geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: FinancialWar on Thu, 15 May 2014, 20:12:34
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question in title
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question in title
Not sure. go for it. I would adjust those thumb, clusters into a more comfortable position, though.
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Yeah, maybe ask the community who have used them extensively what tweaks they would like making to make them even more ergonomical. Then, unless they are patented, I reckon you could do it.
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Maybe ask Dox, and the other creators, if they don't mind, and offer royalties.
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It's open source.
License
Design - Hardware
The ErgoDox is an open design based on the original design of the Key64@ by Nestor A. Diaz. The design and hardware files are released under the GNU General Public License v3.
ErgoDox is Copyright © 2012 Dominic Beauchamp & Contributors
Key64@ is Copyright © 2011-today Nestor A. Diaz, the Key64 researchers (see the project's People page), and other contributors.
This design is free; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 3 of the License, or any later version.
The ErgoDox is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details.
The copyright covers the keyboard device, the neologism "ErgoDox" in upper, lower, or any mix of cases in any typeface. The "ErgoDox" are also covered by the GPL. Anyone can use them freely in any way they choose, but they may not be registered as trademarks or restricted in any other way.
You can read a copy of the GNU General Public License at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.html; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA , or see http://www.gnu.org.
http://ergodox.org/License.aspx
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They made it open source so that the community could be free to use it. I don't imagine they thought someone might try to profit off of it.
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open source is suppose to be free or cheap at least. Ergodox cost an arm and a leg and lots of time, because there is no economy of scale, I hope someone will commercialise this board and make it affordable for everyone and make some money in the process, if it's not patented, I'll made some minor changes and apply for one.
The current open source model of ergodox does not work.
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open source is suppose to be free or cheap at least. Ergodox cost an arm and a leg and lots of time, because there is no economy of scale, I hope someone will commercialise this board and make it affordable for everyone and make some money in the process, if it's not patented, I'll made some minor changes and apply for one.
The current open source model of ergodox does not work.
GL. It's covered by GPL 3.0.
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You asked the same question you asked in the OP in your last ergodox thread.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55030.msg1234002#msg1234002
If you would just dish out the extra $100, you could've already been using the ErgoDox for months now. You don't have to be stingy when keyboards have high resale value and it's something you use all the time. Having a company like Filco produce ErgoDox keyboards is wishful thinking, and it's not going to happen any time soon. If you're actually interested in trying an ErgoDox, just buy one now instead of waiting indefinitely for your dream backlit ErgoDox with palm rests for $150, which, even if the keyboard was mass produced I doubt could happen considering that generic Filcos are already $150.
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Which means you can sell it as long as you distribute with it the current license terms and information saying the IP itself is free. Given with a huge production they will be cheaper than what anyone could just do following the designs, then it doesn't matter.
You can't stop someone else from trying to mass produce them in kind however.
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Mass production implementation makes sense only in a high demand scenario that I think the ergodox, and most of the mechanicals by the way, are not in.
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you never know. That's that's why people said about mechanical keyboard before you came mainstream. You never know what will happen.
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With something like the ergo dox I would rather source all the parts pieces myself and build it myself. For one reason alone. Then I know exactly what went into it and how it went together. Plus, it is much easier to tailor the particular keyboard to your personal tastes.
Such as, there are a lot of people that use the dox because of its unique combination of, ergonomics, portability, customization, along with overall weight when built with aluminum or acrylic. But me personally, I would build it one with brushed 304 stainless. Why, because that was the grade that was used on the DMC Delorean and that car body was 100% uncoated stainless, and I just love the look of raw mill finish or brushed stainless.
Granted it would cost more to acquire all the parts pieces to build it, but that is part of the fun in the journey of a custom mechanical keyboard. Plus, even with backing from a major manufacturer I seriously doubt the price would be anything less than $200 for a very long time due to very extensive tooling costs. I install and maintain that sort of equipment on a daily basis and if you are proposing the idea to have this mass produced than I seriously doubt you have any idea how much just tooling for that equipment costs, let alone to buy new equipment, install, setup, and maintain said equipment.
Second, good luck convincing any major brand to produce anything that was originally intended as open source with the intent of making a profit from it.
