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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: paco on Wed, 19 March 2014, 18:37:00

Title: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: paco on Wed, 19 March 2014, 18:37:00
From the switches I have used, here is my preference:

Matias ALPS > MX Green > MX Brown > MX Red > MX Black

I absolutely loved the Matias ALPS switches, but for some reason, I had to get rid of the keyboard.
I really liked the QFS with MX Greens, but it was too noisy. My gf wanted to kill me (she always does..)
I had a Max Blackbird with MX Browns, but didn't like it. I think I might have been too quick to dismiss it because I thought the keys were too grindy. Maybe it required more breakin'.
I recently purchased a Poker II with MX Reds. I kept on reading Browns were simply dirty Reds. I bought into that and it was a mistake. Typing on Reds is boring to me.
I had a Deck 82 with MX Blacks and never liked it. I always thought it was a chore to type on.

So, I was still looking for that perfect keyboard.

I kept on reading Topre were the ****. Topre switches are the best. You depress on a key and can feel a small bump followed by a smooth actuation to a glorious mushy bottom. How could I resist? Plus the Type Heaven was on sale. I went for it.

And I got it today.

And I opened the box.

And I set the keyboard on my desk and I delicately depressed a switch to get the feeling of a Topre and......

..... f-word.

What is this ****?

For those saying it simply is a rubber dome keyboard, I have to say, I agree 100%.

I understand the "buttery feel". There is a smooth operation to them.

But... fun wise? A big fat zero. This is no ALPS or MX Green!!

Damn it. I figured, worst comes to shove, the keyboard would become my new work place keyboard. But it is so boring, I don't even know if I want to bring it at work. :(

Very, very disappointed.

And thinking it was either that keyboard or a Filco Brown...... but I had to know. Costs an arm and a leg to know Topre is hyper overrated.

I know people say you should give a couple of weeks to the keyboard before deciding, so this was my initial impressions.

I'll come back to it in a couple of days/weeks.

p.s.: damn... no way the keys are 45g. I don't have to press the space bar, I have to beat the space bar!
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 19 March 2014, 19:11:15
Welcome to the Topre hate club!

I quite like it here, without rubber in my keyboard.

Don't let the hivemind dissuade you from the true path of MX (or ALPS) switches!

Serious: I don't like Topre either. As with all keyboards, it's subjective what you like and don't like. Keep using what you think is good.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Pacifist on Wed, 19 March 2014, 19:13:13
So topre isn't all that its been hyped up? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Polymer on Wed, 19 March 2014, 20:00:49
Just keep using it for awhile..Use it for a week..come back to your MX for an hour..go back to your Topre for a few more days...

Give it a few weeks/month...

You wouldn't be the first person to hate Topre when they first used it...You wouldn't be the first to continue to hate it either if that was the case...or the first to love it after a few weeks...
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: jabar on Wed, 19 March 2014, 20:04:31
I like my Topre FC660C but... no backlighting in my dim environ makes it hard to justify using.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: riotonthebay on Wed, 19 March 2014, 20:12:09

I like my Topre FC660C but... no backlighting in my dim environ makes it hard to justify using.

Or maybe it makes it easier to justify learning to fully touch type :)
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: divito on Wed, 19 March 2014, 20:16:26
Kind of confirms what I will probably feel when I try/buy a Topre. Not sure I'll ever like using a rubberdome.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 19 March 2014, 20:20:31
Kind of confirms what I will probably feel when I try/buy a Topre. Not sure I'll ever like using a rubberdome.

Typing on a type heaven isn't anything like typing on a realforce and/or a HHKB.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 19 March 2014, 20:26:03
Topre is not for everyone, but ... please try it for more than a few keypresses.  Most people say to try using it exclusively for a week and then go back MX or Alps or whatever.

OTOH if you prefer something with tactile and audible feedback, then perhaps Topre really isn't for you.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Ahlitah on Wed, 19 March 2014, 20:39:08
I sorta agree with you. the Topre's are kinda boring!

Doesn't compare to typing on a Fun Mx Green switch or Alps. (i've only tried the Ducky Fake Green Alps, board is cheap, but boy is it fun to type on)

They do feel like rubber domes but a high quality one, with a nice spring to the touch.

For plain typing, I think I like the Topre. But if i'm bored and want to have fun with my typing i'll pull out a Mx Green or an Alps board every time.

Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Abacus1234 on Wed, 19 March 2014, 20:45:05
Kind of confirms what I will probably feel when I try/buy a Topre. Not sure I'll ever like using a rubberdome.

Typing on a type heaven isn't anything like typing on a realforce and/or a HHKB.

I strongly disagree. In fact, I felt that the experience was a lot more satisfying than the realforce 45g. I do prefer to 55g overall, but the Type Heaven is just as nice. They are genuine Topre switches. There is nothing remarkably distinct about the board. The price difference is in the caps. And for ABS caps, I actually REALLY like the Type Heaven's.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Novus on Wed, 19 March 2014, 21:05:40
Topre feels more linear even though it has a tactile bump. So I can see why you don't like them.
You probably also should have gotten a 55G.
45G gives a more red/brown experience.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: daerid on Wed, 19 March 2014, 21:12:11
OMG Topre is just rubber dome?

WHEN WAS SOMEBODY GOING TO TELL ME
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: tbc on Wed, 19 March 2014, 21:24:28
topre is for SMOOTH BORING typing.  If this is important to you, then I would argue topre does it better than anyone (45g or less, i THINK 55g is tactile enough to appeal to a different crowd)

bucking spring and imitations is for ACCURATE, EXCITING typing (accurate is in, you can practice and work on techniques to change the sound and speed of your typing).

some people like both types.  I would say most people only like one type.  mindblowing eh?

Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: daerid on Wed, 19 March 2014, 21:35:40
topre is for SMOOTH BORING typing.  If this is important to you, then I would argue topre does it better than anyone (45g or less, i THINK 55g is tactile enough to appeal to a different crowd)

bucking spring and imitations is for ACCURATE, EXCITING typing (accurate is in, you can practice and work on techniques to change the sound and speed of your typing).

some people like both types.  I would say most people only like one type.  mindblowing eh?


I was being facetious. Sarcasm on the internet is hard.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, Topre is the finest typing experience I've ever encountered. And I've tried everything except for hall-effect switches. While I like Cherry MX, I find it completely sterile and boring compared to Topre which I find exhilarating to type on.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: tbc on Wed, 19 March 2014, 21:39:44
^ no, your post was amusing.  i liked it.  more than topre. :p
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: daerid on Wed, 19 March 2014, 22:30:51
NUH-UH :-P

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: isaske on Thu, 20 March 2014, 02:04:23
topre is for SMOOTH BORING typing.  If this is important to you, then I would argue topre does it better than anyone (45g or less, i THINK 55g is tactile enough to appeal to a different crowd)

bucking spring and imitations is for ACCURATE, EXCITING typing (accurate is in, you can practice and work on techniques to change the sound and speed of your typing).

some people like both types.  I would say most people only like one type.  mindblowing eh?


