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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Defect on Thu, 08 May 2014, 18:56:48

Title: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Defect on Thu, 08 May 2014, 18:56:48
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Panda Clears > 62g Lubed and Ghost Blacks are the best gaming switch.

(https://i.imgur.com/JOwleRh.jpg)
Bring it on.


Edit to make post less trolly:
Swapping the 60 cherry spring in blacks with the 65/80 spring in clears is a better match imo.  These should be the default switches
Clear spring in clears makes them too mushy, but clear spring is black is great for gaming.  NEVER bottom out, feel like my fingers are always supported, and to actuate the switch takes little force.  Bottoming out requires a lot of force (80g).  Don't say anything until you've tried it.  I SWEAR BY IT.  Ghost blacks are god tier for gaming.

And clears with black spring are snappier than stock clears on the upstroke, and (opinion) are more joyful to type on.  Especially with super thick pbt and no lube on the bump (but lube on sliders)
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: keymaster on Thu, 08 May 2014, 19:11:53
Warning: Preferences and opinions ahead
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 08 May 2014, 19:30:10
This is a good thread. Good job OP :thumb:
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 08 May 2014, 19:36:09
#Thorpe
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 08 May 2014, 19:37:36
BS!
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Xowie on Thu, 08 May 2014, 19:38:11
10/10, would read again.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Blackehart on Thu, 08 May 2014, 19:38:24
scissor switch?
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: noisyturtle on Thu, 08 May 2014, 19:43:00
To be fair, Panda Clears are pretty much better than anything.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Zeal on Thu, 08 May 2014, 19:56:44
Incoming lubed, 62g #GOLD clears.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Defect on Thu, 08 May 2014, 20:29:46
Incoming lubed, 62g #GOLD clears.

About to desolder and replace with pandas.  /gg

What to do with 200 lubed 62g springs?
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Zeal on Thu, 08 May 2014, 20:30:25
Incoming lubed, 62g #GOLD clears.

About to desolder and replace with pandas.  /gg

What to do with 200 lubed 62g springs?

Record yourself burning it.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: CK Briefs on Thu, 08 May 2014, 20:34:03

Incoming lubed, 62g #GOLD clears.

About to desolder and replace with pandas.  /gg

What to do with 200 lubed 62g springs?

Record yourself burning it.

It's not about the #goldspringsburning, it's about sending a message.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Zeal on Thu, 08 May 2014, 20:40:50

Incoming lubed, 62g #GOLD clears.

About to desolder and replace with pandas.  /gg

What to do with 200 lubed 62g springs?

Record yourself burning it.

It's not about the #goldspringsburning, it's about sending a message.

Actually, do the kirkle test. Microwave all 200 switches for a couple minutes, and see if cherry mx switches are microwave proof.

If they survive, bring on the blow torch.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: daerid on Fri, 09 May 2014, 01:18:50
Stock all the way.

COME AT ME BRO
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 09 May 2014, 01:20:27
Stock all the way.

COME AT ME BRO

o**** son, that's rough.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Pacifist on Fri, 09 May 2014, 01:22:53
clears literature is so convoluted

first there's the classic 62g ergo clear (of which there is regular, limited, and #gold) then you got your stock clear enthusiasts, panda clears, and then there is 45g with thin lube. Also 65g, 67g, all kinds of people who prefer different weights for the same stem
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 09 May 2014, 01:28:49
clears literature is so convoluted

first there's the classic 62g ergo clear (of which there is regular, limited, and #gold) then you got your stock clear enthusiasts, panda clears, and then there is 45g with thin lube

Clears with 200g #GOLD springs, lubed. New super clear switch.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Melvang on Fri, 09 May 2014, 01:31:02
clears literature is so convoluted

first there's the classic 62g ergo clear (of which there is regular, limited, and #gold) then you got your stock clear enthusiasts, panda clears, and then there is 45g with thin lube

Rockin the thin lubed clears with springs from year and a half old browns.  Not one switch sticks.  Though the space bar is a stock clear spring with thin lube. 
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: feizor on Fri, 09 May 2014, 02:53:00
So if you just swap the springs on stock clears and stock blacks, you get two ideal switches?
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 09 May 2014, 02:56:45
So if you just swap the springs on stock clears and stock blacks, you get two ideal switches?

"Ideal" switch feel is subjective.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Defect on Fri, 09 May 2014, 05:24:36
So if you just swap the springs on stock clears and stock blacks, you get two ideal switches?

Yeah, I was 1. having fun 2. being serious.

Started swapping switches for a gaming board rotation (rather than my usual switch tests) and started to find that ghost blacks are AMAZING for gaming.  Also found that (without lube) panda clears are much snappier on the upstroke than stock clears.  They feel less mushy, too, and mushiness is often a big complaint with stock clears.

Clear spring with black stem does also have this mushiness, only it feels more like cushioniness (lol words).  Typing on ghost blacks is pretty weird, and pressing ghost blacks without a board plugged in feels bad.  But if you've ever gamed on it (I rotated hours of RTS and FPS), its absolutely amazing.  The strength of that heavy spring makes the key feel like it reacts faster.  On lighter switches I find that my fingers fatigue more than they do with these padded feeling ghost blacks.

