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geekhack Community => Ergonomics => Topic started by: oystein.krog on Tue, 06 May 2014, 12:12:03

Title: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: oystein.krog on Tue, 06 May 2014, 12:12:03

Hi,

Lately I've lost some sensation in the tip of the longest finger on my left hand.
I'm a little bit worried that this might be an early symptom of carpal tunnel.
I have consulted with a doctor, but I wonder if anyone has experienced the same?
What helped in your case?

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: tricheboars on Tue, 06 May 2014, 13:24:38

how are your toes and feet?  could be a simple circulation issue. either way that cant be good.

people with carpal tunnel certainly have reported similar sensations.  my suggestion is to get on this quick and hard before it graduates from a nuisance to a major problem. 

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: SonOfSonOfSpock on Tue, 06 May 2014, 15:12:07

Consulting a doctor is a good first step. Was your doctor able to help you and give you an idea of what's going on?

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: ionflux on Wed, 07 May 2014, 05:15:29

As far as I know, carpal tunnel numbs the ring finger and pinky, not the middle finger. This sure sounds strange. I once heard about a numbness in the fingers related to an illness where it's very important that you don't smoke, but I don't know anything more about it. But I think that related to  all of the fingers..

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 07 May 2014, 05:28:35

The little finger on my left hand went numb recently, but I traced that to me resting the heel of my palm against the edge of the desk.

I have stopped doing that, and the numbness has not returned.

But yes, monitor the situation closely, and please do consult a medical practitioner if it continues.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: ionflux on Wed, 07 May 2014, 05:37:29

if by resting your elbow on a surface (e.g. you 're lying on the couch, on your side, and you're resting your head on your hand, thus your elbow is on the couch) you get your two fingers numb, this is (the beginning of) carpal tunnel.
Of course you should consult a doctor, but there are things you can do: rest your hands more and do swimming, it helps immensely. There are also some hand rests that you put on during sleep and force a straight wrist  during sleep time, this also helps a lot, although it's a bit uncomfortable.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: RabRhee on Wed, 07 May 2014, 05:56:47

Lack of Vitamin B12 can also cause similar to this, although more likely all fingers. B12 boosts usually fix it. The B12 level is checked by a doctor with a blood test.

Numb fingers can also be a symptom of diabetes, but other symptoms of diabetes would normallly show before that. I know many people can be borderline diabetic and have some of the symptoms without being full blown diabetic.

Going to the Doc to do the tests is important, especially if it speads to your arm or shoulder. Good luck with it.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: oystein.krog on Wed, 07 May 2014, 13:47:13

Thanks for a all the replies.

The numbness has been persistent for a few days, I'm pretty sure it is not from bad circulation.
If I proceed with the doctor, I will most likely get a referral to a neurologist, which will take some time etc.
I want to try to fix the issue myself if possible, and as quickly as possible too:p
I am an otherwise healthy 29 year old male, I exercise etc, so I strongly suspect it is not due some other disease.

I've had pain in my fingers for a while now:/ but I've managed it by taking breaks, optimizing my posture, desk etc.
The pain has been worst in my right hand (due to using a mouse).
I am using an "ergonomic mouse" but I am considering moving to a touchpad instead.

I think maybe my numb fingertip is a result of moving the mouse to my left hand for the last 2 weeks....
I've since moved it back to my right hand, and I've started analyzing my hand+forearm posture when I do use the mouse.
I am slowly learning to do without a mouse completely, but it is still hard to without it 100%, this issue is certainly great motivation though:p

I've switched to the colemak layout with an ergodox.
I'm a developer so this basically means learning to use vim and hotkeys for _everything_, also using the command line a lot more.

Currently I have much less pain in my fingers, but I think I am still non-optimal in terms of finger stress, the combination of learning both a new physical layout and also a logical layout has added stress I think.
I tense my fingers more and I feel like my movements are a lot less "certain"
I'm still quite inefficient with the colemak+ergodox combination (~45wpm and ~85% accuracy), though I've only been using it for a little while.

For those who use a wrist guard at night: do you find it effective?

ionflux: the doctor I spoke to actually said that carpal tunnel symptoms are commonly observed in the middle finger first, but he was not an expert in these kinds of problems.

rowdy: Interesting, I basically hope to be able to do the same.

tricheboars: regarding attacking the problem hard: yes! I want to really work on this to prevent it from progressing.

I think I might take a picture of my desk+chair+posture at work tomorrow, perhaps you guys can spot if I am doing something wrong:P

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: eth0s on Wed, 07 May 2014, 13:55:47

You may have cervical radiculopathy, which is a pinched nerve in your neck.  The nerve goes from your brain to your hand, but is getting pinched in the neck.  This can cause fingers to go numb, or it can cause pain, or "pins and needles" feeling, or all three.

