The problem with a lot of Alps stuff is that there is a huge variety of switches. I got real complicated white Alps in a Focus FK2001. So I think you read some bad information somewhere. The Dell AT101W is what I started on and I think $30 is a good deal. Anyways, I think you should definitely go make a new topic.well I hope it wasn't bad information. On the deskthority wiki page for the FK-2001 it says that models without the windows keys have the real complicated white alps and possibly real blue switches, while those with the windows keys don't use real alps, or sometimes simplified blues (another imitation?). Here's the source - http://deskthority.net/wiki/Focus_FK-2001
Anyway, I would be glad to make a thread where we could continue discussion. Give me one moment, posting from my tablet right now.
Again, you can find FK2001s with real white alps. I had one.
And yes, let's migrate this to a new thread.
The problem with a lot of Alps stuff is that there is a huge variety of switches. I got real complicated white Alps in a Focus FK2001. So I think you read some bad information somewhere. The Dell AT101W is what I started on and I think $30 is a good deal. Anyways, I think you should definitely go make a new topic.well I hope it wasn't bad information. On the deskthority wiki page for the FK-2001 it says that models without the windows keys have the real complicated white alps and possibly real blue switches, while those with the windows keys don't use real alps, or sometimes simplified blues (another imitation?). Here's the source - http://deskthority.net/wiki/Focus_FK-2001
Anyway, I would be glad to make a thread where we could continue discussion. Give me one moment, posting from my tablet right now.
The problem with a lot of Alps stuff is that there is a huge variety of switches. I got real complicated white Alps in a Focus FK2001. So I think you read some bad information somewhere. The Dell AT101W is what I started on and I think $30 is a good deal. Anyways, I think you should definitely go make a new topic.
So how would I go about obtaining a good alps keyboard? I was interested in the white alps, but I'm aware of how many different color switches there are and have no idea which are the best choice, or which of those are even available anymore (would like to find blue alps but it doubt that will happen). I've heard mostly about the Dell AT101W, which has black alps that apparently aren't very popular for typing, and the Focus FK-2001 which the majority of those boards out there don't even have real white alps. Right now whites seem the most likely to be available and the better choice for typing but I have no idea about these kinds of boards at all.
I would have liked to create a thread for this to possibly instigate more discussion but there's already a couple threads pertaining to alps on the first two pages so I wasn't sure.
I recommend getting an Dell AT101W or Focus FK-2001 like you said. If you want to make a thread go ahead? And you can buy them on eBay.
I was looking on eBay. I found a couple listings for the Dell one just fine, about $30 (is that a good price used?) but I still wasn't sure if I'd like the black alps so much after hearing how many others disliked them. The only two listings I could find of the Focus were the ones with the Windows key, which to my understanding do not use even real alps switches but instead imitations. Most all other alps boards I tried searching for that were on the deskthority wiki I couldn't find on eBay. I'm really not sure what else to do, but I'm still interested in the white alps unless, perhaps, the green alps are available somewhere too, or something.So how would I go about obtaining a good alps keyboard? I was interested in the white alps, but I'm aware of how many different color switches there are and have no idea which are the best choice, or which of those are even available anymore (would like to find blue alps but it doubt that will happen). I've heard mostly about the Dell AT101W, which has black alps that apparently aren't very popular for typing, and the Focus FK-2001 which the majority of those boards out there don't even have real white alps. Right now whites seem the most likely to be available and the better choice for typing but I have no idea about these kinds of boards at all.
I would have liked to create a thread for this to possibly instigate more discussion but there's already a couple threads pertaining to alps on the first two pages so I wasn't sure.
I recommend getting an Dell AT101W or Focus FK-2001 like you said. If you want to make a thread go ahead? And you can buy them on eBay.
Spend some time poking around the Deskthority wiki. There’s a pretty good description of what keyboards have which switches.I have experience with buckling spring, MX blue and brown, and topre. The buckling springs took some getting used to their weight but in the end I could tolerate it. I couldn't say which of those I prefer most but I did enjoy them all.
When looking on ebay, try to find keyboards that have a picture showing a switch, or if there is none, ask the seller to take one.