But yes, it is all opinion.  What else is new, we all know that.  I'm sharing because I found through weeks of rotating that taking these two stock switches and swapping springs gives better spring/stem matches.  I wish these were the default setups rather than what they are now, and I encourage many people to try it out!
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: genkidama on Fri, 09 May 2014, 09:26:38
What are Panda Clears? Ghost Blacks? Gold Clears? :confused: :confused:
Who am I? Where am I? What am I?   :confused: :confused:

I feel like I've been away for like a decade and new forms of keys pop up on every corner of my fine geekhack universe.

I just want Ergo Clears  ^-^

Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 09 May 2014, 09:41:39
Stock all the way.

COME AT ME BRO

This guy know whats up. :thumb:
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Defect on Fri, 09 May 2014, 09:42:35
What are Panda Clears? Ghost Blacks? Gold Clears? :confused: :confused:
Who am I? Where am I? What am I?   :confused: :confused:

I feel like I've been away for like a decade and new forms of keys pop up on every corner of my fine geekhack universe.

I just want Ergo Clears  ^-^

Actually working on an info graphic for this.  Busy week at work though so we'll see when I can post.

Basically,  ergo usually means light spring, can mean cherry 45/50 or korean 62 or anything really.  Some would say Panda clears are a form of ergo
Panda is black spring
Ghost is clear spring
62g usually refers to korean.  Gold plate optional (really I don't think it affects anything.   Looks great for hobby build pictures though)
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 09 May 2014, 10:20:24
70g Clears and Ghost Blacks FTW!
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Sagii on Fri, 09 May 2014, 10:24:08
Screw you guys and your switches ! :c now I'd decided on brown cherry switches, after debating wether I'd get clears or browns for ages. Now I'm unsure again.  I hate you guys :(

Panda clears do sound nice though
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Folio on Fri, 09 May 2014, 10:27:06
200g springs under brown switches. Feels good man.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: bazh on Fri, 09 May 2014, 10:28:54
What are Panda Clears? Ghost Blacks? Gold Clears? :confused: :confused:
Who am I? Where am I? What am I?   :confused: :confused:

I feel like I've been away for like a decade and new forms of keys pop up on every corner of my fine geekhack universe.

I just want Ergo Clears  ^-^



Black spring + Clear/White stem = Panda
Clear spring + any stem = Ghost
#GOLD is for #SWAG
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Folio on Fri, 09 May 2014, 10:32:10
Black spring + Clear/White stem = Panda
Clear spring + any stem = Ghost
#GOLD is for #SWAG

But what about #DIAMOND?
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 09 May 2014, 10:50:15
Black spring + Clear/White stem = Panda
Clear spring + any stem = Ghost
#GOLD is for #SWAG

But what about #DIAMOND?

#PLATINUM 62g springs. Get on my level. :cool:
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Folio on Fri, 09 May 2014, 10:52:39
Black spring + Clear/White stem = Panda
Clear spring + any stem = Ghost
#GOLD is for #SWAG

But what about #DIAMOND?

#PLATINUM 62g springs. Get on my level. :cool:

On a more serious note, Is it really GOLD GOLD? Or is it just brass? I can't see gold holding up that well as a thin little spring being compressed up and down all the time.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 09 May 2014, 10:53:49
I think it's spring steel plated with gold.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 09 May 2014, 10:55:57
Black spring + Clear/White stem = Panda
Clear spring + any stem = Ghost
#GOLD is for #SWAG

But what about #DIAMOND?

#PLATINUM 62g springs. Get on my level. :cool:

On a more serious note, Is it really GOLD GOLD? Or is it just brass? I can't see gold holding up that well as a thin little spring being compressed up and down all the time.

No, if they were 999k gold, we'd spend more on springs than keyboards. :p (And it probably wouldn't even rebound.)

Not sure about the old "first generation" gold springs, but the recent GB sprit had were 18k gold plated springs. 
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: bazh on Fri, 09 May 2014, 10:59:11
Black spring + Clear/White stem = Panda
Clear spring + any stem = Ghost
#GOLD is for #SWAG

But what about #DIAMOND?

#PLATINUM 62g springs. Get on my level. :cool:

On a more serious note, Is it really GOLD GOLD? Or is it just brass? I can't see gold holding up that well as a thin little spring being compressed up and down all the time.

No, if they were 999k gold, we'd spend more on springs than keyboards. :p (And it probably wouldn't even rebound.)

Not sure about the old "first generation" gold springs, but the recent GB sprit had were 18k gold plated springs. 

plus if they were, they wouldn't be springs, gold are too soft

but, will #PLATINUM beat #TITAN?
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Folio on Fri, 09 May 2014, 11:00:12
I guess it really is just for DA SWAGGGGGGGGGGGG
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 09 May 2014, 11:05:12
No! It's to prevent corrosion when typing at 500WPM dropping all that salty sweat on the board...
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 09 May 2014, 11:09:19
If we're so into matching colours, why has no one hosted a GB for anodized springs...? Red springs for red cases, black springs for black cases, etc.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 09 May 2014, 11:10:43
Plating diff materials on the springs makes the springs feel a little different in my opinion. If you just make different colors, unless you have a clear top, there's no way you're going to see the springs.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Defect on Fri, 09 May 2014, 12:08:28
Thread derail successful
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: ferociousfingerings on Fri, 09 May 2014, 12:53:40
No! It's to prevent corrosion when typing at 500WPM dropping all that salty sweat on the board...

