I am almost done with the GHPad conversion. Will make a parallel thread in "making stuff" subforum on progress on conversion of various PCBs.
Lets start discussion on possible colorway for the keycaps. I'm thinking the blue-green color SP did the TKL set with:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/oncT3sM.png)with Cherry legends.
I'll be in for a cap set no matter what. Two if we do more than one color way. I'd love to see DSA Alps caps, if possible, but DCS is good too. A functioning Alps sets of any kind would be awesome. It might be nice to also see about a modifier run as well so people who have found cheap Alps sets can just get the caps to make their sets funtional. I know I've got some Dolchish ones I'd love mods for. Since Alps boards tend to be cheap and somewhat plentiful, that might be a nice intro for people. Just buy an AT101W for $20-30, use those switches and Alpha caps, get a PCB and modifier set and you're good to go.
A 60% Alps PCB would be amazing. I'd grab at least two, especially if they had through hole diode and LED support so that we didn't have to do SMD soldering. Total lack of SMD work would require a Teensy, but would probably lower the production cost enough to get more people on board.
What's sprit's status for the Alps?
I'd definitely be interested in this group buy.
One thing that comes to mind is that many Alps boards (e.g. SGI Granite, Dell AT101) have an offset CapsLock where the stem is lined up with the Tab stem above it. So it's offset, but not as offset as a Cherry offset CapsLock. Do you know if SP has this mold?
I'd definitely be interested in this group buy.
One thing that comes to mind is that many Alps boards (e.g. SGI Granite, Dell AT101) have an offset CapsLock where the stem is lined up with the Tab stem above it. So it's offset, but not as offset as a Cherry offset CapsLock. Do you know if SP has this mold?
Yes they do
Can the Duck mini's Alps plate actually support Cherry Stabilizers?
If we go this route we may have to start completely from scratch. I don't have any spare stabilizers at the moment but I do have an Alps plate for a Duck mini. I'll get some Costar stabilizers from WASD and a test those. I should be able to test cherry stabilizers on it in the next week or so.
Can the Duck mini's Alps plate actually support Cherry Stabilizers?
If we go this route we may have to start completely from scratch. I don't have any spare stabilizers at the moment but I do have an Alps plate for a Duck mini. I'll get some Costar stabilizers from WASD and a test those. I should be able to test cherry stabilizers on it in the next week or so.
Can the Duck mini's Alps plate actually support Cherry Stabilizers?
If we go this route we may have to start completely from scratch. I don't have any spare stabilizers at the moment but I do have an Alps plate for a Duck mini. I'll get some Costar stabilizers from WASD and a test those. I should be able to test cherry stabilizers on it in the next week or so.
I don't believe so. They have the same stabilizer mounts as Dell AT101W
Cases:
The attempt will be to be able to use existing cases and design the PCB so that it can be used witch plates similar to those already in existence and thus compatible with existing cases. This is true for 60% as well as TKL.
SP can do DSA as well, so that is a possibility for the future, they can also produce keycaps in PBT but those will be blank no dyesub and they don't plan having the facility in the near future.I would love love love some blank PBT Alps caps. Especially DSA, but DCS would be okay too. I mainly just want a pile of 1x1 caps, and maybe some 1.25x1 / 1.5x1 caps. They had some Alps caps for sale as inventory, but only blank gray ABS DSA 1x1s, for $1/each.
However those are closer to OEM profile, so there is a profile mismatch and the reason why I didn't give it much thought.I’ll try to take a picture of the profiles for various Alps caps. Those Alps-made ones (for Toshiba, etc. laptops) in particular are definitely lower than OEM profile.
Having through hole diode, through hole resistor and LED is very hard with the controller stuff on board, maybe possible with a Teensy. How about LED + SMD diode and pick n placed controller parts.LEDs are so overrated. :-)
One thing that comes to mind is that many Alps boards (e.g. SGI Granite, Dell AT101) have an offset CapsLock where the stem is lined up with the Tab stem above it. So it's offset, but not as offset as a Cherry offset CapsLock. Do you know if SP has this mold?I think these boards use Alps-style stabilizers, so SP caps don’t work anyway. You need a new PCB/plate.