I was being facetious. Sarcasm on the internet is hard.


It's not, it was quite obvious. I actually lol'd while reading your post  :thumb:
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: knguyen553 on Thu, 20 March 2014, 02:50:53
What?! Someone hating Torpe? JK, some people like topre.. some people don't.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: RESPRiT on Thu, 20 March 2014, 03:25:02
It's almost like there's a personal preference to all switch types... :P

I don't blame you for getting Topre, it gets hyped up a lot, although seeing as you rank Reds/Browns so low compared to tactile switches, that would have a been a good indicator that Topre might not have been what you would want.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: epzy on Thu, 20 March 2014, 04:03:07
Cringeworthy review...

>Matias ALPS > MX Green > MX Brown > MX Red > MX Black
- Why did you choose 45g Topre?

>I kept on reading Topre were the ****. Topre switches are the best. You depress on a key and can feel a small bump followed by a smooth actuation to a glorious mushy bottom. How could I resist? Plus the Type Heaven was on sale. I went for it.
- People praise Realforces, Fc660c's and HHKB Pro 2's, not the cheapest of them all with terrible keycaps.

>For those saying it simply is a rubber dome keyboard, I have to say, I agree 100%.
- I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that.

>I understand the "buttery feel". There is a smooth operation to them.
- Nice, bro.

>But... fun wise? A big fat zero. This is no ALPS or MX Green!!
- No, it's Topre. Don't expect to get bananas when you pay for oranges. I don't what you look for in switches, but I think most people look for comfort, not 'fun'... altough the notorious Topre 'thock' makes it quite 'fun' to type on. No idea how pronounced the 'thock' is on the Type Heaven, though.

>Very, very disappointed.
- xD

>And thinking it was either that keyboard or a Filco Brown...... but I had to know. Costs an arm and a leg to know Topre is hyper overrated.
- Wasn't it on sale, and isn't the Type Heaven $150 before discounts?

>I'll come back to it in a couple of days/weeks.
- Okay, looking forward to it. :)

>p.s.: damn... no way the keys are 45g. I don't have to press the space bar, I have to beat the space bar!
- Fingers of a 9 year old. <3
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Belfong on Thu, 20 March 2014, 05:16:30
You want to drive a Mercedes. Then you bought a 2 door Smart car made by Mercedes. Then you screamed 'what is this sh*t!'

But Smart car is not a Mercedes.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: adhoc on Thu, 20 March 2014, 06:24:09
When was the last time you used a membrane keyboard? I had to endure it not long ago at work, until I got a second HHKB. They're MILES apart. Topre isn't even CLOSE to membrane tactile feedback (ON/OFF switches lol) nor audio feedback.

I'm not sure what typeheaven feels like, but Topre is the best switch I've typed on and I've tried most MX switches, ALPS and buckling spring. Hell, I even have spare keyboards with most switches from above at home.

I think you're mixing the quality of a keyboard with clicky sounds. It's OK, I was like that too, long time ago.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Linkbane on Thu, 20 March 2014, 06:41:31
Congratulations on finding the donuts for the Topre police. Geekhack prides itself on being a lovely community until someone says that they don't enjoy a switch. Then it's all a battle to convince them why they're an idiot and wrong, as you can see.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: adhoc on Thu, 20 March 2014, 06:45:07
Geekhack prides itself on being a lovely community

Really? I feel like this is a constant piss pool* of trolls and bad mouthing all the time.

*There are some exceptions, of course.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: BlueBär on Thu, 20 March 2014, 07:12:56
What?! Someone hating Torpe? JK, some people like topre.. some people don't.

Seriosuly guys, this dude has 6 posts and he knows something that many of you seem to ignore right now:
It's a matter of taste.

So calm down. I think OP is more of a clicky switch guy, so Topre might just not be his thing. Oh and @OP: Afaik there is an extra spring under the spacebar, if you remove that it should be lighter.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: RESPRiT on Thu, 20 March 2014, 07:53:50
I think when it comes to switch preference, people need to be more careful with how they phrase things. I don't like Blues, but I don't go around saying Blue switches are ****, because as true as that is to me, it obviously isn't for other people. The backlash against Topre hate I think stems from the fact that people who don't like Topre can sometimes be aggressive about it from being disappointed. Honestly, I think if users would just word their preferences more kindly, there would be a lot less conflict when it comes to "I hate X switch" statements, because, let's be real, you're going to piss off a lot less people if you say "Topre isn't for me because X" as opposed to "Topre is complete garbage because X".
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: BlueBär on Thu, 20 March 2014, 08:18:33
I don't like Blues,...

What?! On the stake with him! >:D

But seriously, I completly agree with you. I also don't see why some people try to convince other people that a switch is actually good if the person thinks it is not. If somebody doesn't like a switch, he might like it in a year or so, but right now he doesn't. I don't see how you could convince somebody to change his taste. Sure, encourage him to try it some more, but don't force him to like something :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 20 March 2014, 08:41:14
What?! Someone hating Torpe? JK, some people like topre.. some people don't.

Seriosuly guys, this dude has 6 posts and he knows something that many of you seem to ignore right now:
It's a matter of taste.

So calm down. I think OP is more of a clicky switch guy, so Topre might just not be his thing. Oh and @OP: Afaik there is an extra spring under the spacebar, if you remove that it should be lighter.

Yeah based on his switch preference, I already know he won't like Topre before he tries it.

Sounds like he's more of a sharp tactile switch kind of guy.  Nothing wrong with that it's just preference.

I'd suggest you try maybe Ergo Clear or Buckling Spring?

Or why not get another Matias again?  If Matias is too loud buy the Quiet Pro, if Quiet Pro is too mushy take out the dampers (which I plan to do on mine soon lol, I'll let you guys know how it goes later).
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Linkbane on Thu, 20 March 2014, 15:23:06
What?! Someone hating Torpe? JK, some people like topre.. some people don't.

Seriosuly guys, this dude has 6 posts and he knows something that many of you seem to ignore right now:
It's a matter of taste.

So calm down. I think OP is more of a clicky switch guy, so Topre might just not be his thing. Oh and @OP: Afaik there is an extra spring under the spacebar, if you remove that it should be lighter.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Abacus1234 on Thu, 20 March 2014, 16:54:50
God so many people in this thread dissing the Type Heaven that have never tried one. I have one and a Realfroce 45g. The Type Heaven is, if anything, nicer. Keys also feel firmer and better than the F660c. I have 4 Topre boards at the moment, and the Type Heaven is actually my second favorite, behind the Realforce 55g.