What kind of personal preferences do you have w/r/t keyswitches? It’s pretty impossible to offer advice without knowing anything about what you like.
the right one for what?the right one I'll be satisfied with. After reading about them some, the blues or greens seemed like the best although I doubt I will ever find those, so I'm thinking complicated whites would be best. In the end I have no idea.
Black Alps can be very nice if you get a good Dell AT101. There are a lot of bad ones out there, but a good one is excellent.when you say a good AT101 do you mean in regards to its model, or its condition? I was looking at the AT101W, and in the listings they seemed to be in pretty nice condition and they were only ~$30
The early Focus 2001s are dandy, look for one without Windows keys.
If you have an ADB-to-USB adapter, the old Apple Extended Keyboards (1 & 2) are extremely well-made and I prefer the original AEK to the AEK2 with the dampened switches. That is a $25 adapter readily available on ebay.
Otherwise, you are right, it is a crap shoot and depends a lot on luck.
when you say a good AT101 do you mean in regards to its model, or its condition? I was looking at the AT101W, and in the listings they seemed to be in pretty nice condition and they were only ~$30
I think I understand what you mean. I've read that blacks wear down over time due to friction in the key travel, correct? I could imagine that influencing typing feeling although if I'm ordering online I guess there's really nothing I could do to know for sure. The listings I was looking at claimed to be manufacturer refurbished, if that means anything?
when you say a good AT101 do you mean in regards to its model, or its condition? I was looking at the AT101W, and in the listings they seemed to be in pretty nice condition and they were only ~$30
They vary wildly, and looks are not a reliable indicator of feel. I wish I knew how to tell a good one from a bad one without testing it.
Black Alps can be very nice if you get a good Dell AT101. There are a lot of bad ones out there, but a good one is excellent.
The early Focus 2001s are dandy, look for one without Windows keys.
If you have an ADB-to-USB adapter, the old Apple Extended Keyboards (1 & 2) are extremely well-made and I prefer the original AEK to the AEK2 with the dampened switches. That is a $25 adapter readily available on ebay.
Otherwise, you are right, it is a crap shoot and depends a lot on luck.
If you’re in a hurry, here’s an NTC KB-6251EA with complicated white Alps for $114 OBO shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200990279251that certainly looks very nice, especially with the double shot caps, although I'm not so sure I'm ready to spend $115 on just white alps. Unless this is how much these kinds of boards cost usually. Either way I'll consider that but I still intend to look around some more.
If you wait a week or two, you can probably find something similar for $50-60. But if you want something *right now*...no, I definitely don't need any of this right now unless there's an urgently great deal somewhere. I'll just get something as soon as I find a good offer. I guess I'll look around more for the model you linked too.
I'm in the exact same boat as you. I've been checking thrift stores around my area lately because they will sometimes have old mechanical keyboards.I'm not certain I will like them but after reading around it seems like I'd prefer them to blacks (although I'll probably still order that AT101W as well). I was aware of the omnikey but they're all quite expensive. If I can't find any for cheap I'll consider buying from that guy. Thanks for showing me it.
If you're absolutely sure you'll like white alps, then I'd reccomend buying an Omnikey from this guy
http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/
As far as I can tell, the Northgate Omnikey seems to be the best alps board you can get, and I hear this guy sells ones that he's refurbished from $140 all the way up to just south of $250 for ones with blue alps.
I think I understand what you mean. I've read that blacks wear down over time due to friction in the key travel, correct? I could imagine that influencing typing feeling although if I'm ordering online I guess there's really nothing I could do to know for sure. The listings I was looking at claimed to be manufacturer refurbished, if that means anything?
I understand what you mean you say some feel terrible, but I don't exactly understand how or rather in what way it does. I guess when I order one I'll just have to hope for the best.I think I understand what you mean. I've read that blacks wear down over time due to friction in the key travel, correct? I could imagine that influencing typing feeling although if I'm ordering online I guess there's really nothing I could do to know for sure. The listings I was looking at claimed to be manufacturer refurbished, if that means anything?
I got one new in the late-1990s with a Dell system and used it for several years until the keys started getting shiny. I set it aside for several more years, and it was still very nice when I got it back out.
However, I have bought others that looked pristine but felt terrible.
I keep my gear clean, and don't smoke or eat or drink at the keyboard, but it is still hard to predict.
PS- buy a Griffin iMate for $25 and experiment with Apple Extended Keyboards.
