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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 30 May 2014, 11:15:08
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I've maintained for a long time that stickers are for aesthetics only. I don't feel the reduction in wobble in MX switches that others claim. However, I think that it might be interesting to experiment with stickers on Alps switches since they have a much more noticeable wobble versus MX.
Do you think stickers make a difference in how the keyswitch feels?
Why or why not?
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Purely for aesthetics only.
They do actually function in the way they are intended, but you can't tell any difference in actual use.
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No but I like them anyway.
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I do like having less wobble. I don't really notice it when typing.
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The stem wobbles in the housing more than the housing halves wobble against each other. That's why you can tell no difference in use.
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Not at all. I love the aesthetics though.
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+1 for aesthetics with and additional +99 with clear switch top covers :thumb:
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now if only I could find some clear switch top covers!!!
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Aesthetics only.
Make the next KTOD on vintage switches :cool:
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Make the next KTOD on vintage switches :cool:
You're not my real dad!
I'm divided on how they look in the clear tops because if they're not perfectly placed, it looks sloppy and throws the look off in my opinion.
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Make the next KTOD on vintage switches :cool:
You're not my real dad!
I'm divided on how they look in the clear tops because if they're not perfectly placed, it looks sloppy and throws the look off in my opinion.
vintage non cherry switches are great.
About stickers, they make having the brittle clear switch tops worthwhile. It's pretty to look at when you change your keycaps.
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Doesn't feel any different.
However, it might help with resale value!
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Doesn't feel any different.
However, it might help with resale value!
this is a very good point. I can admit to including certain aspects of a custom kb simply to increase possible resale value.
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Doesn't feel any different.
However, it might help with resale value!
Not after people read this thread :P
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On pcb mounted switches, you can visibly see that the top housing wobbles less.
But still, can't really feel a difference.
One thing I hate about mechs is how much the stem wobbles, wish there was a mod for that.
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On pcb mounted switches, you can visibly see that the top housing wobbles less.
But still, can't really feel a difference.
One thing I hate about mechs is how much the stem wobbles, wish there was a mod for that.
Then buy space invaders, there is no stem wobble, because nearly the entire switch is also stem/slider.
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I've maintained for a long time that stickers are for aesthetics only. I don't feel the reduction in wobble in MX switches that others claim. However, I think that it might be interesting to experiment with stickers on Alps switches since they have a much more noticeable wobble versus MX.
Do you think stickers make a difference in how the keyswitch feels?
Why or why not?
For me, it's aesthetics only. I feel no difference at all.
And on the Alps front, I don't think it would make a difference at all. First off, given the Alps design, where would the sticker go? At the bottom of the inside of the switch? Adhered to the top inside of the switch? I don't see any way one would work or affect the feel. Secondly, due to the nature of the slider design in the Alps switch, the switch has considerable wobble since there is a ton of room for it to move around and wobble inside the housing.
Doesn't feel any different.
However, it might help with resale value!
I'd disagree. If anything, it could hurt if the person doesn't like the color used. Mods, to me at least, add no value to a keyboard since most mods I see are not my preferred mod and, as such, would just result in me modding it anyways. Mods are always for personal preference.
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I recently re-springed, lubed, and stickered a bunch of clears for my upcoming KMAC II build. My extremely unscientific experience was that the stickers *very slightly* reduced the play in some of the switch housings. But I am not convinced it will translate to anything noticeable for real world use.
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I tried out the stickers and I guess they're purely for aesthetic reasons but hey they look really pretty but a real PITA to apply. :(
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And on the Alps front, I don't think it would make a difference at all. First off, given the Alps design, where would the sticker go? At the bottom of the inside of the switch? Adhered to the top inside of the switch? I don't see any way one would work or affect the feel. Secondly, due to the nature of the slider design in the Alps switch, the switch has considerable wobble since there is a ton of room for it to move around and wobble inside the housing.
You make a good point, I'm still thinking there must be a way to reduce the wobble. Just for keyboard science sake.
Doesn't feel any different.
However, it might help with resale value!
