geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: BigWopHH on Mon, 06 April 2009, 16:08:48

Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: BigWopHH on Mon, 06 April 2009, 16:08:48: Thanks to Lam's super-fast service / contact, my Topre Realforce 87U arrived today.

My initial impressions are excellent. This is the first board with capacitive switches that I have tried, but so far I am liking them very much. The keyfeel on the baord is excellent. There is a somewhat rough texture on the keycaps that looks to be durable.

The switches feel most like Cherry Browns, but I need to use it a little longer to really form an opinion. I can say the board is MUCH quieter than I expected. Definitely quiter than my Filco board with Cherry Browns. There's an MP3 posted in the Keyboard clips section if you'd like to hear it.

Even though I'm connected via USB it seems like this board has pseudo NKRO. I know it should only register 6 simultaneous key presses on USB, but if I open notepad and mash keys with every finger, 10 letters will show up. In the N-Key Rollover tested posted here in the forum, it only regesters 1 key, but you see all ten flash on screen--it seems only the last key registers in that test for some reason.

Any questions, feel free to ask. Here are some pictures of the box, board, and included accessories...

(http://hothardware.com/marco/misc_files/misc_images/topre/topre-realforce-87u-11.jpg)

(http://hothardware.com/marco/misc_files/misc_images/topre/topre-realforce-87u-12.jpg)

(http://hothardware.com/marco/misc_files/misc_images/topre/topre-realforce-87u-13.jpg)

(http://hothardware.com/marco/misc_files/misc_images/topre/topre-realforce-87u-14.jpg)

(http://hothardware.com/marco/misc_files/misc_images/topre/topre-realforce-87u-15.jpg)
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: rdjack21 on Mon, 06 April 2009, 16:37:06: Nice I'm getting impatient for mine to get here. It should be shipping today or tomorrow but man I want it now!
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 06 April 2009, 16:43:44: How do you get that white background on your pics? Do you have a light table, or do you 'Shop them?
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: bigpook on Mon, 06 April 2009, 17:05:48: Man, there is just a bevy of Realforces going on abouts here right now.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: lam47 on Mon, 06 April 2009, 17:09:45: Looking great!
The service form the fellow we all know by now is second to none.
Im so glad I found him selling the HHKB and asked (begged) for some purple keys and a realforce.
I hope it is helping his business as I would like to see him selling keyboards for a good while to come.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: BigWopHH on Mon, 06 April 2009, 17:22:54: Quote from: itlnstln;27333
How do you get that white background on your pics? Do you have a light table, or do you 'Shop them?

I use one of these:
http://www.sharpics.com/dflector-photo-studio-p-33.html?cPath=1

The pics I took here look horriblel it usually produces better results. I was just in a rush to get some pics snapped and get something posted.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: lam47 on Mon, 06 April 2009, 18:16:39: My one of those is 2 a1 sheets of card :)
I used to be heavily into photography before it all went digital.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: xsphat on Mon, 06 April 2009, 18:28:50: I use my naked belly :eek:
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: lam47 on Tue, 07 April 2009, 03:17:49: Thanks Ripster.
I will be sure to get some good photos of mine once it arrives.
I find natural sunlight shows up the charcoal colour best.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/laurie47/DSC00460.jpg)
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: BigWopHH on Tue, 07 April 2009, 14:35:08: To be honest, I'm not really feeling a different with the weighting scheme--probably because I type "wrong" and haven't paid enough attention though.

I don't have any more typos that usual though and am liking the sound. The more I use it though, I'm thinking it feels slightly heavier than the browns...weird.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: lam47 on Wed, 08 April 2009, 13:39:15: Could someone point me in the direction of a good rubber dome keyboard that feels like a Topre. I have yet to find one.
I would be interested though if there is a particular board people are likening the Topre to.

