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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: SonicRevolution on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:26:48

Title: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: SonicRevolution on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:26:48: (http://i.imgur.com/POTGnvc.jpg)

I am an audio professional by day and so I decided to do a series of recordings on every keyboard I own. I decided to record the most popular ones first.

UPDATE - Not a valid vimeo URL This link has all the recordings in one video. You guys can disregard the link below!

I have uploaded a Topre switch recording Not a valid vimeo URL if you are interested. More coming. (it's dull it's just me typing for 1 minute) But I used a very high quality shotgun mic (sennheiser) into a set of apogee pre's at 24bit/48khz. The mic distance never changed and I was in the same position each time typing with same amount of force.

1. Realforce 104u Topre
2. Unicomp Spacesaver Buckling Spring
3. Matias Quiet Tactile Pro Matias Alps *winner
4. Filco Camo - Cherry MX Blue with O-Ring Blue mod
5. CM Storm TK - Cherry MX Green
6. Tex Beetle - Cherry Black
7. KBT 60% - Cherry Black, Aluminum Case, PBT Caps
8. Corsair k75 - Cherry Red

I think Matias Quiet Pro especially deserves recognition as it was wrongfully and ignorantly accused of being super loud on Amazon review. (Which almost made me reconsider the purchase. /sigh and Amazon review sometimes) But I found that actually it's the quietest, living up to its name! It even beat out the O-ring dampened Cherry's Very impressive. And the board feels great!

I'll update this thread the rest of the video gets encoded (which is very soon)
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: Techno Trousers on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:29:46: I'm pretty surprised at how quiet my new Keycool 108 with MX Clear switches is. I think it would give the Matias quiet switch a run for its money. One of the big reasons is that I hardly bottom out on this one, and I'm a pretty heavy fingered typist.

MX green louder than buckling springs? That would be a shocker for sure.
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: SonicRevolution on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:31:36: Yes, the Greens were louder than the Buckling Springs. But not by much!
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:32:20: Hmm this would be easier if I could actually hear your samples.
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: SonicRevolution on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:33:24: Quote from: Sifo on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:32:20
Hmm this would be easier if I could actually hear your samples.

Fair enough, :) Let me render out the whole wave and upload it. :D
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:45:52: I want to hear, too.
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: amos5606 on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:46:19: I'd used a lubed mx vintage black, I think it's much quieter than my lubed & oring HHKB PRO2 in anyways EXCEPT the noisy cherry stabilizers....
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: SonicRevolution on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:47:37: It's rendering now. It'll be up on vimeo shortly. I condensed the vids so it plays for about 20 seconds a piece with a header. Vimeo won't let me upload and mp3. So the HD video is a tad large.
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: Zeal on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:54:11: Quote from: SonicRevolution on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:47:37
It's rendering now. It'll be up on vimeo shortly. I condensed the vids so it plays for about 20 seconds a piece with a header. Vimeo won't let me upload and mp3. So the HD video is a tad large.

You could also upload the mp3 to soundcloud :)

This is an interesting thread though. Will look forward to other comparisons!
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:59:24: Wow, excellent! Thanks very much for this data.

I am very interested in this sort of thing. Do you have a way of doing a waterfall graph of a keystroke? I think it will be useful for people to tell the relative pitches of each of the switches. Like, I see that cherry MX blue is louder than a green, but they have different pitches, right?

Thanks again!

Also, what switches are in your topre? 55g? 45g? 30g uniform with silencing pads?
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: boradori007 on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:01:06: interesting, thanks for your data.
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: SonicRevolution on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:03:28: Not a valid vimeo URL
Okay here is the upload! Fresh off the press! :D
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: SonicRevolution on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:06:12: Quote from: dorkvader on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:59:24

Also, what switches are in your topre? 55g? 45g? 30g uniform with silencing pads?

Topre Realforce 104UB :)
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: Zeal on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:08:01: Quote from: dorkvader on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:59:24
Like, I see that cherry MX green is louder than a green, but they have different pitches, right?

:))

Did you mean BS/Blue?
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:13:00: This is cool - thanks!

