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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: jehovazilla on Thu, 27 February 2014, 15:55:03
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First, Hello, I'm new here.
I've decided to jump into the mechanical keyboard master race club, and have been doing some research as to where to start. This is pretty much what Iv'e found. Yes, I'm a geek, I make charts before purchasing things, you should see my desktop speaker footprint cardboard cutout collection. Back in the 90's I owned a Model M, so I'm not really new to the concept of mechanical keyboards, sadly it died in 1999, and I had to use it to bludgeon inanimate objects, and then hang it from a tree in the local park. Never was able to replace it, and settled for a string of $9 crap keyboards from Frys (I type like a gorilla, so they die quick). Now I have an old, crap, Logitech G11 with a plethora of annoying function keys that I never use but to hit on accident.
I've done a ton of research, and hit a bit of an impasse. I can't really come to a final conclusion since I don't have much experience in these matters, and have obviously never touched the products in question. I can't try them locally either, so... I need to rest on the experience of people who know WTH they are talking about. Namely, you and Reddit.
I'm sorry if this post in annoying or misplaced. Ignore it, or tell me to delete it if it violates some rules, or is just plane obnoxious.
And, thank you, in advance, for your time and help!
Criteria:
+ Has to be a full keyboard (104 key). Need Numpad [ins] for gaming, use numpad regularly.
+ Has to have Cherry Blue switches, want "click" for typing.
+ Blue or no backlight, for consistency.
+ Needs to be sturdy, not paying ~100+ for a keyboard I need to replace.
+ Preferably has media keys, or functions like it.
- No "Gaming" or Macro keys, or at least unobtrusive ones I can ignore.
- Can't be ugly gimmicky looking "gamer" hardware.
- Price range.. $0-$150ish, a bit uncomfortable at the top end.
+ Needs to be from a reputable, US shipping, seller
- Needs to be a trustworthy brand
Models:
- CM Storm QuickFire XT - NONEXISTENT
- CM Storm QuickFire XT Stealth - NONEXISTENT
? Corsair Vengeance K70 Blue/Blue - NONEXISTENT or 129 (is NCIX reputable?)
- Ducky Shine 2 - NONEXISTENT
- Ducky Shine 3 - NONEXISTENT
? Ducky Shine Zero - $109? (is Micro Center reputable?)
+ Das Keyboard Pro - Glossy = Eww?; $129, $139
+ TT eSports Poseidon - Cheap brand? What do you get for slightly more? Backlight looks a bit much; $79, $89
+ WASD V2 - Customizable, Expensive, worth it?; 150
+ Max Keyboard Nighthawk x7 - not many reviews, customizable, expensive; $145+
- Leopold Fullsize Blue - NONEXISTENT
- Filco - Too expensive.
Am I missing something?
Commentary:
Actual options seem to be limited to the WASD, Das Keyboard, and Nighthawk. Might be expanded to K70 is NCIX is a reputable retailer, and the Corsair isn't just gaming claptrap, but also a serious keyboard. Might also include Ducky Zero DK2108S if Micro Center is a reputable dealer, and it is a quality keyboard, I have read some mixed reviews on Ducky.
Both the Nighthawk and WASD are expensive. The Nighthawk doesn't have many reviews, and I don't know if it also made for typists as well as gaming, as both are important (with typing being more important). The Das Keyboard seems to have excellent reviews, but the glossy finish might be a minus. The WASD is generally positively reviews, but it is the most expensive one within my price range, meaning expectations are highest. The Ducky is an entry level keyboard, what exactly does that mean, is there a sacrifice in quality? The "eSports" one is dubious, since I don't really trust the Thermaltake brand, and it is the cheapest by far, making me wonder what was sacrificed for cost.
Both WASD and Max have, by all accounts, good support. I'm guessing this isn't true (by necessity) of the foreign (Ducky) or massproduced ones (Corsair). I might be wrong.
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Here's an annoying answer: Buy a Filco. I'm a Filco Fanboy.
But seriously? I'd get a Ducky Shine 2 or 3 from MK.com. Mechanicalkeyboards.com is good with their Ducky support. And I've been pleasantly surprised at how good Ducky's quality is since I finally opened one up.
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Why not buy another model M? Plenty available. If you want new, you can look at unicomp!
Else, Filco is really nice even if pricey.
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Another vote for Filco :))
On another note I'd go with Ducky out of those, not sure about the shine but theres one with PBT caps which is nice. MechanicalKeyboards.com is reliable site so just purchase from them.
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I concur. Either get a Filco Majestouch-2 104-key or a Model M.
