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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: naikon996 on Wed, 11 March 2009, 17:55:53

Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: naikon996 on Wed, 11 March 2009, 17:55:53
Hi, I just heard the npr article about Unicomp possibly heading into
financial troubles. Would it be wise to stock up on M's to last a lifetime? ;)

Surely because they serve such a small market, would it actually be possible
for Unicomp to go bust?

Being slightly cynical here, but do you fellow geekhack
members believe this is just a publicity stunt just to increase sales for Unicomp?

Not that I condem this, they deserve every penny they can earn.
Even if they went, surely these things could be built in a toolshed or something.

I really hope Unicomp don't go out of business : (
Kudos to one of the last remaining quality keyboard manufacturers.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: naikon996 on Wed, 11 March 2009, 18:06:12
Quote from: webwit;24169
The Model M wikipedia entry says that Unicomp has troubles because retailers won't restock their boards, because they won't break. Part of the success of the Logitechs of this world is that their stuff goes bad.

True that, I have had a few mp3 players with "engineered to fail" quality over the
last few years. The moral of the story is that very high quality equipment seems
to do more financial damage than good. Wonder how long my Zen will last :)
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 11 March 2009, 19:22:28
All of a sudden I want to buy a unicomp spacesaver.....while I still can. I think they are fine keyboards. It would blow if they were no longer available.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 11 March 2009, 20:06:23
I want to buy one just to support the company.  I would hate to see a company that makes such a fine product go under, especially since it's due to their and their predecessor's fine "unbreakable" products.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: nerp on Wed, 11 March 2009, 20:31:42
I have one and I'm going to buy another. Love my Customizer 104. Going to swap out an old M for one.

Everyone stock up.

I might get a third to keep in the box and put into storage. Better safe than sorry.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Wed, 11 March 2009, 20:54:22
I was thinking about one of these Cherry keyboards (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=1391), when I get my income tax refund that is. But, now I'm thinking about a white SpaceSaver. I would hate to not have bought one if Unicomp goes out of business. Plus, I would also like to support Unicomp. I really love my Customizer 104.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 11 March 2009, 21:09:04
Quote from: patrickgeekhack;24189
I was thinking about one of these Cherry keyboards (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=1391), when I get my income tax refund that is. But, now I'm thinking about a white SpaceSaver. I would hate to not have bought one if Unicomp goes out of business. Plus, I would also like to support Unicomp. I really love my Customizer 104.


I was thinking of the white spacesaver also. I had a black one that I traded to another member. Kind of wish I kept it. While it does have a numpad, which I don't care for, I really liked the key feel of the BS switches. IIRC, the are somewhat muted compared to my model m's.

Its weird since I don't really need another keyboard but I may not have a chance of getting one again if unicomp goes by the wayside. After they are gone, it will end up being would of, could of, should of.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Wed, 11 March 2009, 21:38:24
Quote from: bigpook;24191
I was thinking of the white spacesaver also. I had a black one that I traded to another member. Kind of wish I kept it. While it does have a numpad, which I don't care for, I really liked the key feel of the BS switches. IIRC, the are somewhat muted compared to my model m's.

Its weird since I don't really need another keyboard but I may not have a chance of getting one again if unicomp goes by the wayside. After they are gone, it will end up being would of, could of, should of.


I can understand that feeling. I'm pretty sure my Customizer will be here in 10 years. Still, the feeling that I might not be able to get another one if the need arise is hard to digest. Moreover, I would like my daughter (3 months) to be able to use a good keyboard in a few years. I'm torn between getting another buckling spring or getting a Cherry keyboard. I can only afford one for now. My wife will kill me if I keep buying keyboards :)
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Wed, 11 March 2009, 21:43:58
By the way, for those who have the Unicomp SpaceSaver, what is the main difference between the Customizer 104 and it? I mean besides the width.  The reason why I did not get the SpaceSaver instead was I was afraid that the keys would be smaller, but I think I was wrong :(
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: FKSSR on Wed, 11 March 2009, 21:54:57
I want a Spacesaver, but I also need a Model M.  I was planning on getting the Model M, but maybe I should get a Spacesaver first...  choices!
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Wed, 11 March 2009, 21:57:16
Too many choices causes paralysis :)
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 12 March 2009, 04:38:40
Quote from: patrickgeekhack;24196
By the way, for those who have the Unicomp SpaceSaver, what is the main difference between the Customizer 104 and it? I mean besides the width.  The reason why I did not get the SpaceSaver instead was I was afraid that the keys would be smaller, but I think I was wrong :(


The quick answer is that the unicomp spacesaver is just overall smaller. The keys are still full size though. So it doesn't take up as much desk space as the customizer( and to be fair the customizer is as big as a Buick : ))
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 12 March 2009, 04:40:40
Quote from: FKSSR;24198
I want a Spacesaver, but I also need a Model M.  I was planning on getting the Model M, but maybe I should get a Spacesaver first...  choices!


I would think that if you really want to have both then get the spacesaver first. There are always lots of model m's available on e-bay. I don't think thats going to change any time soon either, unicomp on the other hand...
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: Mercen_505 on Thu, 12 March 2009, 06:13:40
What they need is a distribution deal with someone like Dell to supply keyboards for a special "rugged" model PC. Then an unbreakable keyboard is justifiable and they'll get some steady orders.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: FKSSR on Thu, 12 March 2009, 07:52:59
Rather than all of us just buying a keyboard or two, what would help the most is if we could get their keyboards into retailers by emailing retailers.  However, I'm sure Unicomp has already tried that, and it's not really too helpful to try such a strategy if you aren't in the company and have all the resources (marketing documents) Unicomp sales people and marketing people have.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: nerp on Thu, 12 March 2009, 08:21:20
Quote from: FKSSR;24224
Rather than all of us just buying a keyboard or two, what would help the most is if we could get their keyboards into retailers by emailing retailers.  However, I'm sure Unicomp has already tried that, and it's not really too helpful to try such a strategy if you aren't in the company and have all the resources (marketing documents) Unicomp sales people and marketing people have.


This is true.

I wish newegg would stock them. That would be pretty sweet, since it's really the de facto hardware site for almost everyone I know.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: FKSSR on Thu, 12 March 2009, 08:28:22
Newegg, TigerDirect, and Amazon would catch an astounding amount of people.

