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geekhack Community => Ergonomics => Topic started by: ideus on Sun, 16 March 2014, 19:44:29
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I am not sure if this subject has been discussed before. But I just found a paper that claims and provide some warrants that if the keyboard is set with a -15 deg angle it causes less stress, thus less exposure to the causes for carpal syndrom and other typist injuries.
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Its been discussed, but not very in depth
i am interested in whether or not its true
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The paper has statistics based on electromyography measurements, thus, it is not anecdotic. You can download it from the link.
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The paper has statistics based on electromyography measurements, thus, it is not anecdotic. You can download it from the link.
anecdotaly, for me, this is clearly true. So much so that I'm surprised front keyboard legs are so rare. Microsoft seems to be the only mainstream manufacturer to include them.
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Its the biggest pain for me when seeing certain cases. They design the case to be really tall, and thus not only is it awkward and unergonomic, its more expensive
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anecdotaly, for me, this is clearly true. So much so that I'm surprised front keyboard legs are so rare. Microsoft seems to be the only mainstream manufacturer to include them.
I've been wondering too why more manufacturers don't include it. And yet everyone offers positive angle, which clearly puts hands in an unnatural position.
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The reason that most keyboards are tilted up at the back is that the vast majority of computer users have chairs that are too low and/or desks that are too high. Only a small fraction (e.g. those who have adjustable keyboard trays) end up placing the keyboard at an appropriate height relative to the torso.
If the keyboard is going to be up high, as it is for most users, then the forearms will be tilted upward to type, and a “positive” (up in the back) tilt is required so that wrists stay in a neutral position. If the keyboard is at a proper height (on a low desk or keyboard tray, or on a waist-high standing desk), then a negative tilt is better.
A laptop on a lap when reclining on a couch or easy chair is actually a pretty good height/slope, though the display is much too low for neck comfort. A laptop on a regular-height table is quite terrible all around.
I think the DataStealth keyboard had the right idea, though they never got off the ground w/r/t commercializing their product.
(http://i.imgur.com/oXvfizT.jpg)
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When I use my laptop I always put it like the picture. However the heat vents does not allow to use it like that for extended periods. I also sometimes use my keyboard in the same way instead of having it on my keyboard tray. I never use the supports in the back of my keyboard. I will try some wedge to keep in tilted backwards. I really think the negative angle is the best postion for typing.
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I have a grifiti fat *** wrist rest and I am now lying the board, no feet, bottom end on the wrist rest, with a flipped spacebar after having it on the table with the feet extended and regular spacebar
Feels much better. Only problem is wrist placement as the board is higher than the rest at first but the flipped spacebar helps that. Will probably make something else for the setup to be perfect as there is some strain in the lower arm
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That is a good idea. I will also try to use a space bar under my keyboard on the keyboard tray. I have one 7u with no use at all from a cherry set. It is PBT one.
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That is a good idea. I will also try to use a space bar under my keyboard on the keyboard tray. I have one 7u with no use at all from a cherry set. It is PBT one.
Edited the layout
Have two small plate legos (2x4 units, but it doesn't really matter the size) on both ends. With the rest its pretty much perfect size, and made the spacebar regular positioned
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I am using the space bar now under my Leo, and I should say the difference in feeling is amazing. Wow! I will try to get a couple of small machined aluminum wedges and I will bolt them to the bottom of my keyboard case at the front. This is super cool.
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Now I am also wondering if the DSA profile caps will add to the confort of the keyboard, because they are flat and the same shape overall. ::)
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I read about effects of keyboard angle on overall posture few years ago. Unfortunately, no links, because my bookmarks are a mess and about half of them would require digging in Archive.org. Anyway, the conclusion made sense: positive angle (bigger for reclining) was recommended to hunt'n'peckers (obviously, because keycap lettering would be harder to see and cause improper posture in case of a keyboard lying flat), flat or very small negative slope otherwise.
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I usually use a zero angle or near zero angle board.
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I have been working at ~ -5 deg since yesterday, and I cannot believe the change in the feeling. My hands are more relaxed and I even do less typos. yay!
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Personally, this was clear to me since I first experienced RSI.
Whenever I had to type with my hands in an upward tilt (positive angle), I would get pain after about 5 minutes.
That's why I really can't understand why manufacturers keep offering boards with positive angle only.
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I do not have any issue with my wrists, but it is really different to use the negative angle. And there is no need to get another keyboard, just the same with some support at the front, and it makes a great difference. However, this is the kind of change that is very hard to get into mainstream. I have seen some fancy cases that has a large angle at the back just for aesthetic reasons.
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The Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 has an attachment to put the board on a negative slope. I always found it very comfortable.
I will try to get a couple of small machined aluminum wedges and I will bolt them to the bottom of my keyboard case at the front.
I like this idea, let me know what you think once you do it. I might do the same for all my boards.
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The Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 has an attachment to put the board on a negative slope. I always found it very comfortable.
I will try to get a couple of small machined aluminum wedges and I will bolt them to the bottom of my keyboard case at the front.
I like this idea, let me know what you think once you do it. I might do the same for all my boards.
I'll let you know. I am thinking also in a sort of accesory that could be fitted to any board. However, a simple spacebar or even some legos can do the trick, so I am not sure if some design work is justified.
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I have been working at ~ -5 deg since yesterday, and I cannot believe the change in the feeling. My hands are more relaxed and I even do less typos. yay!
I don't know, I find the mittens keep getting in the way.
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I think people expect a board to have a positive angle. Typewriters have quite a noticeable positive tilt and early (8-bit early) computers had them. I'm sure that people just assume the feet are there for a reason and immediately pop them up.
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That idea was the hypothesis to be evaluated with the work reported in the paper. The finding was precisely the opposite. Negative angle imposes less stress to the typist.
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I'll let you know. I am thinking also in a sort of accesory that could be fitted to any board. However, a simple spacebar or even some legos can do the trick, so I am not sure if some design work is justified.
I've tried doing that, but it still leaves you with the issue of finding adequately high wrist rest. I've been experimenting with 2x wrist rest (well, more something wrist-rest-like), with bottom one deeper so that the keyboard bottom is on it, and the top wrist pad on the bottom one, leveled with sloped keyboard.
Ended up putting the idea on hold for now, it just looked ugly and I don't have the skill to do something nicer. :( I was great when I used it with standing desk (partly due to my height, even the taller standing desks at work are slightly too short for me), but when sitting it didn't make much difference.