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Filco seems very expensive. I haven't seen one matching my criteria under $195, and I really can't justify that (and my girlfriend would skin me alive). The Ninja ones are pretty darn sexy though.
Mechanicalkeyboards.com doesn't have any fullsize Duckys with Blue Switches and/or None or blue backlights. I've looked several hundred times now, just to make sure I haven't missed one. I'd love a Shine 2 or 3, they were my first choice when this idea was gestating, but it seems that they just don't exist.
I don't know if I could do a Unicomp or M today. Those things were LOUD and beefy, if I remember right. I might be becoming a wuss in my old age. Also, those Unicomps are the ugliest things I've ever seen, they managed to make the M look worse. Its also hard to find a good M, the cheaper ones (~100ish) are dubious, and for something that MIGHT be good quality your looking at @200+. The only way I'd buy one is if I could handle it first.
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I'm sure if you want a ducky or CM XT its just a matter of time before more stocks come in. I have an XT that I could put blues in and sell you for cheap but I don't know if I've got enough blues left.
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Yeah, it's too bad you limited yourself to MX Blues. Personally, I can't stand them, but to each his own. If you could learn to type on Browns, Reds, or Blacks, your current choices would open up a bit.
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OP you might consider a keycool full size board with blues or a
rosewill (or not after reading jd's comment below). I personally have no experience with them, just another one to add to your list :D
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OP you might consider a keycool full size board with blues or a rosewill. I personally have no experience with them, just another one to add to your list :D
I can't recommend Rosewill. The last one I bought (the one I'm typing this post on at work), has shoddy soldering, and three pads broke off from the traces DURING NORMAL USE. I had to open it and repair those pads/traces to make it function correctly again.
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I'm not sure of Rosewill, that name doesn't say "quality" in my head. I know of them, like Thermaltake, of making somewhat dubious PC components. I've never bought anything by them because they never really inspired confidence. Like the Madcatz of PC hardware.
I haven't seen anything positive or negative about the Keycool keyboards. Perhaps they are awesome, but I pretty much have to go buy online reviews and advice, so...
Is the K70 any good? It was pretty much the first one I looked at (I like the looks, mostly, and I'm a fan of the elevated keys, it reminds me of an old Apple keyboard I had, so easy to clean).
What about the Cooler Master CM Storm Quickfire Ultimate?
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Sorry for spamming...
So, I think I have it down to 4...
The Ducky DK2108S
The Max Keyboard Nighthawk x7
The WSAD
Or the CM Quickfire XT...
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Go with the Ducky or the CM if its cheaper, I don't know about the Max but the WASD is generally expesive if you don't need custom keycap design...
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I've heard nothing but good things about the CM XT. That being said, working on a QFR leads me to recommending you *not* mod them. Keep it stock. The PCB is not too great to work with...or maybe I'm just hamhanded :(.
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Sorry for spamming...
So, I think I have it down to 4...
The Ducky DK2108S
The Max Keyboard Nighthawk x7
The WSAD
Or the CM Quickfire XT...
Hmm, I dunno what to say.
Ducky is sucky.
The Max Keyboard Nighthawk x7? I have no idea what this is.
WASD. I guess not a bad choice.
CM Quickfire XT. Maybe the best choice on your list, based upon what other GH'ers say. [I don't have a CM keyboard.]
Why not get a Filco? Price? Pish Posh. $195 expensive. *shrug* meh. When you spend $10K on keyboards, then you get to complain about prices. Until then, you should realize that you get what you pay for, and Filco's are expensive due to high quality.
My last bit of serious advice: if you buy the CM Quickfire XT, you'll probably be happy with it, but you'll end up buying a Filco in about 2 months anyway. So jest get the Filco now, and save yourself some money and time.
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you'll end up buying a Filco in about 2 months anyway. So jest get the Filco now, and save yourself some money and time.
QFT
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...
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My last bit of serious advice: if you buy the CM Quickfire XT, you'll probably be happy with it, but you'll end up buying a Filco in about 2 months anyway. So jest get the Filco now, and save yourself some money and time.
LOL, I'm having flashbacks to my last big purchase... A rangefinder camera. The basic advice I got was "Buy a Leica, if you don't you will, if you buy a cheap one, you'll buy a new one soon... for $7,000". Needless to say, that was a year ago, and I still haven't found 7,000 extra dollars to spend on a camera, and probably won't ever.
Not bashing your reply, but I always find it amusing.
On a serious note, that Filco Ninja is about as sexy as I can imagine a keyboard being. I just don't know if I can really justify spending $230+shipping for it. Poking around, it seems to jump up to almost $300 on some sites. I can't really do that.