Amazon would be the easiest to get the keyboards on, but I don't know if that really helps since I'm not sure people do a lot of browsing there.  Most likely, people are searching Amazon for something they already know they want (except maybe in the case of books, CDs, and DVDs).
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: CX23882 on Thu, 12 March 2009, 08:43:31
I've found on numerous occasions that you can get some rather good deals on Amazon (better than eBay for sure) but whenever I've tried to sell things on there, I've had zero interest, even when I was selling for next to nothing.

I think that Unicomp needs a flashier website (not "website with Flash"!) because at present it doesn't look like a company selling to the public.  The keyboards are photographed in an un-flattering way and it just looks dated.  I'm not saying that I could do any better, and I'm sure that whoever developed the site did the best they could, but I think it could be improved.  The sites for other high-end keyboards have photos of aliens, robots or hot women (most gaming keyboards), or they go for the high-tech elitist route (like Das).  Unicomp's site doesn't go either way - it's mundane and doesn't really seem to target anyone.

They sell the boards on the power of the Model M name, and rightly so, but if people don't know what to expect from a Model M the claims on Unicomp's site are meaningless.  Their keyboards don't have a illuminated ultr@ p0wer fr@g button, so if you can get a cool keyboard which does, why would you choose something from the 1980's?  They need to aggressively market the Customizer as the brilliant piece of engineering that it is.

A lot of this could also be said about Cherry of course, but unless I'm mistaken, they have a lot of business customers, and they don't seem so dependent upon regular consumers.

I really want a Black USB Customizer, but at present, the exchange rate makes it prohibitively expensive.  I just hope that Unicomp can keep going.  I paid a lot for the PS/2 version, to have it shipped to the UK, but that was a couple of years ago.  Now, it's just too much money, and it's completely out of Unicomp's control.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 12 March 2009, 08:57:51
Quote
They sell the boards on the power of the Model M name


To piggyback on what you're saying, CX23882, they need to treat the Model M name like the legend it is.  I guess what I am saying is they need a site that markets the Model M as something more than an old-style keyboard.  It needs to be revered as the invincible, ultimate warrior standing guard over elite desktops for over 20 years, etc.  Or something a little less lame, but I think you get the point.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: CX23882 on Thu, 12 March 2009, 09:02:35
I completely agree.

How many other keyboard designs have survived almost 25 years?  In fact, how many things are on the market at all (computer or otherwise) that have been available for this length of time.  Okay, it's not exactly the same product that was launched in 1985 (86? not sure) but in my mind it's close enough.  The changes aren't like with the iMac which is completely unrelated to the original model.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: FKSSR on Thu, 12 March 2009, 09:05:57
If only ClickyKeyboards and Unicomp could work together there, but I think they are pretty much competitors, of sorts.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 12 March 2009, 09:09:23
Quote from: FKSSR;24262
If only ClickyKeyboards and Unicomp could work together there, but I think they are pretty much competitors, of sorts.


I have noticed that ClickyKeyboards business has gone down over the last few years due to a lack of 'boards they have.  I see more and more non-Model Ms on their site.  I found a couple of Cherrys there yesterday.  Maybe they could form an alliance.  I think both, though, could use slicker-looking sites.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Thu, 12 March 2009, 11:11:37
I've been telling others that Unicomp still makes keyboards based on the Model M on quite a few blogs, both English and French. I've even mentioned on my blog.

Now, I need to convince my wife that I need 2 other keyboards: a SpaceSaver and a Cherry. She completely understood my need for a Customizer 104, and even encouraged me to get my AT101W. But, now she cannot understand why I need more keyboards :) She's not totally wrong. I have a Customizer, an AT101W, a MacAlly IceKey (should not have bought this), a Microsoft Natural Elite, and a Microsoft wireless (which was on sale for $10 Canadian). She's using my weapon of choice: make the other party feel guilty. She is saying: "Do you know how many toys you can buy for Angelica?" She knows I love my daughter more than keyboards :)
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: FKSSR on Thu, 12 March 2009, 11:18:27
Doesn't your daughter need a new Spacesaver?  She's going to have to learn to type on something...why should it not be one of the best...It's for her future... :D
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: FKSSR on Thu, 12 March 2009, 11:23:34
you know... I just thought of something we could do...  We could take pics of the all black Customizer, write up some stuff comparing the Unicomps to the "almighty" Model M, and basically put together some things that Unicomp could use to sell their product "better."

Again, I'm not sure if this is really our territory to step on, but I think that it could be helpful...

If someone has pics of a Unicomp board completely disassembled as well as a Model M completely disassembled that could also be cool.  I like it when retailers show the guts of their keyboards, at least with a key off and multiple angles...
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: wheel83 on Thu, 12 March 2009, 11:41:38
I vote that Unicomp re-do their logo, add a real spacesaver keyboard, and offer blank legends on their model m models. I think these three things could help them a lot.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: FunkTrooper on Thu, 12 March 2009, 12:39:21
Quote from: FKSSR;24283
I like it when retailers show the guts of their keyboards, at least with a key off and multiple angles...


For Unicomp to do this, they should at least make all the keys on their keyboards the same type.  If you buy a Unicomp keyboard, you'll get two part keys on seven of the keys, and one part keys on all the others.  It just seems very unprofessional to do this, like the keyboards are just kinda thrown together with whatever parts they can find lying around.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: MANISH7 on Thu, 12 March 2009, 15:54:13
Quote from: FunkTrooper;24298
If you buy a Unicomp keyboard, you'll get two part keys on seven of the keys, and one part keys on all the others.

Really? Right now I'm typing on a 101 Customizer PS2. All the buttons have 2 parts...a key stem and a key cap. Maybe it is your particular model or something has changed since I purchased my current keyboard 5 months ago. Hope not. I have 2 new Unicomps in my closet but I'd can't check because I want to leave them NIB.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: wheel83 on Thu, 12 March 2009, 16:11:19
I have a Customizer 104 USB and its mostly 1 part.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: MANISH7 on Thu, 12 March 2009, 17:25:56
Quote from: wheels83;24325
I have a Customizer 104 USB and its mostly 1 part.

OK...then I better go check my Customizer...hold on...

Interesting. The Customizer 101 I purchased 5 months ago has two parts for every key except space bar, shift and the rest of the same keys that were one piece in the 139401 too. I'm happy with that.

The Customer 101 I purchased 1 week ago has 2 piece keys in the in the QWERTY, ASDF, ZXCV, `123 keys but the rest are one piece. This isn't really that important but for the sake of original design I prefer it to be 2 piece.