We like nerdy stuff like that around here :D :p
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: SonicRevolution on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:14:33: (http://i.imgur.com/gcU4P1l.jpg)

Here is the spectrum analysis. It corresponds with the order of the recording! :D
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: Hak Foo on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:16:21: Quote from: SonicRevolution on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:26:48
I think Matias Quiet Pro especially deserves recognition as it was wrongfully and ignorantly accused of being super loud on Amazon review. (Which almost made me reconsider the purchase. /sigh and Amazon review sometimes) But I found that actually it's the quietest, living up to its name! It even beat out the O-ring dampened Cherry's Very impressive. And the board feels great!

I think the thing is that they make both quiet and loud switches, and their product naming is non-intuitive. 'Tactile' in branding typically is used for stuff like MX Brown/Clear switches which are relatively quiet, but for Matias boards, it means the loudest switch they can find.
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: ideus on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:17:44: No browns in your sample?
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: lunr on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:18:24: Thanks for the data. I'm surprised that PBT key caps makes a huge difference in terms of sound.
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: SonicRevolution on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:25:04: Quote from: lunr on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:18:24
Thanks for the data. I'm surprised that PBT key caps makes a huge difference in terms of sound.

Next batch! :) I hate to admit my bias but Browns are my least favorite so they got shoved in the "2nd" batch! I DO own Ducky Browns so I will do Browns in the next set!
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: ideus on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:30:19: Quote from: SonicRevolution on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:25:04
Quote from: lunr on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:18:24
Thanks for the data. I'm surprised that PBT key caps makes a huge difference in terms of sound.

Next batch! :) I hate to admit my bias but Browns are my least favorite so they got shoved in the "2nd" batch! I DO own Ducky Browns so I will do Browns in the next set!

Browns also have their own heart :thumb:
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: dorkvader on Wed, 02 April 2014, 01:29:52: Quote from: Zeal on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:08:01
Quote from: dorkvader on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:59:24
Like, I see that cherry MX green is louder than a green, but they have different pitches, right?

:))

Did you mean BS/Blue?

Yeah, I had changed the post around and didnt recheck the grammar. edited.

Quote from: SonicRevolution on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:14:33
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/gcU4P1l.jpg)

Here is the spectrum analysis. It corresponds with the order of the recording! :D

Amazing! thanks!

Quote from: SonicRevolution on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:06:12
Quote from: dorkvader on Tue, 01 April 2014, 23:59:24

Also, what switches are in your topre? 55g? 45g? 30g uniform with silencing pads?

Topre Realforce 104UB :)
I only have one topre: I don't have all the model numbers memorized like I do IBM. Is it variable weight, I guess? I'll go and look it up.

edit: yeah. it's variable weight.
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: noisyturtle on Wed, 02 April 2014, 03:03:12: I would be interested in seeing o-ringed reds as well. Surprised o-ringed blues were slightly quieter than stock reds.
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: saltdiscus on Wed, 02 April 2014, 18:35:08: does this apply to ducky too?
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 02 April 2014, 19:58:11: This is great!

Now you just need to obtain about 20 more keyboards, to provide more data points. ;-)

I wonder if there's any way to disentangle the separate effects of switch, keycaps, plate, pcb, and case, when it comes to the final sound. It would be neat to have some kind of metric of switch loudness based on a standardized context, and then some further measurements about how other aspects besides the keyswitch itself affect the sound. [At least for modular switches like MX or Alps; buckling springs are pretty much stuck in their own context.]
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: SonicRevolution on Thu, 03 April 2014, 01:03:02: Quote from: jacobolus on Wed, 02 April 2014, 19:58:11
This is great!

Now you just need to obtain about 20 more keyboards, to provide more data points. ;-)

I wonder if there's any way to disentangle the separate effects of switch, keycaps, plate, pcb, and case, when it comes to the final sound. It would be neat to have some kind of metric of switch loudness based on a standardized context, and then some further measurements about how other aspects besides the keyswitch itself affect the sound. [At least for modular switches like MX or Alps; buckling springs are pretty much stuck in their own context.]

Haha! Yes! I think that result would be super interesting and could further expose perhaps some of our own bias towards a certain type of "switch/keycap" that we subconsciously prefer. It maybe that we prefer the "sound" as much as anything that is "tactile"
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: Smasher816 on Thu, 03 April 2014, 22:29:05: You need to get your hands on some silenced topre love. I wonder if it will end up beating the Matias Quiet.

