geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: FinancialWar on Thu, 20 February 2014, 15:48:36
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Much like how HTC One is made of metal and the build quality is so much better than the plastic Samsung galaxy S4.
The same quality can be applied to keyboards. Why are all keyboards, even the one considered good quality ones such as Filco and Model M, they are still made of plastic.
I want a full metal keyboard.
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All keyboards are not plastic.
But the ones that are I would say are because of price.
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You can't have 100% metal
But there are already metal caps and metal cases
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You can't have 100% metal
But there are already metal caps and metal cases
What keyboard is that?
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You can't have 100% metal
But there are already metal caps and metal cases
What keyboard is that?
Plenty. Too many to list
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You can't have 100% metal
But there are already metal caps and metal cases
What keyboard is that?
KMACs come in all metal cases. You can get metal poker cases. The bottom half of the Northgate Omnikey's case is metal. I think there are metal cases for Filcos that you can buy after market.
Metal caps would just feel weird to type on, I'd think.
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Most of the Korean custom keyboards are with metal case so yea... plastic is considered "high" quality only when compared with other plastic.
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Kishsaver is solid metal, top and bottom, it is a tank.
It's all about cost at the end of the day. Most people don't care one bit what material their keyboard is made out of or what switches are inside of it, so no company is going to put out an all metal keyboard since it wouldn't sell.
So we make our own all metal keyboards.
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Most people don't care one bit what material their keyboard is made out of or what switches are inside of it, so no company is going to put out an all metal keyboard since it wouldn't sell.
Why metal phones and laptop sell like pan cakes? iphone and macbooks?
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Most people don't care one bit what material their keyboard is made out of or what switches are inside of it, so no company is going to put out an all metal keyboard since it wouldn't sell.
Why metal phones and laptop sell like pan cakes? iphone and macbooks?
Marketing
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The current Apple standalone keyboards have a half metal case. The top is aluminum and the bottom is plastic. As far as scissor switch keyboards go it is a little more expensive. I'd imagine that part of the reason they use aluminum is that it is a rather thin keyboard. If it was all plastic then it'd feel much cheaper.
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Metal caps are awesome :)
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I want a metal Filco with plastic caps.
Or metal Ergodox with leather palm rest, LED and backlit.
Is that too much to ask?
I can't image typing on metal caps though, must be heavy and thus easy to press.
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There are aftermarket metal cases you know...
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I want a metal Filco with plastic caps.
Or metal Ergodox with leather palm rest, LED and backlit.
Is that too much to ask?
I can't image typing on metal caps though, must be heavy and thus easy to press.
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=212
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?? $156 for a freaken case?? Heck no, I can get working second-hand two Filco for that.
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Or metal Ergodox with leather palm rest, LED and backlit.
While the project manager of the shop I'm working with (trying to work with) is being unduly slow to get back to me, I believe I'm about halfway to making mostly-aluminum cases for the ergodox.
here's (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=53013.0) the interest-check thread, if you'd like to read it.
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Massdrop's first gb for the ergodox had an all aluminum case, but since there were 5 layers there were a lot of fitting issues. You are free to pursue whatever venture you want; want something not available on the market?? Make an effort to make it happen, this is after all, an enthusiasts' forum and there are plenty of ways to go about doing so. There have been multiple opportunities to obtain a metal keyboard.
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my hope is that in the future, some brand name hardware make like Filco will buy the right to Ergodox and mass produce these keyboards.
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?? $156 for a freaken case?? Heck no, I can get working second-hand two Filco for that.
You have now answered your own question and this thread has come full-circle.
Such is the beginning of wisdom.
my hope is that in the future, some brand name hardware make like Filco will buy the right to Ergodox and mass produce these keyboards.
There are no "rights" to the ErgoDox. It's entirely open-hardware. Anyone, even a company, can produce it whenever they want.
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I want a metal Filco with plastic caps.
Or metal Ergodox with leather palm rest, LED and backlit.
Is that too much to ask?
?? $156 for a freaken case?? Heck no, I can get working second-hand two Filco for that.
So I guess it is too much to ask. :P
?? $156 for a freaken case?? Heck no, I can get working second-hand two Filco for that.
You have now answered your own question and this thread has come full-circle.
Such is the beginning of wisdom.
^ Pretty much this lol.
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Metal boards? what may be a functional reason for a metal board? Besides appearance the use of metal is just not economically feasible for a computer input device, where the materials can increase the price of the peripheral even beyond the main pc unit, talking in terms of overall industry economy, of course. For custom made ones you can put hundreds of dollars in one keyboard, why stop with metals like aluminum, go forward and use aerospace metals.
Main reason for no metals in keyboards is common sense. I know we at GH have a weird one though.
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Much like how HTC One is made of metal and the build quality is so much better than the plastic Samsung galaxy S4.
The same quality can be applied to keyboards. Why are all keyboards, even the one considered good quality ones such as Filco and Model M, they are still made of plastic.
I want a full metal keyboard.
You can't have 100% metal
But there are already metal caps and metal cases
What keyboard is that?