Hmmm...thanks for point this out to me. I felt like a sucker for getting the Customizer 101 PS2 right before the USB version became available. I was going to sell of my PS2 version for cheap and then order a new USB. Now I'm just going to keep the PS2 keyboard and order  a "back up" USB gut in case later on PS2 causes problems.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: CX23882 on Thu, 12 March 2009, 17:31:05
I purchased a black PS/2 105 key Customizer maybe 4 years ago and it had two-part keys for all keys except for the three Windows keys and the stabilised keys.  The key stems were differing colours too dependent on where they were on the board.  F and J were one colour, CTRL etc were another colour, alpha keys another.  Maybe they stopped making 2 part keys and for a while just used up old stock, but now they're making new single-part keys?

I regret selling that keyboard, but at least I've still got my Greenock-assembled Model M still.  If Unicomp are still around when things pick up I'll definitely be buying a new USB Customizer.

I wonder what a black Unicomp would look like if it was sanded smooth, spray painted black, lacquered and then polished (and rinse and repeat...)?  It'd sure be a fingerprint magnet but I think it might look pretty sweet.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: MANISH7 on Thu, 12 March 2009, 19:51:57
how come the companies that make Topre Realforce or HHKB are also not sharing the same plight? admittedly, i only heard about those keyboards one week ago on this forum so i don't know much about them. i realize that they have different aim / appeal than the model m's but...$250+ keyboards? sheesh! compared to that, model m's are much more affordable and that's why even in this forum you've got people with lots of model ms but holding back to buy a topre or hhkb. in my case i'll be waiting quite some time before i can get a topre whereas if it was a $70 model m i already bought an extra just for the heck of it.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: wellington1869 on Thu, 12 March 2009, 19:54:20
Quote

how come the companies that make Topre Realforce or HHKB are also not sharing the same plight?


good question, particularlly at 300 bucks a pop. (or maybe thats the answer, lol).
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 12 March 2009, 19:56:09
Maybe Topre and Realforce are large companies and keyboards are not their whole business?

As for Unicomp, all they have are keyboards.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: xsphat on Thu, 12 March 2009, 20:26:04
To clarify, Realforce is Topre's brand of keyboards — not two separate companies. And Topre makes a bunch of stuff besides keyboards. Check out their site (link is in the wiki I'm sure), it's a global company.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: wellington1869 on Thu, 12 March 2009, 20:39:18
so what unicomp needs is to be *bought* by a global company.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: Parn on Thu, 12 March 2009, 20:47:12
I want a USB   Endurapro 104
However,I read this from the Unicomp web
"Shipments of the USB model outside the USA are currently suspended awaiting government approval."
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: ozar on Thu, 12 March 2009, 21:21:01
Quote from: wheels83;24287
I vote that Unicomp re-do their logo, add a real spacesaver keyboard, and offer blank legends on their model m models. I think these three things could help them a lot.
lol... last year, when I went to buy my first Customizer 104, I almost didn't buy because of the logo.  Maybe they should put on a contest and accept entries for best logo (if they haven't done so already).  I agree with the other parts of your post, as well.

I'm not sure how good their rubber dome models are, but they probably need to be of high quality and promote those as well since lots of folks think that's all they need.  Repeat sales of those might help to keep them in business and supplement the sale of the higher quality buckling spring models.

It will indeed be a very sad day if they should go under.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: xsphat on Thu, 12 March 2009, 21:28:01
I called Jim Owens today and his message was:

"Hi, this is Jim Owens. I'm away from the office and don't know when I'll be back."

Don't know if that's truly as ominous as it sounds, but ...

I watch my company shrink every quarter, a lot of us do I'm sure, so maybe this is the time the buckling spring goes the way of the Alps (real non-simplified :p ).
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: ozar on Thu, 12 March 2009, 21:32:03
Quote from: xsphat;24348
I called Jim Owens today and his message was:

"Hi, this is Jim Owens. I'm away from the office and don't know when I'll be back."

That sounds extremely bad... wonder how long that message has been playing?

I've got to admit, I'd be afraid to order until I know more.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: xsphat on Thu, 12 March 2009, 21:42:40
I'm gonna call again tomorrow morning and see if I can get a human on the phone. If they are closing shop I have to order a cable from them like right flippin' now.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: iPwned on Thu, 12 March 2009, 21:49:48
What is the typical turn around time for orders with unicomp?  I placed an order on Monday, and haven't heard anything and my card hasn't been billed yet.  And now I'm finding out that the recession may have eaten them...great.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: ozar on Thu, 12 March 2009, 22:07:08
Both times that I've ordered, I received the keyboard within two days.

Oh, and in each case, they sent shipping/tracking information right away.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: iPwned on Thu, 12 March 2009, 22:24:31
well, then I can only hope that it's because I mistyped my card number.  Guess I'll have to try calling them.  I was looking forward to getting my hands on those endurapros.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: nerp on Thu, 12 March 2009, 22:56:35
Took about a week for them to process and send my order. My board was made the day AFTER I placed the order. I think that they're just backlogged, which is a good thing. I think every coffee-guzzling writer who grew up in the 80s heard that NPR story and ordered one like I did. :)
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: ozar on Thu, 12 March 2009, 23:00:22
I have a couple of the Customizer 104 boards already, but would really like to have a set of those totally black keys to put on one of them.  I didn't see them available on the website, so I guess a phone call is required to get them.

If they stay in business, I plan to purchase at least one more board, as well.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: iPwned on Fri, 13 March 2009, 07:22:44
Well, that's good to hear.  I'll wait until Monday before I start to worry then.  I did try calling just a little while ago and got the voice mail on both extensions, but at least it rang and answered as unicomp, which was comforting.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bhtooefr on Fri, 13 March 2009, 11:36:31
I believe the grey keys used on the black boards are mostly one-piece, except for a few keys like Ctrl.

Anyway, a few months ago, a friend of mine ordered a custom black blank Customizer 104 USB, and it took around a month to get, with poor feedback from Unicomp.

I will note that that does run counter to my two experiences with Unicomp, though - my EnduraPro 104 USB got here very quickly (made and shipped the day after I ordered it, IIRC,) and was repaired quickly when it needed repairs.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: iMav on Fri, 13 March 2009, 12:05:45
I've always received fast order fulfillment from Unicomp and they have always, if anything, over-communicated with me.

