geekhack
geekhack Marketplace => Great Finds => Topic started by: Thechemist on Sun, 23 March 2014, 03:03:17
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Model-M-85-Key-Clicky-Keyboard-/301128112038?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item461ca257a6
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261425764066?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251483605125?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Space-Saving-Keyboard-SSK-Buckling-Spring-Mechanical-/161254592554?pt=AU_Input_Peripherals&hash=item258b85d02a
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Model-M-Clicky-84-Key-PS-2-Space-Saver-Keyboard-SSK-1370475-1993-/141230894916?pt=AU_Input_Peripherals&hash=item20e2046f44
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Model-M-SSK-clicky-keyboard-clean-bolt-modded-active-USB-converter-/291104230224?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item43c72a0b50
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Model-M-Space-Saver-Keyboard-1370475-NOS-/281284001746?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417dd53fd2
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Was watching 2 of them before. Didn't see the others. Wow one is really cheap still..
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So there's a couple more in Australia ...
Still slightly above my budget at the moment :(
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But rowdy, you save in shipping this time! Rare chance!
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So there's a couple more in Australia ...
Still slightly above my budget at the moment :(
Agreed, $150 is about as much as I'm willing to spend on a used SSK.
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So there's a couple more in Australia ...
Still slightly above my budget at the moment :(
Agreed, $150 is about as much as I'm willing to spend on a used SSK.
Australian SSK prices seem lower; it's only the shipping out of Oz that will cost a bomb.
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I wish shipping to europe wouldn't be that high
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So there's a couple more in Australia ...
Still slightly above my budget at the moment :(
Agreed, $150 is about as much as I'm willing to spend on a used SSK.
Ditto and they're always twice that for some reason...
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one thing you can do:
win a bid, buy it, play with it. after a few months, you'll get tired of it and want to rotate to another keyboard. then sell it for the same price-5%.
your costs of ownership will be shipping and 5%.
a year later, you decide you want an ssk again, do the same thing again.
over 5 years your total cost of ownership will be less than $150.
Of course, if you buy and decide the SSK is really a keeper and daily driver, then dump your topres and duckys for as much money as you can get and forget about them.
Frankly, if I really can narrow down all the keyboards I love to just 3 or 4 and keysets to just 5 or 6, I'll be more than happy to liquidate my entire remaining collection.
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I opened all the links, and it comes up with a "you've been outbid" notice on all the US-based non-BIN ones.
Looks like my strategy of bidding all the SSKs to $50 might be flawed.
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bidding all the SSKs to $50 might be flawed.
2x that amount and you *might* get one
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I'd rather just cut one down to size.
I have one of those rubber dome M's that I've been meaning to bolt mod. Maybe I'll also cut the case down to SSK-size while I'm in there.
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So there's a couple more in Australia ...
Still slightly above my budget at the moment :(
Agreed, $150 is about as much as I'm willing to spend on a used SSK.
$150 is about all I can afford to spend on another keyboard, and even not that until next month, or maybe the month after.
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So there's a couple more in Australia ...
Still slightly above my budget at the moment :(
Agreed, $150 is about as much as I'm willing to spend on a used SSK.
$150 is about all I can afford to spend on another keyboard, and even not that until next month, or maybe the month after.
Aren't you are clack fan? Buy fewer Topres and spend less money on overpriced keycaps...
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So there's a couple more in Australia ...
Still slightly above my budget at the moment :(
Agreed, $150 is about as much as I'm willing to spend on a used SSK.
$150 is about all I can afford to spend on another keyboard, and even not that until next month, or maybe the month after.
Aren't you are clack fan? Buy fewer Topres and spend less money on overpriced keycaps...
Topre keyboard? Only got one. Topre Clack? Only got one.
Overpriced keycaps? Haven't got any (only retail or slightly above).
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I didn't know you only have one Clack, rowdy. I hope to someday own one. But yeah, I am trying to go retail for many of these keycaps.
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I didn't know you only have one Clack, rowdy. I hope to someday own one. But yeah, I am trying to go retail for many of these keycaps.
I have one Topre Clack.