I know a lot of people would like to give one a go before splashing out the cash so it could help them decide if there is a rubber dome board that is close.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: BigWopHH on Wed, 08 April 2009, 14:15:50: There is no way, in a side-by-side comparison, anyone could equate the Topre to a lesser membrane board IMO. The Realforce is just too solid (that's about the best way to put it--ripster is right), responsive, consistant, and functional...

Everything about it so far is great--the key feel is top notch to me (I like the textured finish and think it's going to be durable, unlike the Filco, ABS, and DAS that started to show some shine after a couple of days). The sound is good, although I definitely like a little more chatter. And the NKRO is the best I've tested with a keyboard connected to a USB port; every key combination just works. The thing even looks cool.

With all that said, unfortunately, I don't think I can make the 87u my daily driver. After two days of benchmarking and editing images in PS, I've realized how much I use a numeric keypad. Sigh. If Topre comes out with a 104-key version though, I'm going to be all over it.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: MANISH7 on Wed, 08 April 2009, 14:17:59: Why not get an auxiliary number pad?
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: BigWopHH on Wed, 08 April 2009, 16:03:57: Yes, PS is Photoshop, sorry. For some articles, I take literally dozens of photos, and some of the photos need to be cropped, etc. To keep the correct aspect, I usually tweak the image size, then alter the canvas size for the correct height or width...all of that requires entering pixel dimensions. Lots of numbers.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: FKSSR on Wed, 08 April 2009, 16:14:41: I use the numpad fairly often as well, but I think I could do very well with an external one. However, the only tenkeyless keyboard I am interested in (for typing) is the M mini, and I'm not in a hurry to get one of those (mainly for monetary reasons since they go for so much).
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: FKSSR on Thu, 09 April 2009, 10:18:33: I'm with you there, ripster. I would prefer a keyboard with the arrow keys and home/page keys on the right but numpad on the left. I think that if/when DSI makes the Modular Mac keyboard for PC, it may be resolve that issue for me. I just hope it has white alps (probably not, though).
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: D-EJ915 on Thu, 09 April 2009, 12:02:49: the long keys on the numpad should be swapped to the other side if it were put on the left, the reason they're big is because the pinky is the weakest finger and shortest, so having them under the index on the left side is stupid. That being said I think the arrow/home keys would be better on the left and numpad still on the right, then you can navigate and input numbers at the same time.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: FKSSR on Thu, 09 April 2009, 13:27:33: My pinky isn't that weak. Plus, I am actually using a Mac keyboard right now that has mostly small keys on the numpad (just the 0 and enter key are two-keys length). I think I could do fine with it the same way as it is now. That may lead to less confusion. If they did mirror-reverse it, though, I could learn that as well.

I do like the idea of being able to use the arrow keys with one hand and the numpad with the other. I never thought of that before!
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 10 May 2009, 15:01:08: Quote from: BigWopHH;84283
With all that said, unfortunately, I don't think I can make the 87u my daily driver. After two days of benchmarking and editing images in PS, I've realized how much I use a numeric keypad. Sigh. If Topre comes out with a 104-key version though, I'm going to be all over it.

They have a 101 key version. (http://benippon.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=12700¤cy=USD)
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: ssb on Sun, 10 May 2009, 17:09:37: Quote from: ch_123;90179
They have a 101 key version. (http://benippon.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=12700¤cy=USD)

This is quite old. The new version with win keys is Realforce 103.

(http://img.ruten.com.tw/s1/2/8e/1f/11080627215903_482_m.jpg)
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: rdjack21 on Mon, 11 May 2009, 10:17:43: Yea that board keeps tempting me. I like to have full size keyboard around for the few times I really need a numeric keypad. But it is going to have to wait a while I need a HHKB Pro first :)
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 11 May 2009, 18:39:33: I love the "Engrish" on the box in the original post -

Quote
Good feeling of oneness with cup rubber.

