous she is, and act accordingly. There’s no legal duty to check if your customer is a senile person with shaky hands.
5) There was a freaking warning on the coffee cup.
This case is another one of those “pack the jury with equally stupid and irresponsible peers of this woman”. A similar case after that was dismissed by an Appeals court – that’s significantly more authoritative because it’s a panel of judges deciding and not twelve brain-dead people from the boonies.
What surprised me was that McD didn’t hire better lawyers. They probably didn’t treat the case seriously. They also made the mistake of settling, rather than appealing. An appeals court would not issue a decision that screws up all hot beverage sales in its jurisdiction. Juries are anonymous, but no judge wants to be responsible for being the guy who turned hot cocoa into mildly lukewarm cocoa.
Thanks to this case, we have a precedent for hot coffee being considered ‘defective’. Just great. I believe the rest of the world should take note, and only serve Americans food at room temperature so that Americans don’t burn themselves and look for ambulance chasers. Oh, and Americans shouldn’t be permitted to hold forks and knives also, because these might be ‘unreasonably sharp’ and slip in somebody’s sweaty or greasy hand.
I had an Indian friend tell me, it should be the law to follow the Chinese way, and only use chopsticks and spoons in restaurants because it is reasonably foreseeable that some clumsy old American will cut herself with knife or fork leading to sepsis and death and $100m lawsuits. I told him that somebody might poke his eye out with chopsticks or some kid may stick chopsticks in his nose and cause brain damage, so it’s better to just use spoon and hand. And since some of these 400lb Americans might break a chair and fall and hurt his back leading to more lawsuits, everybody should eat off the floor.
So I concluded: Americans should eat like Indians.
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The idea that the US legal system is significantly more broken than in the rest of the world, based on one case, seems pretty suspect to me.