Switches:Or directly from Matias in boxes of 200 switches. 7bit might be cheaper though, as I think he bought the larger sized boxes.
New Matias switches can be bought from MechanicalKeyboards.com as well as 7bit over on Deskthority.
I'm interested... if I can get complicated Blue ALPS.You need to hunt around on ebay then. Used keyboards with blue Alps are typically about $80-100.
I guess the original switch is hard to come by so I will definitely settle for the knock-off blue alps.There aren’t really any knock offs of blue Alps, per se.
I'm interested... if I can get complicated Blue ALPS.You need to hunt around on ebay then. Used keyboards with blue Alps are typically about $80-100.QuoteI guess the original switch is hard to come by so I will definitely settle for the knock-off blue alps.There aren’t really any knock offs of blue Alps, per se.
But you can get complicated white Alps, which are similar, with a bit heavier spring.
Or you can take the housing + slider + spring from an orange Alps switch, and add the click leaf from white Alps or Matias clicky switches, and then optionally slightly bend the click leaf to a more acute angle (i.e. slightly reduce the clickiness), and you’ll get something very close to blue Alps (though not 100% identical). The blue switch spring is very slightly lighter than the orange switch spring.
I'm interested... if I can get complicated Blue ALPS.You need to hunt around on ebay then. Used keyboards with blue Alps are typically about $80-100.QuoteI guess the original switch is hard to come by so I will definitely settle for the knock-off blue alps.There aren’t really any knock offs of blue Alps, per se.
But you can get complicated white Alps, which are similar, with a bit heavier spring.
Or you can take the housing + slider + spring from an orange Alps switch, and add the click leaf from white Alps or Matias clicky switches, and then optionally slightly bend the click leaf to a more acute angle (i.e. slightly reduce the clickiness), and you’ll get something very close to blue Alps (though not 100% identical). The blue switch spring is very slightly lighter than the orange switch spring.
I was able to pick up the Rosewill RK-6000 which has clone blue ALPS! I just need to learn how to solder and potentially get in on this GB to get a sweet custom case. O_O
I'd actually rather have the ALPS GH60 than an alps ergodox. Someday Spirit will move forward with his Face your World ALPS-version but too, there's shipping from the other side of the world to consider.
What happens if you use ALPS switches plateless? Does it just not work at all because there's no stabilizer pin like the PCB version of the MX switches?
The plate serves two purposes: making the board feel more solid, and probably eating some of the force that would otherwise pound on the switches' solder joints.
I'd expect if you tried to use an ALPS board plateless, you'd suffer fastrer breakdown, because all the force of the keystrokes would be forced onto thePCB and its connections.
I offhand can't think of an ALPS-sans-plate board.
Alps switches need a plate because unlike MX switches there's nothing but the two leads that venture through the PCB like the MX center stem and PCB stabilizing tabs do. The two solder joints aren't enough to hold the switch in place even if using a board like that wouldn't rip out the traces / joints after a while.
Alps switches need a plate because unlike MX switches there's nothing but the two leads that venture through the PCB like the MX center stem and PCB stabilizing tabs do. The two solder joints aren't enough to hold the switch in place even if using a board like that wouldn't rip out the traces / joints after a while.
There are Alps style switches (clones or knockoffs) that can be PCB mounted:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/x66Rh8z.jpg)
There are Alps style switches (clones or knockoffs) that can be PCB mounted:Beautiful. Now, where do I get about 60-80 -ish of them? I'm guessing 7bit doesn't have a supplier :pShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/x66Rh8z.jpg)
I'd actually rather have the ALPS GH60 than an alps ergodox. Someday Spirit will move forward with his Face your World ALPS-version but too, there's shipping from the other side of the world to consider.
What happens if you use ALPS switches plateless? Does it just not work at all because there's no stabilizer pin like the PCB version of the MX switches?
Actually, an alps 60% would be perfect for work. I can't wait to see what comes of all this.
An Ergodox with Alps sounds pretty awesome. I'm in if that's where this leads.
