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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: SonicRevolution on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:07:05

Title: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:07:05: Hey guys!

Finally got my typewriter video up on my blog along with HD pics. (Not sure what GH policy is on linking blog so I won't link it unless you guys want more! :)

(http://i.imgur.com/RSzpfQF.jpg)

-Sonicrevolution
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:10:30: That's awesome. I love typewriters, so I'm interested in how that works. Neat project.

The TOS (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39249.0) says a mod/admin has to say yes before you link your blog. Good on you for asking.
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: plainbriny on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:15:06: Quote from: SonicRevolution on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:07:05
Hey guys!

Finally got my typewriter video up on my blog along with HD pics. (Not sure what GH policy is on linking blog so I won't link it unless you guys want more! :)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/RSzpfQF.jpg)

-Sonicrevolution

This one is fantastic!
Brass typewriter style keycaps are awesome... And the combination with MX blue would be overwhelming in terms of auditory perceptions

Would you please post some videos demo typing on this?
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:19:43: I have the video. Awaiting GH admin approval on linking blog
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:24:15: Here is my vimeo link. I use vimeo because I kinda hate youtube! :D

Not a valid vimeo URL
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: aref on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:27:59: Very cool, Brian! Warehouse 13 should have this keyboard on set. Nicely done (applause--you've earned it).
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: Zeal on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:35:26: Very cool design. :)

How did you mould the cross stem for each key?
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:37:48: Quote from: SonicRevolution on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:24:15
Here is my vimeo link. I use vimeo because I kinda hate youtube! :D

Not a valid vimeo URL

Wow, very cool video and project! IMO it's a bit unfortunate that the blue of the MX Blue switches is so visible - kind of takes away from the vintage aesthetic. Have you considered any alterations to make the blue less visible?
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: RabRhee on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:38:31: That is a really sweet result, grats! I do have visions of the screen moving slowly to the left as you type until the bell rings though :)
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:43:30: More pics! :D

(http://i.imgur.com/v56CMv2.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/bgs0e7t.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/KwhQCIt.jpg)
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:50:36: GH folks have such sharp eyes!

Yeah the Cherry blue being so visible is one of many design issues. I was going to find a way to paint it, but the silver plate on the PCB made that really tricky. I plan on making another version of this with wireless and few other improvements.

I have to say, this was a super challenging project for a newbie like myself. I really had to limit by obsessive compulsion by limiting my goals. Now that I look at it, there are many many issues that I'm cringing at. :(

But I thought it was important to take this step to finish it up, celebrate it with my GH folks, and chalk up things as lessons learned.

Mark IV ( my new mod) will be that much better!
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: plainbriny on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:01:22: Could you post a video on the sound when typing? Preferably compared to the original keycaps

I personally prefer the blues because of the click-clack feel and sound, and I have found that different keycap material have some effects on the sound. It would be interesting to see the auditory difference between brass and ABS/PBT keycaps.
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: samwisekoi on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:12:14: Awesome!

Are those keycap blanks reproducible? I have a Choco Mini with MX Browns that I would love to give this treatment.

I know you didn't want to be too Steam Punk, but me, I see Brazil*, so something like a 10" LCD with a Fresnel lens and a hidden CPU would be complimentary (IMHO.)

(http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/images/brazil13.jpg)
http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/movie/decade/1980-1989/brazil/

Anyhow, very, very cool, and I am serious in asking about the keycap frames.

Very best!

- Ron | samwisekoi

*Brazil (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846/) the movie.
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:14:28: I will soon post a HD audio recording of the keyboard.

The keycap material, the board, frame, EVERYTHING can affect the sound, for better or for worse. And sound can definitely affect feel because it's all vibration. (I'm an audio professional so I'm kind of a freak when it comes to "sound and feel" :D)

I'll come clean in saying that the feel of the key needs work. I actually think Cherry Green's could have been a better choice. Maybe even Matias Tactiles. It's a prototype after all though. :)

One thing that this mod had going for is the fact that the frame is all metal. This reduces vibration and makes the typing experience more solid. However, with the raised wrists, my keyboard is definitely not ERGOnomic. Again, prototyping. :D
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:19:42: I did poke around to see what it would costs to reproduce these in mass.

I got rough quotes from Signature Plastics and some tooling places. The cost was kind of insane. But I was think of trying to organize a group buy or something. If there was enough interest, I would to try to get something going.

I am actively making new keycap prototypes actually. I'll post those when they are ready! :D
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: EvillePanda on Sun, 30 March 2014, 23:32:58: That's. Beautiful.
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Mon, 31 March 2014, 00:44:58: There are more Hi-Res pics on my blog at www.qwerkytoys.com (posted with permission) Let me know what you guys think!
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: spiceBar on Mon, 31 March 2014, 01:01:20: It's just awesome.

