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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: adamrice on Tue, 07 April 2009, 13:16:45
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This thing (http://i.gizmodo.com/5201428/logitech-g19-keyboard-review) is ridiculous. A keyboard that happens to have a QVGA screen and embedded Linux for…I'm not sure what. It also has a metric ****load of keys, a knob, and a D-pad. Truly the anti-tenkeyless.
How much of the price do you suppose is going into the keyswitches though?
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Hey look, my PG vocabulary got asterisked-out!
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for such terrible keyboards too...now if there was something good with nifty gizmos like that then we'd be talking
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Rubber dome? Next, please!
-huha
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Whats with the display?
awful, simply awful
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It's got a knob.
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It's got a knob.
Actually, all it needs now is a microwave oven (to make popcorn) and while we are at it lets wedge in a trackball. I didn't look close enough, but can only assume it has lots of led's too. Maybe a train whistle?
I bet the typing feel is awesome.
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Maybe a train whistle?
LOL, that was so random. I'm trying not to look like an idiot at work right now.
At least not more so than I normally do.
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I bet the typing feel is awesome.
Type??? Dude, it has a screen... and a knob!
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This has been posted I'm sure.
Didn't someone post it with pictures of the design process?
I think I would have liked it when I was 14.
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Logitech's keys are a perfect balance of punchy and squishy and just really feel fantastic—it's why they haven't messed with the formula in a long time.
What makes it impressive is the fact that it's its own mini-computer, so matter how intensive the game you're running is—Left 4 Dead, for instance—you can pop up a YouTube video or your rip of Dawn of the Dead with no slowdown at all, and every applet runs quickly and smoothly. They're all pretty to use and configure as well.
I've lost all faith in Logitech.
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This has been posted I'm sure.
Didn't someone post it with pictures of the design process?
I think I would have liked it when I was 14.
Yeah, it was something like pics of the prototype, or something. It's just amazing the amount of excess in this thing, and exactly zero of it improves the "main" functionality of the keyboard, typing. Amazing.
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It's just amazing the amount of excess in this thing, and exactly zero of it improves the "main" functionality of the keyboard, typing. Amazing.
Typical case of "consumer crap" (technical term). All bling and no meat. It's not like it would be entirely surprising, given the way consumer keyboards have been going in the last 10 years or so.
It's certainly kinda neat that one can do something like that, but the actual usefulness is highly debatable. Cool stuff for a 14-year-old, that may be right. Maybe Logitech figured that if the 1337 g4m3r2 have pockets deep enough for other kinds of state-of-the-art hardware, they might want a keyboard to match as well.
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At least they didn't mess with the layout.
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At least they didn't mess with the layout.
Ah, the silver-lining approach. Well done, sir.
Too bad the rest of the 'board has seen a great deal of excess in the use of silver lining.
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At least they didn't mess with the layout.
Well that's something.
Not related to the G19, but Logitech in general - I wonder what genius decided that it would be a good idea to produce keyboards with:
- No scroll lock key
- Double height Delete key
- Multimedia keys instead of F-keys by default
I can understand why there are ISO and ANSI layouts, but this mangling of layout serves no purpose whatsoever. I stopped buying Logitech and Microsoft keyboards when they started playing that game. Now they produce keyboards with normal layout but instead tack on a whole heap of useless crap that nobody will ever realistically use.
What is the bloody point of being able to see a selection of YouTube videos WHILST PLAYING A GAME!?!
I'd really like to get a bag of whatever modern keyboard designers are using.
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What is the bloody point of being able to see a selection of YouTube videos WHILST PLAYING A GAME!?!
I was really trying to figure that out myself. Perhaps there are video games out there I'm not aware of. I'm reminded of Tai Chi, which is basically the same as martial arts, but reaaaaaaaaally slooooooooow. Perhaps there's an equivalent to the first-person shooter where the game operates at a more leisurely pace that encourages reflection, or at least multi-tasking.
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Bunch of idiots. $200 on that piece of crap. You can actually buy several keyboards that actually feel good to type on with that money.
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I'm confused. Is that thing meant to be a keyboard, or a laptop? :p
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- No scroll lock key
What is that supposed to do anyway...I use it as a windows key for keyboards without windows keys.
- Double height Delete key
You a fan of accidentally hitting Insert all the time? That's why they did that, people complain about that all the time. Insert is dumb anyway I bind it as a compose key.
- Multimedia keys instead of F-keys by default
Must have used Apples and Nexts a lot.