Edit: ****, we'd also need some custom Ergodox ALPS plates too, since most ALPS switches weren't designed to be PCB mounted.
All we need is a groupbuy for some ALPS Ergodox keycaps, or those fancy 3d printed mrinterface ALPS-Cherry keycap adaptors, and we're set for life
I have some ALPS dxf if you need them.
I have some ALPS dxf if you need them.let's make also a plate that don't require stabs, like your "bianca"
Note that you should cut that Alps plate out of (at the thickest) 1/16" acrylic. 15 gauge aluminum (or 16–17 gauge steel) would be better.
I would recommend a small test first, since the Alps switches on the Ergodox don't fit in the exact same position as the Cherry switches.
Hmmm, I didn't think of that. Maybe I need to rethink the centers of those holes.
I would recommend a small test first, since the Alps switches on the Ergodox don't fit in the exact same position as the Cherry switches.An ErgoDox with Alps would also require a new case, because of keys being shifted compared to Cherry MX, at least above the plate.
I am quite restricted in that for a key to support both Alps and MX I am unable to rotate it, so Cherry MX would get some layout options that Alps won't.I don’t understand. Can you elaborate a bit? You just mean that any Cherry keycap can go onto a switch in 4 directions, while Alps keycaps only fit 2 ways?
An ErgoDox with Alps would also require a new case, because of keys being shifted compared to Cherry MX, at least above the plate.
The case below the plate doesn't have to be different, but it would look better if it was. Some walls would be thinner and others thicker to compensate to give the PCB a good fit.
An ErgoDox with Alps would also require a new case, because of keys being shifted compared to Cherry MX, at least above the plate.
The case below the plate doesn't have to be different, but it would look better if it was. Some walls would be thinner and others thicker to compensate to give the PCB a good fit.
Hmmm does anyone know the vertical length between the foremost switch pin on a Cherry switch and the centre of a Cherry switch stem? We might be able to get away with just using regular Ergodox cases if the difference isn't that big.
Not sure I follow you, but that dimension is 5.08mm, if I'm understanding you correctly.
Not only that. When using the same pin holes for Cherry MX and Alps, the Alps switch would not be centred at the exact same place as a MX switch but shifted ~0.83 mm upwards. This means that each switch-position would need to be oriented upwards or have different pin holes for Cherry MX and Alps.I am quite restricted in that for a key to support both Alps and MX I am unable to rotate it, so Cherry MX would get some layout options that Alps won't.I don’t understand. Can you elaborate a bit? You just mean that any Cherry keycap can go onto a switch in 4 directions, while Alps keycaps only fit 2 ways?
Not only that. When using the same pin holes for Cherry MX and Alps, the Alps switch would not be centred at the exact same place as a MX switch but shifted ~0.83 mm upwards. This means that each switch-position would need to be oriented upwards or have different pin holes for Cherry MX and Alps.You can totally make a PCB which supports mounting either MX or Alps switches, centered in the same place.
Kit keyboards for Cherry MX often have multiple layout options, such as providing a choice between stepped or centred Caps Lock or a choice between a 2u Backspace or two 1u keys. To make all the pins holes fit, some switch-positions would have to be mounted downwards or sideways... but then those pin holes can't be reused for Alps ... and there isn't always room for separate pin holes for Alps.You’ll have to get specific about the layout you think won’t work. Stepped or centered caps lock is a bit of a pain because among Alps keyboards there are versions with differently sized steps. But 2x 1u vs 2u backspace shouldn't be too hard.
As a recent Alps convert,
Gimme a programmable 60!
And case and plate and caps and please someone do Alps novelty caps...
Duck0113's DuckMini v2 supports Alps. Elton is doing a sale on them at this link (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59861.0).
+1
Duck0113's DuckMini v2 supports Alps. Elton is doing a sale on them at this link (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59861.0).
It's a bit pricey though. I'd love a PCB so I could make my own case or use a Pure/Poker case.
I don't think this is actually running anymore guys.
bamp
FYI, there are some Alps projects "in the pipe." Be patient, and good things will come. :)