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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: studybreak on Thu, 29 May 2014, 11:55:30
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My wife wants a big, heavy, clicky keyboard. The bigger, heavier, and noisier the better. The 122 key Model F fits the bill, but it's much harder to find and much more expensive than the smaller and lighter but still big and heavy 122 key Model M. I want to get her something nice and unusual for her birthday, so I don't mind spending a little more, but she's not a keyboard hobbyist and I'm having trouble determining whether the price difference---over $170 for the F and under $40 for the M---matches a difference in quality she's likely to care about.
I know she'd be happy with a 101 key Model M, so I'm using that as my point of comparison. Here are my considerations:
- Compatibility: Both need a Teensy controller (or equivalent), so neither has an advantage over the 101 key M.
- Size and weight: The F wins here, but I'm not sure by how much. It's about 8 pounds, and the 101 about 6. The 122 M is somewhere in between, but I get the impression that it's not much heavier than the 101 M. Is that right?
- Build quality: I'm at sea. Some folks seem to prefer the Model F to the Model M and others the Model M to the Model F. That's fine, but what really confuses me is that the 122 key Model M does not seem to be held in very high regard compared to the 101 key M. (I saw a few posts that said the 122 key M's worth is largely as a source of spare keycaps, and that they were inferior to the 101 key Model Ms.) The only difference I can see is that one has more keys and needs a Teensy controller, but I get the sense that I'm missing something.
- Keys: She's not likely to care about the difference between capacitative and membrane buckling springs. I'd say this is a tie, but Is there a difference between the 122 key M and the 101 key M here?
Shorter version: Is there something in particular about the 122 key Model M that makes it that much less desirable than the 122 key Model F when compared to the 101 key Model M? Alternatively: Is there a different keyboard she might like?
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Get her a nice, old (pre-1989) Model M in the standard layout.
That is "The One True Keyboard" according to leagues of users for several decades now.
It runs straight-out-of-the-box-PS/2 with no drama or work required.
Model Fs are exquisite to use but take major expenditure of effort, and are always non-standard.
Forget the M-122.
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Get her a nice, old (pre-1989) Model M in the standard layout.
That is "The One True Keyboard" according to leagues of users for several decades now.
It runs straight-out-of-the-box-PS/2 with no drama or work required.
Model Fs are exquisite to use but take major expenditure of effort, and are always non-standard.
Forget the M-122.
What he said -- a silver label Model M is what you want, with or without the LED indicators.
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I'd disagree. I had an M and an F AT. The F AT was fantastic to use once you got used to the layout. The Model M, while not bad, always felt like a cheap, inferior product compared to the F.
I guess, in a way, it's similar to the Topre v rubber dome argument. Some people see a huge difference, some don't, and some see a small difference that's not worth the premium or other flaws. To me, it's well worth it to get the F.
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The Model M, while not bad, always felt like a cheap, inferior product compared to the F.
To me, it's well worth it to get the F.
I agree 100% with both of these statements.
Follow my original advice unless you plan to spend many hours at the workbench on the front end.
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Perfect option is available too : http://www.ebay.com/itm/321391186481
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To be honest, having used and M and an F, I can never go back to an M. The Model F has a chasm of build quality and typing feel separating it from the Model M.
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Perfect option is available too : http://www.ebay.com/itm/321391186481
That's Dante, isn't it?
I would prefer one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Model-M-Keyboard-Part-Number-1391401-With-USB-Adapter-/181419146774?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2a3d6c7e16
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-PS-2-Model-M-P-N-1391401-ID-1632881-Clicky-Vintage-White-Keyboard-/141300542525?pt=US_Vintage_Computing_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20e62b2c3d
or slightly lower down, one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Model-M-1391401-Vintage-PS2-Keyboard-Good-Condition-/121316552719?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item1c3f07b00f
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gray-Emblem-IBM-Clicky-Keyboard-Model-M-Detachable-PS-2-Cord-/191176338750?pt=US_Vintage_Computing_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c82ff6d3e
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F's are more solid in my opinion and you should be able to get one for around $100 to $110 shipped on ebay if you keep checking for them regularly. They will only increase in value as time goes on, especially since there are far fewer of them compared to model M's, so it is really more of an investment that you can also get use out of.
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This is kind of a necro bump, and I'm sure OP has already decided, but I agree with the advice to get a nice classic 101 key Model M. The model F is superior, but unless you're willing to spend considerable time and effort on modding, it's probably not worth it.
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I am in love with my F122. The layout is perfect (except that I would prefer having no keypad) with no modification required.
The only thing you need with a F122 is to make a Soarer converter and while not that easy the first time you do it, it's not that hard to do if you take the time to follow the instructions and ask for help.
Also, since the F122 has an AT connexion, you can probably use some kind of active converter to make it work if you don't want to build a Soarer converter. But the Soarer will let you remap all the key to you're liking and that's a BIG plus if you want to use this keyboard. Sometimes remapping 1-2 keys can make a HUGE difference.
As for the price, your biggest problem will be the time since it's possible to find one under 100$ shipped if you are patient and somewhat lucky. But since it's for her birthday, it could be harder.
And if you set your mind on the model F, the AT model F layout is nice also, but it does not have the more standard modifiers and while it's possible to change it for a more modern layout, it takes more manual skills while the F122 already has a very nice layout as is.
So I can't compare my F to an M since I have not been using an M for 15+ years, but from what I remember I didn't like the M so much (but I was younger) while the model F is a dream to type on. It feels smooth, light, crisp, springy clicky all of this at the same time. For typing it's just perfect in my opinion. And it's built like a tank.
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The F122 connector is not AT. The AT connector was five pins in a 180 degree spread, while the F122 has them spread across 270 degrees. Plus you need an active converter since they speak terminal, not AT. You can make an external Soarer converter that will work, but it definitely requires some specialized parts. I too love my F122s to death, but I recognize that to get them going requires more work than most casual and even many enthusiast users may be willing to invest, especially if they want to disassemble and modify it to near-ANSI standard layout, rather than the default near-ISO that they start as.
In OPs case, I think the extra level of effort required for a gift to a more casual user might not be fully appreciated in the end.
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I think the F is a better keyboard, but I'd keep an eye out for a better price.