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With something like the ergo dox I would rather source all the parts pieces myself and build it myself. For one reason alone. Then I know exactly what went into it and how it went together. Plus, it is much easier to tailor the particular keyboard to your personal tastes.
Such as, there are a lot of people that use the dox because of its unique combination of, ergonomics, portability, customization, along with overall weight when built with aluminum or acrylic. But me personally, I would build it one with brushed 304 stainless. Why, because that was the grade that was used on the DMC Delorean and that car body was 100% uncoated stainless, and I just love the look of raw mill finish or brushed stainless.
Granted it would cost more to acquire all the parts pieces to build it, but that is part of the fun in the journey of a custom mechanical keyboard. Plus, even with backing from a major manufacturer I seriously doubt the price would be anything less than $200 for a very long time due to very extensive tooling costs. I install and maintain that sort of equipment on a daily basis and if you are proposing the idea to have this mass produced than I seriously doubt you have any idea how much just tooling for that equipment costs, let alone to buy new equipment, install, setup, and maintain said equipment.
Second, good luck convincing any major brand to produce anything that was originally intended as open source with the intent of making a profit from it.
This x 100. I'm building an ErgoDox right now because its a fun project and I can customize it as I see fit. Half the appeal for me is the challenge of building it and sourcing all the parts. I like knowing exactly what's gone into the final product. If an ErgoDox was something that could be purchased in the same way as a Filco/Ducky (ie. plug and play) I probably wouldn't have ever put much thought into them.
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The Ergodox being open source still leaves the possibility that somebody has a patent that covers something in the keyboard. It would likely not be Dox or the creators, but some other person/company.
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Oh, we have a troll here. Patent troll.
czarek has mentioned he wants to start a business around his ED assembly service. Axios is hopefully coming soon as well. That sounds like a tough competition.
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Obligatory IANAL, but I am a software dev. The OP should know a couple things about the GPL and specifically version 3+.
The GPL v3 is viral. This means you can use it, you can modify it, you can produce it, and you can sell it. All completely fine. However, you MUST release all of your modified designs with every board you produce, and your modified designs are ALSO licensed under these terms. The point is that modification and use without releasing your new secret sauce to the community is completely illegal and in breach of the license. Some companies fear to use GPL things for this reason; all of their tweaks become immediately public (and the GPL can also virally affect other linked libraries). There are no trade secrets if you use the GPL.
Stallman wants the entire world to be open source, and this viral behavior is deliberate. I'm not going to comment on that right here, instead just state the GPL has been tested in court, and it holds.
So - go right ahead, modifications/improvements and all! Just make absolutely sure from the outset that you are fine with these restrictions, and will release the modifications to the public.
(Note that you only have to release the modifications if you sell or otherwise distribute the new boards; anyone can mod the files for their own personal use without running afoul of these clauses. However, that did not seem to be the OP's intent.)
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With something like the ergo dox I would rather source all the parts pieces myself and build it myself. For one reason alone. Then I know exactly what went into it and how it went together. Plus, it is much easier to tailor the particular keyboard to your personal tastes.
Such as, there are a lot of people that use the dox because of its unique combination of, ergonomics, portability, customization, along with overall weight when built with aluminum or acrylic. But me personally, I would build it one with brushed 304 stainless. Why, because that was the grade that was used on the DMC Delorean and that car body was 100% uncoated stainless, and I just love the look of raw mill finish or brushed stainless.
Granted it would cost more to acquire all the parts pieces to build it, but that is part of the fun in the journey of a custom mechanical keyboard. Plus, even with backing from a major manufacturer I seriously doubt the price would be anything less than $200 for a very long time due to very extensive tooling costs. I install and maintain that sort of equipment on a daily basis and if you are proposing the idea to have this mass produced than I seriously doubt you have any idea how much just tooling for that equipment costs, let alone to buy new equipment, install, setup, and maintain said equipment.
Second, good luck convincing any major brand to produce anything that was originally intended as open source with the intent of making a profit from it.
With something like the ergo dox I would rather source all the parts pieces myself and build it myself. For one reason alone. Then I know exactly what went into it and how it went together. Plus, it is much easier to tailor the particular keyboard to your personal tastes.