So much elitist circle jerking. So little actual experience. It is okay if this guy doesn't like Topre. Please don't act like the reason he doesn't like it is because of the Topre board he chose, not because the switches simply aren't to his taste.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Linkbane on Thu, 20 March 2014, 17:33:23
I wish I could type that post out, but the almighty moderators would permaban me for it. Despite using Topre as my main board, I love MX and find it quite sad when other owners act like schoolchild bullies and put down others because their feelings are hurt when people don't agree with them.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: dante on Thu, 20 March 2014, 17:46:23
I briefly owned a Realforce 87U Silent but discovered I preferred more noise and a number pad - so then I got a 104U; it was good but ultimately decided the PBT keycaps were a bit harsh/stiff for my hands.  I then bought a Topre TypeHeaven and love it.  After how many keyboards I prefer the Typeheaven and its keycaps.  Also I like that I can actually read the wording on the keycaps better than the black Realforce dyesub.  Any negatives?  I wish it was variable instead of 45g uniform but it's a small price to pay; it's still easy enough for me to type on.

The keyboard is nothing special - it just happens to be the most comfortable typing experience (both physically, and aurally) that I've come across for my personal preferences.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: demik on Thu, 20 March 2014, 18:22:43
find it quite sad when other owners act like schoolchild bullies and put down others because their feelings are hurt when people don't agree with them.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

with that said, OP, topre isn't for everybody.

I love my hhkb, it's my only keyboard and I wouldn't trade it for the world. BUT, if I didn't have this, MX green all the way. I just love the sound of that click. And blues are too light for me.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: zig_ziglar on Thu, 20 March 2014, 18:45:29
 :eek: I've never tried Topre (shipping to Aus makes the cost difficult to justify). I can empathise with the OP for his disappointment, but it is wise to remember to take accountability for our own actions. Not pointing fingers at all. Just remember people, if you take accountability and ownership of your OWN decisions and actions that have lead to undesirable consequences, you will avoid becoming a bitter and irrational person who stagnates rather than evolves.

I love all switches I have tried, each for their own qualities. Some cause pain over time so I avoid them, some are not as engaging to use as others, but I enjoy having the option to choose which one I'm in the mood for at the time or which one is more appropriate in any given circumstances.

Topre is not for you. Nevermind, man - on-sell it and try clears instead :)
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 20 March 2014, 18:52:28
:eek: I've never tried Topre (shipping to Aus makes the cost difficult to justify). I can empathise with the OP for his disappointment, but it is wise to remember to take accountability for our own actions. Not pointing fingers at all. Just remember people, if you take accountability and ownership of your OWN decisions and actions that have lead to undesirable consequences, you will avoid becoming a bitter and irrational person who stagnates rather than evolves.

I love all switches I have tried, each for their own qualities. Some cause pain over time so I avoid them, some are not as engaging to use as others, but I enjoy having the option to choose which one I'm in the mood for at the time or which one is more appropriate in any given circumstances.

Topre is not for you. Nevermind, man - on-sell it and try clears instead :)

Topre boards do appear on Ebay.au occasionally.  Where I found my HHKB :)
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: BlueBär on Thu, 20 March 2014, 19:09:27
BUT, if I didn't have this, MX green all the way. I just love the sound of that click. And blues are too light for me.

Hmm out of interest, have you ever tried Alps? Personally I prefer the sound of white or blue Alps to MX Blues/Greens.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: demik on Thu, 20 March 2014, 19:17:40
BUT, if I didn't have this, MX green all the way. I just love the sound of that click. And blues are too light for me.

Hmm out of interest, have you ever tried Alps? Personally I prefer the sound of white or blue Alps to MX Blues/Greens.

"fake" alps that came in a siig minitouch and abs m1. i believe they have a different name (fukkas? xm?). but other than, i haven't touched any other alps boards. i'd love to, but, every one i've seen has that big ass enter which i'm not a fan of.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Pacifist on Thu, 20 March 2014, 19:19:04
BUT, if I didn't have this, MX green all the way. I just love the sound of that click. And blues are too light for me.

Hmm out of interest, have you ever tried Alps? Personally I prefer the sound of white or blue Alps to MX Blues/Greens.

"fake" alps that came in a siig minitouch and abs m1. i believe they have a different name (fukkas? xm?). but other than, i haven't touched any other alps boards. i'd love to, but, every one i've seen has that big ass enter which i'm not a fan of.

AT101W is 100% standard ANSI and is pretty common
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: tribade on Thu, 20 March 2014, 19:27:27
I went from my first board (razer BWU) with blues to an HHKB.  I feel in love with the aesthetics of it from the moment I set my eyes on it.  I probably should have done a lot more research, but damn I just couldn't stop myself.  For me, it wasn't disappointing because I could tell the build quality was just so much better than the razer, and I was personally pretty happy with the switches.  But, as I am wont to do, I eventually decided that I needed to delve further into the world of mechanical keyboards, and for me that meant going back to the Cherry MX switch.  My next board would be a KMAC mini with 55g blacks, which I happen to be typing with right this minute.  And I love it.  But I found myself coming back to the HHKB as well.  Then I got a QFR stealth in order to try Greens, and again I liked it (although it isn't as solid as I would have liked) but I kept coming back to the HHKB.  A Model M was next in line, and I didn't like it all that much, and now two duckys.  One to try blues again because maybe it was just the POS board that made me not like them that much, and one to try whites.  And again it was back to the HHKB (and I use my KMAC a lot as well).  Basically for a lot of us there is no ultimate switch, and we sure as hell aren't going to be able to find it without a lot of money and time spent.  I would say that people that have found the switch for them without a whole lot of searching are the exception to the rule.  I hope you liked Topre, but even if you didn't I hope you think of it as a learning experience, and that it will help guide you to a board you really truly feel "oneness" with.

TL:DR Different strokes for different folks, and it's about the journey as much as the destination.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: demik on Thu, 20 March 2014, 19:28:26
BUT, if I didn't have this, MX green all the way. I just love the sound of that click. And blues are too light for me.

Hmm out of interest, have you ever tried Alps? Personally I prefer the sound of white or blue Alps to MX Blues/Greens.

"fake" alps that came in a siig minitouch and abs m1. i believe they have a different name (fukkas? xm?). but other than, i haven't touched any other alps boards. i'd love to, but, every one i've seen has that big ass enter which i'm not a fan of.

AT101W is 100% standard ANSI and is pretty common

guess i'll add this:

60% or tkl. i dont like big boards.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Belfong on Thu, 20 March 2014, 19:30:08

TL:DR Different strokes for different folks, and it's about the journey as much as the destination.

+1 to what you say. I also have a few boards from Blues, Clears, Alps and Topre. But I always end up with the HHKB and Topre. It's a love-hate relationship but the cup rubber is irresistible.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Polymer on Thu, 20 March 2014, 22:29:06
Despite using Topre as my main board
Do you find it inconsistent that you talk about not bottoming out to type properly but your main is now a board you bottom out on all the time?  Have you seen it make a big difference in your speed having to bottom out on Topre?
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: remdell on Fri, 21 March 2014, 01:08:49
I don't really blame paco for not liking Topre.  The switches you like are simply a matter of preference, and this can change over time. 

