geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: juguerre on Wed, 09 April 2014, 16:17:21
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Hi all!
I have been typing on a mx-brown keyboard for the last months and I'm happy but I have the impression that I just bottom out all the time and I don't like the feeling on the tips of my fingers. I tried the o-rings and helped but I'm thinking that maybe is a good idea to try something stiffer. By now I see two options: mx-blue or mx-clear
I don't really know if mx-blue switches are stiffer than brown's but may be can help with the bottom out. On the other hand, people say that mx-clears are an stiffer version of the mx-brown switches but these switches are pretty rare.
What do you think guys? Blues are going to help me? Or better I try mx-clears? (there is a pretty good deal at amazon.de: g80-3000LQCEU :rolleyes:)
Thanks!
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I vote for MX Clears. If you check my signature, I have some thoughts on browns and clears in my Cherry community tester writeup.
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It's easier to not bottom out on blues compared to browns because of the bigger bump and the click helps as well, but I'd definitely go for clears. Really easy to avoid bottoming out on clears, and IMO they are a superior version of browns.
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Thank you guys!
Any mx-clear keyboard recommendation? As I said there is a good deal for the cherry G80-3000 with clears but it's not the sexiest keyboard in the world, you know ... :p
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Yep, clear is the browner brown. That's whats up.
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Thank you guys!
Any mx-clear keyboard recommendation? As I said there is a good deal for the cherry G80-3000 with clears but it's not the sexiest keyboard in the world, you know ... :p
ISO or ANSI? Teraset.net has €99 Ducky G2pro ISO TKL with MX Clears (hope they aren't sold out as I type this...) €99 is a pretty good deal, since it's usually €139. Message ducky@teraset.net if you want to order internationally.
Also, these Leopold clones are decent I think: http://www.banggood.com/buy/mx-clear.html
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If I had to choose between the two, I would definitely go with clear switches
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Clears are just heavier browns like posted above, if the browns are too light than go clear, get your clear on!
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Not just heavier browns, clears have a much bigger tactile bump as well. :)
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Not just heavier browns, clears have a much bigger tactile bump as well. :)
you right you right, forgot about that bump.
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Thank you guys!
Any mx-clear keyboard recommendation? As I said there is a good deal for the cherry G80-3000 with clears but it's not the sexiest keyboard in the world, you know ... :p
ISO or ANSI? Teraset.net has €99 Ducky G2pro ISO TKL with MX Clears (hope they aren't sold out as I type this...) €99 is a pretty good deal, since it's usually €139. Message ducky@teraset.net if you want to order internationally.
Also, these Leopold clones are decent I think: http://www.banggood.com/buy/mx-clear.html
mmmm Ducky G2Pro looks great! I was looking for a TKL... I would prefer FI layout for example ... but is really a good deal.
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I have been typing on a mx-brown keyboard for the last months and I'm happy but I have the impression that I just bottom out all the time and I don't like the feeling on the tips of my fingers.
Do you mean that there’s some kind of numbness/pain/tingling in the tips of your fingers? If so, you may want to consider other changes to your posture or typing style.
What other preferences/constraints do you have? Have you ever tried an IBM Model M?
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Clears are just heavier browns like posted above, if the browns are too light than go clear, get your clear on!
Except they have a different stem (more tactility) and a different spring design (less initial force, but steeper curve then the stock spring in blacks). In other words, panda clear != stock clear; stock clear != ghost brown; ergo clear != stock brown.
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I used to bottom out as often as possible on my Filco brown but after a short time I start to type with less force. My fingers feel happier, they are less tired.
Bottoming out is ok anyway, but if you can type with less force and don't bottom out just half of the time, you are utilizing your mech keyboard to the fullest.
That is what the bump is for, like a finish line. You only have to pass through it a bit, then quickly go to the next key.
It's a win-win for both your fingers and your keyboard. Your fingers can dance on your keyboard instead of punching on it.
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I think the feeling on blue is much nicer than stock clear. unless you mod it
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Thank you guys!
Any mx-clear keyboard recommendation? As I said there is a good deal for the cherry G80-3000 with clears but it's not the sexiest keyboard in the world, you know ... :p
I recommend Blues, as stock Clears are quite heavy. Blues are better for typing usually because they're lighter and the click is usually easier to stop at than just a tactility point, but Clears are still excellent switches and you might be another convert. Keycool and Leopold boards both come stock with Clears; you can take a look here (http://banggood.com) and here (http://keyboardwow.com) for places to get them. Banggood does have long shipping times, but it's free.