Profound. Truly profound.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: wheel83 on Mon, 11 May 2009, 21:19:55: japanese translations are always hilarious. its even better than a mispelling, because its just so out out there. in their mind tho, i bet they are extremely excited about the realforce lol
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: pmyshkin on Tue, 12 May 2009, 00:25:11: The writing is chinese, but I understand that train groping is a real and present danger in Japan, so much so that some trains have designated women only cars. Oh Japan, you're so crazy.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: BigWopHH on Tue, 12 May 2009, 09:27:06: If anyone has a line on a black Realforce 103 like the one in the pic, shoot me a note. Thanks.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: Ulysses31 on Tue, 12 May 2009, 09:33:22: Wouldn't it be nice if that Topre label was black? I think i've seen some Topre boards that do have black badges on them; I just think the white looks a bit out of place. Wouldn't stop me from buying one though.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 12 May 2009, 09:48:16: Quote from: ripster;90425
We don't need no stinkin badges!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lj056ao6GE

- Ripster

This is my prefered version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx6TBrfCW54
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 12 May 2009, 09:58:47: Blazing Saddles is great.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: rdjack21 on Tue, 12 May 2009, 10:52:26: Yea I've noticed that as well. I would also imagine that the market for a $300 keyboard is pretty limited. Just look at how many people have issues with spending $100 on a Filco when they first show up here. But after they have been here for a while they will spring for a Filco but getting people to spring for a RealForce or a HHKB pro for that matter is a lot harder.

It took me over a year of thinking about it before I would spend what RealForce wants for a board. But once I got that first one I'm a lot more willing to spend what they want for them to get more of them.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 12 May 2009, 10:55:35: I have been here for quite awhile, and I still will not consider buying a Topre without trying one first. Even then, I better need to take a shower after trying it before I spend that much on a keyboard.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: o2dazone on Tue, 12 May 2009, 12:24:43: I've only been here for a couple months and I've been considering buying an HHKB. All I need is a vendor that doesn't take forever to ship it or anything (not implying anything...just wishing Elitekeyboards would stock them soon lol)
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: keyb_gr on Tue, 12 May 2009, 14:19:38: :rofl:
ripster, YMMD. (I always wonder where people find this kind of stuff.)
Seems like a good time to try this smiley:
:boom:
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: bigpook on Tue, 12 May 2009, 14:34:12: Quote from: rdjack21;90442
Yea I've noticed that as well. I would also imagine that the market for a $300 keyboard is pretty limited. Just look at how many people have issues with spending $100 on a Filco when they first show up here. But after they have been here for a while they will spring for a Filco but getting people to spring for a RealForce or a HHKB pro for that matter is a lot harder.

It took me over a year of thinking about it before I would spend what RealForce wants for a board. But once I got that first one I'm a lot more willing to spend what they want for them to get more of them.

Thats pretty close to the truth for me. I was lucky and got a HHKB from a fellow geekhacker at a really good price. I was real hesitant to pay the full freight, always sitting on the fence.
Now that I have one, I can easily say it is worth the price.So much so that I am planning on getting a white one before Xmas.

If you can part with the money and are comfortable with the key layout then the HHKB should be on your short list.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 12 May 2009, 14:50:51: Quote from: ripster;90467
I like exploding animals. The exploding whale happened on the Oregon coast. This is hilarious - watch what happens to the parking lot cars. The last time one washed up on one of our beaches they just buried it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_t44siFyb4

- Ripster

You have to think about who came up with that bright idea. I mean, how could this have gone any different? I had a great laugh, though.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: watduzhkstand4 on Wed, 13 May 2009, 14:39:07: nice keyboard! It will be a while until I get my hands on these because they're just too expensive! How much did you get this for btw?
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 13 May 2009, 18:00:59: I think most people who have them paid around $300 for them.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: ozar on Wed, 13 May 2009, 18:07:05: Quote from: ch_123;90676
I think most people who have them paid around $300 for them.
If you are referring to the Topre 87U, I think they run between $300 and $350 shipped to the USA, depending on the version and any extra accessories. Mine was $348 for the all 55g English/Korean version.