I have 3 MX Clacks :)
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One of those is really close to my birthday and there is another that is one day younger than the SSK I have (I have a 7/25/91 and there is one that is 7/26/91)
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Aren't you are clack fan? Buy fewer Topres and spend less money on overpriced keycaps...
Topre keyboard? Only got one. Topre Clack? Only got one.
Overpriced keycaps? Haven't got any (only retail or slightly above).
OMG. Despite your avatar, and your 'HHKB' title, actually according to your signature you are a ducky fan! Lemme guess; you chose an avatar and a title long before you fell in love with Ducky.
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Aren't you are clack fan? Buy fewer Topres and spend less money on overpriced keycaps...
Topre keyboard? Only got one. Topre Clack? Only got one.
Overpriced keycaps? Haven't got any (only retail or slightly above).
OMG. Despite your avatar, and your 'HHKB' title, actually according to your signature you are a ducky fan! Lemme guess; you chose an avatar and a title long before you fell in love with Ducky.
I have sigs turned off ... wait a minute, my sig? Ok. :))
I only have 3 Duckys. And 3 CM keyboards. And 2 Model M. Only 1 HHKB though. And this is veering way off topic ;)
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Topre keyboard? Only got one. Topre Clack? Only got one.
Overpriced keycaps? Haven't got any (only retail or slightly above).
Even at retail clacks and BroBots are overpriced for the tiny piece of plastic they are :-) But this is off topic.
On topic: Someone bought the "cheap" $175 Australian BIN one quickly.
Another guy dropped his Australian-listed SSK to $175:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141235229128
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what's wrong with this market?
I thought SSKs were pretty rare a while ago. Now prices are plunging and people are hurrying to list.
Has this market peaked? Maybe SSKs will go back to being cheap in a few years, heh.
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Topre keyboard? Only got one. Topre Clack? Only got one.
Overpriced keycaps? Haven't got any (only retail or slightly above).
Even at retail clacks and BroBots are overpriced for the tiny piece of plastic they are :-) But this is off topic.
On topic: Someone bought the "cheap" $175 Australian BIN one quickly.
Another guy dropped his Australian-listed SSK to $175:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141235229128
Mona Lisa, the art, is just paint and paper. Overprice!!
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Topre keyboard? Only got one. Topre Clack? Only got one.
Overpriced keycaps? Haven't got any (only retail or slightly above).
Even at retail clacks and BroBots are overpriced for the tiny piece of plastic they are :-) But this is off topic.
On topic: Someone bought the "cheap" $175 Australian BIN one quickly.
Another guy dropped his Australian-listed SSK to $175:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141235229128
If dropped a little bit more I might be able to buy it. In Melbourne too!
what's wrong with this market?
I thought SSKs were pretty rare a while ago. Now prices are plunging and people are hurrying to list.
Has this market peaked? Maybe SSKs will go back to being cheap in a few years, heh.
This is the Australian market. Maybe not as many people care about SSKs over here. Plus postage overseas is silly so that cuts out most of the OS buyers.
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This one which wasn't posted here (also it has no cord) went for $113.50:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371029901787
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This one which wasn't posted here (also it has no cord) went for $113.50:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371029901787
Great price, hope it went to someone new to the style. Unfortunately judging from the pics it's going to need a bolt mod - if not immediately in the not too distant future.
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This one which wasn't posted here (also it has no cord) went for $113.50:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371029901787
That's more like my kind of price :p :))
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Great price, hope it went to someone new to the style. Unfortunately judging from the pics it's going to need a bolt mod - if not immediately in the not too distant future.
So what is a bolt mod worth?
Wouldn't just about every SSK (even from the 90's) now need a bolt mod, regardless of how they look? (since it is an age of the plastic problem, not a wear problem)
This one with it done has been up for $429 and not selling - and it looks in pretty good condition:
[Meh - removing link]
Interestingly this guy did it with self-tapping screws from the metal (plate side) instead of bolt-and-nut (following ripster guide).
Thoughts? :)
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Worth depends on the buyer.
You'd think they'd all age the same but there are so many factors to longevity that you get a wide range of results.
I have old M's that have all their rivets fine. Even with that you can still bolt mod them to get a possibly tighter board, but you don't need to.
For the record I think the screw mod is inferior to bolt.