As far as I can tell, the Northgate Omnikey seems to be the best alps board you can get, and I hear this guy sells ones that he's refurbished from $140 all the way up to just south of $250 for ones with blue alps.
If you’re in a hurry, here’s an NTC KB-6251EA with complicated white Alps for $114 OBO shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200990279251
"Feel" is very subjective and emotional, but there is uneven friction or scratchiness that is hard to articulate, but very real.the reason I wanted to try alps was because I wanted a new experience from cherry MX, topre, and membrane keys and I had heard around that the dampened whites felt very similar to rubber dome, and from my understanding of the mechanism I can imagine why.
AEKs don't sell for much more money than AEK2s, but only turn up once every month or 2 instead of twice a week, and often have had dead switches, in my experience. I prefer the orange switches to pink/salmon, but the jury is out on that, and/or whether there is really any difference at all.
There are plenty of people who prefer the dampened creams in the AEK2, don't count them out.
For any of the old Apple ADB keyboards you will need one of these, a good thing to have around anyway:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-BRAND-NEW-/360863571305?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5405251d69 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-BRAND-NEW-/360863571305?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5405251d69)
pardon my ignorance but what's the difference between the plates, and how would someone feel this difference when typing?If you’re in a hurry, here’s an NTC KB-6251EA with complicated white Alps for $114 OBO shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200990279251
Just as a note, that's probably got a plastic plate. $114 is a lot for a keyboard with a plastic mounting plate! It's a nice keyboard though. (The rare Omron version did use a metal plate; I haven't seen a metal plate Alps version yet though.)
pardon my ignorance but what's the difference between the plates, and how would someone feel this difference when typing?If you’re in a hurry, here’s an NTC KB-6251EA with complicated white Alps for $114 OBO shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200990279251
Just as a note, that's probably got a plastic plate. $114 is a lot for a keyboard with a plastic mounting plate! It's a nice keyboard though. (The rare Omron version did use a metal plate; I haven't seen a metal plate Alps version yet though.)
As far as I can tell, the Northgate Omnikey seems to be the best alps board you can get, and I hear this guy sells ones that he's refurbished from $140 all the way up to just south of $250 for ones with blue alps.
Wait, this is the guy who swears blind that white and blue Alps are the same?
Wait, this is the guy who swears blind that white and blue Alps are the same?
the reason I wanted to try alps was because I wanted a new experience from cherry MX, topre, and membrane keys and I had heard around that the dampened whites felt very similar to rubber dome, and from my understanding of the mechanism I can imagine why.
Does everyone, for the most part, get these old keyboards from eBay?
(Though in fact, blue Alps is indeed rarer, and most definitely a different switch, although we don't have conclusive proof yet that it feels better, or a clear idea as to what would have been changed.)What do you mean “conclusive prove yet that it feels better”? It feels different, and some (most?) people prefer it. There’s no way to get “conclusive proof” about something subjective like keyswitch feel.
As for a plastic plate — I suspect it actually improves switch feel by taking up some of the bottoming out impact in tactile switchesPersonally I don’t find it makes much difference in feeling, though maybe there’s a sound difference, and probably in overall feeling of rigidity/stability when you pick the keyboard up, flex it, etc.
Matias quiet click (dampened, non-click, despite the name) switches do feel a lot like the NMB-made Dell RT7D50 rubber dome keyboards; I forget now, but I imagine that the Matias switches were noticeably lighter.Noticeably lighter than what? Both types of Matias switches feel about the same w/r/t force as white or orange or dampened cream or yellow Alps, which is a bit more force than green or blue Alps, and less force than linear cream or brown Alps.
I take umbrage at the idea that he's playing to what he perceives is a misconception just to rip people off. Either blue Alps is a different, rarer switch and therefore worth more, or it's just a white switch with different dye, therefore worth the same. You cannot rant about how stupid people are for thinking they're different switches, yet also charge more for one than the other.It sounds like he sells the ones with blue switches for more, because people want them and they are rarer, and will still sell at that higher price, but at the same time he tries to convince prospective buyers that they’d be just as happy with the cheaper white-switch boards.