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The only real use for Scroll Lock these days is Excel. You can use it with the arrow keys to scroll instead of to change cells.
And for me, the insert key is essential. I use it to paste in terminals and in Dvorak (shift+insert).
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You a fan of accidentally hitting Insert all the time? That's why they did that, people complain about that all the time. Insert is dumb anyway I bind it as a compose key.
Must have used Apples and Nexts a lot.
Many editors use it to toggle insert/overstrike mode.
I personally got myself wired to the old (Win31/Motif/OS/2) style "Shift-Insert" paste keystroke. So I usually type that instead of Control-V, which makes it great fun when I can't find Insert.
If you're missing delete THAT often, the keyboard may not be your problem :)
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What is that supposed to do anyway...I use it as a windows key for keyboards without windows keys.
It's used on most KVM switches as the hotkey to switch between computers. It beats grovelling behind a desk to switch using the buttons on the KVM and it sure as hell beats having to buy a stupid KVM that uses CTRL or SHIFT to switch computers.
You a fan of accidentally hitting Insert all the time? That's why they did that, people complain about that all the time. Insert is dumb anyway I bind it as a compose key.
I don't think I've ever hit Insert by mistake when going for delete or vice versa. What about applications where you have to use SHIFT+INS instead of CTRL+V? Rather than two keys next to each other you now have to reach up to the top of the keyboard for the INS key. It's stupid, and frankly if people have such difficulty with that day to day, then it's as good a justification as any that everyone should have to take a computer driving licence before being allowed anywhere near a computer.
Must have used Apples and Nexts a lot.
I would rather have F1, F2, F3... F12 than some stupid multimedia key mapping. What about BIOSes that require you to press F2 to enter? Some of these keyboards "forget" the F-Lock preference after being powered off. The Cherry approach of having an additional modifier key (as on the Cymotion range) makes more sense.
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http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard/devices/4956&cl=us,en
Multi-key input: Use up to five keys at once to perform multiple complex actions.
Really, Logitech? Really?
Why does it always feel like keyboard technology is regressing instead of progressing? Where available, we go from n-key rollover to 6-key rollover. Sometimes that happens with 'progress'. Now they want to sell 'gamers' 200 dollar keyboards with 5-key rollover?
By now, we should see premium keyboards that do 6-key rollover on USB no matter what, with a driver that enables n-key rollover. Does this keyboard need a driver installed for the other shenanigans? I've never seen something so ridiculous...
Package Contents
Logitech® G19 Keyboard for gaming
AC power adapter
Software CD-ROM
User documentation
1-year limited hardware warranty
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By now, we should see premium keyboards that do 6-key rollover on USB no matter what, with a driver that enables n-key rollover.
Which ones precisely?
-huha
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He said we should see them. We aren't.
Anyway, it needs drivers to feed the LCD. But, most multimedia keyboards need drivers, actually.
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Package Contents
Logitech® G19 Keyboard for gaming
AC power adapter
Software CD-ROM
User documentation
1-year limited hardware warranty
you had the wrong thing bolded. What kind of keyboard needs a flipping power brick?
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Package Contents
Logitech® G19 Keyboard for gaming
AC power adapter
Software CD-ROM
User documentation
1-year limited hardware warranty
you had the wrong thing bolded. What kind of keyboard needs a flipping power brick?
You, too, had the wrong thing bolded. What kind of keyboard needs user documentation?
-huha
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You, too, had the wrong thing bolded. What kind of keyboard needs user documentation?
-huha
Hey, even my G80-3000 came with a doc sheet.
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Doc sheets aren't entirely necessary, but they are nice. It makes the consumer feel better about the purchase. That's why it has been so hard for PC game publishers to move away from the old cardboard box & big manual packaging.
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I would have liked my HHKB2 to have come with doc sheets. I had trouble figuring out what the different DIP switches did (what does "HHKB Lite layout" mean precisely, for example)
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why don't you just look for the docs online...you can read Japanese, right? No problem. ;)
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I would have liked my HHKB2 to have come with doc sheets. I had trouble figuring out what the different DIP switches did (what does "HHKB Lite layout" mean precisely, for example)
Check this out (http://www.pfusystems.com/hhkeyboard/leaflet/hairetu.html)
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Check this out (http://www.pfusystems.com/hhkeyboard/leaflet/hairetu.html)
Yah, I found all that already... but it was a lot more work than it should have been. PFU's website (both America and Japan) is not organized well.
