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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: microsoft windows on Mon, 12 May 2014, 13:33:25

Title: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 12 May 2014, 13:33:25
So, how do you feel about the usage of traffic cameras in the enforcement of red light and speeding violations? Seems like it's been popping up quite a bit lately. Does your state/country/political division do photo enforcement of traffic violations?
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 12 May 2014, 21:29:21
Australia does.

Huge outcry when red light camera appeared, people claiming they increased the number of rear end accidents.

What is worse is that a lot of red light intersections ALSO have speed cameras - so you can't speed up to get across before the light goes red, and if you suddenly stop there is a risk the car behind will drive into you.

Fun to watch on a busy road sometimes - pretty flashing lights.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: bexleycorona on Mon, 12 May 2014, 22:06:04
We had them installed here 3 years ago. They made TONS of money but people protested that they caused more accidents because people got nervous around them.

Long story short most of them were deactivated.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: Binge on Mon, 12 May 2014, 22:49:19
It's TP's fault
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 12 May 2014, 23:49:12
I've not seen many people get caught by red light cameras, but if you are going a decent speed (ie, the speed limit or just over) you should have a point on the ground in front of the lights which is your "point of no return", where if you are past when the lights start changing, you go through, if they start changing after, you go through. You shouldn't need to change speed to get through the lights if you are doing the right speed.

This distance for the point of no return should be a distance you are comfortable stopping in, and not one where you have to slam on your brakes; probably where most of the people involved in rear end accidents get wrong. Also tailgating. **** everyone who tailgates.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: bueller on Mon, 12 May 2014, 23:52:29
When I was younger and less responsible I hated them, now that I've grown up I see them as a necessary evil. Speed cameras everywhere in Perth but people still drive like arseholes so I'd hate to think what it'd be like if we didn't have them.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 13 May 2014, 10:57:45
I consider myself lucky that red light cameras are illegal in my jurisdiction. But the state legislature did recently propose installing them in a few select cities. That plan was promptly shut down, however.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: digi on Tue, 13 May 2014, 10:59:40
(http://redlightcameraticket.net/wp-content/uploads/photoblocker-license-plate-spray-test-01.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: Krogenar on Tue, 13 May 2014, 11:09:14
The next development will be aerial drones that photograph jaywalkers. I think there's a problem when the surveillance of the population gets to this sort of level. I don't mean to be cynical, but this is not about public safety -- it's about the government shaking us all down for more money, more revenue. Think I'm joking about aerial drones? Give it some time. I wouldn't even mind it if they applied the law evenly -- but in NYC, they sure don't. If you have no money, and nothing to take, you can do what you want for the most part. But if you own a business (something to take!) then they're Judge Dredd.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Tue, 13 May 2014, 11:36:20
Or here's an idea... learn to drive.

Seriously, over half the people on the road today are idiots. They don't use turn signals, don't know how to merge, they think the passing lane is just a faster travel lane, and they're CONSTANTLY ON THEIR CELL PHONES!

The only person in the world whose driving I truly trust is my own.

Moral of they story: learn to drive before worrying about red lights and speed cameras.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: bexleycorona on Wed, 21 May 2014, 01:12:45
Show Image
(http://redlightcameraticket.net/wp-content/uploads/photoblocker-license-plate-spray-test-01.jpg)


Stupid question...

Is this a real product? I'll be going on a road trip soon and I don't know if there are cameras on the roads.

Or here's an idea... learn to drive.

Seriously, over half the people on the road today are idiots. They don't use turn signals, don't know how to merge, they think the passing lane is just a faster travel lane, and they're CONSTANTLY ON THEIR CELL PHONES!

The only person in the world whose driving I truly trust is my own.

Moral of they story: learn to drive before worrying about red lights and speed cameras.

EVERYONE on the road believes they are the best driver ever.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 21 May 2014, 01:28:03
Don't know about a spray, but in Australia bubble licence plate covers were popular for a while.

Until they were made illegal.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: sth on Wed, 21 May 2014, 01:45:03
Yeah the spray is real, it's just a transparent highly reflective coating.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 21 May 2014, 03:49:05
Or here's an idea... learn to drive.

Seriously, over half the people on the road today are idiots. They don't use turn signals, don't know how to merge, they think the passing lane is just a faster travel lane, and they're CONSTANTLY ON THEIR CELL PHONES!

The only person in the world whose driving I truly trust is my own.

Moral of they story: learn to drive before worrying about red lights and speed cameras.

This 1000%

The thing that annoys me more than anything is that people who are older than I am (like 10-20yrs older) took there driving test when there where no speed limits, seat belts etc etc.... they didn't have to sit anything like the test I had to sit (which is only ever being made harder) yet these people have just as much right to drive as me. It's insane. People over a certain age should have there license invalidated and be forced to take there test again.

So many accidents caused by elderly drivers.