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clears feel like ass to me, ergo clears work best for me. i have ergo clears on my "letters" and have browns on my num-row, i can feel the difference in tactiliness(sp?)
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if you want lould noises, go blue
if you want a silenter board, go with clears
if clears are too heavy for you, then mod them to ergo clears
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I have been typing on a mx-brown keyboard for the last months and I'm happy but I have the impression that I just bottom out all the time and I don't like the feeling on the tips of my fingers.
Do you mean that there’s some kind of numbness/pain/tingling in the tips of your fingers? If so, you may want to consider other changes to your posture or typing style.
What other preferences/constraints do you have? Have you ever tried an IBM Model M?
Tingling is the correct word, yes. Indeed I have an IBM Model M and I like it but I feel it a little bit tiring, too heavy. May be, as someone said I need to get used to the softness of mx-brown to avoid to bottom out.
If clears are as stiff as Model M switches may be clears are not the best option to me ... :(
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Have you seen rknize's spring measurements (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46449.0)? Stock clears are initially about as stiff/light as an ordinary rubber dome, but "landing" after actuation is softer, because there's still some potential travel left, only stiffer. It's kinda like MX Blue with EK's firm soft-landing pads, with a different sort of tactility though, of course.
BTW do you exercise? Have you considered finger-strength building exercises that rock climbers do?
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Have you seen rknize's spring measurements (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46449.0)? Stock clears are initially about as stiff/light as an ordinary rubber dome, but "landing" after actuation is softer, because there's still some potential travel left, only stiffer. It's kinda like MX Blue with EK's firm soft-landing pads, with a different sort of tactility though, of course.
BTW do you exercise? Have you considered finger-strength building exercises that rock climbers do?
Don't know if that's the right suggestion, asking people to train their fingers so they can use heavier switches. If softer springs suit him (as they do for me), let him get used to softer boards. They're best for typing, anyways.
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Do you mean that there’s some kind of numbness/pain/tingling in the tips of your fingers? If so, you may want to consider other changes to your posture or typing style.
Tingling is the correct word, yes.
Hm. Be careful out there. RSI is not something to take lightly.
The first thing I’d recommend is try to have a good posture while typing. If you can, keep your neck straight with your display straight in front of your head and your desk / keyboard tray low enough so that your elbows can stay at a 90° angle, with wrists floating in the air rather than resting on a table. Some experts recommend switching positions from time to time, or taking breaks to stretch or walk around. Several of my friends have found using a standing desk (either part of the time, or excessively) to make a big improvement. Just generally making sure to get enough exercise outside of work can also make a big difference.
With respect to the keyboard itself, try to keep your wrists in as straight and neutral a position as possible, and try to not use too much force when typing. If the Model M is tiring, certainly feel free to use something else. Personally I find that buckling spring switch or something similar (I particularly like Model F, clicky Alps, and clicky “monterey blue” SMK switches) helps me to avoid putting too much force into the bottom of the keystroke. But it’s certainly possible to type pain-free on all sorts of mechanical switches, even on a standard keyboard layout.
It’s possible that getting an “ergonomic” keyboard would be more comfortable, though this can be costly. Some of these have shapes that are radically different from the standard keyboard, such as the Kinesis Advantage, Truly Ergonomic, or Ergodox, but note that these usually take a week or two of training to get back to full speed. Others just have a split in the middle or some tenting or both, for instance the Cherry G80-5000, IBM M15 (both excellent but out of production and quite expensive used), or Matias’s upcoming Ergo Pro keyboard.
Even on a standard keyboard, other character layouts such as Dvorak or Colemak can reduce the amount of uncomfortable finger motion needed (though these also require substantial training).
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According to several sources¹, too soft keys on computer keyboards were one of the reasons, why RSI became much more common, when typewriters were replaced by PCs in offices during the 80's.
Also, exercising and proper posture are _the_ solution to most ergonomic issues.
¹ Unfortunately, I don't have access to anything but ISSN 1212-0901 (in Czech) right now. I seriously need to spend a week in school and get rid of the mess in my collection of papers... *sigh*