Is there a site, that is reputable, that ships Stateside, that offers them at a fairer price? I poked around a bit, and it doesn't seem they are represented by the usual sites I looked at for everything else.
The Coolermaster keyboards are actually good (or at least decent)? I'm a bit surprised.
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Sorry for spamming...
So, I think I have it down to 4...
The Ducky DK2108S
The Max Keyboard Nighthawk x7
The WSAD
Or the CM Quickfire XT...
I'm not a huge ducky fan. You can get a CM board for the same price, and I like those better
Max keyboard uses the same OEM as razer blackwidow, so that's out.
WASD has lame build quality. It costs a lot because of the customization options.
QFXT is pretty good. It's no Filco, though...
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I don't have a Filco, but I do have an HPE 87, which I heard is basically a rebranded Filco. I can attest to the quality of this Filco clone, which is pretty good. I have a feeling this board will last me a looong time, even though I use it quite a bit. Everything just feels snappy and responsive. My Ducky Shine 3 doesn't even feel this way. I realize this is all subjective once again, but I have to echo the sentiments of the above posters. Also, co-star stabs are the best. One drawback for me is that the usb cable isn't detachable. If that doesn't bother you, Filco will provide you with a solid board for many years.
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Filco.
Like so many others have said, it saves you time and money in the long term. It's Leica equivalent in keyboards.
If you are still afraid, then CM Quickfire rapid is another good option.
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I've also used Filco before. And since you don't seem likely to be heading for Model F or M, my answer is also Filco.
By now you should realize that you're not getting away from a Filco recommendation. So just hang around, watch the classifieds. You'll get a Filco under 150 shipped for certain. In fact under 120 shipped is quite likely.
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model m for playing? i did try that kinda hard...... anyways go with filco or if it's all about $ ducky then.
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both microcenter and ncix are huge companies. definitely reputable.
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model m for playing? i did try that kinda hard...... anyways go with filco or if it's all about $ ducky then.
Fun fact: In the 90's I did all my gaming on a Model M, with a early touch pad (and later a trackball), and I was better than I am now. Granted, thats probably because I'm old now, and my twitch skills are less twitch and more palsy. I probably would get another, but I'm not sure how much I'd like it now. It might be too much keyboard for me to handle. That and I don't trust ebay with used, 30 year old, mechanical devices. I might to browsing some second hand stores this weekend though, I might get lucky (if its cheap, and I don't like it now, I can possibly even turn a profit).
I guess I'll keep poking around for a Filco then. Do they have any authorized dealers, or people who regularly carry them? I really can't find much online about where to get them consistently.
Again, thank you all for your advice. Very helpful.
Edit: Does anyone have an experience with Aoyama & Co? They seem to be one of the only places with the Filco Ninja 104 key with Blues in stock?
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Surprised the Monoprice Mechanical isn't listed. You can get one for around $60. It doesn't have media keys but meh.
Edit: Looks like you may have to buy it from Amazon if you want this particular keyboard and it's selling for $70 there.
http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-Cherry/dp/B009TD83YY
Either way - seems like a solid board. No frills, full size, blue switches pretty much fits the bill.
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I can recommend keycools. The build quality is great, and they have POM keycaps on the backlit ones, which are pretty thick. Or you could get a non backlit one and i *think* they are PBT.
You would probably have to get one from aliexpress, and a lot of them come over from China.
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TheKeyboardCo is the main distributor for Filco in the West. Although their Amazon stock seems depleted, and I haven't checked their official (UK-based) site to check availability there.
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I can recommend keycools. The build quality is great, and they have POM keycaps on the backlit ones, which are pretty thick. Or you could get a non backlit one and i *think* they are PBT.
You would probably have to get one from aliexpress, and a lot of them come over from China.
How does POM feeling compare with PBT's?
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I can recommend keycools. The build quality is great, and they have POM keycaps on the backlit ones, which are pretty thick. Or you could get a non backlit one and i *think* they are PBT.
You would probably have to get one from aliexpress, and a lot of them come over from China.
How does POM feeling compare with PBT's?
I will be honest, I've never typed on PBT. But it feels a lot nicer than typing on ABS. Although the switch types I've used have all been really different so I've probably not had the right situation to compare the two.
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I can recommend keycools. The build quality is great, and they have POM keycaps on the backlit ones, which are pretty thick. Or you could get a non backlit one and i *think* they are PBT.
You would probably have to get one from aliexpress, and a lot of them come over from China.
for keycool, you can just ask a fellow geekhacker, Xuanwumen. He's selling them pretty cheap.