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For the record I think the screw mod is inferior to bolt.
I can see advantages both ways.
It would be a heck of a lot easier that way, and there would be no particular danger of damaging the alignment posts (the "stalks" of the rivets after the "heads" are cut off).
If the rivet heads were cut off but the layers not peeled apart, then everything would still be "factory tight" temporarily, and the screws would just be reinforcement to hold it all in place permanently . Under that scenario, besides the mod itself taking 1/3 of the time, you would not have to mess with all the balancing and juggling that it takes to keep hundreds of pieces perfectly in place while you jostle the thing around. A couple of iterations of that can easily add an hour to the process.
However, using that last scheme would make it impossible to clean all the layers (where liquid probably penetrated by capillary action in a spill) and that is one big reason I like to break everything down completely. Nuts and bolts are far stronger (probably not really an issue unless it falls from the roof) but they allow for a high degree of fine tuning.
Last, and probably least important, nuts and bolts are very cheap (slightly <$5 per hundred) while tiny self-tappers are expensive (slightly >$5 per 10) if I remember from my last McMaster-Carr order.
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Hello all,
I am the person who listed the "screw-modded" SSK. Actually, I think of it as a "bolt mod" because the miniature screws used are in fact NOT self-tapping screws, but rather they are miniature precision machine screws that are used in the same manner as self-tapping screws, i.e., they form their own threads when driven into pilot holes in the plastic. The threads thus formed are tight and grip the screws extremely well, thus allowing for fine adjustment of the tightening torque without any chance of loosening further on their own, unlike the nuts used in the traditional "nut and bolt" method. While the nuts can be Loctite'd to prevent loosening, doing so greatly complicates their removal if this becomes necessary. Without Loctite they can loosen up, especially if backed off a bit to optimize tightening torque.
In terms of strength, the screws (2-56) I use are actually a bit larger in diameter than the M4's that everyone else uses. And I have tried unsuccessfully to pull out any of these screws in a test-case, using needle-nose pliers just under their heads and pulling as hard as I could. Additionally, these screws can be torque-adjusted without fear of loosening further. In this application, the screws behave as if they were "self-locking" screws due to the tight and very precise dense thread pattern they form in the plastic.
Is it a "bolt mod" or a "screw mod"? Putting a nut on a machine screw doesn't transform it into a "bolt". Actually "bolt" is a way overblown description of the tiny screws used in this process, but it does sound better than "screw" -- which has, of course, some unintended slang meanings, doesn't it?
The apparently high price of this item is due to the higher cost of acquiring top-condition SSK's, supplying a new IBM-made cable, a new active USB converter, approximately $15 worth of USA-made (more expensive than imports, but higher quality) SS low-profile Torx-head screws, about 4 hours of meticulous labor, a custom-made heavy duty double-wall corrugated box (the cardboard is over 1/4" thick), paying about $50 to eBay and PayPal in final value fees, and offering a very generous return policy which even includes return shipping. The profit on this item is actually very low and mostly comprises payment of about $12-15/hour for the labor involved with no profit on the items themselves, or vice-versa, depending on how you want to analyze it.
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BTW: rather than chisel off all rivet heads at once, causing some amount of separation of the layers, I prefer to first drill and bolt the rivet locations that already have broken. Then I chisel off about 5-8 remaining rivet heads at a time, followed by drilling and bolting, and repeating this until I have done all of them.
I always inspect thoroughly for signs of prior liquid spillage (very easy to spot) and don't separate the layers unless I suspect prior spillage or some other reason makes it necessary. Separation risks cracking the barrel frame due to weakness and embrittlement of the plastic, so it's best to avoid unless required. I have separated and inspected the keyswitch assembly on several occasions when there were no signs of spillage, nor any other reason to separate the layers, and found the silvered contact areas to be absolutely pristine with no tarnish, soiling, or physical "wear and tear".
If separation is performed, bits of plastic from the mushroomed rivet studs (Unicomp calls these "tenons") usually break off and can land in undesired places. These bits must be carefully and completely removed. No migration of pieces of mushroomed tenons can occur if the layers are kept together tightly during the bolt-mod process, so I prefer to do it this way and have had no issues whatsoever with this method after doing about 20 complete mods.