If Unicomp had ever delivered on their "Mighty Mouse 2.0" 'board, I think I would've spent a LOT of money with them.  I purchased the last numpadless, buckling spring keyboard to roll out of their location and have been waiting for something to take its place ever since.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: nerp on Fri, 13 March 2009, 15:33:41
Just ordered a SpaceSaver today. I like my customizer at home so much, I'm starting to realize the used M I got at the office just isn't quite as good. I dunno. Deep down, I just wanted an excuse to buy something. I'll throw the M in the closet. I'll make note of how long it takes for my order to get processed and sent and what the manufacture date is.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 13 March 2009, 15:48:32
Quote from: nerp;24399
Just ordered a SpaceSaver today. I like my customizer at home so much, I'm starting to realize the used M I got at the office just isn't quite as good. I dunno. Deep down, I just wanted an excuse to buy something. I'll throw the M in the closet. I'll make note of how long it takes for my order to get processed and sent and what the manufacture date is.


My Customizer was ordered late on a Wednesday night, and was at my door by noon on Friday. And it had to go through customs.

By the way,  I like the UNICOMP logo. However, I feel it looks better on a white keyboard than on a black one. Too bad my Customizer is black and grey.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: wheel83 on Fri, 13 March 2009, 16:35:53
I just got off the phone with one of the reps (not Jim).  Anyway he said there have been a HUGE demand in products (due to the npr and other articles out there).

He stated that over the last 5 weeks, there have been as many orders as he would normally expect in 8 months of business.

SO, it seems as though they don't have financial issues anymore for the time being at least.

Let's hope they are smart and start catering to the real deal IBM enthusiasts.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 13 March 2009, 16:37:30
Quote from: wheels83;24410
I just got off the phone with one of the reps (not Jim).  Anyway he said there have been a HUGE demand in products (due to the npr and other articles out there).

He stated that over the last 5 weeks, there have been as many orders as he would normally expect in 8 months of business.

SO, it seems as though they don't have financial issues anymore for the time being at least.

Let's hope they are smart and start catering to the real deal IBM enthusiasts.


wow, thats awesome.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 13 March 2009, 16:43:19
I fear that it might be short lived.  Once these people buy their 'boards, Unicomp will probably go back to their normal movement.  Let's hope, for Unicomp's sake, that word-of-mouth takes over from there, and their sales continue to grow.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 13 March 2009, 16:51:59
Quote from: itlnstln;24412
I fear that it might be short lived.  Once these people buy their 'boards, Unicomp will probably go back to their normal movement.  Let's hope, for Unicomp's sake, that word-of-mouth takes over from there, and their sales continue to grow.


Well, true that may be. But at least they get a blip of increased business.
Every little bit helps.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: lal on Fri, 13 March 2009, 16:52:49
Bad news, everyone!

(http://www.buddytv.com/usrimages/usr3323375/3323375_2437167239_3a2d9470b5.jpg)
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: ozar on Fri, 13 March 2009, 16:53:56
I'd be all over a Mighty Mouse (http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/pckeyboards_2043_1940640) (without stick) if they'd build one with buckling springs or some other type of good mechanical switches.  I've been tempted to buy anyway, but that's a lot of money for a rubber dome board.

Link:  http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/mightymouse1.html
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 13 March 2009, 17:13:45
Quote from: ozar;24417
I'd be all over a Mighty Mouse (http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/pckeyboards_2043_1940640) (without stick) if they'd build one with buckling springs or some other type of good mechanical switches.  I've been tempted to buy anyway, but that's a lot of money for a rubber dome board.

Link:  http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/mightymouse1.html

Same here, but I don't think that is happening anytime soon. I could deal with the mightymouse layout as is not so sure about the rubber domes though. Does anyone here have one of those and if so what do you think of it. Unicomp is pretty proud of it as they want $99 for it.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: iMav on Fri, 13 March 2009, 17:50:39
Quote from: bigpook;24418
Same here, but I don't think that is happening anytime soon. I could deal with the mightymouse layout as is not so sure about the rubber domes though. Does anyone here have one of those and if so what do you think of it. Unicomp is pretty proud of it as they want $99 for it.

I have several M4 and M4-1's.  They use, what I like to call, "buckling rubber sleeves".  they are actually quite nice to type on.  All the ones I own were purchased, NIB, from eBay for significantly less than Unicomp charges for a new M4 (ala trackpointless Mighty Mouse).
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 13 March 2009, 17:54:04
Thanks iMav. I remember now that there was a thread on this. Man, my memory is going.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 13 March 2009, 18:13:37
Quote from: bhtooefr;24383
I believe the grey keys used on the black boards are mostly one-piece, except for a few keys like Ctrl.

Anyway, a few months ago, a friend of mine ordered a custom black blank Customizer 104 USB, and it took around a month to get, with poor feedback from Unicomp.

I will note that that does run counter to my two experiences with Unicomp, though - my EnduraPro 104 USB got here very quickly (made and shipped the day after I ordered it, IIRC,) and was repaired quickly when it needed repairs.


What went wrong with your EnduraPro for it to need repairs? Sending mine for repairs can be a little bit complicated as I'll have to do a cross border shipment. Shipping back and forth would be like buying a new one.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 13 March 2009, 18:14:34
Quote from: webwit;24415
I agree and that's why I think going for the "real" IBM fans is not the right way, as this is what got them into trouble in the first place.

Look at the HHKB and Das Keyboard. They target young people, looking for quality. The HHKB is something a 20-something Japanese guy can have in his home, and not look like a fool to friends, but as someone who knows style. Likewise, Das Keyboard is something a European young guy can take to a Lan party and look cool and sophisticated in his keyboard choice. Just two examples.


Exactly.  They need to bring the old-school ruggedness in, and package it with modern tastes.  These youngsters, and people in general, want form along with (and in some cases, way over) function.  You can't keep the function crowd forever, especially when you build "unbreakable" products.  You can, however, target consumers with modern styling, and subsequently, introduce them to superior function.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bhtooefr on Fri, 13 March 2009, 18:26:21
patrickgeekhack: The mouse buttons had somehow gotten misaligned, and they didn't want me to open it up to realign them. I could've probably figured it out myself, but they weren't gonna help me fix it over the phone, so... I just went ahead and sent it in.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 13 March 2009, 18:26:42
I wonder what a "modern" model M would look like?
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 13 March 2009, 18:28:30
Quote from: bigpook;24425
I wonder what a "modern" model M would look like?