Oh okay, I'm still learning about this stuff so I apologize for saying something like that.
the reason I wanted to try alps was because I wanted a new experience from cherry MX, topre, and membrane keys and I had heard around that the dampened whites felt very similar to rubber dome, and from my understanding of the mechanism I can imagine why.
Does everyone, for the most part, get these old keyboards from eBay?
Dampened Alps feel like Alps, only dampened. No mechanical switch feels like a rubber dome collapsing, except it the most general way. The dampening was probably intended more to reduce sound than feel.
Ebay is a good source, although at the bottom end of the spectrum shipping is as much or more than the board itself.
If you keep an eye on salvage stores, thrift stores, and yard sales you can often find decent old boards <$5
Oh okay, I'm still learning about this stuff so I apologize for saying something like that.
the reason I wanted to try alps was because I wanted a new experience from cherry MX, topre, and membrane keys and I had heard around that the dampened whites felt very similar to rubber dome, and from my understanding of the mechanism I can imagine why.
Does everyone, for the most part, get these old keyboards from eBay?
Dampened Alps feel like Alps, only dampened. No mechanical switch feels like a rubber dome collapsing, except it the most general way. The dampening was probably intended more to reduce sound than feel.
Ebay is a good source, although at the bottom end of the spectrum shipping is as much or more than the board itself.
If you keep an eye on salvage stores, thrift stores, and yard sales you can often find decent old boards <$5
I've been looking at those Matias keyboards too. They are pretty expensive though, and I'm really not sure what kind of alps switch they even use. I know some use dampened, in their quiet models, but none of their specification sections say exactly which alps switch it uses. I'm guessing whites, but I have no idea.
Matias use their own clone switches, so they won't be exactly like anything else.
Noticeably lighter than what?
It sounds like he sells the ones with blue switches for more, because people want them and they are rarer, and will still sell at that higher price, but at the same time he tries to convince prospective buyers that they’d be just as happy with the cheaper white-switch boards.
That’s not trying to “rip people off”.
Matias use their own clone switches, so they won't be exactly like anything else.
For reference:
http://matias.ca/switches/click/
http://matias.ca/switches/quiet/
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Matias_switchNoticeably lighter than what?
The Dell RT7D50 is quite a stiff keyboard. Matias quiet switches have a nice light feeling, so they must have been lighter than the RT7D50 domes. The feel was otherwise quite similar, as I recall.It sounds like he sells the ones with blue switches for more, because people want them and they are rarer, and will still sell at that higher price, but at the same time he tries to convince prospective buyers that they’d be just as happy with the cheaper white-switch boards.
That’s not trying to “rip people off”.
That's just a very confused mind. Why would you take advantage of perceived idiocy at the same time as trying to educate people? Lol, that's just plain nuts.
The only rational argument I could find is that the blue Alps boards are going to be older (MouseFan's chart shows 1985–1988 for blue Alps) and it could be argued that the original keyboards were better made, or typically require more maintenance as a result (worse yellowing, more dirt build-up etc).
By the way, I was reading this earlier:
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/fk555.html
I won't quote any of it anywhere because Google Translate is not adequate (and I may be misunderstanding it as a result), but it contains some theories as to the origin of Focus Electronic and their potential involvement with the OmniKey series and with Apple as an OEM, since we appear not to know who made the OmniKey keyboards. Focus appear to have gone out of business, sadly, so I can't ask them any more — I have so much I would love to ask them if I could.
That would be an interesting page to have properly translated into English.
Matais's page about their clicky switches says that cherry switches are all linearHere’s what Matias had to say about that (http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/1wknkm/i_am_edgar_matias_designer_of_matias_keyboards/cf32mmw?context=3):
wut
For us, feel is the most important thing. That's why I don't personally like Cherry switches. They're linear, so there's not much feel to them. They feel like old rubber domes that have lost all their elasticity.
For me, switches should convey the actuation point. You should be able to feel the exact spot where they trigger. For that, you need a tactile switch, which ours are.
With linear switches, you can only guess the actuation point. You can't feel it.
Switches should also provide just enough resistance to hold the weight of your hands. If they're too light, you'll need to support the weight of your hands yourself — which gets very tiring, and can lead to neck and shoulder pain.
Well, if I'm gonna eat a burger, I want a GOOD burger or a steak — not some overprocessed meat of questionable origin.
