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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: CX23882 on Sat, 07 March 2009, 13:22:01

Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: CX23882 on Sat, 07 March 2009, 13:22:01
On non-International US keyboards without an AltGr key, does the right Alt key behave as AltGr if set in the OS, or is it a duplicate of the left Alt key?
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: D-EJ915 on Sat, 07 March 2009, 13:37:12
alt gr functionality is dictated by what keyboard layout the OS says you're using, like my regular alt on the at101 I'm using now is the alt gr key of my canadian french layout and my canadian french keyboard's alt gr functions as alt on my US layout systems.
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 07 March 2009, 13:50:43
Set the keyboard layout in Windows to US International, and it'll function as AltGr.

Otherwise, it's a duplicate of left Alt.
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: CX23882 on Sat, 07 March 2009, 14:03:34
Thanks, that's good to know.  A while ago I explained to somebody in Canada how to type vowels with accents by switching to the US International layout and using AltGr+vowel (as opposed to annoying dead keys) but they insisted that it didn't work.
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 07 March 2009, 14:22:05
Well, US-International has annoying dead keys, too. `, ~, ', and " are all dead keys. Which is annoying, and why I don't use it. OS X's implementation is much, much better (and doesn't need a special US-International layout to type accented characters...)
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: CX23882 on Sat, 07 March 2009, 14:28:21
The UK International layout on XP is goofier than that, so I used the Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator to make my own layout based on the standard UK layout, and then added the AltGr modifiers for áéíóúñ¿¡.  Having ' as a dead key is annoying as hell and I kept dead keys only when used in conjunction with AltGr (" ~ ' and `) in case I need to type something like Camagüay.
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: lam47 on Sat, 07 March 2009, 14:37:23
How do you do an i with 2 dots over it? My girlfriends name Eloisa is supposed to have them :(
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 07 March 2009, 14:39:30
On US-International, type a " and then an i.

On a regular US layout... Alt-(numpad)0239.

Or, I'm not sure if it's interpreted differently in non-German languages, but the German umlaut can also be represented with an e after the letter in question - so it'd be Eloiesa.
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: lal on Sat, 07 March 2009, 14:41:58
I'm using standard "US International" because it's readily available on every system (I have to type on other peoples machines often).  I got used to dead keys and don't find them annoying.  I often need to type German ümläüts.
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: lal on Sat, 07 March 2009, 14:47:30
Quote from: bhtooefr;23846

Or, I'm not sure if it's interpreted differently in non-German languages, but the German umlaut can also be represented with an e after the letter in question - so it'd be Eloiesa.


I'm pretty sure this is only done with ä, ö and ü, which can be written as ae, oe and ue respectively.
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: lam47 on Sat, 07 March 2009, 15:14:15
Hmm, perhaps it should be on the o then?
She does not bother and just writes it Eloisa but the pronunciation is El-oh-ee-sa.
Help me out here Lal. Its a German name :)
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: lal on Sat, 07 March 2009, 15:39:23
Well, there is no letter ï in German. German has only four additional characters to the English alphabet, and these are ä, ö, ü and ß.  So if it's written Eloïsa, it's not really a German name.
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: D-EJ915 on Sat, 07 March 2009, 15:40:17
if you pronounce it that way there would be no accent on the i as 'e' is the default pronunciation of it so it should be just as it is.
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: lam47 on Sat, 07 March 2009, 15:43:11
Christ seems I dont know anything about her name after all! Well 11 years on its good to know. I may have to have a word with her parents!
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: lal on Sat, 07 March 2009, 15:54:29
Hehe :)
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: lam47 on Sat, 07 March 2009, 16:04:33
That's interesting. Perhaps her name is Dutch after all!
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: D-EJ915 on Sat, 07 March 2009, 20:30:40
Heh only Nederlands I know is Ijs lol.
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 07 March 2009, 20:47:18
Quote from: bhtooefr;23841
Well, US-International has annoying dead keys, too. `, ~, ', and " are all dead keys. Which is annoying, and why I don't use it. OS X's implementation is much, much better (and doesn't need a special US-International layout to type accented characters...)


US-International being annoying or not is open to interpretation. It depends  if you like it or not. I type in both English and French a lot and cannot stand anything except a 104 keyboard layout, so US-International is the best thing ever. Like someone said, you can have the US-International layout on any computer running Windows or Linux. The Mac's method is good if you will only use a Mac all the time for the rest of you life. I've been using, and still do except when I'm at home,  US-International layout on Windows for a very very long time before I bought my first Mac. Imagine having to learn a new way of typing accents while using still using the old way at work.  So, the first thing I did was to find a way to emulate US-International on the Mac. Thankfully, there's a guy who has a solution: http://www.brockerhoff.net/usi/index.html.

So in short, I love it, and cannot imagine going back. In fact, my need for US-International layout is so high, that I might consider not using a Mac the day Rainer's solution does not work, rather than learning the Mac's way of typing accents. But that's just me :)
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 07 March 2009, 23:58:18
And, I'd rather emulate the Mac's layout (with the variation of, instead of using Option like the Mac does, using right Alt as an AltGr-like key) on anything else, and I don't use Macs that often.
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sun, 08 March 2009, 00:05:41
Quote from: bhtooefr;23880
And, I'd rather emulate the Mac's layout (with the variation of, instead of using Option like the Mac does, using right Alt as an AltGr-like key) on anything else, and I don't use Macs that often.


To each his or her own :) Seriously, I did not know that this was possible. If this is the case, then it's good news. I won't have to give up the Mac if Rainer's solution does not work on future Mac OS. I'm prepared to learn a new method of typing accents, but only if I can use it across platforms. I just don't want to have to remember one method while on Mac, and another while on a non-Mac. I have a hard time with CTRL-D/CMD-D in browsers everyday.

I will sleep a little bit more intelligent tonight :)
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: bhtooefr on Sun, 08 March 2009, 00:39:18
I don't know that it is possible, but due to how keyboard layouts in Windows work, I expect that it is.
Title: Alt-Gr on keyboards with two Alt keys
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sun, 08 March 2009, 17:38:46
Quote from: bhtooefr;23882
I don't know that it is possible, but due to how keyboard layouts in Windows work, I expect that it is.


I'll check it out. When I have some free time that is :)