Edit: correction... $354
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: watduzhkstand4 on Wed, 13 May 2009, 20:06:48: Quote from: ozar;90679
If you are referring to the Topre 87U, I think they run between $300 and $350 shipped to the USA, depending on the version and any extra accessories. Mine was $348 for the all 55g English/Korean version.

Edit: correction... $354

so where can you buy this thing? I'm looking forward to either getting this or the hhkb pro 2
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: ozar on Wed, 13 May 2009, 20:11:34: Quote from: watduzhkstand4;90702
so where can you buy this thing? I'm looking forward to either getting this or the hhkb pro 2
stlensbar sells both or either on eBay.

http://myworld.ebay.com/stlensbar/
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: ozar on Wed, 13 May 2009, 20:13:42: I personally like the HHKB Pro 2 a little better than the 87U because of the key layout and smaller footprint, but you can't go wrong with either board.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: watduzhkstand4 on Wed, 13 May 2009, 20:35:39: thanks guys =]
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: ozar on Wed, 13 May 2009, 20:42:22: Both, my HHKB Pro 2 and the Realforce 87U came from stlensbar on eBay and no problems.

The 87U showed up about 7 or 8 days after ordering (Korea to USA). The HHKB Pro 2 showed up 4 days after ordering (Japan to USA).
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: watduzhkstand4 on Thu, 14 May 2009, 00:54:47: Quote from: ozar;90717
Both, my HHKB Pro 2 and the Realforce 87U came from stlensbar on eBay and no problems.

The 87U showed up about 7 or 8 days after ordering (Korea to USA). The HHKB Pro 2 showed up 4 days after ordering (Japan to USA).

thanks for the info! I'll go check out that seller on ebay.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Thu, 14 May 2009, 07:54:14: I was wondering. How is Topre pronounced?
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 14 May 2009, 08:01:46: Quote from: patrickgeekhack;90791
I was wondering. How is Topre pronounced?

I think it is TOE-pur.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: wheel83 on Thu, 14 May 2009, 08:45:10: hot shots
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: keyb_gr on Thu, 14 May 2009, 09:40:27: Quote from: patrickgeekhack;90791
I was wondering. How is Topre pronounced?

My guess would be something along the lines of "toh-pre", but given they're a Japanese company, it's hard to tell what the correct one would be.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: Bluemercury on Thu, 14 May 2009, 15:32:18: My 87U also arrived today, but im having some fears changing the keys, whats the best way?

regards,
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: MANISH7 on Thu, 14 May 2009, 15:35:06: TOE-pur? Awww man that sounds too wimpy.

Thanks for the correction. I wrongly thought it was Topper. Meh, I'll continue to pronounce it as Topper. How many people will actually be able to correct me, :lol: ?
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: cchan on Thu, 14 May 2009, 15:41:22: I've always read it as "TOE-pree".
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: Bluemercury on Thu, 14 May 2009, 15:43:45: Also it seems the left control key has a led in there but it doesnt seem to turn on so far....
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: o2dazone on Thu, 14 May 2009, 15:55:13: It might be (but don't quote me) so that when you swap Ctrl with Capslock with DIM switches, you can tell if caps lock is on or not
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: Bluemercury on Thu, 14 May 2009, 16:03:31: Quote from: o2dazone;90888
It might be (but don't quote me) so that when you swap Ctrl with Capslock with DIM switches, you can tell if caps lock is on or not

You're right going by the site it seems thats the thing. Still ive seen the diagrams for swaping keys but i get the impression i start to pull with too much force.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: majestouch on Thu, 14 May 2009, 16:27:52: If Topre is originally Japanese, then it is probably pronounced, Toe-pu-ray, but it's a soft R closer to an L sound; formed with the tongue kind of like webwit describes.