Unfortunately, it would probably still have to be somewhat bulky.  I might start with an M2/A01 (Japanese model) and go from there.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 13 March 2009, 18:34:48
Something like this?

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_bucklingspring_e.htm
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 13 March 2009, 19:10:18
Quote from: bhtooefr;24424
patrickgeekhack: The mouse buttons had somehow gotten misaligned, and they didn't want me to open it up to realign them. I could've probably figured it out myself, but they weren't gonna help me fix it over the phone, so... I just went ahead and sent it in.


Thanks. I guess, I don't have to worry about this part since I have the Customizer and not the Endura Pro.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 13 March 2009, 19:12:16
Quote from: itlnstln;24423
Exactly.  They need to bring the old-school ruggedness in, and package it with modern tastes.  These youngsters, and people in general, want form along with (and in some cases, way over) function.  You can't keep the function crowd forever, especially when you build "unbreakable" products.  You can, however, target consumers with modern styling, and subsequently, introduce them to superior function.


You've got a good point here. The first thing that I wife said when I opened the box for my Customizer was, "Wow! How old is that thing?" She had a hard time believing that it was a "modern" keyboard equiped with a USB connector.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: nerp on Fri, 13 March 2009, 19:48:49
Wow, I'm glad to hear that they're swamped with orders. I'll take a delay because of that!

In terms of how to modernize their products to appeal to a larger audience, I think we've talked circles around this subject; they can't design compelling new products because they have limited capacity to do so and the cost of upgrading/changing their manufacturing equipment is so hellaciously high, they can't afford the risk of pumping out a new product that won't sell like gangbusters.

They're in a catch-22. All we can hope for is that demand for the classic keyboards continues to grow and grow so they're rolling in dough and then can begin to innovate some.

I think revamping the store would be good. Make a little slicker and more professional looking, get some good flattering pictures of all their boards up there, stick some well-writen customer testimonials. .. their site should be a mecca for the joys of buckling springs. They should tell their compelling story, a small USA-based company trying to keep a high quality product alive. Factoids, interesting history, screenshots of famous movies with buckling spring keyboards in the background. . . Pictures of Customizers in swimwear on the beach. . .A serial novel about a man who runs off with his SpaceSaver for many hot nights in a las vegas hotel . . . Employee profiles (My name is Mary Beth and every Customizer we sell helps to pay for my child's lukemia treatments), Jim Owen's "office follies" -- memories of his crazy days back at IBM.

There's a lot of interest in the buckling spring culture. They could do a lot to make their site more magentic, like flypaper, for fans of the boards. It will only compel other people to enter the fray.

I do have to say that word of mouth is important. My recent obsession with buckling spring boards has convinced a few people I know to buy some for themselves. I'm about ready to order another customizer for my girlfriend. She was over the other day and commented on how awesome it felt to write on my keyboard. That's really all it takes.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: Hak Foo on Fri, 13 March 2009, 21:07:51
Quote from: nerp;24435
Wow, I'm glad to hear that they're swamped with orders. I'll take a delay because of that!

In terms of how to modernize their products to appeal to a larger audience, I think we've talked circles around this subject; they can't design compelling new products because they have limited capacity to do so and the cost of upgrading/changing their manufacturing equipment is so hellaciously high, they can't afford the risk of pumping out a new product that won't sell like gangbusters.


Unicomp's products do not appear to be bad, and compared to other "premium" keyboards, they're reasonably priced.  Their primary drawbacks are nonexistent marketing (indeed-- what is their marketing message, aside from relying on people knowing they inherited the legacy of IBM?) and products that are, frankly, dated looking.

But how much really needs to be re-tooled?  The basic proportions and layouts of a good standard keyboard don't really change.  If you took the guts out of a Customizer, slapped it in a Das Keyboard III-style glossy case, and threw some brighter LEDs and black keys on it (or if black is no-go, perhaps black lettering on a charcoal-grey key for the stealth look-- and then, and this is the important part-- got a few into the hardware press-- they'd sell a boatload of 'em at $90 each.

Hell, take the 122-key layout they sell for terminals, put it on USB, define some of the extra keys for media controls, and ship an app to define the others for macros, call it "Gamer Extreme Samurai-King Keyboard of Dark Evil Powers" or whatever, and charge $120.

None of this requires new technology, or even reworking anything with critical tolerances-- just possibly firmware changes and some new mould-work.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: itlnstln on Sat, 14 March 2009, 08:33:55
Quote from: bigpook;24428
Something like this?

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_bucklingspring_e.htm


Exactly.  I think I would start with that as my base 'board and redesign from there.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: itlnstln on Sat, 14 March 2009, 08:36:32
Quote
It doesn't have to be that way. The most commercially successful high-end keyboard of recent times, the HHKB series, sold over 300,000, and has no bright leds, neither is it glossy.

So it can be even less costly. Hell, all they need to do AFAIC is have that space saver in the colors of the four HHKB pro versions (white, black, label or no label) and do the logo in very subtle colors. On the other hand it's their business, and they are smart people, and it would be ignorant for an outsider to think they haven't tried or considered all options.


There is a difference between simple, smart styling and just plain old looking as webwit points out.  While a certain part of me likes throw-back/vintage hardware, I do like things to look pretty now and then.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 14 March 2009, 09:36:21
I would agree that the model m "looks" old. But I am ok with that. Having said that, I would love to have a Filco Tenless with BS keys. That would be nirvana for me.

But I don't expect that to ever happen. So while looking pretty would be nice my reality is that when I am typing I am looking at the screen. Not the keyboard. And what matters the most then is the feel of the keys and the quality of the display.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 14 March 2009, 09:39:00
But we're not talking about what a switchaholic wants.

We're talking about making BS keyboards mass-market friendly.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 14 March 2009, 11:13:55
Quote from: bhtooefr;24459
But we're not talking about what a switchaholic wants.

We're talking about making BS keyboards mass-market friendly.


Sorry, got off track. A more modern look would go quite aways to making it more appealing to the general public.  More LED's and Internet buttons could have a positive effect to.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: Hak Foo on Sat, 14 March 2009, 11:26:33
Quote from: bigpook;24463
Sorry, got off track. A more modern look would go quite aways to making it more appealing to the general public.  More LED's and Internet buttons could have a positive effect to.


I'm not sure about internet buttons, but definitely media buttons-- it's nice to be able to adjust the volume, or generally operate the media player running in the background, without having to give up the main application focus.