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Hello all,
I am the person who listed the "screw-modded" SSK. ?
Hi! I didn't mean to cause you trouble by posting the link to you listing, I was just interested in if people though bolt mods were worth paying for.
Is it a "bolt mod" or a "screw mod"? Putting a nut on a machine screw doesn't transform it into a "bolt". Actually "bolt" is a way overblown description of the tiny screws used in this process, but it does sound better than "screw" -- which has, of course, some unintended slang meanings, doesn't it?
(pedantic mode on)
Actually, when it comes to screw vs bolt it is something that is actually defined by how it is used:
http://engineerexplains.com/answr/Screw-vs-Bolt1.html
"The definition of screw is an externally threaded headed fastener (is the recessed drive socket in a setscrew considered a head), which is tightened by applying torque to the head, causing it to be threaded into the material it will hold. A bolt on the other hand is an externally threaded headed fastener, which is used in conjunction with a nut. To obtain reliable and repeatable fastener torque the bolt / nut combination should always be tightened by holding the bolt head stationary and turning the nut."
and
"Bolt or screw is not a physical thing; it is a matter of how a physical thing is used."
What are used in a classical bolt mod are "machine screws" too, but since they are being used with nuts, that means they are "bolts", so it is correctly called a bolt mod.
Wikipedia tries to explain the difference too:
'ASME standards specify a variety of "Machine Screws" in diameters ranging up to 0.75 in (19.05 mm). These fasteners are often used with nuts as well as driven into tapped holes. They might be considered a screw or a bolt based on the Machinery's Handbook distinction. In practice, they tend to be mostly available in smaller sizes and the smaller sizes are referred to as screws or less ambiguously as machine screws, although some kinds of machine screw can be referred to as stove bolts.' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#Machine_screws)
Summary: A machine screw is either a bolt or a screw depending on if it is used with a nut. Use a nut = bolt. Don't use a nut = screw.
The reason I thought you were using self-tappers, is because that is what they looked like (from the pictures) and self-tappers are one of the recommended options in the "original" bolt-mod by Sandy for the bottom row, where bolt-and-nut would not fit:
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/repair_model_m.html
#3. 2.6mm x 6mm tapping screws.
What you did was a "screw mod". If you had used machine screws with nuts, then it would be a bolt mod.
(pedantic mode off)
:)
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Hello all,
I am the person who listed the "screw-modded" SSK. ?
Hi! I didn't mean to cause you trouble by posting the link to you listing, I was just interested in if people though bolt mods were worth paying for.
Is it a "bolt mod" or a "screw mod"? Putting a nut on a machine screw doesn't transform it into a "bolt". Actually "bolt" is a way overblown description of the tiny screws used in this process, but it does sound better than "screw" -- which has, of course, some unintended slang meanings, doesn't it?
(pedantic mode on)
Actually, when it comes to screw vs bolt it is something that is actually defined by how it is used:
http://engineerexplains.com/answr/Screw-vs-Bolt1.html
"The definition of screw is an externally threaded headed fastener (is the recessed drive socket in a setscrew considered a head), which is tightened by applying torque to the head, causing it to be threaded into the material it will hold. A bolt on the other hand is an externally threaded headed fastener, which is used in conjunction with a nut. To obtain reliable and repeatable fastener torque the bolt / nut combination should always be tightened by holding the bolt head stationary and turning the nut."
and
"Bolt or screw is not a physical thing; it is a matter of how a physical thing is used."
What are used in a classical bolt mod are "machine screws" too, but since they are being used with nuts, that means they are "bolts", so it is correctly called a bolt mod.
Wikipedia tries to explain the difference too:
'ASME standards specify a variety of "Machine Screws" in diameters ranging up to 0.75 in (19.05 mm). These fasteners are often used with nuts as well as driven into tapped holes. They might be considered a screw or a bolt based on the Machinery's Handbook distinction. In practice, they tend to be mostly available in smaller sizes and the smaller sizes are referred to as screws or less ambiguously as machine screws, although some kinds of machine screw can be referred to as stove bolts.' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#Machine_screws)
Summary: A machine screw is either a bolt or a screw depending on if it is used with a nut. Use a nut = bolt. Don't use a nut = screw.