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Yah, I found all that already... but it was a lot more work than it should have been. PFU's website (both America and Japan) are not organized well.
Kind of like Unicomps....
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Unicomp has a website? :confused: :p
(A Yahoo store is not a corporate site. ;))
Anyway, the manual isn't at all a concern, any keyboard with multimedia keys needs a driver CD, and there are other keyboards with power bricks. (Besides, if you want the keyboard's internal USB hub to be powered, then you're gonna need a power brick.)
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Unicomp has a website? :confused: :p
(A Yahoo store is not a corporate site. ;))
Anyway, the manual isn't at all a concern, any keyboard with multimedia keys needs a driver CD, and there are other keyboards with power bricks. (Besides, if you want the keyboard's internal USB hub to be powered, then you're gonna need a power brick.)
True, but I guess it shows how sad the Unicomp situation really is. Their keyboards are still mighty fine though.
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I think there is a "chicken/egg" thing going on with Unicomp's website. It saves them money by not building a fancy website - savings they can pass on to the consumer. However, by not having a nice website, they may lose business that could help pay for the website.
All in all, as was discussed a few weeks ago, Unicomp should have an updated website (and logo) to reel in more buyers.
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there are other keyboards with power bricks
wait, WHAT? I can understand having an internal USB hub, but can't fathom what else a board would need a brick for
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wait, WHAT? I can understand having an internal USB hub, but can't fathom what else a board would need a brick for
I like to throw bricks at crappy keyboards.
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The Optimus Maximus needs one to power all the OLED displays.
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The logitech gaming keyboards always feel like toys, i just sold my G15 v2 and I'm glad its gone.
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The logitech gaming keyboards always feel like toys, i just sold my G15 v2 and I'm glad its gone.
I know exactly what you mean. My girlfriend has one and I can't stand to type on it. It actually feels worse than their own $6 budget keyboard.
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The only real use for Scroll Lock these days is Excel. You can use it with the arrow keys to scroll instead of to change cells.
And for me, the insert key is essential. I use it to paste in terminals and in Dvorak (shift+insert).
Yes, but why does it have to be in such an awful place? Many times I've hit insert when aiming for delete and ended up overwriting half a line instead of just deleting a single character. I'd personally like it to be the mirror image of the backspace key and on the same line (or replacing the `¬¦ key), insert would be much better at the other side of that cluster.
Doc sheets aren't entirely necessary, but they are nice. It makes the consumer feel better about the purchase. That's why it has been so hard for PC game publishers to move away from the old cardboard box & big manual packaging.
That and the fact that some games use the manual a lot (my NWN manual is so crinkled half the front cover can no longer be made out).
Personally, I quite like the G19. It's kind of a modern-day anykey/omnikey. It's major problem is that logitech's key feel and general choice of materials isn't very nice.
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I'd love an Optimus Maximums (gluteus maximums? either way, the thing's assy) and one of these Logitechs. I'd carefully unbox them, set them side-by-side, and weild my '86 1390120 to break each of them in half. One swing apiece would do the job, and the world would be a better place, for two POS--and I don't mean point of sale--'boards will fly to the silicon netherworld.
I like Brandon's take on modern keyboards (http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/pages.main/pageID/2) and why none of them can ever be mentioned in the same breath as an M:
No extraneous function keys for "Windows", or "sleep", "check mail", "hibernate", "more lotion".
No shiny shiny plastic that needs constant cleaning and polishing to remove fingerprints. No clear plastic to trap and collect lunchtime crumbs and hair and to grow science experiments.
I'll say it again: everyone can have all these other 'boards; nothing approaches a Model M.
Cheers,
~rn
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LOL. If you ever win the jackpot and can afford such luxurious entertainment, be sure to post the video!
Sure thing. Just before the death blow to each of these things, I'd shout, for geekhack! :lol:
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I'll say it again: everyone can have all these other 'boards; nothing approaches a Model M.
Cheers,
~rn
That's true, for stupid layouts nothing approaches IBM's design in the Model M. Who's bright idea was putting caps lock on biggest key on the right side of the keyboard? And what on earth is ¬ supposed to be?
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I'd love an Optimus Maximums (gluteus maximums? either way, the thing's assy) and one of these Logitechs. I'd carefully unbox them, set them side-by-side, and weild my '86 1390120 to break each of them in half. One swing apiece would do the job, and the world would be a better place, for two POS--and I don't mean point of sale--'boards will fly to the silicon netherworld.