(http://www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/spine/spine_cervical/cervical_radiculopathy/cervical_radiculopathy_symptoms01.jpg)

(http://www.backpain-guide.com/Chapter_Fig_folders/Ch07_Symptoms_Folder/Ch7_Images/07-3_Cerv_radic.jpg)

Read about it here:  http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/pain-management-cervical-radiculopathy

Or you may have Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

You need to see a neurologist.  He can do a needle EMG/NCV study to diagnose your problem exactly.  You might also need an MRI of the cervical spine.  If you can't get to see a neurologist, you can try an orthopedist.  At worst try a pain management doctor.  But he will put you on painkillers, or muscle relaxers or both.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 07 May 2014, 13:59:14

see a doctor now before it gets worse. it can only get worse without a change in behavior.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 07 May 2014, 14:01:15

Quote from: eth0s on Wed, 07 May 2014, 13:55:47

You may have cervical radiculopathy, which is a pinched nerve in your neck.  The nerve goes from your brain to your hand, but is getting pinched in the neck.  This can cause fingers to go numb, or it can cause pain, or "pins and needles" feeling, or all three.

Show Image

(http://www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/spine/spine_cervical/cervical_radiculopathy/cervical_radiculopathy_symptoms01.jpg)

Show Image

(http://www.backpain-guide.com/Chapter_Fig_folders/Ch07_Symptoms_Folder/Ch7_Images/07-3_Cerv_radic.jpg)

Read about it here:  http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/pain-management-cervical-radiculopathy (http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/pain-management-cervical-radiculopathy)

Or you may have Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

You need to see a neurologist.  He can do a needle EMG/NCV study to diagnose your problem exactly.  You might also need an MRI of the cervical spine.  If you can't get to see a neurologist, you can try an orthopedist.  At worst try a pain management doctor.  But he will put you on painkillers, or muscle relaxers or both.

^^ I'm just getting over some nerve issues in my neck, working through it with physical therapy etc, I would have a few of the fingers on my left hand go completely numb with some other arm and neck issues as well, not a good feeling.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 07 May 2014, 14:25:58

yah, that nerve group runs all the way across your shoulders to both hands. that's why posture and core strength are so important.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: EvillePanda on Wed, 07 May 2014, 14:46:51

Quote from: ionflux on Wed, 07 May 2014, 05:15:29

As far as I know, carpal tunnel numbs the ring finger and pinky, not the middle finger. This sure sounds strange. I once heard about a numbness in the fingers related to an illness where it's very important that you don't smoke, but I don't know anything more about it. But I think that related to  all of the fingers..

Carpal tunnel affects index and middle.  Cubital tunnel affects the ring and pinky and is caused by a pinched nerve in your elbow.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: SonOfSonOfSpock on Wed, 07 May 2014, 16:35:50

What type of mouse do you use? I take it that you don't think it is very ergonomic since you put ergonomic mouse in quotes.

I use touchpads. They work for me, but I think other mice/trackballs are easier to use in a way that won't cause harm.

I use wrist guards at night. They mainly help in making my hands/wrists more comfortable. I guess also they prevent me from doing anything awkward with my hands.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: kurplop on Wed, 07 May 2014, 23:26:20

I have experienced a great deal of numbness in my hands and found a properly positioned trackball to be the best solution for me. I have tried a trackpad but the lack of tactile response made it difficult to use since I couldn't tell if I was even touching the pad.
Of course the ErgoDox also is a great help

I'm also a big fan of adjustable trays. They allow you to experiment with different heights and angles until you find the most comfortable. Even after you do, it's nice to alternate positions occasionally.

I had carpel tunnel release surgery last summer on one hand so now I can compare its effectiveness with my other hand being the control. Results- It seems I traded constant numbness and tingling in my fingers for constant mild pain at the carpel tunnel. Verdict- I'm in no hurry to have the other hand done.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: hoggy on Thu, 08 May 2014, 01:24:18

If you really can't get used to using the mouse with your left hand, take a look at dwell clicking software, or use autohotkey to remap caps lock as left click. I use workrave (rest break software) and looking through my stats I left click about 3000 times a day, you might be surprised how often that poor switch gets used.

Edit - sorry, on a second reading, it's your left hand that's the problem...

I'd say, stick to the right hand for now.