I can honestly say that I probably would not have ranked Topre so high if I had not tried other mechanical switches.  Before my first mechanical keyboard, I was using a Logitech Illuminated keyboard with scissor switches, a Goldtouch, and a Keytronic keyboard for a few years.  Once I tried MX Browns on a Cherry G80-8200, I was amazed and intrigued by how differently they felt in comparison to rubber domes.  However, I'm sure that if I was given Topre as my first mechanical keyboard, I would not have been as amazed as I was using MX browns.  When I tried my MX browns, I couldn't dub MX browns as similar to anything, but I'm sure that I would have dubbed Topre as a combination of Keytronic rubber domes and Logitech scissor switches. 

It is my development of using various mechanical keyboards that has got me to really appreciate Topre.  My fingers are able to recognize the slight differences Topre has in comparison to rubber domes and other mechs and blow up those slight differences into epic proportions.  Given that I've just tried Topre (on an 86U) for the first time yesterday, I see 45g Topre as a smooth linear switch before actuation, but upon actuation and small tactile bump, it acts like a weightless switch or even like a magnet that just pulls your fingers down until the switch bottoms itself out. That feeling after actuation is so unique and so premium that it gives me similar chills to when I tried a mechanical keyboard (MX browns) for the first time.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Linkbane on Fri, 21 March 2014, 05:56:27
Despite using Topre as my main board
Do you find it inconsistent that you talk about not bottoming out to type properly but your main is now a board you bottom out on all the time?  Have you seen it make a big difference in your speed having to bottom out on Topre?

No, because while I do bottom out for the most part, it still registers the feather-light presses when I wouldn't expect another keyboard to. My speed is about the same on most keyboards, give or take a few percent less on RDs.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Polymer on Fri, 21 March 2014, 07:26:00
Despite using Topre as my main board
Do you find it inconsistent that you talk about not bottoming out to type properly but your main is now a board you bottom out on all the time?  Have you seen it make a big difference in your speed having to bottom out on Topre?

No, because while I do bottom out for the most part, it still registers the feather-light presses when I wouldn't expect another keyboard to. My speed is about the same on most keyboards, give or take a few percent less on RDs.

So if you bottom out on Topre but retain the same speed, you're saying that isn't inconsistent with your theory you need to not bottom out to type fast?  I think your own typing is disproving your own theory...the two definitely are not consistent with each other. 

On a different subject....You now like Topre eh?  :)
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: mougrim on Fri, 21 March 2014, 08:21:34
I don't understand... If OP liked greens but greens were too loud for his gf, why not try MX blues? Quieter, not so stiff version of greens. Or vice versa.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: BlueBär on Fri, 21 March 2014, 08:42:47
I don't understand... If OP liked greens but greens were too loud for his gf, why not try MX blues? Quieter, not so stiff version of greens. Or vice versa.

I don't think Blues are that much quieter that it would matter.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: mougrim on Fri, 21 March 2014, 09:05:54
I don't understand... If OP liked greens but greens were too loud for his gf, why not try MX blues? Quieter, not so stiff version of greens. Or vice versa.

I don't think Blues are that much quieter that it would matter.

Then there are always O-rings.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: BlueBär on Fri, 21 March 2014, 09:19:16
Then there are always O-rings.

Which don't dampen the click sound. The click sound is quite high-pitched and more prominent than the bottoming out sound, if somebody gets annoyed by the sound of a keyboard with MX Blues it probably isn't because the person is bottoming out.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: mougrim on Fri, 21 March 2014, 09:34:10
Then there are always O-rings.

Which don't dampen the click sound. The click sound is quite high-pitched and more prominent than the bottoming out sound, if somebody gets annoyed by the sound of a keyboard with MX Blues it probably isn't because the person is bottoming out.

Yeah, you're right. As klick sound emitted by internal structure of switch...
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: ynrozturk on Fri, 21 March 2014, 12:28:29
I had a pretty similar experience to OP, but I used a HHKB for about 3 weeks before I finally said no, this isn't for me. And those 3 weeks were pretty boring, typing wise. When I went back to my buckling springs, blues and browns, I was having fun again.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: kansas city shuffle on Sat, 22 March 2014, 03:33:14
To each's own, loving my Toper Realforce 87U TKL and typing feel. After owning other boards it's the only one I've stuck with.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: adhoc on Sat, 22 March 2014, 04:03:59
I had a pretty similar experience to OP, but I used a HHKB for about 3 weeks before I finally said no, this isn't for me. And those 3 weeks were pretty boring, typing wise. When I went back to my buckling springs, blues and browns, I was having fun again.

Well at least you gave it a good try. You can't evaluate a board after a few key presses. Then again, if one loves clicky switches, such as blues and buckling springs, Topre will probably not be his cup of tea.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: paco on Sat, 22 March 2014, 06:34:52
OP here.

First, I would just like to clarify something.

I think some of you took my initial post too seriously. I wasn't bashing on anyone in particular (but all of you. jk.)

That being said, I think I should emphasize on the fact that my goal was to warn people wishing to buy a Topre based keyboard that it might not be what they are expecting.

A recurrent comment was that because I didn't like MX Reds so much, I should have known better than to buy a Topre keyboard.

TweakTown.com has a review of the Type Heaven where it is mentioned "After much use, I found the Topre to be much like a brown switch in feel and noise...". I read multiple reviews here of the keyboard but most importantly I read a plethora of positive comments about Topre switches.

I read more than once comments like: "when you press on a key, you can feel a pop and then the collapse of the dome to a mushy bottom".

That is nothing like MX Reds. The only thing I could relate Topre to MX Reds (from the read descriptions) is the resistivity of the switches.

What I am trying to say is that I read enough about Topre to lead me to believe I was missing out on the best switch there is. The switch exhibited tactility, smoothness, finess. I wanted it.

I brought the keyboard at work Thursday and Friday. I wanted to expose myself fully to the keyboard. I can thus ellaborate a little more:

Regarding the build quality of the keyboard:

The keyboard is really well built.


Regarding the feel of the keyboard:

It is slowly growing on me. I am starting to appreciate how the keys feel.


td;lr

My goal is to warn people wishing to buy Topre based keyboards that they are buying a keyboard is zero tactility. It will be a high quality board. It will be a board with smooth switches. It will be a comfortable board. But that will be it.

The Type Heaven is slowly growing on me. Initial disappointment is letting place to some kind of pleasanteness in getting to know the keyboard.

Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Polymer on Sat, 22 March 2014, 06:57:19
I think the best thing is to describe it rather than claim it has no tactility..which is wrong. 

The collapse of the dome is indeed tactile...maybe not by your definition but your definition is wrong. The collapse of the dome is a change in feel which by definition is tactile.   You can certainly say you dislike that type of tactile feedback or that you like to have something more than a dome collapsing..