BTW, is there any interest in all 55g Realforce boards in the US? I'll be carrying the standard Realforce soon, but 55g is a special item.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: Bluemercury on Thu, 14 May 2009, 16:38:04: Anyone can help in this thing of swaping the keys? also anyone knows where is the diagram of the g's section for the standard keyboard version?
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: rdjack21 on Thu, 14 May 2009, 17:43:31: Quote from: majestouch;90894
If Topre is originally Japanese, then it is probably pronounced, Toe-pu-ray, but it's a soft R closer to an L sound; formed with the tongue kind of like webwit describes.

BTW, is there any interest in all 55g Realforce boards in the US? I'll be carrying the standard Realforce soon, but 55g is a special item.

I would not mind having one :) But it will be a while before I can get one maybe spring time. I have a few other things I need to get first. I just hope I can still get one when I can get the funds to purchase one.

Also are you going to also have the HHKB Pro as well?

NOTE: You are going to kill the ebay market for new ones.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: Bluemercury on Thu, 14 May 2009, 17:53:19: Quote from: ripster;90899
Blue, here's the announcement thread - force diagrams are in there.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=81323#post81323

Key should be easy to swap - what problem are you having? Flip Dip 1 and yank that sucker.

I'm pronouncing it as if it's French - sounds more expensive that way. "Too-Pray" like "Ashley Dupre". Elliott Spitzer would get this joke.

I thought i only had to pull the key or do i need to rotate first?
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: majestouch on Thu, 14 May 2009, 17:55:58: Quote from: rdjack21;90907
I would not mind having one :) But it will be a while before I can get one maybe spring time. I have a few other things I need to get first. I just hope I can still get one when I can get the funds to purchase one.

Also are you going to also have the HHKB Pro as well?

NOTE: You are going to kill the ebay market for new ones.

Yes, HHKB as well, with sane shipping and a warranty.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: Bluemercury on Thu, 14 May 2009, 18:00:48: Quote from: majestouch;90911
Yes, HHKB as well, with sane shipping and a warranty.

Sorry to only catch this now, but what prices are going for?
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 14 May 2009, 18:02:28: Quote from: majestouch;90911
Yes, HHKB as well, with sane shipping and a warranty.

Thats pretty awesome, majestouch. I ordered a filco tenless with brown cherries from you and the pricing and service were very good. Its nice to see you branching out and offering more types of keyboards.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: Bluemercury on Thu, 14 May 2009, 18:06:43: Quote from: ripster;90914
LOL. I meant flip switch 1 on the DIP block. Then swap keys.

Actually, if you have the black model don't even bother swapping the keys - nobody can read them anyway and both keys have the LED windows so nobody breaks their keys.

Me, I could care less about the warranty. I took that sucker apart the next day.

Don't distract Majestouch until he ships those Blue Cherry Filcos. FOCUS. FOCUS. FOCUS.

its that i have that red esc key :(....but is there any special way or is only pulling?
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: majestouch on Thu, 14 May 2009, 18:10:53: Quote from: Bluemercury;90912
Sorry to only catch this now, but what prices are going for?

Are you wearing socks?

[insert crazy salesman price guarantee here]!!

...well, I haven't set prices yet, but they will be very competitive.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 14 May 2009, 18:20:30: OOOOhhhhh! Trackballs : )
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: majestouch on Thu, 14 May 2009, 18:20:44: Quote from: ripster;90919
Better be.

Watch out, BigPook will want you to stock TrackBalls next.

Did you say Blue Cherry availability is any day now?

I will cease to hijack this thread right about now;)

(blue cherries this month)
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: Bluemercury on Thu, 14 May 2009, 18:24:54: Quote from: ripster;90918
Show Image
(http://www.westsomersetonline.gov.uk/uploads/Tug%20of%20War%20web.jpg)

Puuuuulllll......

The Topre key caps are real simple. No possibility of breakage as long as you pull straight up. You should have that metal keycap puller in the box too.

yes, i have the metal puller.
Title: My Topre Realforce 87U Arrived Today
Post by: o2dazone on Thu, 14 May 2009, 19:06:02: Quote from: majestouch;90911
Yes, HHKB as well, with sane shipping and a warranty.

Yusss
attempting to wait patiently lol