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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: squarefrog on Sun, 09 March 2014, 10:20:21
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Hi all. After discussions with Matt3o and jdeblese, it was decided that it would benefit group buy organisers if we could compile a giant list of Ergodox layouts.
This list can then be plotted to generate the most common keycap configurations.
So for the benefit of better quality labelled modifiers, please post your Massdrop configurator (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/) layout URLs here!
Heres my work in progress (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=8NKMPV&hash=90050759c45b2f144b0eae83ba1d5e94).
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You can have a look at the stats here:
http://dox.codeslingers.co.uk/
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There will be some minor changes, I suppose, but this is the basic idea (no massdrop link currently though):
(http://i.imgur.com/qmTcbRA.png)
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Squarefrog has written a script to automatically generate key statistics based on configurator links. Unfortunately, that's not really possible with images, or at least not without a lot more work.
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The problem is that I'm switching to TMK these days, which means I'd have to "copy" my layout to massdrop.
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Thats ok - what is TMK?
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TMK firmware for ErgoDox
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48106.0
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OK I'm with you. If you can provide your layout file I can look at supporting this in v2.0 :p
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Here's mine.
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=7M8A25&hash=b9a85468bac475f741a1626cff4a6e93
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Thanks Larkin! I have an older layout of yours from google scraping. I'll have to change the code to allow updating then I'll add it in! :thumb:
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I copied my TMK (at least the first layer) over to the Massdrop thing too:
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=WYSEA7&hash=332cc6d850bfb77db8b7a27a353fedbc
Note: couldn't put my first-layer media keys in there. :bummed:
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I only scrape the first layer anyway so that's ok. Top tip: to add media keys right click on the key and you have options for media keys.
Is that dvorak?
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Yes, Dvorak. Thanks for the tip; I found and added a media key for Mute, but not Play/Pause and Next. :meh:
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You can have a look at the stats here:
http://dox.codeslingers.co.uk/
I think I'll work on an importer for TMK layout files. But for that I could do with a couple for reference. Does anyone have a keymap.c file I can look at?
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The problem is that I'm switching to TMK these days, which means I'd have to "copy" my layout to massdrop.
Where can i found this script?
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The problem is that I'm switching to TMK these days, which means I'd have to "copy" my layout to massdrop.
Where can i found this script?
I think they are doing it by hand.
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I think I'll work on an importer for TMK layout files. But for that I could do with a couple for reference. Does anyone have a keymap.c file I can look at?
Cub's mechanism is to include a .h file. Here's mine:
https://github.com/shayneholmes/tmk_keyboard/blob/simon_layout/keyboard/ergodox/keymap_simon.h
The first KEYMAP macro is the default layer, and the one I'd want counted. I think the tough part is going to be evaluating the FN action codes, since they're in fn_actions and not always easily decipherable.
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Cheers wuqe!
Yeah the fn_actions could be quite tricky. Are the fn calls (FN1..FN13) static? Or do you alter them based on what you want the layer to do?
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They're global, but you can get funky by writing code behind them, too. (I've done some of that for my Plover switcher and shifted numbers.)
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I see. I suppose I'd probably have to just strip them out :'(
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Keep in mind that we're collecting statistics to determine what legend we'd like to see on keys.
Wuqe, what legends would you like to see in those positions, regardless of what they actually do?
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Fn legend will work fine for most of my FN buttons; they are layer switches of one sort or another. The FN12's across the top of my board are just a hack to get the symbols and numbers switched (e.g., 2 gives @). The FN8 is an ALT-TAB key. The rest have legends.
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Cheers wuqe!
Yeah the fn_actions could be quite tricky. Are the fn calls (FN1..FN13) static? Or do you alter them based on what you want the layer to do?
Another common function action in TMK firmware is the teensy key, to get to the bootloader. The legend could be "teensy" or "boot" or something like that. But yeah, it would be very difficult to get your script to scrape the files automatically because any FN number can be any action.
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Actually teensy is a good idea for a cap. :thumb:
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I have my teensy key buried on a tertiary layer because I need it relatively rarely; I suspect this is common.
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I don't, and keep pressing it by accident. :-)
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https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=BZ7JF4&hash=ee67515e7a9620b18676a92228c8d415
this is mine...not final yet.
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=BZ7JF4&hash=c346680437d2991b6a37f7b7c730d2f3
i'll stick with this for now.
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Cool layers! Embedded number pad is handy, no?
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Cool layers! Embedded number pad is handy, no?
it is handy :D though i'm not sure whether my left hand will get used to numpad or not.
still want to get a ghpad... :p
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My current layout
(http://i.imgur.com/gsd2I51.png)
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=QJGS5L&hash=6bde6a47f792b1262dfcf8a6223904c2
*EDIT* I do not currently have an ErgoDox anymore
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Love that logically positioned number pad! Also, lots of layer shifting on the thumbs is great; I do a similar thing.
Minus one point for low thumb key variety! :jest:
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I've just skimmed the thread, but it doesn't look like anybody is going for hardware-dvorak?
There's a couple changes I'll probably make, but this is my current revison (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=A3SE32&hash=7a9148d46ac2919ee7843389dd13f47c)
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I've just skimmed the thread, but it doesn't look like anybody is going for hardware-dvorak?
Here are my two posts of my hardware-dvorak layout:
I copied my TMK (at least the first layer) over to the Massdrop thing too:
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=WYSEA7&hash=332cc6d850bfb77db8b7a27a353fedbc
Note: couldn't put my first-layer media keys in there. :bummed:
I think I'll work on an importer for TMK layout files. But for that I could do with a couple for reference. Does anyone have a keymap.c file I can look at?