What surprises me is that some people are surprised by things like the tactility.    If you read through the Topre threads, one very consistent thing is described, that Topre has a rubber dome.  The main feel you get from a Topre is that there is a dome that collapses...The difference between a Topre and a regular rubber dome is the stability, the smoothness and the solidness...But the main mechanism for how Topre behaves is a rubber dome and it feels like that.  You can feel it collapse...If you don't think rubber domes are tactile then you won't feel like Topres are tactile because they behave exactly the same way.  How this is a surprise to anyone that actually read a thread or two on it, I'm not really sure...

I'm glad you're at least using your keyboard and giving it time..



Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: epzy on Sat, 22 March 2014, 07:07:22
"The keyboard is really well built."

"Yes, if you purposely tap bellow the right side of the space bar, you will hear rattling. I don't care about that."

"I noticed that if I pressed on the right section of the ENTER key, that it would make a different sound than if I pressed anywhere else on that key. It bothers me, but just a bit"

Lol. So contradicting... that's not exactly what I would call a 'well built' keyboard. :/
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: dante on Sat, 22 March 2014, 07:25:05
30g is linear, 45g is not.

You are right - it is not as well built as its big brothers however that's ok with me because the typing experience is great.

For example: Many consider the IBM M2 to be inferior to other buckling springs due to the way it's constructed.  On the other hand due to the lower profile and the fact that it doesn't have a metal plate it is much more satisfying and comfortable to type on than the others for me personally.  For me IBM M2 > SSK/All other M bolt modded or not.

Some of us, a keyboard doesn't need to weigh 5 lbs and be built to withstand being driven over by a vehicle to be a fun comfortable experience.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: paco on Sat, 22 March 2014, 07:36:35
I think the best thing is to describe it rather than claim it has no tactility..which is wrong. 

The collapse of the dome is indeed tactile...maybe not by your definition but your definition is wrong. The collapse of the dome is a change in feel which by definition is tactile.   You can certainly say you dislike that type of tactile feedback or that you like to have something more than a dome collapsing..

What surprises me is that some people are surprised by things like the tactility.    If you read through the Topre threads, one very consistent thing is described, that Topre has a rubber dome.  The main feel you get from a Topre is that there is a dome that collapses...The difference between a Topre and a regular rubber dome is the stability, the smoothness and the solidness...But the main mechanism for how Topre behaves is a rubber dome and it feels like that.  You can feel it collapse...If you don't think rubber domes are tactile then you won't feel like Topres are tactile because they behave exactly the same way.  How this is a surprise to anyone that actually read a thread or two on it, I'm not really sure...

I'm glad you're at least using your keyboard and giving it time..

By your definition (a change of feel), this means a 30g Topre is as tactile as a 55g Topre. This is consistent with  this thread (http://"http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=13658.0") I guess.

But, just google: "topre pop". To me a 'pop' is _not_ a rubber dome that collapse boringly. A pop is synonymous with 'bump'.

So, I take it is correct to say Topres are tactile in the sense there is a difference in feel once the switch is actuated, but there is no bump.


"The keyboard is really well built."

"Yes, if you purposely tap bellow the right side of the space bar, you will hear rattling. I don't care about that."

"I noticed that if I pressed on the right section of the ENTER key, that it would make a different sound than if I pressed anywhere else on that key. It bothers me, but just a bit"

Lol. So contradicting... that's not exactly what I would call a 'well built' keyboard. :/

Things are not absolutes in life. You can have a Filco Majestouch 2 that you will say is well built but has crappy ABS caps and pings. They still are top notch keyboards.

My Poker II exhibits all kinds of different sounds when I press, for example, on the backspace key. I still think the build quality is excellent.

There is no contradiction. The Type Heaven is a heavy, well built keyboard. It has flaws, but I would still consider it to be very well built.

BTW, I didn't answer your first message. The Type Heaven where I live is usually 200$. I got it for 150$ + Free shipping. A Filco Majestouch 2 is about that price + shipping. I consider this to be expensive for a keyboard, hence the reason I had said it had cost me an arm and a leg.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: epzy on Sat, 22 March 2014, 07:45:09
Yeah... no. Nothing wrong with ABS keycaps as long as they are of high quality. Stock keycaps are usually not high quality, but it shouldn't reflect on the _build_ quality. You can change keycaps easily. The Type Heaven reaks of low quality. Filco cases are way more solid than that. None of my 2 Filco pings btw, and if they did, it wouldn't matter as I don't consider it a defect or low quality. Some of my other keyboards pinged for a while, not any longer - not sure how or why... placing a anti slip rubber mat beneath the keyboards that pinged helped as well.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: paco on Sat, 22 March 2014, 07:55:29
The Type Heaven reaks of low quality.

lol.

this is ludicrous.

I don't know if you are just trolling or being obnoxious. Either way, I am done with you.




Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: epzy on Sat, 22 March 2014, 07:59:50
The Type Heaven reaks of low quality.

lol.

this is ludicrous.

I don't know if you are just trolling or being obnoxious. Either way, I am done with you.

Great reply!

Not sure why you're trying to argue it's well built. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8adZh1sNzqI - You said you have this as well, so it's obviously not well built.

Also, the lack of rubber pads under the keyboard also qualifies as 'not well built'.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: tinlong117 on Sat, 22 March 2014, 08:11:28
The Type Heaven reaks of low quality.

lol.

this is ludicrous.

I don't know if you are just trolling or being obnoxious. Either way, I am done with you.






Then I bet you have never tried a proper realforce.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Polymer on Sat, 22 March 2014, 09:04:33
By your definition (a change of feel), this means a 30g Topre is as tactile as a 55g Topre. This is consistent with  this thread (http://"http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=13658.0") I guess.

"As Tactile" is not the same as just being tactile right?  Not sure if you've actually tried 30g Tope but IMO they feel very linear because I don't feel a change there at all (it doesn't feel like there is any collapse at all even when I look for it carefully)....but you're not claiming that for 45g (some 55g users think 45g feels linear).  You're claiming you feel the collapse (tactile) but you don't consider that to be tactile. 

45g Topre is not as Tactile as 55g Topre but they're both Tactile.
 
So, I take it is correct to say Topres are tactile in the sense there is a difference in feel once the switch is actuated, but there is no bump.

They're tactile..but not in the way you like them to be..which is fair enough...Plenty of people want something else...
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: paco on Sat, 22 March 2014, 09:22:22
The Type Heaven reaks of low quality.

lol.

this is ludicrous.

I don't know if you are just trolling or being obnoxious. Either way, I am done with you.






Then I bet you have never tried a proper realforce.

By that logic, a Realforce owner would be shot down by a KMAC owner saying "You think your Realfoce is well built? I bet you have never tried a KMAC!".

We could draw an analogy in the car industry or with pretty much everything else.