Most people don't care one bit what material their keyboard is made out of or what switches are inside of it, so no company is going to put out an all metal keyboard since it wouldn't sell.
Why metal phones and laptop sell like pan cakes? iphone and macbooks?
my hope is that in the future, some brand name hardware make like Filco will buy the right to Ergodox and mass produce these keyboards.
I want a metal Filco with plastic caps.
Or metal Ergodox with leather palm rest, LED and backlit.
Is that too much to ask?
I can't image typing on metal caps though, must be heavy and thus easy to press.
?? $156 for a freaken case?? Heck no, I can get working second-hand two Filco for that.
[attachimg=1]
I did have alot of fun reading this on the crapper though.
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I want a full metal keyboard.
That's called a "Typewriter". Here (http://www.usbtypewriter.com/) you go.
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Main reason for no metals in keyboards is common sense. I know we at GH have a weird one though.
Lol, common sense on Geekhack. Some of us own 10+ keyboard when when only have one or two computers. Where is the common sense in that?
Plus, I don't see anything wrong with owning a metal keyboard, beside the aesthetics, they are heavier, therefore more stable on the desk, more durable, will not break if dropped and can be used as a weapon or bullet shield during a robbery or terrorist attack.
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Main reason for no metals in keyboards is common sense. I know we at GH have a weird one though.
Lol, common sense on Geekhack. Some of us own 10+ keyboard when when only have one or two computers. Where is the common sense in that?
Plus, I don't see anything wrong with owning a metal keyboard, beside the aesthetics, they are heavier, therefore more stable on the desk, more durable, will not break if dropped and can be used as a weapon or bullet shield during a robbery or terrorist attack.
Agree: Common sense at GH is everything but common. And I love the bullet shield potential use for a metallic board. Good one! ;D Now I have a reason to invest 200+ in a nice metal case for my Poker.
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Metal boards? what may be a functional reason for a metal board? Besides appearance the use of metal is just not economically feasible for a computer input device, where the materials can increase the price of the peripheral even beyond the main pc unit, talking in terms of overall industry economy, of course. For custom made ones you can put hundreds of dollars in one keyboard, why stop with metals like aluminum, go forward and use aerospace metals.
Main reason for no metals in keyboards is common sense. I know we at GH have a weird one though.
Metal boards make typing feel more solid, like plate vs. pcb mounted keyboards.
And since when is not paying hundreds of dollars to get a minute increase in typing quality common sense?
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Also the reason cost is such a great factor on keyboards and not laptops/tablets/phones is scale of the materials and tooling to make said pieces.
Small devices like that are very thin (mostly stainless from what I have seen) which can be cut and bent in a couple quick steps via large hydraulic press and the proper cutting and stamping dies. Think a couple minutes total metal working time for complex shapes and multiple forming steps for larger draws in the metal. This also is from a thin sheet that is easy to work with and relatively cheap.
Metal keyboard cases however have to milled from a solid block. This gets very expensive very quickly. At mcmastercarr.com a single piece of 6061 aluminum .063" thick x 6" W x 48" L is $29.49. But a 2" thick x 12" x 12" is $851.30.
Now lets do a little math
.063*6*48=18.144 cubic inches now 29.46/18.144=$1.625 per cubic inch
2*12*12=288 cubic inches so 851.3/288=$2.956 per pound
So purely on an economics scale it gets expensive quick. And these numbers are only for the cost of the raw stock. This isn't even including delivery/shipping costs, handling cost in the plant, or cost for extra storage space for the material. And now you have to add in extra time to machine the case out of the block. This takes many many hours to mill out. And aluminum mills pretty easy.
So now does that $156 really sound that expensive?
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(http://i.imgur.com/2Gaupg6.png)
Come on everyone, nothing to see here.
And blocked...
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The worst keyboards are plastic and the best keyboards are plastic
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They're plastic because they don't need to be metal. Plastic on $1000+ TVs and monitors, plastic $90+ gaming mice, heck even my $600 headphones are mostly plastic. Keyboards only have to be heavy enough that they don't slide around when you're typing on them, and plastic is good enough for that.
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Metal boards? what may be a functional reason for a metal board? Besides appearance the use of metal is just not economically feasible for a computer input device, where the materials can increase the price of the peripheral even beyond the main pc unit, talking in terms of overall industry economy, of course. For custom made ones you can put hundreds of dollars in one keyboard, why stop with metals like aluminum, go forward and use aerospace metals.
Main reason for no metals in keyboards is common sense. I know we at GH have a weird one though.
Metal boards make typing feel more solid, like plate vs. pcb mounted keyboards.
And since when is not paying hundreds of dollars to get a minute increase in typing quality common sense?
Awesome, a new form of Economics.
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Why have all brains gone? Plastics are lighter, cheaper to produce, easier to mold and electric insulated. You don't want to be shocked each time you press a key, do you?
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Why the fixation on metal for a rigid and solid case? How about carbon fiber? Now we're talking.
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Carbon fiber is fussier to work with and just about need a mold. Not to mention health risks from working with the raw materials. I wouldn't use a cheap dust mask. I would go with a full on respirator with cartridge filters. The particulate filters are good until you can't breath through them and the dirtier they get the better they filter. The chemical ones though are usually only good for x number of days after the package is opened.
