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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: shaaniqbal on Fri, 07 March 2014, 02:08:43

Title: Upside down "Cherry" logo on my CM Quickfire TK with red switches?
Post by: shaaniqbal on Fri, 07 March 2014, 02:08:43
The logo on each switch base is upside down. Is it meant to be that way? It's a German layout.
Title: Re: Upside down "Cherry" logo on my CM Quickfire TK with red switches?
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 07 March 2014, 02:13:30
Are the LED holes at the top of the installed switches?  Do you have pictures?
Title: Re: Upside down "Cherry" logo on my CM Quickfire TK with red switches?
Post by: shaaniqbal on Fri, 07 March 2014, 02:56:09
Yes, the LEDs are at the top. It looks like this:

(http://deskthority.net/w/images/5/5f/KBC_Poker_II_--_MX_Red_with_green_LED.jpg)

I suppose they're all this way?
Title: Re: Upside down "Cherry" logo on my CM Quickfire TK with red switches?
Post by: PointyFox on Fri, 07 March 2014, 03:20:38
Quote from: shaaniqbal on Fri, 07 March 2014, 02:56:09
Yes, the LEDs are at the top. It looks like this:

Show Image
(http://deskthority.net/w/images/5/5f/KBC_Poker_II_--_MX_Red_with_green_LED.jpg)


I suppose they're all this way?

The logos aren't upside-down, the switches themselves are.  I'm sure they did this so the LEDs would be closer to the transparent part of the key caps.
Title: Re: Upside down "Cherry" logo on my CM Quickfire TK with red switches?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 07 March 2014, 08:57:33
Having the switch with led on top is most common for backlight keyboard as that is generally where the legend on keycap is. It's only done for better illumination. Sometime on other keyboard switch may be rotated for other reason like trace routing. In any case the orientation of the switch makes no functional difference.
Title: Re: Upside down "Cherry" logo on my CM Quickfire TK with red switches?
Post by: JPG on Fri, 07 March 2014, 09:01:43
Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 07 March 2014, 08:57:33
Having the switch with led on top is most common for backlight keyboard as that is generally where the legend on keycap is. It's only done for better illumination. Sometime on other keyboard switch may be rotated for other reason like trace routing. In any case the orientation of the switch makes no functional difference.


I would add that it makes no difference as long as it's 180°, if it's 90° or 270° rotation, then the stem will not fit as perfectly on the keycap since the cross on the stem is not symmetric on all directions.
Title: Re: Upside down "Cherry" logo on my CM Quickfire TK with red switches?
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Fri, 07 March 2014, 16:07:42
Quote from: JPG on Fri, 07 March 2014, 09:01:43
I would add that it makes no difference as long as it's 180°, if it's 90° or 270° rotation, then the stem will not fit as perfectly on the keycap since the cross on the stem is not symmetric on all directions.

Wow, I never realised. I always put the narrower width of the N and S cross arms down to illumination, but you are correct: there's a difference of around 0.2 mm. It's hard to get a precise measurement with a standard digital calliper, but having just checked a handful of switches (one each of red, green, brown and lock) the N and S arms are around 1.05–1.1 mm thick, and the E and W arms are around 1.25–1.3 mm thick. I cannot get a Filco keycap to go on sideways at all.

When I enquired about the stem spec, I was only able to obtain keycap specs, and they're quite complex — I've just looked at them again and I can't figure out where it says that they're only 180° symmetrical.

Holding a brown switch next to a green one, it's quite evident with the brown, but not the green, due to colour and angle of lighting. Both measure the same though. Ironically, Cherry's own diagrams are not only incorrect, but not even remotely self-consistent within the same document.

Interestingly, there are keyboards with keys where switches are mounted sideways, mostly stabilised keys. I guess they had special keycaps with sideways mounts.

[Edit: Now I have to redo all my diagrams!]
Title: Re: Upside down "Cherry" logo on my CM Quickfire TK with red switches?
Post by: shaaniqbal on Fri, 07 March 2014, 19:17:21
I actually do have the four vowel keys c v n m placed sideways for steno.
Title: Re: Upside down "Cherry" logo on my CM Quickfire TK with red switches?
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 08 March 2014, 09:46:31
The SP mount specs don't imply 180° symmetry: http://keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/MountStyles.pdf

They only cite 0.047”, which is 1.19 mm.

I can fit EK, SP and Tai-Hao doubleshots on sideways, as well as QWERkeys keycaps.

I have finally got some Filco keycaps to go on sideways too.

I don't deny that the switch stem is as described, having measured several MX switches, but fitting keycaps sideways does work. It just takes more force in some cases.