If you want tactile, Blues and Browns mix a lot of water with your wine. Our switches (and ALPS before them) are unabashedly tactile. They're not half-assing it.
If you want linear, Reds are linear. They're not pretending to be something else.
(Sorry for all the mixed metaphors :-)
I know what he means about blues and browns not being tactile, but I'd say that greens and clears are pretty tactileHave you used the Matias switches, or old Alps switches? Matias quiet switches are more tactile than MX “ergo” clear switches (and thus dramatically more than stock MX clear switches): the actuation point is higher, the force drop is sharper and more obvious, the feel is smoother, without the plastic-on-plastic friction.
I know what he means about blues and browns not being tactile, but I'd say that greens and clears are pretty tactileHave you used the Matias switches, or old Alps switches? Matias quiet switches are more tactile than MX “ergo” clear switches (and thus dramatically more than stock MX clear switches): the actuation point is higher, the force drop is sharper and more obvious, the feel is smoother, without the plastic-on-plastic friction.
Nah, they don’t make MX green feel linear. But I do find the feeling more satisfying than MX tactile/clicky switches. It has a different character.
If you set the bar for sharp tactility at, say, the feeling of Model F switches, then everything else I’ve tried falls somewhat short of that, but Alps clicky white/blue switches (and Matias quiet switches) are closer than MX switches, IMO. It sounds like the modded “jailhouse” MX blue switches might be pretty nice, but I haven’t tried those.
I haven’t tried the “fuhua” switches, but there were a few types, and supposedly some variation in feel even among batches of the same type? Which kind did you try? http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKBL/SKBM_series
I wonder how the typical SKBM clicky switch compares to the newer Matias clicky switches.
Mine were the black ones. It was on a pretty neat board, and I'm trying to find it on deskthority because i thought i saw it there once.I’m pretty sure the Matias quiet switches are noticeably more tactile than those black SKBM ones. They’re more tactile than SKCM orange or SKCM cream tactile switches, though that might be partly due to age/use in the examples I’ve tried.
Yes its complicated white alps. I'd hold out for another Omnikey in better shape. It's so yellowed. I've seen other Omnikey 101s for the same price in way better condition. And I think it's one of the better Alps keyboards. You can read my review in my sig.Yeah I did read through your review. It does seem to be a very nice board and I'm looking at getting this or maybe the focus fk-2001 for white alps. I'll get around to ordering the AT101W eventually for black alps.
I have seen people clean these pretty well, and I'm guessing I can do it too without ruining anything on it, although I guess it wouldn't be worth the effort when I probably could just find a better deal.
Only other listing I see for the omnikey 101 on ebay right now is $100 and I don't think it's worth that much used.
In the last two weeks, I've seen 4 Omnikeys for around $40-50.
I can imagine that. Guess I'll just keep this search saved and see what pops up over time for the omnikey. I'm still having trouble determining which focus boards have the real complicated alps as well, and not the alps.tw Type T1 or Hua-Jie switches. I cant find any either that are without a windows key, which are the ones that are more likely to have the real alps switches apparently.I have seen people clean these pretty well, and I'm guessing I can do it too without ruining anything on it, although I guess it wouldn't be worth the effort when I probably could just find a better deal.
The keyboard is worse in real life than in the photos. You will have a very hard time cleaning it.
The seller will not entertain a lower price.
Only other listing I see for the omnikey 101 on ebay right now is $100 and I don't think it's worth that much used.
In the last two weeks, I've seen 4 Omnikeys for around $40-50.
I've seen people not liking white Alps around here, but I'm not one of them.
I've seen people not liking white Alps around here, but I'm not one of them. I bought a SIIG Suntouch keyboard with complicated whites like those to go along with my first computer, and used it for many years--I eventually wore it out, in fact. If you end up getting it, post a review for us, please.Seller said he didn't want to drop the $100 price, but he'd offer it to me later at my proposed price of $65 if it doesn't sell. If I ever do end up getting it I'll post a review of the particular board and what I think of the switches. I was also planning to try black alps but I'm not as worried about those because the AT101W are so readily available and for so cheap, so I'll get one later.
There are very many AEKII for about $20-$30, but only one or two AEK (M0115) that are around $100.
I guess maybe I've entered into this market at the wrong time.