Such as, there are a lot of people that use the dox because of its unique combination of, ergonomics, portability, customization, along with overall weight when built with aluminum or acrylic. But me personally, I would build it one with brushed 304 stainless. Why, because that was the grade that was used on the DMC Delorean and that car body was 100% uncoated stainless, and I just love the look of raw mill finish or brushed stainless.
Granted it would cost more to acquire all the parts pieces to build it, but that is part of the fun in the journey of a custom mechanical keyboard. Plus, even with backing from a major manufacturer I seriously doubt the price would be anything less than $200 for a very long time due to very extensive tooling costs. I install and maintain that sort of equipment on a daily basis and if you are proposing the idea to have this mass produced than I seriously doubt you have any idea how much just tooling for that equipment costs, let alone to buy new equipment, install, setup, and maintain said equipment.
Second, good luck convincing any major brand to produce anything that was originally intended as open source with the intent of making a profit from it.
This x 100. I'm building an ErgoDox right now because its a fun project and I can customize it as I see fit. Half the appeal for me is the challenge of building it and sourcing all the parts. I like knowing exactly what's gone into the final product. If an ErgoDox was something that could be purchased in the same way as a Filco/Ducky (ie. plug and play) I probably wouldn't have ever put much thought into them.
Correct me if I'm wrong but does that mean you guys won't buy off the sale that massdrop is having now with the ergodox?
Like you guys would rather source for all the switches, plates, pcbs yourself from perhaps separate vendors and in orders?
Cause the massdrop ergodox seems to offer a really good kit that you just get, assemble it yourself and start using. And since you've assembled it yourself you pretty much know what went into your ergodox too
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With me at least I would just buy the PCBs off massdrop. The rest of the case I would source/build myself.
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The current open source model of ergodox does not work.
Maybe in your opinion. I think for the 'market' it serves, it is very adequate as a mostly DIY project.
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patents are inherently incompatible with GPL v3 sourced materials.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but does that mean you guys won't buy off the sale that massdrop is having now with the ergodox?
Like you guys would rather source for all the switches, plates, pcbs yourself from perhaps separate vendors and in orders?
Cause the massdrop ergodox seems to offer a really good kit that you just get, assemble it yourself and start using. And since you've assembled it yourself you pretty much know what went into your ergodox too
I'm actually using the MassDrop PCBs for my build but thats the extent of it. Switches/diodes/cases/etc are all items that either have been or will be sourced separately. Personally I don't really like the all clear acrylic cases that MassDrop uses in their kit, I'm in the process of finding someone local that can cut acrylic in a color/design that I like better (eg. matte black and matte red).
Not to say theres anything at all wrong with the MassDrop kit. Quite the contrary actually, I think its a great kit at a great price. I would love to see more kits just like it (Phantom and others) because it makes fabricating your own board and learning about things like soldering and firmware customization/development much more accessible to the general public.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but does that mean you guys won't buy off the sale that massdrop is having now with the ergodox?
Like you guys would rather source for all the switches, plates, pcbs yourself from perhaps separate vendors and in orders?
Cause the massdrop ergodox seems to offer a really good kit that you just get, assemble it yourself and start using. And since you've assembled it yourself you pretty much know what went into your ergodox too
Maybe it's better for US residents, but my experience with Massdrop has been far from great and I definitely won't get my next ergo keyboard from them. (I'm glad they started it in 2012/2013 though.)
Nowadays, MechanicalKeyboards.com and czarek carry most parts and I suppose either is much faster than Massdrop's 8+ weeks. I prefer czarek's case too (and if someone has access to a laser cutter or 3D printer or something, it might be even cheaper to make an own case).
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ya....i'm not sure if anyone from europe should be shopping at massdrop. import prices are insane.
the value of massdrop is the cases they offer; if you're not interested, it's worth it sourcing it yourself.
personally...i kinda like having gbs that have a company providing support (ala SP).
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Acrylic (and AFAIK even the aluminium) cases were pretty bad in the first batches. I hear they have improved that. If it's true, maybe...