Relative != Absolute

I have had a Deck 82, a Max Blackbird, a Matias Mini Quiet Pro, a Poker II, a QFR, a QFS and so many cheap keyboards, I stopped counting a long time ago.

The Type Heaven is heavy. The Type Heaven is solid. The Type Heaven is tight. The Type Heaven is well built.

You don't agree? To me, that is just being pedantic.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: paco on Sat, 22 March 2014, 09:27:15
By your definition (a change of feel), this means a 30g Topre is as tactile as a 55g Topre. This is consistent with  this thread (http://"http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=13658.0") I guess.

"As Tactile" is not the same as just being tactile right?  Not sure if you've actually tried 30g Tope but IMO they feel very linear because I don't feel a change there at all (it doesn't feel like there is any collapse at all even when I look for it carefully)....but you're not claiming that for 45g (some 55g users think 45g feels linear).  You're claiming you feel the collapse (tactile) but you don't consider that to be tactile. 

45g Topre is not as Tactile as 55g Topre but they're both Tactile.
 
So, I take it is correct to say Topres are tactile in the sense there is a difference in feel once the switch is actuated, but there is no bump.

They're tactile..but not in the way you like them to be..which is fair enough...Plenty of people want something else...

My only experience with Topre is with my 45g Type Heaven.

I can understand what you mean with the 30g being linear. I have MX Red and I can relate to the feeling you are describing.

Though, I have a hard time understanding what would be different between the 45g tactility and the 55g tactility if we agree the tactility of a Topre is, at most, the change of feeling the keys have once you have conquered the force required for the dome to collapse.

My understanding is, the 55g would require more force to collapse and that's it.

Please, enlighten me if I fail to understand the subtility of the 45g vs the 55g switches.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: epzy on Sat, 22 March 2014, 09:38:32
The Type Heaven reaks of low quality.

lol.

this is ludicrous.

I don't know if you are just trolling or being obnoxious. Either way, I am done with you.






Then I bet you have never tried a proper realforce.

By that logic, a Realforce owner would be shot down by a KMAC owner saying "You think your Realfoce is well built? I bet you have never tried a KMAC!".

We could draw an analogy in the car industry or with pretty much everything else.

Relative != Absolute

I have had a Deck 82, a Max Blackbird, a Matias Mini Quiet Pro, a Poker II, a QFR, a QFS and so many cheap keyboards, I stopped counting a long time ago.

The Type Heaven is heavy. The Type Heaven is solid. The Type Heaven is tight. The Type Heaven is well built.

You don't agree? To me, that is just being pedantic.

Yes, because comparing customs to stock keyboards is sane... Most people would argue metal cases being superior to plastic cases, simply because of the material.

The Realforce housing is way more solid than the Type Heaven. The Type Heaven has a lack of basic features like the anti slip rubber pads and that case defect is just not acceptable. Compare the Topre Type heaven to other Topre's and it doesn't look like it's well built in comparison.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Polymer on Sat, 22 March 2014, 09:49:06
Though, I have a hard time understanding what would be different between the 45g tactility and the 55g tactility if we agree the tactility of a Topre is, at most, the change of feeling the keys have once you have conquered the force required for the dome to collapse.

My understanding is, the 55g would require more force to collapse and that's it.

Please, enlighten me if I fail to understand the subtility of the 45g vs the 55g switches.

Thanks.

The collapse on the 55g will feel bigger because it takes more force to push them down...To me I think the actual difference in tactility between 45g and 55g is not that much (but there) but other people will feel it is a lot...Fans of 55g Topre will feel like it makes a big difference and feel the keys are snappier..  They are snappier for sure but to me they're slightly heavier than what I want..but for you, 55g might be a better option. 
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: QuadGMoto on Sat, 22 March 2014, 09:59:17
The Realforce housing is way more solid than the Type Heaven. The Type Heaven has a lack of basic features like the anti slip rubber pads and that case defect is just not acceptable. Compare the Topre Type heaven to other Topre's and it doesn't look like it's well built in comparison.


I haven't had a chance to touch any of those boards for myself, but considering that TypeHeaven is sold as the lower end of the Topre line, I would expect the build quality to be inferior to those boards, as you said.


It's all about your point of reference—what you are comparing it to. If you're comparing it to a piece of garbage $19.95 rubber dome, then the TypeHeaven's build quality should be very solid.


paco is comparing the TypeHeaven to different keyboards than you are. It's that simple. Is it not as solid as the boards you're comparing it to? I assume the answer is yes. Is it solid in comparison to the boards he's comparing it to? Again, I assume the answer is yes. There is no contradiction there. Arguing over something you both apparently agree on is just arguing for argument's sake. So please chill.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: dante on Sat, 22 March 2014, 10:04:30
The one bad thing about 55g is you can't find them in a fullsize layout.  I remember reading 55g being created specifically because Korean banks asked for it - so it's odd to only see it in a tenkeyless.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: epzy on Sat, 22 March 2014, 10:12:49
The Realforce housing is way more solid than the Type Heaven. The Type Heaven has a lack of basic features like the anti slip rubber pads and that case defect is just not acceptable. Compare the Topre Type heaven to other Topre's and it doesn't look like it's well built in comparison.


I haven't had a chance to touch any of those boards for myself, but considering that TypeHeaven is sold as the lower end of the Topre line, I would expect the build quality to be inferior to those boards, as you said.


It's all about your point of reference—what you are comparing it to. If you're comparing it to a piece of garbage $19.95 rubber dome, then the TypeHeaven's build quality should be very solid.


paco is comparing the TypeHeaven to different keyboards than you are. It's that simple. Is it not as solid as the boards you're comparing it to? I assume the answer is yes. Is it solid in comparison to the boards he's comparing it to? Again, I assume the answer is yes. There is no contradiction there. Arguing over something you both apparently agree on is just arguing for argument's sake. So please chill.

The fact of the matter is: He says it's well built, when it has obvious build quality flaws. It's a $150-200 keyboard, you compare it to the keyboards in that respected price range, not to a $400 KMAC or a $10 membrane keyboard.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: paco on Sat, 22 March 2014, 10:23:23
Though, I have a hard time understanding what would be different between the 45g tactility and the 55g tactility if we agree the tactility of a Topre is, at most, the change of feeling the keys have once you have conquered the force required for the dome to collapse.

My understanding is, the 55g would require more force to collapse and that's it.

Please, enlighten me if I fail to understand the subtility of the 45g vs the 55g switches.

Thanks.

The collapse on the 55g will feel bigger because it takes more force to push them down...To me I think the actual difference in tactility between 45g and 55g is not that much (but there) but other people will feel it is a lot...Fans of 55g Topre will feel like it makes a big difference and feel the keys are snappier..  They are snappier for sure but to me they're slightly heavier than what I want..but for you, 55g might be a better option. 

I can't really represent to myself what "snappier" would translate to. I stopped using my Deck 82 become it had MX Blacks which I thought were too resistive for me to type on for long periods.