There are very many AEKII for about $20-$30, but only one or two AEK (M0115) that are around $100.
These old Apples are bad about yellowing and those $30 ones are ugly. It used to be that the AEK (M0115s) turned up infrequently but sold cheap. That may have changed.w/r/t clicky/tactile Alps boards, in the past 5 months or so, I’ve found: $3 for an Apple Standard Keyboard M0116 at a thrift store, (and then the rest from ebay) $30 shipped for a decent condition M0115, $27 shipped for a not-great-condition MTek K104 with white complicated Alps switches, $25 shipped each for a couple of AEK IIs (one pretty yellowed and the other with broken electronics and each missing one keycap), $30 shipped each for a couple of excellent condition Apple IIGS keyboards one with SMK (“monterey white”) switches and the other with orange Alps, $30 shipped for a not-great-condition Leading Edge DC-2014 with blue Alps, $50 shipped for a Chicony KB-5181 with SMK “monterey blue” switches, $28 shipped for a non-working (but keyboard in lovely condition) IBM PC Convertible 5140 with brown Alps, $25 shipped for a SIIG MacTouch with white Alps.
MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/IKa32Ew.jpg)
Just got my Focus FK-2001 in the mailMoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/GTns2WN.jpg)
Complicated white alps with doubleshot keycaps. Very nice looking.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/GYXBIuT.jpg)
I think this is an AT connector. I'm not sure, but it's not something I can plug in to my computer. Where could I get a converter to PS/2 (or maybe USB)?
The keycaps aren't yellowed but there is a lot of physical dirt caked onto their sides. I'm guessing I can clean that off just fine by submerging them in soap, right?
I was looking at just getting this thing off amazon: http://www.amazon.com/5pin-Female-Keyboard-Cable-Adapter/dp/B00IGI2XVW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1393700522&sr=8-5&keywords=ps%2F2+to+xt+adapterMoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/IKa32Ew.jpg)
Just got my Focus FK-2001 in the mailMoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/GTns2WN.jpg)
Complicated white alps with doubleshot keycaps. Very nice looking.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/GYXBIuT.jpg)
I think this is an AT connector. I'm not sure, but it's not something I can plug in to my computer. Where could I get a converter to PS/2 (or maybe USB)?
The keycaps aren't yellowed but there is a lot of physical dirt caked onto their sides. I'm guessing I can clean that off just fine by submerging them in soap, right?
There's a thread with instructioins for making an AT/XT-PS/2 to USB converter using a Teensy. I just ordered enough stuff to make two of them if no one else has one ready to send you.
(http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.0)
Thanks for the cleaning adviceI was looking at just getting this thing off amazon: http://www.amazon.com/5pin-Female-Keyboard-Cable-Adapter/dp/B00IGI2XVW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1393700522&sr=8-5&keywords=ps%2F2+to+xt+adapterMoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/IKa32Ew.jpg)
Just got my Focus FK-2001 in the mailMoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/GTns2WN.jpg)
Complicated white alps with doubleshot keycaps. Very nice looking.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/GYXBIuT.jpg)
I think this is an AT connector. I'm not sure, but it's not something I can plug in to my computer. Where could I get a converter to PS/2 (or maybe USB)?
The keycaps aren't yellowed but there is a lot of physical dirt caked onto their sides. I'm guessing I can clean that off just fine by submerging them in soap, right?
There's a thread with instructioins for making an AT/XT-PS/2 to USB converter using a Teensy. I just ordered enough stuff to make two of them if no one else has one ready to send you.
(http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.0)
Only problem is I wasn't sure if it would work with both AT and XT, or just one of the other. That little indent on the connector I have is what's making me unsure.
A simple AT to PS/2 converter is plenty. One tip, when pulling caps to clean them, rock gently back and forth to get them off. Alps caps can hold on tight, and you don't want to break the switch.
MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/IKa32Ew.jpg)
Just got my Focus FK-2001 in the mailMoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/GTns2WN.jpg)
Complicated white alps with doubleshot keycaps. Very nice looking.MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/GYXBIuT.jpg)
I think this is an AT connector. I'm not sure, but it's not something I can plug in to my computer. Where could I get a converter to PS/2 (or maybe USB)?
The keycaps aren't yellowed but there is a lot of physical dirt caked onto their sides. I'm guessing I can clean that off just fine by submerging them in soap, right?