It's worth getting the best advice you can afford as early as you can.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: Lanx on Thu, 08 May 2014, 01:49:49

doctor asap

even a chiropractor to do some scans.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: HipsterPunks on Thu, 08 May 2014, 02:23:53

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/diseases/raynaud.html

I have this, not sure if you have the same symptoms but random fingers turn white and lose all feeling for about 15 minutes in temperature changes

I should also add that i work in a meat freezer for about 8 hours a day and i believe this to be the cause

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 09 May 2014, 02:40:12

Colemak on an ErgoDox is a good step in the right direction!

A picture of your chair / desk / desktop would help us figure out any issues.

Do you use any kind of wrist / palm rest?

A trackball is better than a mouse or trackpad in terms of ergonomics. In between the ErgoDox halves is a good spot for it.
<personal grudge> I'm surprised that there aren't any mice available with the "right" angle on them. Most "normal" mice are too flat, most "ergonomic" mice are too upright. </personal grudge>

Do you "tent" the ErgoDox (raise the inner edges)? This will help put the wrists in a more natural position (better pronation angle), along with angling the top edges in towards each other and the bottom edges away (splay angle). The angles should be adjusted according to your shoulder width and positions of the ErgoDox halves on your desk, so your hands rest naturally and comfortably with your fingers on the "home row".

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 09 May 2014, 09:32:57

Quote from: HipsterPunks on Thu, 08 May 2014, 02:23:53

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/diseases/raynaud.html

I have this, not sure if you have the same symptoms but random fingers turn white and lose all feeling for about 15 minutes in temperature changes

I should also add that i work in a meat freezer for about 8 hours a day and i believe this to be the cause

TIL don't mess with hipster he will cut you up in tiny pieces.

Best of luck to the OP, a few things I've noticed after going through something similar with nerve problems is I locked my office chair so no leaning back, I'm trying to sit straighter and now being done with physical therapy for my issues my finger numbness has pretty much gone away. The physical therapist did give me some exercises I could do at my desk, so perhaps you could look into that as well.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 12 May 2014, 13:27:45

Is it perhaps a bit cold where you work at your computer? Being out in the cold can often impact circulation and sensation in the finger-tips.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 12 May 2014, 16:43:48

The tip of my index finger has been numb since Saturday, but that is because I had abused it, pressing too hard against a needle file for too long when sculpting a shape in metal.

A few years ago I lost sensation in my leg because a nerve was pinched during surgery. I was told by the neurologist that nerves usually grow back, but it almost always takes three months, three weeks and three days. I thought it was a weird time estimate but it turned out to be true! :)

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: kittykatmax on Thu, 22 May 2014, 14:53:39

Thoracic Outlet Syndrome can also cause lack of sensation to the middle finger.  If the problem is exacerbated when you raise your arms, that's a good indicator.  A lot of people think they're getting carpal tunnel when it's actually thoracic outlet syndrome.

Good luck! 

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: Findecanor on Thu, 22 May 2014, 19:14:55

Quote from: eth0s on Wed, 07 May 2014, 13:55:47

... cervical radiculopathy ...

By the way. I was confused by the use of the term above.

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical):

Quote

In anatomy, cervical is an adjective that has two meanings:
* of or pertaining to any neck.
* of or pertaining to the female cervix: i.e., the neck of the uterus.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: zig_ziglar on Mon, 26 May 2014, 17:41:30

Treatment on the assumption of CTS has no negative effects, so why not? Start taking Brufen (or any other 400mg ibuprofen [anti-inflammatory] every 6 hours and perform these exercises frequently: http://www.eatonhand.com/hw/ctexercise.htm

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 26 May 2014, 17:45:54

Any updates, oystein.krog?

Did you see a doctor?  Are you recovering?

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: zig_ziglar on Mon, 26 May 2014, 17:59:47

Also, I'm pretty sure you can tell if it is cervical nerve impingement by tilting your neck towards your shoulder (while facing forwards) and elevating your opposite arm laterally. The tighter you pull your neck towards the opposing shoulder, the more likely you are to feel nerve resistance.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: tricheboars on Tue, 27 May 2014, 16:56:25

Quote from: rowdy on Mon, 26 May 2014, 17:45:54

Any updates, oystein.krog?

Did you see a doctor?  Are you recovering?

OP is dead. whatta bummer.

Title: Re: Loss of sensation in fingertips
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 27 May 2014, 17:20:04

Quote from: tricheboars on Tue, 27 May 2014, 16:56:25

Quote from: rowdy on Mon, 26 May 2014, 17:45:54

Any updates, oystein.krog?

Did you see a doctor?  Are you recovering?

OP is dead. whatta bummer.

:(