I'd disagree. If anything, it could hurt if the person doesn't like the color used. Mods, to me at least, add no value to a keyboard since most mods I see are not my preferred mod and, as such, would just result in me modding it anyways. Mods are always for personal preference.
I agree with nubbinator's resale value statement. I would definitely not pay extra because someone stickered their switches. And I've happily destickered used switches to use them.
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I've never fully inspected an Alps switch, but a thin plastic rectangle with an opening in the center and a lipped edge. You slide it over the stem inside of the housing and the lip sits on the top of the housing, which reduces the amount of space to wobble. Maybe made of POM or something.
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Sub-KTOD do you think plates make a difference in how the key switch feels?
I gather from this thread so far that a little wobble is barely noticeable. I haven't tried a keyboard without a plate, so I am wondering if the feeling is similar.
Oddly I like the feeling knowing that my switches are really stable. Minimal wobble makes me feel like the board is assembled well. Even if the feeling while typing isn't significantly changed.
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Sub-KTOD do you think plates make a difference in how the key switch feels?
Absolutely. Plate mount vs PCB mount MX feel very different. I prefer plate mount.
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Sub-KTOD do you think plates make a difference in how the key switch feels?
I originally thought the question was about to ask about materials of plate and/or plate thickness.
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Sub-KTOD do you think plates make a difference in how the key switch feels?
Plate vs PCB difference is very noticeable, plate mount feels much more solid and stable. The difference is more pronounced for tactile keys compared to linear keys, it makes the tacticality stand out more. My preference, hands down, would always be plate mount but if I were going to use a PCB mount board I would probably want black or red switches inside of it. PCB mount browns feel awful IMO, but plate mount browns are totally usable. PCB mount clears are numb enough they almost feel like plate mount browns. PCB blacks feel almost identical with or without a plate.
I've only typed on boards with steel plates, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was even a difference in feel between steel and aluminum plates. The aluminum plate I got as a prototype during my group buy feels so much more flimsy than the stainless one I have to imagine it would feel slightly different to type on.
Regrading switch stickers, I was on the fence about stickering some of my boards but after reading this thread I don't think I'll put in the time or effort since it sounds like it doesn't make any appreciable difference.
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Plates: yes but not always for the better
Stickers: not really
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They helped my pcb-mount boards, made them feel less loose/flimsy. My cheap Adesso keypad (ergo clears) was horrendous before, now it's just 'meh' but useable.
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I do not get the aesthetics claims, if the stickers are under the caps and switches covers, aren't they? then, how they may improve the look of the keyboard?
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I've seen a lot of mention of switch stickers since joining this forum and was wondering just how they accomplished what was said of them. Considering the majority of the responses to this thread I think I'm going to pass on stickering these clears when I swap the springs.
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They helped my pcb-mount boards, made them feel less loose/flimsy. My cheap Adesso keypad (ergo clears) was horrendous before, now it's just 'meh' but useable.
Glad I'm not the only one who can tell a difference.
In my experience they DO help by pulling the slider rails in a touch and preventing them from moving. Without stickers, the switch top can tilt and allow the rails to move.
They made a noticable difference on my PCB mounted KBT Pure. I am also getting a plate for it, to make it feel even better :)
I find most technical systems respond in similar ways to "tweaks". They all add up. For instance, if you take a PCB mount board with thin ABS caps and stock switches and sticker them, add a plate, nice thick keycaps, mod to help the bottom out feel (trampoline or whatever floats your boat at the time), the board goes from feeling just okay to feeling great, really "tight" (admittedly, the keycaps and plate will make the biggest difference, but they all help). It's the same with overclocking a computer. Changing memory timings, for instance, doesn't make much real world difference on its own, but when combined with voltage and frequency increases, bus frequency and timing tweaks, etc. the overall performance increase can be marked.
Every little bit helps. Eventually you reach a point of diminishing returns, however, where the tweaks start to have less and less effect, to the point that the effort needed to do them isn't matched by the amount of improvement. Where that point lies is different for everyone, but for me stickers are still on the "worth the effort" side of the point. Usually because I am also modding the switches some other way and can add the stickers as part of the process.