No, what you'd do if you had that sort of money would be to employ someone to correct the stupid mistakes IBM made with the Model M, especially with it's layout.
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The best use for the screen would be for diagnostic purposes:
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lol ^
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The best use for the screen would be for diagnostic purposes
If it's Linux then it's not going to be decent enough to actually give you an error message.
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It's a shame Logitech don't offer the screen separately. I'd consider buying a small screen with volume/media controls if the price was right (which it probably wouldn't be, but that's not the point here) just for the fun of it.
-huha
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It's a shame Logitech don't offer the screen separately. I'd consider buying a small screen with volume/media controls if the price was right (which it probably wouldn't be, but that's not the point here) just for the fun of it.
-huha
That would be a very, very nice thing to have. Though I don't think it would be that hard to build one - just get a small, maybe 7" monitor, then take apart a standard multimedia USB keyboard and wire some switches to the media buttons. Stick it all in a nice acrylic case and you've got yourself what you're looking for. You can even make the video go through the USB cable with one of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812225007).
Hell, if you wanna buy all the parts I can build it for you in about a week or two.
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If it's Linux then it's not going to be decent enough to actually give you an error message.
: ) if its linux then it probably wouldn't have crashed in the first place : )
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7" is way too big. 2" or 3" would be okay, but not more--it's just an auxiliary display you don't really need, not a tertiary screen.
-huha
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: ) if its linux then it probably wouldn't have crashed in the first place : )
Operating Systems rarely crash (well, let's just forget about the win95 line for the sake of simplifying things, okay?)--the software does. Most of the time, software means third-party drivers, but badly written applications can and will cause operating systems to misbehave. I've had Linux throw kernel panics for no reason whatsoever as well as Windows crashing out of blue skies. Oh, and the first time I used a Mac (OS 8 if I recall correctly), it crashed horribly after a few minutes.
Given the extremely great software quality of Logitech's Windows software (keyboard driver software crashing at least once a day!), I wouldn't be too confident in this respect. But it might as well have gotten better by now, as the software incident was quite some time ago.
-huha
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Oh, and the first time I used a Mac (OS 8 if I recall correctly), it crashed horribly after a few minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEAGmBRC1dc&feature=PlayList&p=8B5FE92702CD09FA&index=0&playnext=1
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Operating Systems rarely crash (well, let's just forget about the win95 line for the sake of simplifying things, okay?)--the software does. Most of the time, software means third-party drivers, but badly written applications can and will cause operating systems to misbehave. I've had Linux throw kernel panics for no reason whatsoever as well as Windows crashing out of blue skies. Oh, and the first time I used a Mac (OS 8 if I recall correctly), it crashed horribly after a few minutes.
Given the extremely great software quality of Logitech's Windows software (keyboard driver software crashing at least once a day!), I wouldn't be too confident in this respect. But it might as well have gotten better by now, as the software incident was quite some time ago.
-huha
I had a kernel panic once, I think it was hardware that caused it. But that was like 10 years ago.
Windows crashes were way more frequent, though as of late XP has only blue screened maybe 10 times on me. Win 95 was awful.
But it has gotten better.
But the blue screen of death is something we are ALL familiar with.
That and Ctrl-Alt-Delete for the login screen.
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Windows crashes were way more frequent, though as of late XP has only blue screened maybe 10 times on me.
I don't think I've seen an inexplicable blue-screen since the early days of Windows 2000.
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My last blue screen was due to some bad memory in my rig. Otherwise, I can't remember the last time I had a blue screen.
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What is the bloody point of being able to see a selection of YouTube videos WHILST PLAYING A GAME!?!
I'd really like to get a bag of whatever modern keyboard designers are using.
Not only the keyboard designers but also the game designers must be on something, because they seem to create games (cough wow, cough eq, cough, lineage2, cough cough) that are so boring that players are able to watch youtube and "play" at the same time.
Perhaps, in the future, FPS games will be more fun blindfolded since the combinations developers keep shuffling is likely to get more exciting that way. Or perhaps they will tell us that its more fun on a small screen with a dpad, so everyone will run out and by a G19 in order to play Crysis VII.
You earn points for using "whilst" in a sentence btw. Bravo.
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they seem to create games (cough wow, cough eq, cough, lineage2, cough cough) that are so boring that players are able to watch youtube and "play" at the same time.