Congratulations and thank you for posting the pics!
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 31 March 2014, 01:26:22: Quote from: SonicRevolution on Mon, 31 March 2014, 00:44:58
There are more Hi-Res pics on my blog at www.qwerkytoys.com (posted with permission) Let me know what you guys think!

Thank you for the link! This will be a great distraction.

Edit: Damn...you made a blackwidow look classy. That's impressive. :thumb:
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Mon, 31 March 2014, 02:23:13: haha! I have a special relationship with Razer. Now I own 3 razers. It was the keyboard that introduced me to mech's in the first place so Razer will always, ALWAYS have a soft place in my heart. They did have some QA issues. I had to return my BlackWidow Ultimate twice. But their support was top notch.
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: morpheus on Mon, 31 March 2014, 02:39:30: Bravo! Bravo!

This is so sick.
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Mon, 31 March 2014, 12:08:03: Quote from: Zeal on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:35:26
Very cool design. :)

How did you mould the cross stem for each key?

It wasn't moulded. I savaged each stem by cutting with a dremel tool and plyers! :D I eventually DID start 3D printing some of them But that's for my next project! :D Check out my making of video and you'll see the whole process!
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Mon, 31 March 2014, 12:10:01: Quote from: samwisekoi on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:12:14
Awesome!

Are those keycap blanks reproducible? I have a Choco Mini with MX Browns that I would love to give this treatment.

I know you didn't want to be too Steam Punk, but me, I see Brazil*, so something like a 10" LCD with a Fresnel lens and a hidden CPU would be complimentary (IMHO.)

Show Image
(http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/images/brazil13.jpg)

http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/movie/decade/1980-1989/brazil/

Anyhow, very, very cool, and I am serious in asking about the keycap frames.

Very best!

- Ron | samwisekoi

*Brazil (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846/) the movie.

OMG I'm a HUGE fan. BTW, I just learned last night that Datamancer passed away. I'm actually still in SHOCK because I feel like I JUST talked to him. He gave me some great advice on keycap construction and I was probably his biggest fan. I am super super bummed. (I assume you know Richard Nagy)
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Mon, 31 March 2014, 12:15:19: Quote from: SSKGuy on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:27:59
Very cool, Brian! Warehouse 13 should have this keyboard on set. Nicely done (applause--you've earned it).

Thanks so much! Truly appreciate the kind words - it helps with my ever critical self! :) It was high time to "let the project go" and start fresh on a new one!
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: Skull_Angel on Mon, 31 March 2014, 12:30:01: This wouldn't be something you'd probably want to put into production (if you're still considering that), but silver-leaf would probably do well for hiding the MX switch housings as well as leaving a "cast/mould" feeling when not done perfectly.
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Mon, 31 March 2014, 12:51:24: I'd imagine if a production version were to be built, I would need to have the switch maker do a custom run with blue or green switches with some custom color, most likely black. But yeah I plan on addressing the switch color showing through in my next iteration. Really appreciate the feedback though! Thank you!
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: blackbox on Mon, 31 March 2014, 14:54:40: Very cool project! Looking forward to your 3d print stem designs.
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Fri, 04 April 2014, 00:57:17: I posted some more pics from the Mark III production here! :D

https://imgur.com/a/UB1eQ
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: zeroni13 on Fri, 04 April 2014, 01:09:29: My first though was http://www.usbtypewriter.com/ but your design is better in my opinion. Typing on a real typewriter is a pain, and having the feel of MX Blues with that look is the "best" from both worlds, haha.
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Fri, 04 April 2014, 01:51:49: Quote from: zeroni13 on Fri, 04 April 2014, 01:09:29
My first though was http://www.usbtypewriter.com/ but your design is better in my opinion. Typing on a real typewriter is a pain, and having the feel of MX Blues with that look is the "best" from both worlds, haha.

Hah! I swear I think you read my mind. Also, I plan on exploring cherry greens for my next iteration of this design!
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: RabRhee on Fri, 04 April 2014, 08:25:05: If you think white stems would look better than blues or greens, perhaps sourcing some MX Whites would be cheaper than getting some custom made, although I'm not sure if white stems with blue springs would be identical to blues or not, they look similar.