I've been using the remote from my TV tuner card for this (it works surprisingly well), but one less device is always good, especially if it means not having to replace remote batteries, or try to find a spot for the electric eye.

I think the Internet Button gimmick was long ago ruined by OEMs who assigned the buttons to the sites offering them the largest kickback, despite their lack of utility for the customer, and because it requires more programming than the typical user will do to set up.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: MANISH7 on Sat, 14 March 2009, 18:15:14
To say that the Model M looks old is like saying the sun looks old. The Model M is a timeless design. First of all, the key layout should stay exactly as it is because that is the standard. It's convenient for touch typists to use one layout that they are familiar with. This is a matter of functionality. I remember a review of the Topre 101 criticizing it for sticking to the IBM layout. They may as well criticize the new Porsche 911 for having the steering wheel in an "old" boring location - the driver's seat.

What we've learned in this thread kind of proves what Unicomp really needs - NOISE! It's the noise that has boosted sales at an amazing rate. Stuff like Das Keyboard or Steelseries 7G have lots of noise. Noise does not always mean substance. The problem with Unicomp is that they are all substance and very little noise. You need both. It is because of this factor alone that the Steelseries 7G has sold more to individual consumers than Unicomp. This is so despite the fact that the Unicomp has a far superior product and a product even more famous than Steelseris. Yes Steelseries is well known in the gaming circle but pretty much an entire generation used the Model Ms at one point.

Focus on noise for a year or two and then focus on innovative improvements on their existing line ups. Yes we need to be reasonable. Just a guess - how about Buckling Springs with lighter springs? The M-15 had 60 g, would 45 g be possible? That'd be interesting and very easy to implement (provided the design makes sense - will the M lose too much tactility or function?). An easy way to get started would be to revive the M-15 or the Model M mini and promote them as ergo products - which they are. Ergonomics is the future as computers become exponentially more ubiquitious and personal.

The HHKB looks to me like it is from Fisher Price. The Das keyboard looks very plain and dull. All black letters does not impress me. The Logitech G15 does not even have full sized keys. Yet these products are much more successful because some it maybe quality features but they all have a lot of noise.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: MANISH7 on Sat, 14 March 2009, 18:20:26
Model M looks old and Filco looks new???

Model M: Shiny, ivory white lustre. Classic, timeless look.

(http://www.mikecase.net/ModelM/IBM-Model-M-Keyboard.jpg)

Filco: Dull, dark, depressing black. Design is hardly more innovative than the M.

Even if you dont' agree with me on that - making the satisfactory change will be minor and easy.

I do agree that Media buttons or programmable buttons (even better) could help. Yet ergonomics is what'll separate the keyboards apart. Isn't this why people spend $250+ on Topres? Surely the Topre doesn't have more tactile or auditory feedback or durability than the M? I would hope it's ergonomics - the only reason I'll even take the effort to get my hands on a Topre and consider shelling out serious dough later down the road. Just a guess.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 14 March 2009, 18:22:08
MANISH7: Complaining about Unicomp not really updating the Model M's styling, though, is like complaining about Porsche keeping the engine behind the rear wheels.

Which is a legitimate complaint.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: wheel83 on Sat, 14 March 2009, 18:47:14
No way, the engine behind the rear wheels adds to 50:50 stabilization.  Porsche stylings haven't vastly changed, but they do progress with time.  And their logo has always remained the same; "awesome"

I would say Unicomps stylings compare to late 80s porsches. very weak.

i.e. grey interior on a black car haha

they need that black on black haha

and the logo is just a mess.  Making a logo can be so simple, yet they really knew how to make it look totally wack. I put black tape on mine as well, just so I wouldnt have to look at it.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 14 March 2009, 19:07:09
Quote from: MANISH7;24495
Model M looks old and Filco looks new???

Model M: Shiny, ivory white lustre. Classic, timeless look.

Show Image
(http://www.mikecase.net/ModelM/IBM-Model-M-Keyboard.jpg)


Filco: Dull, dark, depressing black. Design is hardly more innovative than the M.

Even if you dont' agree with me on that - making the satisfactory change will be minor and easy.

I do agree that Media buttons or programmable buttons (even better) could help. Yet ergonomics is what'll separate the keyboards apart. Isn't this why people spend $250+ on Topres? Surely the Topre doesn't have more tactile or auditory feedback or durability than the M? I would hope it's ergonomics - the only reason I'll even take the effort to get my hands on a Topre and consider shelling out serious dough later down the road. Just a guess.


I like the Filco tenless design. Though it may not be for everybody.
I use a model m mini as my daily keyboard and have no issues with the look of it. I was a bit over the top in my previous post. The last thing I want to see is a model m with internet buttons, back lighting or other novel crap. But thats me. I think the model m is an excellent design but I get the impression there are others that don't quite agree.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: MANISH7 on Sat, 14 March 2009, 19:12:19
EDIT: I was referring to having macro keys that can be programmed to do anything.

That can be programmed to do anything (volume up, down etc.). Clearly looks is a subjective, personal preference. I think that subjectivity can easily be swayed with marketing. But really these issues are minor and easy to resolve. The only reason I defended the looks is to somewhat emphasize that looks is not the biggest problem. Biggest problem is need for more marketing / advertising and later down the road focusing on ergonomics. Those two factors alone are what make or break keyboards IMO.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 14 March 2009, 19:28:04
Actually, the engine behind the rear wheels throws the weight TOO far rearward.

A mid-engine car has an optimal weight distribution of 42/58. (The approximate weight distribution of an average F1 car, IIRC.)

50/50 is "safe," but doesn't allow for optimal braking or the best traction for starting off, and IIRC 42/58 provides the best balance.

IIRC, the 911 nears 30/70.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 14 March 2009, 19:34:26
Quote from: MANISH7;24499
That can be programmed to do anything (volume up, down etc.). Clearly looks is a subjective, personal preference. I think that subjectivity can easily be swayed with marketing. But really these issues are minor and easy to resolve. The only reason I defended the looks is to somewhat emphasize that looks is not the biggest problem. Biggest problem is need for more marketing / advertising and later down the road focusing on ergonomics. Those two factors alone are what make or break keyboards IMO.


I won't argue that on the marketing/advertising.
At present does Unicomp even have a advertising/marketing strategy?  