In the UK it's like 1984 with people watching you, but it's not all bad. Red tape and incompetence stop the government from really watching and tracking your every move, and having speed cameras in locations that cause many deaths (as UK roads unlike American roads have corners and bends) is a good thing. Though average speed camera's on the motoway's are a piss take and only ever make driving on that section of motorway a living hell.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 21 May 2014, 04:04:09
I don't see any problems at all
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: iri on Wed, 21 May 2014, 06:27:18
some time ago, dedicated bus lanes started being used in moscow.
using the bus lane unless for turning right for cars drivers at 9-19 meant the fine of $88.
every such lane had a lot of cameras. those were installed some distance away from crossroads so the car drivers could use the lanes to turn right without being afraid to be noticed by a camera.
the installation of the cameras was widely publicized.
at the first day of use, the devices printing violators' photos ran out of photo paper.
and even when a year passed, thousands of people seemed to not care about the cameras and the fines.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: C5Allroad on Wed, 21 May 2014, 06:37:37
Here in Miami, we have them at most intersections. You can turn right on red, but you have to come to a complete stop... As rowdy mentioned, possible rear end asking to happen.... Especially when people are eating or taking selfies... My mom has gotten a ticket from one. Pretty amazing how nice of a picture it was lol. They take a large picture and print it, then zoom in on your plate lol.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: vun on Wed, 21 May 2014, 06:40:45
I don't have much of a problem with speed cameras, and if we had red light cameras I wouldn't mind that much either. Don't break the speed limit and don't run red lights, it's not hard.

However, it does move towards the same argument used to justify surveillance; it's not a problem as long as you don't have anything to hide/guilty until proven innocent. So I don't really like the average speed camera system that monitors your speed across a stretch of road, and I'm not too fond of normal speed cameras either tbh, but the implementation of them where I live is one I'm ok with.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 21 May 2014, 07:23:30
I don't have much of a problem with speed cameras, and if we had red light cameras I wouldn't mind that much either. Don't break the speed limit and don't run red lights, it's not hard.

However, it does move towards the same argument used to justify surveillance; it's not a problem as long as you don't have anything to hide/guilty until proven innocent. So I don't really like the average speed camera system that monitors your speed across a stretch of road, and I'm not too fond of normal speed cameras either tbh, but the implementation of them where I live is one I'm ok with.
how often do you even drive
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 21 May 2014, 07:26:23
Yeah I don't get red light camera's being a problem and I've driven for many years. Though the UK has Amber lights between green and red which I know some places don't...
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 21 May 2014, 07:28:24
the UK has Amber lights between green and red

In America they're yellow lights, and if you see it, it means one of two things: floor it, or slam on the brakes.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 21 May 2014, 07:32:01
the UK has Amber lights between green and red

In America they're yellow lights, and if you see it, it means one of two things: floor it, or slam on the brakes.

Amber lights in the UK mean that green is changing to red or red is changing to green. You have to go out of your way to run a red really..
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 21 May 2014, 07:34:10
the UK has Amber lights between green and red

In America they're yellow lights, and if you see it, it means one of two things: floor it, or slam on the brakes.

Green = GO

Yellow = GO FASTER!

Red = GO REALLY FAST WITH YOUR EYES CLOSED!
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 21 May 2014, 07:36:02
the UK has Amber lights between green and red

In America they're yellow lights, and if you see it, it means one of two things: floor it, or slam on the brakes.

Green = GO

Yellow = GO FASTER!

Red = GO REALLY FAST WITH YOUR EYES CLOSED WHILE SCREAMING AAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

FTFY :thumb:
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 21 May 2014, 08:02:26
the UK has Amber lights between green and red

In America they're yellow lights, and if you see it, it means one of two things: floor it, or slam on the brakes.

Green = GO

Yellow = GO FASTER!

Red = GO REALLY FAST WITH YOUR EYES CLOSED WHILE SCREAMING AAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

FTFY :thumb:

And if you have a BMW

Anything at all = Ignore it
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: C5Allroad on Wed, 21 May 2014, 09:59:53
the UK has Amber lights between green and red

In America they're yellow lights, and if you see it, it means one of two things: floor it, or slam on the brakes.

Green = GO

Yellow = GO FASTER!

Red = GO REALLY FAST WITH YOUR EYES CLOSED WHILE SCREAMING AAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

FTFY :thumb:

And if you have a BMW

Anything at all = Ignore it
Well I downshift to about 3k when turbos spool, and then go and make a happy face.