(http://deskthority.net/w/images/thumb/3/3e/Cherry_MX_--_click_sliders.jpg/249px-Cherry_MX_--_click_sliders.jpg)

And on a separate note, I ordered a few of these brass plumbing caps to see if they would convert to MX typewriter caps :)

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: zeroni13 on Fri, 04 April 2014, 08:32:46: Quote from: SonicRevolution on Fri, 04 April 2014, 01:51:49
Hah! I swear I think you read my mind. Also, I plan on exploring cherry greens for my next iteration of this design!
I knew you were going to say that, cause I read minds you know.

Green's are very nice, maybe you could try Grey's also.
Anyway, I wish you luck on the next version!
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Fri, 04 April 2014, 11:14:35: Quote from: RabRhee on Fri, 04 April 2014, 08:25:05

Show Image
(http://deskthority.net/w/images/thumb/3/3e/Cherry_MX_--_click_sliders.jpg/249px-Cherry_MX_--_click_sliders.jpg)

And on a separate note, I ordered a few of these brass plumbing caps to see if they would convert to MX typewriter caps :)

(Attachment Link)

Fun! Let me know how those brass caps go. I found that it's tricky to get the weight ratio right. If it's too top heavy, the whole thing feels wobbly and not at all right, especially if the keycap is too tall.
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: ideus on Fri, 04 April 2014, 11:25:20: Quote from: RabRhee on Fri, 04 April 2014, 08:25:05
If you think white stems would look better than blues or greens, perhaps sourcing some MX Whites would be cheaper than getting some custom made, although I'm not sure if white stems with blue springs would be identical to blues or not, they look similar.

Show Image
(http://deskthority.net/w/images/thumb/3/3e/Cherry_MX_--_click_sliders.jpg/249px-Cherry_MX_--_click_sliders.jpg)

And on a separate note, I ordered a few of these brass plumbing caps to see if they would convert to MX typewriter caps :)

(Attachment Link)

To make MX caps out of the brass rings is a neat idea. Please keep us posted on your project.
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: RabRhee on Fri, 04 April 2014, 15:56:36: Quote from: SonicRevolution on Fri, 04 April 2014, 11:14:35
Quote from: RabRhee on Fri, 04 April 2014, 08:25:05

Show Image
(http://deskthority.net/w/images/thumb/3/3e/Cherry_MX_--_click_sliders.jpg/249px-Cherry_MX_--_click_sliders.jpg)

And on a separate note, I ordered a few of these brass plumbing caps to see if they would convert to MX typewriter caps :)

(Attachment Link)

Fun! Let me know how those brass caps go. I found that it's tricky to get the weight ratio right. If it's too top heavy, the whole thing feels wobbly and not at all right, especially if the keycap is too tall.

I had a quick trial to see how it would go. I screwed up the intial drilling (blunt drills for off-centre holes :)). I think the concept has potential, I might trim down the outer edge later too. The thread keeps it fairly stable.

I don't want to derail your thread, I won't update it any more here, if I do run more off I will stick in crafting or suchlike. Just thought you would like to see the quick try.

[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]
[attach=4][attach=5]
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: SonicRevolution on Fri, 04 April 2014, 18:37:27: heh! no this is awesome! I'm so stoked that people are motivated to sort of bounce these kinds of ideas around each other! Awesome man!

Please keep on posting! :)

How's the weight on it? I guess if the shaft is short enough, it shouldn't be an issue.
Title: Re: Mark III - Vintage Typewriter Keyboard Mod Concept
Post by: RabRhee on Fri, 04 April 2014, 19:15:31: Quote from: SonicRevolution on Fri, 04 April 2014, 18:37:27
heh! no this is awesome! I'm so stoked that people are motivated to sort of bounce these kinds of ideas around each other! Awesome man!

Please keep on posting! :)

How's the weight on it? I guess if the shaft is short enough, it shouldn't be an issue.

In its present form it is 7.5g, which is pretty light, it wouldn't affect anything but really light switches I think. Trimming off a bit of the top edge would cut that down too (the base is 2mm thick and the edge sticks up 3.5mm, probably more than it needs). I was thinking of cutting it down to about 1.5, enough to stick some sort of letter card on it and then perhaps lacquer or plastic cap. I would think the fancier metal caps would be heavier. I think the one I made for Moz was about 2 kilos :D.

I got 10 of these caps for £2.50, so about $0.38 each, normally they are about double but if it worked I would try source some plumber wholesale option. I got the screw threads fairly reasonably (for me), about $0.12 an inch from some remaindered bolt shop. I have 9 caps left so maybe I will try make a prettier one once my self-imposed craft list is clearer :).

I saw someone use buttons for keys, I couldn't find any that looked ok, or sturdy enough. But that would be a lighter option if real caps were hard to find.