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Xuanwumen has a shop on aliexpress :D that's why i said there, or you can PM him and get direct quotes so he doesn't have to pay any shop fees, which is probably what I'm going to do when I buy a new KC this month... oops...
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What is POM? I know what ABS and PBT is, but POM is new to me.
I'm not sure about Monoprice, its another brand that doesn't really make me feel confident. I might be totally off-base, again...
Its amazing how much there is to the mechanical keyboard thing... To summarize my what my girlfriend told me about this quest; "its just a damn keyboard, whats the big deal."... In the beginning I just knew I missed my M, and the I'd like a mech keyboard. Now my head is spinning, and I'm cursing the tardiness of the Chinese economy and international shipping.
I think I'm going to poke around for a bit longer, just to see if stock gets better, before settling. I going to sit and wait for a Filco, I suppose. The keyboardco has them for around 190, with shipping, though I'm not sure if I picked the right option for international shipping or not. NCIX has them for Canada, but apparently doesn't ship them across the border (which is odd, and slightly annoying since other products can be shipped Stateside).
I haven't found much on Keycool or HPE. I've seen some reviews for the tenkeyless HPE, but nothing really on 104.
Thanks again.
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From what I gather from using my KC, they are somewhere in between ABS and PBT caps in terms of thickness, but compatible with backlights.
Maybe? I may be totally wrong.
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What is POM? I know what ABS and PBT is, but POM is new to me.
I'm not sure about Monoprice, its another brand that doesn't really make me feel confident. I might be totally off-base, again...
Its amazing how much there is to the mechanical keyboard thing... To summarize my what my girlfriend told me about this quest; "its just a damn keyboard, whats the big deal."... In the beginning I just knew I missed my M, and the I'd like a mech keyboard. Now my head is spinning, and I'm cursing the tardiness of the Chinese economy and international shipping.
I think I'm going to poke around for a bit longer, just to see if stock gets better, before settling. I going to sit and wait for a Filco, I suppose. The keyboardco has them for around 190, with shipping, though I'm not sure if I picked the right option for international shipping or not. NCIX has them for Canada, but apparently doesn't ship them across the border (which is odd, and slightly annoying since other products can be shipped Stateside).
I haven't found much on Keycool or HPE. I've seen some reviews for the tenkeyless HPE, but nothing really on 104.
Thanks again.
POM, Polyoxymethylene (Acetal).
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What is POM? I know what ABS and PBT is, but POM is new to me.
I'm not sure about Monoprice, its another brand that doesn't really make me feel confident. I might be totally off-base, again...
Its amazing how much there is to the mechanical keyboard thing... To summarize my what my girlfriend told me about this quest; "its just a damn keyboard, whats the big deal."... In the beginning I just knew I missed my M, and the I'd like a mech keyboard. Now my head is spinning, and I'm cursing the tardiness of the Chinese economy and international shipping.
I think I'm going to poke around for a bit longer, just to see if stock gets better, before settling. I going to sit and wait for a Filco, I suppose. The keyboardco has them for around 190, with shipping, though I'm not sure if I picked the right option for international shipping or not. NCIX has them for Canada, but apparently doesn't ship them across the border (which is odd, and slightly annoying since other products can be shipped Stateside).
I haven't found much on Keycool or HPE. I've seen some reviews for the tenkeyless HPE, but nothing really on 104.
Thanks again.
monoprice has a really bad rap.
keycool is basically CoolerMaster with better keycaps but no marketing outside East Asian (hence little exposure). Xuanwumen now has a discount so you should check it out.
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How exactly do I find a specific shop on Aliexpress? That site is a bit of a pain to navigate. I've tried to find Xuanwumen explicitly, but no dice.
Its really odd how hard some of these things are to find. If I actually find something I want, I might just frame it on the wall instead of hooking it up and using it. You'd think there'd be a bigger market for them. This might be my most vexing computer purchase in a long time. I feel like these manufactures make something like seven keyboards per batch, especially full keyboards with blues. There is hardly any stock anywhere, and you have to dig down to the murky bottom of the interwebs to find anything available at all. I'm not complaining, I'm sure it will all be worth it in the end. I'm more bemused than anything. I expected, like with most things, doing some cursory research, hitting up Amazon, hitting "buy" and having something awesome sitting on my porch in two days.
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xuanwumen is a user here on geekhack.
Also, I'll have to reiterate getting the Filco MJ2. I've seen those get sold used regularly for about $110-130 (used). I think one user here is even trying to sell his beige full-bodied MJ2 for $120. I personally wouldn't buy one at $190, because for only a tiny bit more you could have gotten a Realforce or some topre board.