I feel buying a 55g is more risky. Both the HHKB and the Leopold are 45g. The 55g seems to be very unique.

I read somewhere the ESC key of variable weight Realforce was 55g. I guess the ESC key of a Type Heaven is 45g, right?

I wanted you to tell me the 55g had the 'pop' feel in them. ;-)


The one bad thing about 55g is you can't find them in a fullsize layout.  I remember reading 55g being created specifically because Korean banks asked for it - so it's odd to only see it in a tenkeyless.

Bizarre indeed. The 104UG "High-Pro" (http://"https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rf104&pid=yk2100") seems to be made for the financial sector (if I read EK's description well), so I would assumed the weight to have been 55g if the requirement was coming from the financial sector.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Hordak on Sat, 22 March 2014, 10:59:21
This thread seems like a good place to ask if it is true that 55g Topre feels similar to the old IBM Thinkpad keyboards from a view years ago (before the Lenovo takeover)?
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Hordak on Sat, 22 March 2014, 11:04:30
The Realforce housing is way more solid than the Type Heaven. The Type Heaven has a lack of basic features like the anti slip rubber pads and that case defect is just not acceptable. Compare the Topre Type heaven to other Topre's and it doesn't look like it's well built in comparison.

I don't own one, but the Realforce doesn't seems to be as well built either (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42978.0).
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Polymer on Sat, 22 March 2014, 11:13:49
I don't own one, but the Realforce doesn't seems to be as well built either (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42978.0).

That's because most people don't realize how the case is built..it is made (for whatever reason) so you can take it off which also means it can slide a bit. 

This ends up making it possible to twist the case so it doesn't sit evenly on the desk...but all you have to do to fix it is press down on the case on all four corners and maybe twist it the other way slightly...

It doesn't mean it is made poorly...
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: epzy on Sat, 22 March 2014, 11:16:40
The Realforce housing is way more solid than the Type Heaven. The Type Heaven has a lack of basic features like the anti slip rubber pads and that case defect is just not acceptable. Compare the Topre Type heaven to other Topre's and it doesn't look like it's well built in comparison.

I don't own one, but the Realforce doesn't seems to be as well built either (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42978.0).

"It's a result of the way the case is designed (screwless)
Because the whole thing just clips together, there is some play between the top and bottom half of the case. I doubt Topre skimped here just because they were going to save money on screws, given that they use about 300 screws to hold the PCB and mounting plate together. Some of their OEM boards have screws in them anyway."

It just moves a few mm or so.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Hordak on Sat, 22 March 2014, 11:31:11
Even if it's no big deal, for 250$, I would none the less expect it to be designed flawlessly.

Another point about the realforce to be aware of - if you're considering it OP - is that the keys are slightly larger than normal on this board. Again, some may like that, some won't.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: tinlong117 on Sat, 22 March 2014, 11:41:54
The Type Heaven reaks of low quality.

lol.

this is ludicrous.

I don't know if you are just trolling or being obnoxious. Either way, I am done with you.






Then I bet you have never tried a proper realforce.

By that logic, a Realforce owner would be shot down by a KMAC owner saying "You think your Realfoce is well built? I bet you have never tried a KMAC!".

We could draw an analogy in the car industry or with pretty much everything else.

Relative != Absolute

I have had a Deck 82, a Max Blackbird, a Matias Mini Quiet Pro, a Poker II, a QFR, a QFS and so many cheap keyboards, I stopped counting a long time ago.

The Type Heaven is heavy. The Type Heaven is solid. The Type Heaven is tight. The Type Heaven is well built.

You don't agree? To me, that is just being pedantic.

Firstly, it's not a kmac, it's a lz-s. Second, I don't own this anymore and I didn't feel it's better than my €10 G80-3000. Third, weight doesn't mean the board is well built. I also have uncountable cheap keyboards such as deck legend, ducky 9008, some random cherries. However, ducky is the heaviest amoung those, does that make the board well built? No, I don't think so. My less than 1kg 3000 is better than that. Also, according to your logic, hhkb isn't well built then.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: paco on Sat, 22 March 2014, 12:53:21
Firstly, it's not a kmac, it's a lz-s. Second, I don't own this anymore and I didn't feel it's better than my €10 G80-3000. Third, weight doesn't mean the board is well built. I also have uncountable cheap keyboards such as deck legend, ducky 9008, some random cherries. However, ducky is the heaviest amoung those, does that make the board well built? No, I don't think so. My less than 1kg 3000 is better than that. Also, according to your logic, hhkb isn't well built then.
The Deck Legend is one of your cheap keyboards? Either you made a typing mistake or, you too, are trolling!

You know I didn't say weight == quality. You are isolating one of the variables I enumerated that I consider important to a good quality keyboard. I don't know what you are trying to do, but it sure isn't very productive.

You want to look l33t by bashing the Type Heaven? Go ahead.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: epzy on Sat, 22 March 2014, 13:00:25
Firstly, it's not a kmac, it's a lz-s. Second, I don't own this anymore and I didn't feel it's better than my €10 G80-3000. Third, weight doesn't mean the board is well built. I also have uncountable cheap keyboards such as deck legend, ducky 9008, some random cherries. However, ducky is the heaviest amoung those, does that make the board well built? No, I don't think so. My less than 1kg 3000 is better than that. Also, according to your logic, hhkb isn't well built then.
The Deck Legend is one of your cheap keyboards? Either you made a typing mistake or, you too, are trolling!

You know I didn't say weight == quality. You are isolating one of the variables I enumerated that I consider important to a good quality keyboard. I don't know what you are trying to do, but it sure isn't very productive.

You want to look l33t by bashing the Type Heaven? Go ahead.

If he's comparing it to a LZ-S it's cheap. And what's cheap for him, might not be for you. He's definitely not trolling you. No matter what you say, it's still not well built compared to other Topre's.

"You want to look l33t by bashing the Type Heaven? Go ahead." - Dumbest **** I've read so far. Pointing out obvious flaws when you say it's 'well built' isn't necessarily bashing, more like giving reasons as to why I don't think it's a solid keyboard.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: tinlong117 on Sat, 22 March 2014, 13:11:09
Firstly, it's not a kmac, it's a lz-s. Second, I don't own this anymore and I didn't feel it's better than my €10 G80-3000. Third, weight doesn't mean the board is well built. I also have uncountable cheap keyboards such as deck legend, ducky 9008, some random cherries. However, ducky is the heaviest amoung those, does that make the board well built? No, I don't think so. My less than 1kg 3000 is better than that. Also, according to your logic, hhkb isn't well built then.
The Deck Legend is one of your cheap keyboards? Either you made a typing mistake or, you too, are trolling!

You know I didn't say weight == quality. You are isolating one of the variables I enumerated that I consider important to a good quality keyboard. I don't know what you are trying to do, but it sure isn't very productive.

You want to look l33t by bashing the Type Heaven? Go ahead.