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I've seen a lot of mention of switch stickers since joining this forum and was wondering just how they accomplished what was said of them. Considering the majority of the responses to this thread I think I'm going to pass on stickering these clears when I swap the springs.
I kind of feel like stickering is just a thing to do when modding switches that makes them feel more "custom". Since they're cheap anyways, I don't really see a problem in that though.
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I couldn't tell a difference but I do love the look of them on Korean Customs!
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I've seen a lot of mention of switch stickers since joining this forum and was wondering just how they accomplished what was said of them. Considering the majority of the responses to this thread I think I'm going to pass on stickering these clears when I swap the springs.
I think it's closer to say that the consensus is that it doesn't do alot, but it's worth doing it if your switches are already apart; however not worth it if that's the only reason you would take them apart.
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I've seen a lot of mention of switch stickers since joining this forum and was wondering just how they accomplished what was said of them. Considering the majority of the responses to this thread I think I'm going to pass on stickering these clears when I swap the springs.
I kind of feel like stickering is just a thing to do when modding switches that makes them feel more "custom". Since they're cheap anyways, I don't really see a problem in that though.
I agree. I can't really tell the difference with or without stickers, but I imagine they can have a stabilizing effect on the switch if the top half happens to loosen after removing it for lubing or swapping springs. They do look nice though.
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I think it's closer to say that the consensus is that it doesn't do alot, but it's worth doing it if your switches are already apart; however not worth it if that's the only reason you would take them apart.
Fair point. I may still get some just to try them out since they aren't exactly a massive expenditure. Can't hurt to form an opinion for myself.
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I've seen a lot of mention of switch stickers since joining this forum and was wondering just how they accomplished what was said of them. Considering the majority of the responses to this thread I think I'm going to pass on stickering these clears when I swap the springs.
I kind of feel like stickering is just a thing to do when modding switches that makes them feel more "custom". Since they're cheap anyways, I don't really see a problem in that though.
I agree. I can't really tell the difference with or without stickers, but I imagine they can have a stabilizing effect on the switch if the top half happens to loosen after removing it for lubing or swapping springs. They do look nice though.
The tops are loose already when new and untouched. I agree that it's probably not worth doing on a plate mounted board with nice thick keycaps. The difference will not be worth desoldering the switches just to add stickers. However, if you're already modding the switches somehow, I recommend adding stickers. The difference may not be big, but it does exist.
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I have nothing to contribute to this thread, as I prefer buckling springs. Just wanted to comment that when I recently became a member of this forum, learning what switch stickers are, and what they are used for - probably took me the longest to figure out in terms of mechanical keyboard lingo.
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I have nothing to contribute to this thread, as I prefer buckling springs. Just wanted to comment that when I recently became a member of this forum, learning what switch stickers are, and what they are used for - probably took me the longest to figure out in terms of mechanical keyboard lingo.
I suppose that's another reason to sticker your switches: It lets you feel more elitist when new users try to figure out what you're talking about. Also, it gives you another spec to list when describing your mech :D
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I have nothing to contribute to this thread, as I prefer buckling springs. Just wanted to comment that when I recently became a member of this forum, learning what switch stickers are, and what they are used for - probably took me the longest to figure out in terms of mechanical keyboard lingo.
I suppose that's another reason to sticker your switches: It lets you feel more elitist when new users try to figure out what you're talking about. Also, it gives you another spec to list when describing your mech :D
I like this. :thumb:
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I think people just add stickers to put another stat on their keyboard.
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I have nothing to contribute to this thread, as I prefer buckling springs. Just wanted to comment that when I recently became a member of this forum, learning what switch stickers are, and what they are used for - probably took me the longest to figure out in terms of mechanical keyboard lingo.
I suppose that's another reason to sticker your switches: It lets you feel more elitist when new users try to figure out what you're talking about. Also, it gives you another spec to list when describing your mech :D
This.
I've done multiple searches (most pointing back to geekhack) about stickers and can't find anything about them other than posts referencing "aesthetics and feel" with no pictures of actual aesthetics that make a difference (most are pictures with keys off, which means that people would only see them with clear keys or when doing maitenance) haha.