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Why the fixation on metal for a rigid and solid case? How about carbon fiber? Now we're talking.
WTF. We talking about keyboards, not motorbikes.
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Why the fixation on metal for a rigid and solid case? How about carbon fiber? Now we're talking.
WTF. We talking about keyboards, not motorbikes.
[attachimg=1]
Also red herring aside, you don't have the high ground on this one.
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Opps delete
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Why the fixation on metal for a rigid and solid case? How about carbon fiber? Now we're talking.
WTF. We talking about keyboards, not motorbikes.
(Attachment Link)
Also red herring aside, you don't have the high ground on this one.
esp since somebody on gh is attempting to make a carbon fiber case
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This is turning fuzzy. I'd prefer the good old white vs black fight.
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Metal keyboard cases however have to milled from a solid block.
While that has been the trend of late, Almost all metal keyboard cases I have have been stamped or formed from a metal sheet(s). I have several examples. Even the welded ones are made from sheet. The remainder are die cast, and those are almost exclusively IBM (and expensive).
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Why the fixation on metal for a rigid and solid case? How about carbon fiber? Now we're talking.
WTF. We talking about keyboards, not motorbikes.
Metal is metal. I've spent hundreds of dollars multiple times on parts for keyboards. It's what you have to do to get what you want.
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Because $$$
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Main reason for no metals in keyboards is common sense. I know we at GH have a weird one though.
Lol, common sense on Geekhack. Some of us own 10+ keyboard when when only have one or two computers. Where is the common sense in that?
Plus, I don't see anything wrong with owning a metal keyboard, beside the aesthetics, they are heavier, therefore more stable on the desk, more durable, will not break if dropped and can be used as a weapon or bullet shield during a robbery or terrorist attack.
*Cough* Say that to all the macbook users who dropped theirs.
(http://churchm.ag/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Dropped-MacBook-Pro1.jpg)
Look at Nokia and their milled polycarbonate cases. Those are solid and won't break if you drop them and even small blemishes won't show up. *Boing*
And not all plastics are made the same, look at PEEK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEEK) for example.
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Plastic is really the most rational sensible material in many cases. The reason computers and phones are made out of metal is because ignorant people confuse metal with quality (like the modern Apple keyboard that crap inside but pretty metal on the outside). I have a HTC One, but honestly I'd have preferred a well built plastic phone instead (like the a Nokia Lumiar or the Nexus 5), wrapping a phone in plastic is just silly. It gets in the way of the antenna signals and I actually makes it more prone when dropped since metal doesn't absorb chocks as well as plastic.
I'm a very happy with my plastic keyboard!
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Injection-moulded plastic is inexpensive to produce in volume, and gives many options in how to design it. CNC-routing aluminium is more expensive, both in cost of materials, machine time and wear of the different bits. It is more difficult to route certain details also.
Plastic is also a material which is room-temperature to the touch.
There are rubber dome keyboards where the bottom half is sheet metal (BTC...), and there are mechanical keyboards which integrate a sheet-metal switch mounting plate with the top case (Corsair...).
Metal keyboard cases however have to milled from a solid block. This gets very expensive very quickly.
Which is why Apple makes their keyboards from the leftover bits from making iMac cases. The aluminium shavings are washed and recycled, which also recoups some of the cost of the original blocks.
Apple's manufacturing process is very streamlined.
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Metal keyboard cases however have to milled from a solid block. This gets very expensive very quickly.
Which is why Apple makes their keyboards from the leftover bits from making iMac cases. The aluminium shavings are washed and recycled, which also recoups some of the cost of the original blocks.
Apple's manufacturing process is very streamlined.
So does every single company that does CNC milling. Aluminum is VERY recyclable. Nothing new here...
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The reason computers and phones are made out of plastic is because ignorant people confuse metal with quality (like the modern Apple keyboard that crap inside but pretty metal on the outside). I have a HTC One, but honestly I'd have preferred a well built plastic phone instead (like the a Nokia Lumiar or the Nexus 5), wrapping a phone in plastic is just silly. It gets in the way of the antenna signals and I actually makes it more prone when dropped [...]
I think you accidentally replaced the word “metal” with “plastic” here. It makes your post very confusing.
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personally never had a creaky alumnimum product before (macbook pro owner)
basically, if you drop things alot, good plastic is the best material choice (because 'shock absorbancy').
otherwise, you can get away with the premium weight and smoothness of aluminum. yes, the 'idea' of metal being more premium IS a 'tangible' quality that must be considered in evaluations. it's the brand name phenomena; just for a material instead of for a company.
EDIT:
never heard of something being cool to the touch being bad before...except like a stove or oven.
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I think you accidentally replaced the word “metal” with “plastic” here. It makes your post very confusing.
Oh! You are right. Sorry for the confusing :) I fixed it!
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I think the metal in a keyboard would give the same effect as mounting switches to a metal plate, just not as pronounced.
If we're talking build quality, then I like the thinkpad's design. You get a metal "skeleton" surrounded by a plastic shell.