For $150 new I would consider it one of the best cherry MX boards you can buy. You say price is an issue but you're considering something like WASD or Ducky which really isn't much less. This keyboard is something you'll be using for years upon years and possibly even decades. Why not pay the premium now to get higher quality now instead of settling with something "less"? If you're really inisistant on avoiding Filco I'll also recommend the keycool boards being said here. The aforementioned user is offering new keycool 104-key cherry MX boards for I think around $100, and the quality of keycool boards are generally well regarded.
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I would get a Ducky, maybe look at the Razer Black Widow also.
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http://www.aliexpress.com/store/818123/search?SearchText=keycool
That is the link he has provided me for his shop. However, he has told me he can sell me the 108 dyesub winter edition (priced at $134.68 on the site) at $96 dollars, so if you have a look on there, be sure to send him a PM before you buy anything.
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Thought about getting a WASD Code (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/code-keyboard/code-104-key-mechanical-keyboard-mx-green.html#ad-image-0) board ? Personally I prefer MX green over blue. My previous board was a Unicomp ("modern" M) and before that I used a "real" M for about 10 years. For $150 you could get a WASD V2 (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/mechanical-keyboard/wasd-v2-104-key-custom-mechanical-keyboard.html#ad-image-0) w/ blue switches and customized caps.
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Sorry for continuing this. I've pretty much have it down to Filco, and if I can't find one the Keycool 108. I've run into a bit of a stumble though, I can't find ANY info on the full size Keycool, no reviews, no write ups. Plenty on the TKL versions, but nothing at all on the full size one.
Also, just to ask again; is Aoyama&Co a reputable source, anyone ever deal with them? It seems to be the only place I can find a Filco that isn't well over $200 right now. But I can't find any information about them.
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Have you considered buying from the classifieds here? You can find almost NIB board for much much lower price
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Have you considered buying from the classifieds here? You can find almost NIB board for much much lower price
I've been poking around, but so far no dice. Though I really wish I wasn't dead set on getting a full keyboard, it seems that going TKL widens your options exponentially.
I'm also sad that thekeyboardco is out of Blue Ninjas...
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There's a reason why this site is called wallet hack, picky people usually pay more to get what they want...
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I'm also sad that thekeyboardco is out of Blue Ninjas...
(http://i.imgur.com/hjjD6Qm.png) (http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/white-filco-ninja-majestouch-2-nkr-click-action-usa-keyboard.asp)
...but you meant in black, right?
Also, you can get what you want right now (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Z0XS0K/), you just may have to pay a little bit of a premium for that.
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I would say get the Ducky 2108. I have the Filco and the Ducky 2108 (which I got from Microcenter) and I don't think the Filco is worth the $50 price premium. The Ducky is a very well built board and rivals the Filco in build quality. I didn't believe it either until I typed on the Ducky in the store. The only real difference between the boards are the stabilizers. The Ducky has Cherry stabs and the Filco has Costar stabs, and tbh I am not sure which I like better.
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The white Ninja doesn't look quite as awesome. Its been a long time since I owned a white board, but I seem to remember that the keys got a bit nasty looking after a bit. Even with cleaning it seemed like dirt got into the plastic itself on the keys. That might have been thanks to cheap keys, though, since I think it was a $9 generic board in a plain brown box from Fry's. My Model M did this too, but I was a teen and lived at my keyboard (and worse, smoked) so that might have been the problem.
The have "lots" of regular black keyboards with the right switched, I might grab one tonight (by grab I mean wait an uncomfortably long time for international shipping) after sussing out financing, and seeing if my S.O. isn't going to flay me alive for spending more money on geeky stuff.
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Thanks to the watchful eye of jdcarpe, a Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja with Blues is someplace in the Great Nation of Canadia with my name on it.
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How exactly do I find a specific shop on Aliexpress? That site is a bit of a pain to navigate. I've tried to find Xuanwumen explicitly, but no dice.
Its really odd how hard some of these things are to find. If I actually find something I want, I might just frame it on the wall instead of hooking it up and using it. You'd think there'd be a bigger market for them. This might be my most vexing computer purchase in a long time. I feel like these manufactures make something like seven keyboards per batch, especially full keyboards with blues. There is hardly any stock anywhere, and you have to dig down to the murky bottom of the interwebs to find anything available at all. I'm not complaining, I'm sure it will all be worth it in the end. I'm more bemused than anything. I expected, like with most things, doing some cursory research, hitting up Amazon, hitting "buy" and having something awesome sitting on my porch in two days.
Seems too late to see this thread. Well, i do have some new models and limited mx clear versions of keycool keyboards in stock. And welcome for any inquiry.
If it is helpful, i can try my best to offer data about keycool for your reference .