Here in Florida people stop on green lights.....
I had this girl stop on an intersection when green and start texting.....
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 21 May 2014, 12:45:13
Most of the digital cameras deployed in these traffic cams can not deal with IR as it overwhelms the sensor and creates a hot spot over the plate characters that won't be readable. For example you can get one of those led plate frames and swap them out for ultrabright IR leds. This technique also works to beat face recognition/tracking over cctvs if you install them under a hat brim pointed down over your face, around a glasses frame or etc.. The nice thing about IR is that it is not noticeable to the eye, and shouldn't appear suspicious so a human police won't notice it.
While traffic laws are supposedly to help ensure safety... and some are effective in that regard, most of them really are only there to create revenue through fines. The traffic cams certainly fall into the increase revenue category. Much like how police come out en masse to create radar speed traps everywhere on certain days of the year each quarter... while every time they insist they do not have quotas to meet.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 21 May 2014, 12:46:02
the UK has Amber lights between green and red

In America they're yellow lights, and if you see it, it means one of two things: floor it, or slam on the brakes.

Green = GO

Yellow = GO FASTER!

Red = GO REALLY FAST WITH YOUR EYES CLOSED WHILE SCREAMING AAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

FTFY :thumb:

And if you have a BMW

Anything at all = Ignore it
Well I downshift to about 3k when turbos spool, and then go and make a happy face.

Here in Florida people stop on green lights.....
I had this girl stop on an intersection when green and start texting.....

MURICA
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 21 May 2014, 12:47:11
This technique also works to beat face recognition/tracking over cctvs if you install them under a hat brim pointed down over your face, around a glasses frame or etc.. The nice thing about IR is that it is not noticeable to the eye, and shouldn't appear suspicious so a human police won't notice it.

TIL Ivan is a international super spy! ;)
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 21 May 2014, 12:48:15
I can neither confirm nor deny.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 21 May 2014, 13:32:50
You can see speed cameras coming a mile away in the UK, I think they were politically pressured to make them yellow and visible to justify their claims about them being a deterrent, despite the protests from sadcase safety groups wanting them to be hidden to catch more people. As a result they're basically a joke.

On a typical motorway in the UK you'll have the furthest left lane with heavy goods vehicles that generally have limiters on them, and people towing caravans etc. doing around 70mph (the legal limit), then in the middle lane you'll have old folks, people with crap cars, etc. doing around 80-90mph (the de-facto limit, only the most anal of traffic police cares about that kind of speed), and then in the right lane you'll have normal people doing 90mph+ Then all of a sudden the entire mass of traffic will start slowing down at once due to the presence of a speed camera, right down to about 70-77mph for a couple of seconds before everyone just as suddenly starts speeding back up. It's utterly pointless, and more dangerous than not having them.

What's getting more common and more annoying are stretches of road with average speed cameras, that record the registrations of all the vehicles entering and then leaving the section, so essentially you have no choice but to drive at the speed limit, otherwise you'll pass the second camera too early to have not been breaking the speed limit. Thankfully they're only really used in places where roadworks are taking place.

I have zero experience with red light cameras, I'm not even sure we have them as I've jumped a lot of red lights and nothing has ever happened. So I can't really judge how they would work in practice.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 21 May 2014, 19:49:38
You can see speed cameras coming a mile away in the UK, I think they were politically pressured to make them yellow and visible to justify their claims about them being a deterrent, despite the protests from sadcase safety groups wanting them to be hidden to catch more people. As a result they're basically a joke.

On a typical motorway in the UK you'll have the furthest left lane with heavy goods vehicles that generally have limiters on them, and people towing caravans etc. doing around 70mph (the legal limit), then in the middle lane you'll have old folks, people with crap cars, etc. doing around 80-90mph (the de-facto limit, only the most anal of traffic police cares about that kind of speed), and then in the right lane you'll have normal people doing 90mph+ Then all of a sudden the entire mass of traffic will start slowing down at once due to the presence of a speed camera, right down to about 70-77mph for a couple of seconds before everyone just as suddenly starts speeding back up. It's utterly pointless, and more dangerous than not having them.

What's getting more common and more annoying are stretches of road with average speed cameras, that record the registrations of all the vehicles entering and then leaving the section, so essentially you have no choice but to drive at the speed limit, otherwise you'll pass the second camera too early to have not been breaking the speed limit. Thankfully they're only really used in places where roadworks are taking place.

I have zero experience with red light cameras, I'm not even sure we have them as I've jumped a lot of red lights and nothing has ever happened. So I can't really judge how they would work in practice.

Do people still hang a tyre over them, pour petrol in it and set it on fire?

There was a web site full of pictures of these.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: mauri on Thu, 22 May 2014, 03:33:37
mfw most speeding cameras don't even register motorcycles
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: Novus on Thu, 22 May 2014, 03:34:55
Say No to a police state so they can come pay you a nice visit.
Title: Re: Red Light & Speeding Cameras
Post by: Bullveyr on Thu, 22 May 2014, 08:56:50
... while every time they insist they do not have quotas to meet.
A few months ago a cop in Vienna was suspended because he made such a quota public (a quota is probably illegal).

Tu felix Austria and your corrupt politicians.