I know the case and keycap material also contribute to the sound as they change how much sound is echoed around.
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: SonicRevolution on Fri, 04 April 2014, 02:10:35: Hmm, using the dental band mod? I actually don't mind the sound of the undampened topres. I would like to know if anyone had done a buckling spring silence mod? Surely someone has?
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: C5Allroad on Fri, 04 April 2014, 19:57:43: Great video!
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: esko997 on Fri, 04 April 2014, 21:30:24: Quote from: SonicRevolution on Wed, 02 April 2014, 00:03:28
Not a valid vimeo URL
Okay here is the upload! Fresh off the press! :D

Great video, thanks so much for making/uploading :thumb:
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: Coreda on Fri, 04 April 2014, 21:38:12: Nice video :thumb: One thing that caught my attention was I couldn't tell if in the tests you were bottoming out, which would obviously affect the loudness.

I'd be interested where the Apple chiclet keys fall within these results. They are definitely quieter than my Cherry Reds, even before bottoming-out. Most likely wouldn't care much as they are rubber dome, but for new users it's always helpful having something to compare.
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: SonicRevolution on Sat, 05 April 2014, 01:00:26: You make a good point. I was typing normally trying neither to consciously bottom out or not. I tried to limit the comparison among mech's but I don't see why scissor or domed keyboards can't be in the next set of recordings.
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: davkol on Sat, 05 April 2014, 15:48:38: #CherryMY
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 10 April 2014, 02:10:45: If you have access to an IBM model M, I’d be curious to see how it compares when recorded with your setup.
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: SonicRevolution on Sun, 13 April 2014, 02:02:29: You're welcome! Visit my blog for more videos of my other keyboard builds if you're interested! :D Link is in my signature!
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: Oobly on Sun, 13 April 2014, 02:55:55: I noticed you only sampled blues with orings, no other MX with orings. I'd like to hear Browns with orings in the comparison as I think they'd give the Topre a run for their money in terms of loudness and tone (especially with thick POM or PBT caps on). Also, the type of caps (thickness and material) and orings (thickness and hardness) make a fair difference to the sound of MX switches, so it'd be great if you mentioned which you are using for each test.

I have to say, I really don't like the click sound of MX clicky switches. It's rather high pitched and toy-like to my ears. Much prefer the beefier buckling spring click or MX tactile switches without a click, since they don't sound as "cheap".
Title: Re: Keyboard Loudness Test - Guess who's the quietest?
Post by: SonicRevolution on Mon, 14 April 2014, 11:50:12: Quote from: Oobly on Sun, 13 April 2014, 02:55:55
I noticed you only sampled blues with orings, no other MX with orings. I'd like to hear Browns with orings in the comparison as I think they'd give the Topre a run for their money in terms of loudness and tone (especially with thick POM or PBT caps on). Also, the type of caps (thickness and material) and orings (thickness and hardness) make a fair difference to the sound of MX switches, so it'd be great if you mentioned which you are using for each test.

I have to say, I really don't like the click sound of MX clicky switches. It's rather high pitched and toy-like to my ears. Much prefer the beefier buckling spring click or MX tactile switches without a click, since they don't sound as "cheap".

Very sharp observation. I have to say that while I try not to be biased, since everyone has their own preferences. But the more you use mechs, at some point, you realize that while Cherry switches are brilliant, I think it's really a brilliant compromise. Which is to say, it was a solution to a problem for the masses.

From a pure audio perspective, PBT (thick or thicker) caps and Topre switches are just really pleasing. It's mid range tone and has a nice body to it. Pretty much every cherry configuration (with the exception of Cherry Blacks with thick PBT) can't compete with the this. (IMHO) You are absolutely correct in Cherry switches having a "thinner" and "pingy" quality. It's attention grabbing at first, but when you compare with something like the Topre/PBT combo, it's not as pleasant or satisfying. This feels nuanced but for the experience mech user, it's very clear.

I'm not saying Topre/PBT's are the better than others. But it's very interesting from an aural perspective I think there is empirical data to support preference by experienced mech user the Topre/PBT combo.

Having said that, like you suggested, Cherry Brown/PBT/O-Ring could be very pleasing. I'm adding this to my list of tests for the next batch! :D