The reason I thought you were using self-tappers, is because that is what they looked like (from the pictures) and self-tappers are one of the recommended options in the "original" bolt-mod by Sandy for the bottom row, where bolt-and-nut would not fit:
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/repair_model_m.html
#3. 2.6mm x 6mm tapping screws.
What you did was a "screw mod". If you had used machine screws with nuts, then it would be a bolt mod.
(pedantic mode off)
Not that personally I think how you did it is inferior. But it is different.
I think $429 for a good Model M and all the work involved is worth it either way. If you bolt mod yourself, you are paying for the difference in your own time.
Plug: I see you have re-listed it here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/291114928797
:)
I have all along been aware that some would call my method a "screw mod". But I've found that others who use essentially the same method also call it a "bolt mod" rather than a "screw mod", such as phosphorglow does, so I decided to do the same. I feel it's unnecessary to split hairs about this, especially when others aren't similarly challenged for the same use of terminology. But thanks for the pedantic explanation anyway.
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With reference to screws being rightly considered as "bolts" only when they have nuts on them, consider the screws used to assemble an automobile engine. An example would be the screws used to attach the cylinder head to the block. These are driven into threads in the block, right? There are no nuts involved, right? These and practically all the other large screws used to assemble an engine are called "bolts", not screws, yet none have nuts.
If the tiny machine screws used in a Model M bolt mod can even be called "bolts" just because they typically have nuts on them, then size has nothing to do with it, right? If the same tiny screws are driven into threads in the plastic barrel frame (the "engine block" of a Model M), then why could they not be rightly called "bolts" as well, and the resulting modification therefore a "bolt mod"?
Just simple logic, right?
Just trying to clear the air on this subject once and for all...
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Yep: those are screws if they thread directly into the block. It's not our fault that everyone misuses the term.
To be honest, I don't think there's any sort of negative association with screw-modded keyboards: they are almost certainly just as good as bolt-modded ones, especially if the modder is careful as you are.
The issue with a functional definition here is: what do we call it when it's not in use? if the screw goes all the way through, then can't one consider the object it's going fully through a nut (an oddly shaped one)? Unless we have a more stringent definition for what a nut is, then the functional definition is not complete.
Nevertheless, one could safely say that unless you have one nut per bolt, what you have is a screw.
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SSK for auction - cheap-ish at the moment ($117.50):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181363440015
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Yep: those are screws if they thread directly into the block. It's not our fault that everyone misuses the term.
If the entire auto, truck, and miscellaneous-vehicle industry calls them "bolts", then they are de facto "bolts". The thing to remember is that the English language is a living, growing language, adapting to "misused" words by eventually recognizing the "misuse" as "proper use". There are many examples of this, far too numerous to mention here; this exercise is left to those interested to pursue.
A carriage bolt is listed in all fastener catalogs as just that -- even when there's no nut on it. Are these references all wrong? No, they simply reflect the flexible and adaptive nature of the language, nitpickers notwithstanding.
Let's move on...
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Yep: those are screws if they thread directly into the block. It's not our fault that everyone misuses the term.
If the entire auto, truck, and miscellaneous-vehicle industry calls them "bolts", then they are de facto "bolts". The thing to remember is that the English language is a living, growing language, adapting to "misused" words by eventually recognizing the "misuse" as "proper use". There are many examples of this, far too numerous to mention here; this exercise is left to those interested to pursue.
A carriage bolt is listed in all fastener catalogs as just that -- even when there's no nut on it. Are these references all wrong? No, they simply reflect the flexible and adaptive nature of the language, nitpickers notwithstanding.
Let's move on...
Not necessarily. See your philosophy of language is different than mine, but neither are necessarily correct. In fact, one could argue that saying "it's right because the authorities say it is" is a fallacious argument (authoritative fallacy).
I would say that getting our respective ideas about language sorted out first would be the only basis for any real argument anyway, and such a discussion is better kept to the off topic forum.
I'm more interested to know why this is even a serious point of contention at all. Is there some sort of stigma surrounding screw mods in the community? I would say, I prefer having nuts and bolts, but that's because I also sort the springs/hammers by wear and reinsert them accordingly. I disassemble the keyboard entirely, even if that means replacing the barrel frame (chimneys in unicomp-speak). It's the only way to know if it's been weakened from age. Most aren't (and don't need to be replaced) but some do have weak points that only come out in closer inspection.
