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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: tbc on Sun, 06 April 2014, 21:07:42

Title: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: tbc on Sun, 06 April 2014, 21:07:42: So I finished soldering my MD ergodox today.

but it's not working -_-

How exactly do i 'debug' my assembly?

I installed the firmware.hex and firmware.eep files (in the wrong order though). How do I check if it's a software issues vs a soldering issue?

one important thing is that I never actually soldered the usb port or the exposed usb cables to the board. does this affect functionality or is it simply a convenience thing?

NOTE: first in a LONG line of problems i suspect.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: dorkvader on Mon, 07 April 2014, 00:50:39: Quote from: tbc on Sun, 06 April 2014, 21:07:42
How exactly do i 'debug' my assembly?
Do you have a multimeter? I had issues with the firmware not working as well. If you think you may have messed up in soldering it together, try to get reasonably clear pictures of the PCB.

I'd advise you reflash the firmware and bridge a row and column (use a multimeter in amps mode, or like a paperclip or something) to see if you get output, then finish up to test the rest of the KB.

If you didn't solder the USB connection, I think it will be fine. The RH, at least, should work. I think the LH probably too, but I can't remember if there';s continuity between the teensy VCC and thee trrs jack. Pretty sure there is, though.
Quote from: tbc on Sun, 06 April 2014, 21:07:42
NOTE: first in a LONG line of problems i suspect.
Nah, you'll be fine.

EDIT: You must solder the USB header and short USB pigtail or nothing will work.
Title: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: steve.v on Mon, 07 April 2014, 02:11:22: The eep file isn't really required. Can the computer see that there's a usb hardware connected? If not I would do a continuity check on the soldering connections. See if there's any reading on the trrs and teensy connections. Also check to see if any of the diodes are placed wrong, remember that the line is faced towards the square pad. Use whitedragonfires's video for reference.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: tricheboars on Mon, 07 April 2014, 09:47:34: did the teensy flash its yellow/orange light every 2 seconds before you tried to program it?

i finished my dox this weekend and needed help. my biggest suggestion is make an imgur album full of your soldering and post it here. we will go through them and assist. i was helped like that so now i need to return the favor.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: Hazel on Mon, 07 April 2014, 13:12:45: I don't know what a .eep file is; I've only ever had to load .hex files.

Bypassing the USB jack and going straight to the Teensy should be OK (in fact you eliminate some potential points of failure).

If the Teensy flashes fine, then the problem must be in the hardware. Start by checking all the solder joints were the teensy card is soldered to the main board. Make sure each joint is solid and you don't have any pins shorted to their neighbor (you DO have a multimeter, right?). Check the five resistors as well.

If most keys work but some don't, then any non-working key is almost certainly because of the key's diode. Again, use you multimeter to diagnose which solder joint is bad and fix it.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: tbc on Tue, 08 April 2014, 02:42:23: thanks for the tips!

radioshack quality multimeters should be fine right?

where on earth does the teensy show up in device manager? I didn't notice it under any usb devices, HID, or keyboard. But yes, it definitely was beeping colors on first plugin. At that point, i uploaded my .hex from the massdrop configurator. ONce that di nothing, i got the .eep and .hex firmware files from the ergodox site. still no keys being inputted.

looks like I'll be picking up a camera this week lol.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: zeroni13 on Tue, 08 April 2014, 14:37:51: I would try this first.
http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/tutorial.html
If this works you know that you can program the teensy properly and you can remove that as a source for the problem. I would then test with a multimeter as earlier suggested.

And as for the multimeter it doesn't have to be fancy, just a regular one that measures continuity.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: tbc on Wed, 09 April 2014, 03:57:45: *sigh*

those resistors for the leds. are they needed if i'm not using leds?

also, they DO NOT have a specific orientation like the diodes right?
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: tricheboars on Wed, 09 April 2014, 14:58:46: Quote from: tbc on Wed, 09 April 2014, 03:57:45
*sigh*

those resistors for the leds. are they needed if i'm not using leds?

also, they DO NOT have a specific orientation like the diodes right?

the resistors do have a orientation that matters. i am assuming you are talking about:
(https://d3jqoivu6qpygv.cloudfront.net/img_bucket/ergodox/_W3T4003.jpg)

as you can see here there are little colored lines on the resistors. besides telling us what kind of resistors they are they are also used to figure out how to install them. make sure the lines are the same on your as the link i just posted.

when i made my dox i messed up and had one backwards. i noticed this immediately and fixed it but the devil really is in the details. since i had already snipped the little bastard it was kind of a pain in the ass.

seriously though dude rather than describe things you think could be wrong on your build post pictures.

post pictures.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: dorkvader on Wed, 09 April 2014, 18:55:43: Quote from: tricheboars on Wed, 09 April 2014, 14:58:46
Quote from: tbc on Wed, 09 April 2014, 03:57:45
*sigh*

those resistors for the leds. are they needed if i'm not using leds?