Or you could coat the entire thing with NeverWet (http://youtu.be/DZrjXSsfxMQ)...
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: handystack on Fri, 09 May 2014, 12:57:17
Quote
unless you have a clear top, there's no way you're going to see the springs.
:mad: I missed the clear switch case GB, and I have clear keycaps on gold plated 62g clears  :'( :'(
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 10 May 2014, 00:23:38
Why are Ghost Blacks still not mentioned in the Deskthority wiki?  They are, afterall, the best switch ever.  And no, I'm not biased in any way about that.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Melvang on Sat, 10 May 2014, 00:28:45
Why are Ghost Blacks still not mentioned in the Deskthority wiki?  They are, afterall, the best switch ever.  And no, I'm not biased in any way about that.

My guess would be due to the closeness of clear springs vs black springs.  I know they are different beasts with the clears having a much steeper compression rate.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 10 May 2014, 00:30:17
Why are Ghost Blacks still not mentioned in the Deskthority wiki?  They are, afterall, the best switch ever.  And no, I'm not biased in any way about that.

My guess would be due to the closeness of clear springs vs black springs.  I know they are different beasts with the clears having a much steeper compression rate.

Maybe, but they feel so dramatically different, in a good way.  There wouldn't be so many converts if that weren't the case.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Melvang on Sat, 10 May 2014, 00:40:50
Why are Ghost Blacks still not mentioned in the Deskthority wiki?  They are, afterall, the best switch ever.  And no, I'm not biased in any way about that.

My guess would be due to the closeness of clear springs vs black springs.  I know they are different beasts with the clears having a much steeper compression rate.

Maybe, but they feel so dramatically different, in a good way.  There wouldn't be so many converts if that weren't the case.

If I can find the springs I might just put them in the lubed blacks I have in my WYSE, when I get around to putting that together with the Enablers (not sure if vintage or modern with a build stamp of 96).
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Defect on Sat, 10 May 2014, 09:31:58
Why are Ghost Blacks still not mentioned in the Deskthority wiki?  They are, afterall, the best switch ever.  And no, I'm not biased in any way about that.

My guess would be due to the closeness of clear springs vs black springs.  I know they are different beasts with the clears having a much steeper compression rate.

Maybe, but they feel so dramatically different, in a good way.  There wouldn't be so many converts if that weren't the case.

If I can find the springs I might just put them in the lubed blacks I have in my WYSE, when I get around to putting that together with the Enablers (not sure if vintage or modern with a build stamp of 96).

After you do that, game on them for 3 hours (consecutive if you got that fever) and then tell me Blues are for gaming (hello Razer).  "For gamers.  By gamers 3 year olds"
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: epzy on Sat, 10 May 2014, 09:35:18
Every switch is equal for gaming. Come @ me.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Sagii on Sat, 10 May 2014, 09:58:18
I got no clue which one is better yet. Come at me.


Seriously though.. for the small amount of time I had reds I didn't like the linear feel when gaming.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Defect on Sat, 10 May 2014, 10:22:07
Every switch is equal for gaming. Come @ me.
All except click types (blue/green/white), which blow for gaming (just look at the engineering design..) but are an absolute JOY for typing.  Rest is personal preference which sparks endless discussion.

I got no clue which one is better yet. Come at me.
Seriously though.. for the small amount of time I had reds I didn't like the linear feel when gaming.
Once you've used all switches you learn to love them all and you'll find certain ones are better for certain tasks/times of day/current mood.

My 62g lubed blacks are still my primary for gaming and instead of swapping to ghost blacks I'm just gonna buy another 60 and put ghosts in that.  For slow pace/rts gaming at night.

62g in the morning, ghosts at night.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: epzy on Sat, 10 May 2014, 10:25:09
MX Blue for LoL all day.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Defect on Sat, 10 May 2014, 10:36:50
MX Blue for LoL all day.
Well in LoL you can get diamond with under 100 apm and double taps and hovering are not needed.  It gets hate for being so mechanically simple, but that's  the appeal of it and why its fun.

You can run in basketball shoes, but there are better options.

Let's talk about that in a different thread.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: epzy on Sat, 10 May 2014, 10:41:41
MX Blue 4 lyfe while playing SC2 @ GM.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: Melvang on Sat, 10 May 2014, 12:00:28
For gaming I actually prefer reds (yet to try blacks) for movement keys and tactile everywhere else.
Title: Re: Panda Clears and Ghost Blacks are better than Stock Clears and Stock Blacks
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 10 May 2014, 19:05:05
Every switch is equal for gaming. Come @ me.

I agree.

I've tried gaming on BS, Topre 45g, reds, blues, blacks and greens.

I have perhaps a slight preference for blacks.

Mostly FPS.  Occasional RPG.