Yet you're the real troll here.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: daerid on Sat, 22 March 2014, 13:19:29
People taking too much personally in here. It's GeekHack peeps, we all love keyboards, and we all have different opinions, mmk?

LOVE
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: tbc on Sat, 22 March 2014, 13:30:12
Yeah... no. Nothing wrong with ABS keycaps as long as they are of high quality. Stock keycaps are usually not high quality, but it shouldn't reflect on the _build_ quality. You can change keycaps easily. The Type Heaven reaks of low quality. Filco cases are way more solid than that. None of my 2 Filco pings btw, and if they did, it wouldn't matter as I don't consider it a defect or low quality. Some of my other keyboards pinged for a while, not any longer - not sure how or why... placing a anti slip rubber mat beneath the keyboards that pinged helped as well.

topre keycap reality distortion field working again.

it is COMPLETELY fair to judge the stock keycaps on a topre board because a replacement set costs from $80 to $110(although with keysets no longer being sold, the cost is actually closer to $200 for a whole realforce keyboard).  whereas it costs only 59 for a pbt doubleshot mx set or less for a lower quality set.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: epzy on Sat, 22 March 2014, 13:34:48
Yeah... no. Nothing wrong with ABS keycaps as long as they are of high quality. Stock keycaps are usually not high quality, but it shouldn't reflect on the _build_ quality. You can change keycaps easily. The Type Heaven reaks of low quality. Filco cases are way more solid than that. None of my 2 Filco pings btw, and if they did, it wouldn't matter as I don't consider it a defect or low quality. Some of my other keyboards pinged for a while, not any longer - not sure how or why... placing a anti slip rubber mat beneath the keyboards that pinged helped as well.

topre keycap reality distortion field working again.

it is COMPLETELY fair to judge the stock keycaps on a topre board because a replacement set costs from $80 to $110(although with keysets no longer being sold, the cost is actually closer to $200 for a whole realforce keyboard).  whereas it costs only 59 for a pbt doubleshot mx set or less for a lower quality set.

Talking about MX keycaps, not Topre.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: tbc on Sat, 22 March 2014, 13:56:15
apologies.

my actual point in general still stands though.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: epzy on Sat, 22 March 2014, 13:59:23
Well the stock ABS Filco keycaps are better than many other stock ABS keycaps.
Even if it's no big deal, for 250$, I would none the less expect it to be designed flawlessly.

Another point about the realforce to be aware of - if you're considering it OP - is that the keys are slightly larger than normal on this board. Again, some may like that, some won't.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106134265/20140322_110556.mp4
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: daerid on Sat, 22 March 2014, 17:40:27
Are RealForce caps bigger? I can't tell... they look the same size to me (my RF is sitting right next to one of my Dox's that has OEM DCS caps).
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: daerid on Sat, 22 March 2014, 17:42:17
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106134265/20140322_110556.mp4

Every RealForce I've owned has done that. It's how the case is designed. That doesn't automatically mean it's not "well built".
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: epzy on Sat, 22 March 2014, 17:43:35
Are RealForce caps bigger? I can't tell... they look the same size to me (my RF is sitting right next to one of my Dox's that has OEM DCS caps).

They look the same size to me as well... but I haven't taken proper measurements. :P
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Hordak on Sat, 22 March 2014, 17:44:41
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106134265/20140322_110556.mp4

Wow, thanks for the vid, that looks really bad; although the board itself looks like a stealth bomber :cool:
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: epzy on Sat, 22 March 2014, 17:48:24
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106134265/20140322_110556.mp4

Wow, thanks for the vid, that looks really bad; although the board itself looks like a stealth bomber :cool:

I wonder how much it actually moves, I'd guess 0.1 - 0.2 mm or something silly. Can barely feel it move at all, doesn't hurt the experience or anything though. Plus you need to take your whole hand and force it to move. :p It's just how the case is designed; if you don't accept it, don't buy it - simple, but if that's a reason to not get one... then I don't even know. 
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Hordak on Sat, 22 March 2014, 17:53:50
They look the same size to me as well... but I haven't taken proper measurements. :P

Yeah, I may have been WRONG about this one. I re-checked the video where I got this from, and it seems that it is in fact the HHKB that has the wider keys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icE-d5GZrrE&t=4m0s) and NOT the Realforce. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Hordak on Sat, 22 March 2014, 18:00:21
I wonder how much it actually moves, I'd guess 0.1 - 0.2 mm or something silly. Can barely feel it move at all, doesn't hurt the experience or anything though. Plus you need to take your whole hand and force it to move. :p It's just how the case is designed; if you don't accept it, don't buy it - simple, but if that's a reason to not get one... then I don't even know.

Oh, I was tempted, but it's just too expensive for me w/o being able test it pre-purchase, especially when calculating in shipping & tax to europe and also because it seems even a greater hassle to get extra keycaps. Gonna wait for the novatouch release.
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Binge on Tue, 25 March 2014, 13:08:04
I don't understand... If OP liked greens but greens were too loud for his gf, why not try MX blues? Quieter, not so stiff version of greens. Or vice versa.

I don't think Blues are that much quieter that it would matter.

Then there are always O-rings.

o-rings make blues more loud... this was measured elsewhere on the webs. QUOTE WAY BACK
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Candyflip on Tue, 25 March 2014, 13:10:52
I don't understand... If OP liked greens but greens were too loud for his gf, why not try MX blues? Quieter, not so stiff version of greens. Or vice versa.

I don't think Blues are that much quieter that it would matter.

Then there are always O-rings.

o-rings make blues more loud... this was measured elsewhere on the webs. QUOTE WAY BACK
That explains it, I always thought I was delusional thinking that o-rings can make blues louder...
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Polymer on Wed, 26 March 2014, 07:59:15
o-rings make blues more loud... this was measured elsewhere on the webs. QUOTE WAY BACK

Not sure how that would even be possible..but from personal experience and from videos as well..that statement doesn't seem to be true...

The o-rings wouldn't make the click any louder..and it makes less noise when you bottom..
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: Hyde on Wed, 26 March 2014, 15:48:30
It's an illusion, because without o-ring the bottom out sound masked the click sound.  And with o-ring it muffles the bottom out sound, so in contrast the click sound just sound extra loud.

But yes in terms of physics it's impossible to get louder with o-ring.  :P
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: zig_ziglar on Wed, 26 March 2014, 18:42:32
It depends on numerous factors as to whether or not it is an illusion. This might help.help: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-spl.htm (http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-spl.htm)
Title: Re: Just received my first Topre keyboard: a Type Heaven. My ongoing analysis...
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 26 March 2014, 19:08:12
It's an illusion, because without o-ring the bottom out sound masked the click sound.  And with o-ring it muffles the bottom out sound, so in contrast the click sound just sound extra loud.

But yes in terms of physics it's impossible to get louder with o-ring.  :P

Depends on what material the O-ring is made from :p