In between the keys are absolutely caked with dust. Going to cover the end of a screw driver with tissues and rub it in between.
The only gripe was how hard is to get alternative caps for it.
Escape caps in red are already available.
I also have alt least 2 sets of Apple AEK caps in PBT that could easily be dyed, but they have that retarded font. I will do it anyway, yet one more item on my to-do list.Dye them black, and you’ll have blanks!
The only gripe was how hard is to get alternative caps for it.
It's about time for somebody to start selling a few Alps specialty key caps.
Personally, I would like some nice Escape and arrow replacements, and WASD is always hot.
Escape caps in red are already available.
Yes, I have one.
I also have alt least 2 sets of Apple AEK caps in PBT that could easily be dyed, but they have that retarded font. I will do it anyway, yet one more item on my to-do list.
Anyway I usually just put keycaps and the case into the dishwasher, usually works fine. Only downside for the cases is the stickers will probably come off, and I had a model m case warp due to temps which surprised me.
I'm fairly certain that the keys on the 2001 are ABS
The only PBT doubleshot caps I've ever seen are those vortex sets, which actually look very nice for the priceI'm fairly certain that the keys on the 2001 are ABS
It is safe to assume that all doubleshots are ABS.
Look at legends in good light with a very strong magnifying glass and it is fairly easy to learn the differences.
It is safe to assume that all doubleshots are ABS.
I wonder if there’s any way to make plastic inserts that fit into cherry MX mounts (i.e. the kind for fitting the Costar stabilizer inserts on some Alps boards / the kind SP still can make w/ Alps caps) but which on the bottom side work with Alps-style stabilizer wired.
If so, they could probably be produced in reasonable numbers via 3d printing at Shapeways or something for not impossible cost, or maybe someone could even make tooling to produce some for cheap at bigger volumes. (E.g. if SP did this they could potentially boost sales of Alps caps to hobbyists; but maybe that’s too small a market.)
You don’t think there’ll be any Alps revival? I think it could happen, if Matias gets some other keyboard OEMs on board, the sort who are currently using Cherry MX switches but get hit by frequent shortages &c.
They're a lot different from white alps, that's for sure.
How are they supposed to feel? I mean, they're not awfully different from whites, the similarities are present when typing but it just feels heavier. I honestly haven't even typed properly on my focus since I'm still waiting on that adapter to use it so maybe I should hold off judgement until I've thoroughly typed on that, but some keys do stand out more than others in this way.
They're a lot different from white alps, that's for sure.
You got a bad one. I had several really nice AT101s before I got a bad one and understood why some people dis them so much.
And, a few months ago, I got a REALLY bad one that was one of the worst keyboards I have ever used.
They turn up at salvage/junk/thrift stores pretty often and can be bought for <$5
If you see a cheap one, give it another go.
So I cant say I'm a fan of the black alps switches at all. I don't know if it's this particular board but it takes an immense amount of force to press the key and I find myself passing over keys and skipping letters very often while typing. I may just have to adjust to it but it's one of the heaviest switches I've ever used. Some switches feel stiffer than others but I can imagine that's just a result of wear over time. I'm not sure what to think of these switches; I wouldn't say they're unusable or even uncomfortable but it feels very awkward to type with. Traveling through the switch it actually feels somewhat smooth but it's the distinct amount of force it takes to move past the top is what's giving me trouble with these. They're a lot different from white alps, that's for sure.
As for the board itself, the AT101W, it's a very nice and sturdy board. I wasn't aware the keys would be engraved but typing on them feels just fine.
have yet to grab a bad apple alps board in any switch ;D
I am a fan of the click on the whites. They feel similar to MX blues in a way but the bump is a lot more sharp on the alps, I think is the way to put it.
On this dell board not only are they heavier but the bump feels very odd, almost as if it isn't even there. I guess this one I got is bad. I'm wondering if there's anything I can do with it short of selling it. You did mention soldering the switches into this board but I'm not so sure I'm ready to do that at this point.
And I'm still looking for a cheap M0115, the salmon or orange alps look nice.
I am a fan of the click on the whites. They feel similar to MX blues in a way but the bump is a lot more sharp on the alps, I think is the way to put it.