Yeah, about as bad as this (http://gamerblips.dailyradar.com/story/popcap_games_play_bejeweled_and_peggle_in_wow/)
Wow does indeed have an extensive addon backend and community, and the api hooks are great...but jesus. I know where this all fits too. You're in raid, you've just cleared up to the second to last boss in the dungeon, so it's too far to run out and summon. You're waiting for two members to get to whatever dungeon it is, and you have 5 minutes to spend waiting.
This is all just begging for an Xhibit joke "Yo man I heard ya like games..."
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This is all just begging for an Xhibit joke "Yo man I heard ya like games..."
You got it... http://www.theonion.com/content/video/warcraft_sequel_lets_gamers_play (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/warcraft_sequel_lets_gamers_play)
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My last blue screen was due to some bad memory in my rig. Otherwise, I can't remember the last time I had a blue screen.
I used to have 'em every few weeks or so, but it seems a bit of thermal paste on one of the processors took care of that. Sometimes the sound card drivers act up, but last time that happened the system merely slowed to snailspeed (but became unusable nonetheless). Otherwise the system has been rock solid.
@work you could have caught me cursing a cheapo Asrock board a few times, as the darn thing needs to warm up a few minutes before the electrolytics can take the load jumps with bus disconnect on (and waking up from hibernation usually is too fast).
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@work you could have caught me cursing a cheapo Asrock board a few times, as the darn thing needs to warm up a few minutes before the electrolytics can take the load jumps with bus disconnect on (and waking up from hibernation usually is too fast).
I saw that model on newegg, but avoided it due to the copious vacuum tubes used throughout the design.
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I used to have 'em every few weeks or so, but it seems a bit of thermal paste on one of the processors took care of that. Sometimes the sound card drivers act up, but last time that happened the system merely slowed to snailspeed (but became unusable nonetheless). Otherwise the system has been rock solid.
@work you could have caught me cursing a cheapo Asrock board a few times, as the darn thing needs to warm up a few minutes before the electrolytics can take the load jumps with bus disconnect on (and waking up from hibernation usually is too fast).
I saw that model on newegg, but avoided it due to the copious vacuum tubes used throughout the design.
Is this your computer (see attached)?
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I saw that model on newegg, but avoided it due to the copious vacuum tubes used throughout the design.
That's AOpen, not ASRock: http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/aopenax4btube/
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I always liked the lower-tier manufacturers-- ECS and ASRock-- just because of their "we'll try anything once" mindset.
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1829
My old Socket 939 rig had an ASRock board-- they were the only ones to use the ULI 1695 chipset to produce two full x16 slots (which was torpedoed by nVidia being jerks about SLI compatibility), and they offered a card which let you install a Socket AM2 processor on the same board (but it won't take many of the later processors)
OTOH, I like Gigabyte gear for their "we're fixated on durability" mindset, in spite of the fact a board rarely lasts two years in my PC.
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I always liked the lower-tier manufacturers-- ECS and ASRock-- just because of their "we'll try anything once" mindset.
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1829
My old Socket 939 rig had an ASRock board-- they were the only ones to use the ULI 1695 chipset to produce two full x16 slots (which was torpedoed by nVidia being jerks about SLI compatibility), and they offered a card which let you install a Socket AM2 processor on the same board (but it won't take many of the later processors)
OTOH, I like Gigabyte gear for their "we're fixated on durability" mindset, in spite of the fact a board rarely lasts two years in my PC.
I use the same ASRock 'board on my home rig.
My rig at home is so old. :( I don't really use it, anyway.
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Want to know what my newest desktop motherboard is?
(http://bhtooefr.ath.cx/images/ca810e320.jpg)
Except Dell left off the on-board sound and ethernet.
(Yes, that's a Socket 370 board with an i810E chipset. :lol:)
I've got a second one for spares, but want to know what my next newest board is?
(http://bhtooefr.ath.cx/images/RPC7001G.JPG)
Mine would've been made circa 1997-1998, but that's a 1994 design with some updates made in 1995-1996 or so. No, that slot in the corner isn't PCI, it's a proprietary connector for a proprietary expansion backplane. (The slots on the left are the CPU sockets, it can take two CPUs (in normal use, that's one ARM, one 486. The slot in the middle is a proprietary network (ethernet or Acorn-specific "econet") slot.
Here's the sad part... the CPU on that thing (in my case, a 233 MHz StrongARM) is likely slower than the CPU in the Logitech G19. What has this world come to?