That said, there are benefits of doing things your way, and I would imagine any user would be fond of either in real terms. Anyone who's more particular about their bolt mods should just do it themselves to ensure it's up to their "particular" standard. Everyone else should consider bidding or buying.
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Yep: those are screws if they thread directly into the block. It's not our fault that everyone misuses the term.
If the entire auto, truck, and miscellaneous-vehicle industry calls them "bolts", then they are de facto "bolts". The thing to remember is that the English language is a living, growing language, adapting to "misused" words by eventually recognizing the "misuse" as "proper use". There are many examples of this, far too numerous to mention here; this exercise is left to those interested to pursue.
A carriage bolt is listed in all fastener catalogs as just that -- even when there's no nut on it. Are these references all wrong? No, they simply reflect the flexible and adaptive nature of the language, nitpickers notwithstanding.
Let's move on...
Not necessarily. See your philosophy of language is different than mine, but neither are necessarily correct.
I think you might have just inadvertently made my point. "Different than" is a common misuse of what should be "Different from" and yet, that particular misuse is in common and acceptable use today. It might even have been granted acceptance by the "authorities" by now, since it's impossible to stop at this point.
It should be noted that the "screw mod" not only also accommodates full disassembly with replacement of springs and pivot plates ("hammers") as required, but provides for tightening-torque adjustments that stay put without Loctite. I've done both methods and came to prefer the "screw mod" approach. Each to their own preference, however.
The reason everyone seems to shun the term "screw mod" is simple: "bolt mod" sounds better and is well-known and accepted as a viable and sensible modification.
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1avid_collector, in case you're not aware of this, you come of an as exceptionally disagreeable person and are very difficult to have a conversation with. I don't believe this is your intent, but where others wish to have a conversation you seem to prefer an argument. I don't mean to pass judgement, but to share my perspective.
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1avid_collector, in case you're not aware of this, you come of an as exceptionally disagreeable person and are very difficult to have a conversation with. I don't believe this is your intent, but where others wish to have a conversation you seem to prefer an argument. I don't mean to pass judgement, but to share my perspective.
Sorry to hear you find my calm and rational discourse to be so exceptionally disagreeable. I'm only trying to present my point of view and support it with some references to other fields and how they deal with the semantics of "screws" vs. "bolts". I was not the one who first decided to quibble over this, although I've tried to respond as logically as I can. If all this bothers you, you have my heartfelt apologies.
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One nice thing that I have come away with is the notion that (machine or self-tapping) screws can realistically be added to broken rivet stems on an individual basis.
I am the kind of guy that wants to break everything down completely and clean every surface, but with IBM buckling springs that means fiddling with hundreds of un-cooperative pieces and hoping that they all stay in place while you jostle them around.
Doing a "screw-mod" without peeling the inner layers apart simply did not come up on my radar screen, but that would instantly take away 90%+ of the pain, and 70%-90% of the time involved.
PS - for most Ms that is straightforward, but if you want to mod ISO to ANSI or activate secret keys you have no choice.
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One nice thing that I have come away with is the notion that (machine or self-tapping) screws can realistically be added to broken rivet stems on an individual basis.
I am the kind of guy that wants to break everything down completely and clean every surface, but with IBM buckling springs that means fiddling with hundreds of un-cooperative pieces and hoping that they all stay in place while you jostle them around.
Doing a "screw-mod" without peeling the inner layers apart simply did not come up on my radar screen, but that would instantly take away 90%+ of the pain, and 70%-90% of the time involved.
From an exceptionally disagreeable person (me, apparently, see above posts) to an exceptionally agreeable person (you), I fully concur. Not separating the layers when it's not necessary to do so (no evidence of spills, etc.) does save an enormous amount of time, effort, and frustration. I think you'll find that the membrane contacts inside are well-protected as long as they stay sealed up and there's been no liquid spills.
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What is with the Avid Collector hate?
This is a knowledgeable guy with solid experience to contribute.
Maybe he is irritating, but there are a lot of folks here who are far worse ......