also, they DO NOT have a specific orientation like the diodes right?

the resistors do have a orientation that matters. i am assuming you are talking about:
Show Image
(https://d3jqoivu6qpygv.cloudfront.net/img_bucket/ergodox/_W3T4003.jpg)

as you can see here there are little colored lines on the resistors. besides telling us what kind of resistors they are they are also used to figure out how to install them. make sure the lines are the same on your as the link i just posted.

when i made my dox i messed up and had one backwards. i noticed this immediately and fixed it but the devil really is in the details. since i had already snipped the little bastard it was kind of a pain in the ass.

seriously though dude rather than describe things you think could be wrong on your build post pictures.

post pictures.

This is incorrect. Resistors can be installed in either direction. The three ones for the LEDs are optional if you are not using LEDs.

Though, I agree, post pictures.

In answer to your earlier question, A radioshack multimeter will suffice.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: tbc on Wed, 09 April 2014, 23:36:24: i'm actually having a hell of time finding a multimeter around. i would think a casual home hardware store would have one and i'll hit one up on the weekend (something like lowes).

I would take the pictures now, but my n4 refuses to focus anymore. Going to pick up a normal camera on the weekend as well.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 10 April 2014, 01:05:38: tbc: if you have trouble getting a camera, perhaps borrow one? I think even a recent cell phone camera should be sufficient to see many types of problems.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: tricheboars on Thu, 10 April 2014, 09:07:09: TIL: resistors do not have an orientation. huh.

anyway here is the multimeter i own. it is pretty good although i have only used it twice.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EVYGZA/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EVYGZA/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: tbc on Sun, 13 April 2014, 03:30:15: [attach=1]

can you guys see that or do I need to reshoot?
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: tricheboars on Mon, 14 April 2014, 01:00:49: reheat up the lot and add just a little bit of solder. heat the pins up where it looks like the solder is going down into the joint. then stop. dont add too much solder and dont hold the tip to the pins for too long. what size tip are you using? for something like this i would use my "Chisel - 0.8 mm" tip.

i had to do this very thing to get my ergodox to work after i finished it. one colum wasnt working. it was the colum 9ujm on my dox now. after i did this i was good to go. i can see a few joints that could use a little touch up. try that and let us know.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: tbc on Sat, 24 May 2014, 18:55:25: http://imgur.com/gallery/Rs90q

so where exactly do i put multimeter leads to test?

I tested my diodes and some of them don't work, but most of them do. I kinda want to get a single key working on the right hand side before making everything perfect.

I used the continuity test thing. the upside down 'u' symbol with some 'tails' on the ends. is that the right thing?
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: eviltobz on Sun, 25 May 2014, 17:38:42: i've not trawled through all the posts here, so apologies if i missed anything, but:

Quote from: tbc on Sun, 06 April 2014, 21:07:42
So I finished soldering my MD ergodox today.

but it's not working -_-
...

one important thing is that I never actually soldered the usb port or the exposed usb cables to the board. does this affect functionality or is it simply a convenience thing?

as i recall, there is some important grounding in the circuit that is achieved by soldering in the usb connector. if you're just plugging a cable directly into the teensy then the circuit is not complete. if you want to plug it in that way you'll need to solder an additional wire somewhere to make the missing connection, but for most of us, just following the original design is good enough :)
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: ic07 on Sun, 25 May 2014, 17:43:39: I only skimmed the thread too -- but it's very likely that your problem is due to bypassing the PCB USB connector and going straight to the Teensy. IIRC, bpiphany forgot to connect the Teensy Vcc to the board's Vcc when he redrew things. If you don't want the PCB mounted connector, you could always put a little jumper wire from the Teensy Vcc to the board's Vcc -- I had my prototype board wired this way for a while. If the PCB doesn't have power though, I don't think even the right hand side would work, since I believe the pull-up resistors need board power, and without pull-ups on the I2C lines, the firmware hangs.

Edit: Eviltobz beat me :) but didn't include quite as much information.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: tbc on Sun, 25 May 2014, 17:46:46: son of a mother....

thanks for the tip. won't have time to work on it till next week.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: dorkvader on Sun, 25 May 2014, 20:09:42: Quote from: ic07 on Sun, 25 May 2014, 17:43:39
but it's very likely that your problem is due to bypassing the PCB USB connector and going straight to the Teensy.
this is the problem. I recognized this very recently as the reason I was having so many problems with one of my builds. Neither hand would work, etc.

I'll also edit my post above.
Title: Re: Ergodox Assembly Issues
Post by: tbc on Wed, 28 May 2014, 21:35:04: okay. this worked!

thanks alot guys.

I also had an issue with the TRSS connector because I didn't realize we had to add the wire to short them out. the top side was already covered by the plate so I just did it on the bottom instead