geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Harms on Wed, 02 April 2014, 21:56:34
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Hi guys i was wondering what is the lowest force alps switch that is available on modern keyboards like filcos n stuff ahah thanks guys and how does it feel
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The only new ones that I have tried are the green Duckys which are truly awful.
I suspect that the Matias flavor is much better, but can't say for sure.
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Virtually the only choice for a modern Alps board now is Matias. Their quiet switch doesn't require too much force. Main difference between Alps and Cherry switches is that the Alps tactile bump is at the very beginning of the travel.
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I was trying to find alps switch that is 45-50g in force that nice and different
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You can swap out springs on Alps switches just like Cherry.
Finding a spring the right size might be a bit more difficult though.
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If you take an existing Alps switch and cut the spring shorter, you get a lighter switch, although there’s only so much of this you can do before you start changing the feel of the switch. You can get away with more on the old complicated linear switches than on tactile or clicky switches, or simplified (or clone) linear switches.
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I was trying to find alps switch that is 45-50g in force that nice and different
Matias switches are rated at 60±5 gf, but the quiet click switch (the only one I have in a full keyboard) doesn't feel as heavy as that suggests. I don't see any reason why you'd need to alter or replace the spring — the weighting on those is really good.
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Matias switches are rated at 60±5 gf, but the quiet click switch (the only one I have in a full keyboard) doesn't feel as heavy as that suggests. I don't see any reason why you'd need to alter or replace the spring — the weighting on those is really good.
60 ± 5 gf sounds about right to me. Note that because they are more tactile and have less travel to the actuation point than Cherry switches, they require less *work* to actuate for the same actuation force. A Matias switch feels a bit lighter than a Cherry MX clear, or a bit heavier than a Cherry MX brown, but more tactile than either one.
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For an older Alps board, something with orange Alps is going to be the lightest. You can find those on Made in Japan Apple IIGS keyboards, some original Apple Extended, and I think a couple other models.
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"Official" list is here:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCM_Orange#Keyboards
Thanks, I forgot all about the Apple Desktop Bus Keyboard! I've added that to the list where it belongs.
Obviously, add any missing keyboards to the list (with photos or a reference to a page with photos).
PS "Skyriter"? A typewriter made by a company who can't spell? That's funny.
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"Skyriter"? A typewriter made by a company who can't spell?
When my daughter was learning the letters of the alphabet and their sounds, she came home one day and said:
"Daddy, "elephant" starts with "L"!"
and I was too disheartened to explain it to her.
Elephant should start with L, shouldn't it?
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:blank:
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For an older Alps board, something with orange Alps is going to be the lightest.
Both green and blue Alps are lighter than orange.
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i am really interested in matias, but i just bought my hhkb :cool: dont want to splurge more money on boards yet. Does anyone know matias alps switch is linear or tactile. I prefer linear.
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er sry techno trousers ald answer it, tactile it is. :thumb:
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Does anyone know matias alps switch is linear or tactile. I prefer linear.
Either dampened tactile, or clicky. If you remove the tactile leaf from the quiet switch, you get a fairly nice linear switch, but it might be a bit wobbly for your taste.
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sounds wobbly >.<
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Do note, the Matias “tactile” switch is a very different feeling from a Cherry “tactile” switch. Cherry MX brown and clear switches would be better called “lumpy linear” in my opinion. There’s no steep drop in force like you get with e.g. an Alps switch or a buckling spring. If you think you prefer linear switches, it could be because you haven’t tried good tactile switches.
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I wouldn't class brown and clear together — they're quite different. Clears are very tactile, and the sharp rise in force after the tactile peak helps prevent bottoming out. MX clear is also much smoother than Matias quiet click.
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MX clear is also much smoother than Matias quiet click.
Smoother in what sense? There’s more scratchy plastic-on-plastic friction in the cherry switch. I suspect that if you take a high-resolution force curve and run a high-pass filter over it, you’ll have more jitter left in the graph of the cherry switch.
MX brown and MX clear feel different from each-other, but they’re not fundamentally different: it’s a difference of degree, not type. The force curves of other tactile switches are much more substantially different.
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I don't feel all the plastic-on-plastic scratchiness that people complain about with Cherry, not with blue, brown, clear or red. I did have a few brown switches in my Filco MJ1 that were physically and audibly scratchy from new, which was annoying. I don't notice that any more though, though I think the feel is still there.
My Quiet Pro, though, has switches that feel slightly juddery, like the slider repeatedly digs in on its way down. This is ironic considering that the orange pigment was abandoned due to it affecting switch feel. It's a real shame, as the feel of quiet click switches is otherwise excellent. The new ones have a grey slider, so maybe the plastics have been changed and this is no longer a problem; I really don't know. I do know that I am not alone in having this issue with the quiet click switches.
MX clear on the other hand feels smooth. Not like blue Alps smooth — nothing else compares with those.