Also, it wouldn't hurt to have a website with some punch to it either. The website they have now is really just awful.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: ed_ on Sat, 14 March 2009, 19:34:47
The Model M spacesaver's case is as good as any.  The straight edges surrounding the curve looks very nice.  The large top edge on the full-size Ms makes it look dated, as does the indicator lights' label, but those are not present on the mini.  The gray keys are still an old look.

Some updated color schemes would make it look as modern as any other keyboard, and would be enough to attract the same audience as the Das Keyboard, if they updated their site.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 14 March 2009, 19:36:20
Quote from: ed_;24502
The Model M spacesaver's case is as good as any.  The straight edges surrounding the curve looks very nice.  The large top edge on the full-size Ms makes it look dated, as does the indicator lights' label, but those are not present on the mini.  The gray keys are still an old look.

Some updated color schemes would make it look as modern as any other keyboard, and would be enough to attract the same audience as the Das Keyboard, if they updated their site.


I would love to have a model m mini in black : )
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: gwanghoops on Sat, 14 March 2009, 19:38:40
I believe there's no way a small company can make most of the geekhack members happy.  Everyone has their own personal preferences with keyboards -- switches, 104/84, color, key layout, texture, and shape.  Just try to get a group buy together!

Unicomp ought (stay alive in the short term) to:

- end of life most of their current products -- I can't imagine most of them driving profits
- "freshen" their decent products with this-century industrial designs to appeal to the crowd that doesn't remember the Model M from their younger days
- pay an intern to update their website and logo

of course, none of the above would really make any of us happy...unless they:

- made a tenkeyless version
- offered mechanical switch options
- USB hub
- smaller form factor
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: MANISH7 on Sat, 14 March 2009, 19:42:25
Quote from: bigpook;24501
I won't argue that on the marketing/advertising.
At present does Unicomp even have a advertising/marketing strategy?  

Also, it wouldn't hurt to have a website with some punch to it either. The website they have now is really just awful.

Exactly! Taking these measures is very doable, practical, and economical. The returns will be 10 fold greater! The key question is...why is Unicomp having 8 months of business in 5 weeks? What's attributing to that? Stick with that kind of approach!
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 14 March 2009, 19:52:07
Quote from: MANISH7;24505
Exactly! Taking these measures is very doable, practical, and economical. The returns will be 10 fold greater! The key question is...why is Unicomp having 8 months of business in 5 weeks? What's attributing to that? Stick with that kind of approach!


I think the increase in business is directly related to an NPR story that happened recently. Which is interesting in a way. I think that the people that listen to NPR would be the type to appreciate the old school model m's.  You would think that Unicomp would make note of this and expand upon it. Strangely, I don't really see this happening. : (
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: MANISH7 on Sat, 14 March 2009, 19:53:23
Quote
- pay an intern to update their website and logo


Easy for them to do.

Quote
- made a tenkeyless version


That shouldn't be much of a stretch for them given that they've offered such a product in the past and that their very own factory manufactured such products. I personally prefer the 10 key numeric pad.

Quote
- offered mechanical switch options


I don't think we'd ask them to do that. It's not practical. Unicomp cannot do everything. They can stick to their specialty - buckling springs. How about try to improve upon this technology? Give it a try with lighter springs so the keys are lighter and more ergonomic. This may add to the breakability factor :D

Quote
USB hub


USB interface is good enough and they've already implemented.

Quote
- smaller form factor


They'll get around to this with Spacesaver, Mighty Mouse, or Mini.

Making the small improvements to get 10 fold returns is very doable! They don't need to make a big turn from what they already have.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: MANISH7 on Sat, 14 March 2009, 19:56:00
Quote from: bigpook;24506
I think the increase in business is directly related to an NPR story that happened recently.


BINGO! This is what I meant by "noise". Look how successful it has been and easy to do.

Quote
You would think that Unicomp would make note of this and expand upon it. Strangely, I don't really see this happening. : (


Well then THAT is the problem! This is more important than "modern" design or making keyboards more breakable. The latter are indeed things to consider but this is the key issue. It's probably more cost effective too!
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 14 March 2009, 20:34:20
I think unicomp is the least business savvy company around. I cant help but blame at least some of their woes on their own utterly unimaginative approach to their business. I mean for petes sake just look at the incredible dumpiness of their website. Thats really a metaphor for how they run their entire operation.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: Hak Foo on Sat, 14 March 2009, 21:38:41
As a web developer, I have to agree on the website.  It mixes current products with no-longer-available products, there are limited product photos, needless dropdowns (perhaps for discontinued options) and clumsy navigation.  It honestly gives me that nervous "the site is still up solely because they paid their hosting 12 months in advance, even though the firm's long gone" feel-- resulting in severe nervousness when it comes time to insert the credit card number.

You could take a $20 canned Zen Cart theme and have them set up in probably less than 20 hours of work, and it would provide a more appealing retail environment.

If nothing else, why doesn't their site come up on unicomp.com?  While pckeyboard.com may have sounded like a good name, if people hear the brand name, their first instinct will be to go to unicomp.com, then maybe, once that doesn't work, hit Google.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: nerp on Sat, 14 March 2009, 22:12:31
Someone here have some free time and willing to do a demo site for them? :) We've got plenty of great photos of unicomp boards on this site. :)
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: zwmalone on Sat, 14 March 2009, 22:25:29
Quote from: nerp;24515
Someone here have some free time and willing to do a demo site for them? :) We've got plenty of great photos of unicomp boards on this site. :)

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=21373&postcount=8
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: gwanghoops on Sat, 14 March 2009, 22:37:11
Quote from: zwmalone;24516
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=21373&postcount=8


Love the new Unicomp logo!