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Cylinder heads are held to engine blocks by head 'studs'
:p
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The "rivets" are integral to the barrel plate. More faulty nomenclature. They protrude out and are melted flat after assembly.
Calling something a stud would likely imply that it is a separate piece, while these are all one unit.
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1avid_collector, in case you're not aware of this, you come of an as exceptionally disagreeable person and are very difficult to have a conversation with. I don't believe this is your intent, but where others wish to have a conversation you seem to prefer an argument. I don't mean to pass judgement, but to share my perspective.
I think it's just that he (really) doesn't like the term 'screw mod' applied to his keyboard.
Over at the other place, where he is M'er Forever, he comes off as reasonable. And he had a thread with ideas for a new SSK:
http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/a-proposal-for-a-new-ssk-t6977.html
Interestingly, I recently I found this video from phosphor_glow:
It's probably the best video I gave seen on restoring Model Ms. And he now screw mods with counter-sunk Philips head M2 x 4mm (but still calls it a bolt mod! LOL!):
http://phosphorglow.net/2014/01/21/doogie-howser-1391401-november-29th-1990/
I know this is all off-topic. Sorry.
There is a newly listed refurbished SSK in Australia for AUD $250:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141244573800
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One nice thing that I have come away with is the notion that (machine or self-tapping) screws can realistically be added to broken rivet stems on an individual basis.
I am the kind of guy that wants to break everything down completely and clean every surface, but with IBM buckling springs that means fiddling with hundreds of un-cooperative pieces and hoping that they all stay in place while you jostle them around.
Doing a "screw-mod" without peeling the inner layers apart simply did not come up on my radar screen, but that would instantly take away 90%+ of the pain, and 70%-90% of the time involved.
PS - for most Ms that is straightforward, but if you want to mod ISO to ANSI or activate secret keys you have no choice.
The one challenge I find with this method is it does not allow a complete cleaning of all the components. For an exceptional dirty Model M, dirt and grime seems to find it's way under the barrel plate and various other surfaces. Also, I am a little wary of using a liquid to clean the barrel frame with the membranes and metal backplate still attached underneath.
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another one to your list http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/IBM-Model-M-Clicky-84Key-PS2-Space-Saver-Keyboard-SSK-1370475-1993-/141246963419
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So these things just had a big spike a couple of months ago? (not the first, or last, obviously)
Is the low-mid-$200-delivered range about where they sell, today?
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I know the physical difference between one and two piece keycaps.
Is there any particular benefit of one over the other?
I'd say the two piece are better as you can remove and clean the top bit without removing the stem and having to reinsert it correctly over the spring afterwards.
Have all SSK got one piece caps?
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I know the physical difference between one and two piece keycaps.
Is there any particular benefit of one over the other?
I'd say the two piece are better as you can remove and clean the top bit without removing the stem and having to reinsert it correctly over the spring afterwards.
Have all SSK got one piece caps?
Some good questions for CPTbadass's SQSA thread :p
1. not really. Like most things the differences well make one over the other better for a certain person based on their preferences and usage scenario
2. Personally, I prefer 2 piece so I can swap my KBs back to QWERTY for my roommates to use quickly. Last time I mis-seated the "B" key and he wouldn't use it.
3. I'm no SSK expert, but I think some have two-piece, like the case for most IBM keyboards.
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Is there any particular benefit of one over the other?
I have heard the argument that the 1-piece ones are more solid with less "rattle" but I have never felt any difference. Caps stay on very snug and tight.
If anything, 2 pieces probably means more weight, and that might be preferable.
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Interesting perspectives.
It also occurred to me that one piece are less likely to become lost. One of my Model M has a bunch of the top part of two piece keycaps missing.
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So these things just had a big spike a couple of months ago? (not the first, or last, obviously)
Is the low-mid-$200-delivered range about where they sell, today?
It looks like the last few have gone for close to that. Finally, some of you patient guys can get one for a "reasonable" price. Everyone needs an SSK!
Edit: and I'm far from an SSK expert myself, but it's my understanding that the vast majority of them were one piece keycaps. I don't think the 2 piece were used in "standard" production. My two SSKs are all one piece except for the F and J keys I believe.