On this dell board not only are they heavier but the bump feels very odd, almost as if it isn't even there. I guess this one I got is bad. I'm wondering if there's anything I can do with it short of selling it. You did mention soldering the switches into this board but I'm not so sure I'm ready to do that at this point.
And I'm still looking for a cheap M0115, the salmon or orange alps look nice.
White ALPs are nice, but the feel of them varies keyboard to keyboard. On my Omnikey, its white ALPs are quite soft and clicky, as if they have been slightly dampened. On my Avant Stellar, it feels really dull and clicky, similar to dry black ALPS. Lastly, on my Macally MK96, the ALPs have a super crunchy and clicky feel, much crunchier than MX blues.
The M0115 is great with either orange or salmon ALPs, but you'd have better luck finding them on a M0116. Both are tactile and have a similar force to MX Blacks (on the surface of the key).
White ALPs are nice, but the feel of them varies keyboard to keyboard. On my Omnikey, its white ALPs are quite soft and clicky, as if they have been slightly dampened. On my Avant Stellar, it feels really dull and clicky, similar to dry black ALPS. Lastly, on my Macally MK96, the ALPs have a super crunchy and clicky feel, much crunchier than MX blues.
White ALPs are nice, but the feel of them varies keyboard to keyboard. On my Omnikey, its white ALPs are quite soft and clicky, as if they have been slightly dampened. On my Avant Stellar, it feels really dull and clicky, similar to dry black ALPS. Lastly, on my Macally MK96, the ALPs have a super crunchy and clicky feel, much crunchier than MX blues.
I doubt any two of those use the same switch.
The MacAlly MK96 that I've seen uses Alps.tw Type OA2 switches, which seem to be an older variant of the Himake AK-CN2 Alps clone:
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/mac_kb_wiz_s_alps.html
The OA2 switches I've got are definitely on the stiff side. Nowhere near as bad as those in my MiniTouch, but not great:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps.tw_Type_OA2
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Hua-Jie_AK_series
The Stellar appears to use simplified Alps switches, from the photos I've found. Alps SKBM White isn't bad, but it's not as good as complicated Alps.
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73068
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKBL/SKBM_series
PS it's "Alps", as in the mountain range. "ALPs" is like "EPSOn" or "SHARp". The company is Alps Electric Co., Ltd. of Japan.
The orange ALPS can develop something that seems like clickiness but is actually not. The tactile metal gets pulled on the upstroke of the switch and pops back and forth to make a click that is unique (not like white alps). It is not what I would call true click, as it only happens on the upstroke and is due to damage/misformation of the switch and not meant to exist in that stateI wish one of my Apple M0116 have this pseudo-click on every single switch. I've had a few switches with this feature that were are much more prominent than others with the feature.
However, even when boards have the same complicated white Alps switches, the feel of them could be different from keyboard to keyboard. As terrpn mentioned, his Omnikey is softer than his Focus. I assume he is dealing with Alps white complicated switches on both boards. Also, I've noticed that general condition and age may also affect the switch feel of the keyboards of the same switch and board. I know that some of the Omnikeys (of the same model and switch) I have still feel different from one another no matter how much I cleaned them up.The amount/nature of the click has to do with the precise shape of the click leaf. On switches which are used a lot (or more realistically on switches which are stored for a long period of time with keys depressed) the back of the click leaf gets bent into a bit of a curve, and the leaf angle is maybe reduced too. I should try taking some macro pictures of "good" and "bad" complicated white switches to show the difference.
Since KP = seems to be only mac, I'd imagine both would send the same code a mac would expect, but that if modern ones work on pc's it's because they can tell it's talking to a pc and instead send a numrow=.Well that’s why I’m curious whether the modern ones do work. If so, then I’d say that’s a bug in the iMate (a relatively minor bug, since the primary iMate audience is Mac users, but still).
Since KP = seems to be only mac, I'd imagine both would send the same code a mac would expect, but that if modern ones work on pc's it's because they can tell it's talking to a pc and instead send a numrow=.Well that’s why I’m curious whether the modern ones do work. If so, then I’d say that’s a bug in the iMate (a relatively minor bug, since the primary iMate audience is Mac users, but still).
I stripped the orange Alps from a dead Apple board and put them into a Dell AT101 and it is transformed into a truly great board.