Might as well just hack their website to "fix" it.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: zwmalone on Sat, 14 March 2009, 23:13:15
How about Unicomp in blue or Black and a red trackpoint where the "o" is supposed to go?
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 14 March 2009, 23:35:21
i think they should drop the unicomp name and create a new line (a new brand) of elite keyboards, and call that line something new entirely. "Unicomp" sounds like some old 70s mainframe company that went out of business.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: wheel83 on Sat, 14 March 2009, 23:55:15
If only people with all the capital and assets would listen to those with none.  

i.e. zwmalone created that mock website and logo in probably 15 minutes and just that change alone would probably net unicomp thousands in profits, but will they listen to our small niche group?  most likely not.  regardless, i wish them the best, as they are the only company keeping the buckling spring alive.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: xsphat on Sun, 15 March 2009, 01:07:19
The Model M DOES look dated because it is. The bastard sword is a timeless design because it can never be anything but what it is. A computer keyboard is not that way. And Unicomp's logo is like adding a green and blonde pompadour mullet to the top of the Model M. I think Unicomp doesn't need to be saved — they need to be stopped!
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: wheel83 on Sun, 15 March 2009, 01:47:52
the model m looks great with a beige set up. no doubt about it. its design is timeless. however its color is not. this isnt the 80 and 90s anymore.  everyones computer set-up these days is black.  and people obviously like black keyboards.

i am not one to talk though, as i prefer the old model m's and likes that it sticks out like a sore thumb.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: wellington1869 on Sun, 15 March 2009, 02:07:08
Quote from: xsphat;24523
The Model M DOES look dated because it is. The bastard sword is a timeless design because it can never be anything but what it is. A computer keyboard is not that way. And Unicomp's logo is like adding a green and blonde pompadour mullet to the top of the Model M. I think Unicomp doesn't need to be saved — they need to be stopped!


lol, blasphemy!  If there were other manufacturers of the bs switch then I'd say yes, put the sick horse down! But surely there must be a way to modernize the bs switch by wrapping it in a modern board...?
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 15 March 2009, 02:12:41
Quote from: xsphat;24523
The Model M DOES look dated because it is. The bastard sword is a timeless design because it can never be anything but what it is. A computer keyboard is not that way. And Unicomp's logo is like adding a green and blonde pompadour mullet to the top of the Model M. I think Unicomp doesn't need to be saved — they need to be stopped!


Sheesh... you put the keyboard=sword mental picture into my head.  The Model M is not a bastard sword-- it's one of those ridiculous swords, 120% the height and 200% the weight of a man, which only exists in the minds of manga artists and bad cosplay outfits.

And continuing the metaphor, I wonder if trying to sell the current Unicomp product line to the gamer market is like every weak manga plot where a 75kg hero is expected to swing said 200kg sword.  Maybe it doesn't work without manga physics.

Call me a snob, but I'd expect the most untapped market to be writers and programmers-- professional tools for professional work.  Give the sword to a swordsman.  This is a market which can be pursued with even fewer changes to the product mix, as the "corporate standard keyboard" can get away with being functional and not pretty.  Fund some questionable research.  If you can say "Lasts 10 times as long in heavy-duty usage, covers its cost back and then some", or "reduces strain caused by beating the keys down to get feedback", those are selling points.

Of course, I could well be very wrong here.  After all, the enthusiast-gamer market has kept nVidia and ATI in business for quite a while now.  However, if they're appealing to a non-business market, the sword dangling over Unicomp's head is that whatever patents they hold are probably running out pretty soon.  Any problems they have with gauging the much-more-fickle mainstream market is "buffered" by the lack of many directly competitive products.

I've thought about ordering a Customizer 104 since I came here, but honestly, if someone else sold a keyboard with the feel I've grown accustomed to from a 1391401 with some of the following:

* Gloss black and/or black-on-black stock finish.
* Media keys
* A few USB ports on the back so I can daisy-chain a mouse and tablet

I'd buy that instead almost certainly.  The cutesy story aside (I don't care that you're an American company or a small business, from the perspective of wanting a good keyboard) the only edge Unicomp has in my mind is that they're a known quantity-- I don't have to try to figure out "how will these type of keys feel" or risk tossing $50 into the ether only to get the wrong sort of switches.  When other buckling-spring choices appear, that's gone.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: xsphat on Sun, 15 March 2009, 02:19:51
Quote from: wheels83;24526
the model m looks great with a beige set up. no doubt about it. its design is timeless. however its color is not. this isnt the 80 and 90s anymore.  everyones computer set-up these days is black.  and people obviously like black keyboards.

i am not one to talk though, as i prefer the old model m's and likes that it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Not everyone's computer is black these days. Computers, especially netbooks and gaming PCs, are offered in enough colors that seeing a red or green one isn't a big deal, and then there's Apple's computers ...

And the color isn't the issue here. The Model M's design looks old, and I do like the look of it, but I don't think public wants something that big, so for mass consumption Unicomp would have to make significant changes to the current case designs they have.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: xsphat on Sun, 15 March 2009, 02:26:00
Quote from: Hak Foo;24528
The Model M is not a bastard sword-- it's one of those ridiculous swords, 120% the height and 200% the weight of a man, which only exists in the minds of manga artists and bad cosplay outfits.


You're awesome. I love it, I actually did laugh out loud.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: bhtooefr on Sun, 15 March 2009, 14:04:16
The thing is, there are other buckling spring choices, and they SUCK ASS. See those crappy Sheng Ya or whatever they're called keyboards.

And, any patents that Unicomp has except for POSSIBLY their implementation of a pointing stick are expired by now.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 15 March 2009, 14:21:23
Quote from: bhtooefr;24545
The thing is, there are other buckling spring choices, and they SUCK ASS. See those crappy Sheng Ya or whatever they're called keyboards.

I didn't know there were other choices.  But I suppose "a keyboard that feels like a M" and "a buckling-spring keyboard" may usually intersect but not always.

From what I can tell from a brief scan, I don't think the Ya Sheng product was built or marketed as anything but "another generic cheap keyboard" though.

I suppose one asset Unicomp does have is a bit of "corporate identity pride".  They are the buckling-spring keyboard firm, pretty much, and if they blow that, there's nothing else for them to rest on, while if, for example Lite-On makes a lousy keyboard, they can just sell CD drives instead.  They can't afford to scrimp on the qualities that are their selling point.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: ozar on Mon, 16 March 2009, 13:26:02
Further confirmation regarding Unicomp and their financial status...

I just got off the phone with Jim Owens after ordering another Unicomp keyboard and he says they've been quite busy recently.  He seemed rather upbeat about everything as well, so I don't think they are dying off, at least not yet.

He said the new board might reach me as soon as Thursday or Friday, so we'll see how that goes.
Title: Unicomp financial issues
Post by: Chloe on Mon, 16 March 2009, 14:02:25
Quote from: Hak Foo;24549
From what I can tell from a brief scan, I don't think the Ya Sheng product was built or marketed as anything but "another generic cheap keyboard" though.


They were cheap, but sold as "mechanical touch".

My main issue with the Ya Sheng/Can Tech is the inconsistency in feeling across the board. Keys are light and have overtravel, but some are more sensitive than others and don't always click, others feel mushy. So you are sort of forced to bottom out to compensate, which defeats the point of mechanical switches, at least to me anyway.