Cub's mechanism is to include a .h file. Here's mine:
https://github.com/shayneholmes/tmk_keyboard/blob/simon_layout/keyboard/ergodox/keymap_simon.h
Now, as for your layout:
I like your consistency in number placement and function keys.
I am curious why your number pad is where it is, instead of one space to the right so it falls right under home row. Is it to make room for the arrow keys?
Your thumb keys are a surprising mix: page up? Not criticizing (it's an Ergodox, not an Orthodox, after all!), but what led you to put those there?
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I've just skimmed the thread, but it doesn't look like anybody is going for hardware-dvorak?
There's a couple changes I'll probably make, but this is my current revison (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=A3SE32&hash=7a9148d46ac2919ee7843389dd13f47c)
I think we've scraped a few dvoraks. No colemaks or workman yet.. Maybe I should switch my qwerty and colemak layers to skew the results :)
I've updated your layout. Thanks for including.
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Your thumb keys are a surprising mix: page up? Not criticizing (it's an Ergodox, not an Orthodox, after all!), but what led you to put those there?
You know these elements are the most interesting to me. Seeing what people decide to use for the modifiers is really interesting.
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Your thumb keys are a surprising mix: page up? Not criticizing (it's an Ergodox, not an Orthodox, after all!), but what led you to put those there?
You know these elements are the most interesting to me. Seeing what people decide to use for the modifiers is really interesting.
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Here's the QWERTY layout I eventually settled on (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=S49G3K&hash=0e905ba4fdf5cfa427d58a73d8903023) after some months of real-world use and fine-tuning. Notable features include: a traditional inverted-T arrow cluster (which moves ?/ to an IMO more convenient position), numpad layer that puts 7-8-9 on the same keys as the regular numrow, thumb Shifts, TECK-style pinky Shifts/Ctrls moved up a row for comfort, and Tab on a thumb key next to Backspace, which moves Delete up to the inboard column (in fact, I never use the pinky Tab anymore, so I may yet find a better use for that key).
I really wanted to like this alternate layout I devised to put cursor/page nav keys on the thumb clusters (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=S49G3K&hash=98bd149a030a413d919c5b7e16ad2bd6), but ultimately I just wasn't patient enough to retrain myself to use the cursor arrow keys like that; inverted-T muscle memory is strong.
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Here's the QWERTY layout I eventually settled on (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=S49G3K&hash=0e905ba4fdf5cfa427d58a73d8903023) after some months of real-world use and fine-tuning. Notable features include: a traditional inverted-T arrow cluster (which moves ?/ to an IMO more convenient position), numpad layer that puts 7-8-9 on the same keys as the regular numrow, thumb Shifts, TECK-style pinky Shifts/Ctrls moved up a row for comfort, and Tab on a thumb key next to Backspace, which moves Delete up to the inboard column (in fact, I never use the pinky Tab anymore, so I may yet find a better use for that key).
I really wanted to like this alternate layout I devised to put cursor/page nav keys on the thumb clusters (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=S49G3K&hash=98bd149a030a413d919c5b7e16ad2bd6), but ultimately I just wasn't patient enough to retrain myself to use the cursor arrow keys like that; inverted-T muscle memory is strong.
Thanks - updated. I thought it would be easy to retrain my hands to conform to alternative layouts, but it's much harder than I had anticipated. I have gotten used to Vim hjkl navigation though, so thats my arrow key cluster of choice!
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Now that I physically have an ergodox, I've adapted a couple of times and may once more ...
here (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=A3SE32&hash=fe41873a63468a004d4e65827bdaa073) is what it's set to right now -- keep in mind, my computer is interpreting that as dvorak, so the punctuation isn't quite what you see. '-' becomes '[', and '+' is the matching ']' for instance.
My only complaint so far (a few days of typing) is that backslash. I work in a windows environment and when I bring the keyboard in -- I need the backslash all the time. I'll quite possibly swap it with print screen, which I guess I don't use every week like I was thinking I did.
Also the inner 1.5 buttons are really awkward to reach -- they need to be buttons that I expect to pull my hand off the keyboard when I'm actually wanting them. Copy/paste seem not to work in most of the windows environment and my linux machine hasn't deigned to acknowledge anything of the sort. So those will be remapped soon. But there are as many keys as a TKL has! I don't need that many most of the time!
Hey can anyone help me write a keyboard macro using CubUniac's TMK fork? I can read C, but have never written code so I'm still unclear what I'm supposed to put in to say "Type these things, in this order"
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https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=B5L97R&hash=e51088501d45d02dc24a62ba3f7e2f1c
I actually use 80 keys, but MD's webUI apparently doesn't allow sharing such layouts (and overrides them by 76 key option).
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My layout (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=XG4FD2&hash=4b82457fedd627d8e633c0e635135fe5), although I've customized mine a little more to use media keys.
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https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=B5L97R&hash=e51088501d45d02dc24a62ba3f7e2f1c
I actually use 80 keys, but MD's webUI apparently doesn't allow sharing such layouts (and overrides them by 76 key option).
Oh, I see. the &keys=80 has to be at the end.
Anyway, this is my layout (https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=B5L97R&hash=ce03f987c68c53846ca6c7546baca989&keys=80), and I've discussed used keycaps/profiles here (http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/post-your-keyboard-keycaps-t7834-510.html#p233196).