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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: dantan on Sat, 31 May 2014, 12:34:25

Title: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: dantan on Sat, 31 May 2014, 12:34:25: I found an ebay listing WASD Code Keyboard Cherry MX Green Switch TKL by a seller called flockofmyles.

He claimed the keycaps on the WASD were worth $100.

It looks really suspicious that a bunch of mismatched keycaps are so expensive.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: tigersharkdude on Sat, 31 May 2014, 12:43:13: Depending on the caps, yes they can be that expensive

go take a look in the group buy section and note the prices, or look at some artisan caps (clickclack's for example where some single caps are worth more than some boards)
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: isaske on Sat, 31 May 2014, 12:45:39: Yes, some are, some aren't.
The good, quality sets are around 100$. You can also order on TaoBao or somewhere cheap and get caps for 30 - 40$. But there is a noticeable difference in quality (cap thickness, font, colors, etc.)
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: Psybin on Sat, 31 May 2014, 13:11:49: Yea a nice IMTSO thick PBT cherry profile set is around $100. To me they were worth it and I have bought a couple. I don't know enough about all the other keys and plastic types to make an educated recommendation on anything else but with a high price point for very quality caps being around $100 for a 104 set, the same price for anything that's potentially less quality would be questionable.

example http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&page=2&manufacturer_id=13&product_id=59
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 31 May 2014, 13:17:55: This is the board in question:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WASD-Code-Keyboard-Cherry-MX-Green-Switch-TKL-/281341539654?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item4181433546

I cant even tell if he mean he is selling those keycaps with it in the first place.

He is also selling an SSK for 750 and a new F XT for 550 :blank:
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: anoxy on Sat, 31 May 2014, 13:53:08: If you add up the price he paid for each individual novelty cap on that board, sure it might be somewhere around 100 bucks. But I don't really think they should hold on to that full value if he's re-selling, considering a lot of those are still readily available.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:39:18: Quote from: anoxy on Sat, 31 May 2014, 13:53:08
If you add up the price he paid for each individual novelty cap on that board, sure it might be somewhere around 100 bucks. But I don't really think they should hold on to that full value if he's re-selling, considering a lot of those are still readily available.

I'm not even sure that's true lol... seems like a rip-off to me!
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: tigersharkdude on Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:47:57: Quote from: baldgye on Sat, 31 May 2014, 17:39:18
Quote from: anoxy on Sat, 31 May 2014, 13:53:08
If you add up the price he paid for each individual novelty cap on that board, sure it might be somewhere around 100 bucks. But I don't really think they should hold on to that full value if he's re-selling, considering a lot of those are still readily available.

I'm not even sure that's true lol... seems like a rip-off to me!

I see nothing "special" about those keycaps, just a bunch of mass produced, easily obtainable caps

why are you looking at that particular board and not a new piece?
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: cmadrid on Sat, 31 May 2014, 18:49:23: plus if you buy that board you either need to take most of those keycaps off, or have a board that looks like garbage.. that thing is hideous >_0
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: epzy on Sat, 31 May 2014, 19:31:08: Well, I just counted really quickly, and I saw 53 keycaps that were not stock CODE keycaps. If you do $2 x 53 that's over $100. And not to mention that most, if not all of those are more than $2 @ retail. :p Still a horrendous deal, though. I don't think anyone wants those EXACT keycaps, etc.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: lightsout714 on Sat, 31 May 2014, 19:52:52: He must be a GH'er with all those GB keycaps.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:00:07: Quote from: lightsout714 on Sat, 31 May 2014, 19:52:52
He must be a GH'er with all those GB keycaps.
Not really, all of those keycaps are available through techkeys, keypop, and originative.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: Psybin on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:22:22: Buy a new board of your choosing plus a nice set of thick cherry profile caps and then lurk for the next artisan cap sale to dress it up. I wouldn't bother with that used and meh board.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:37:49: Backspace, A, S, D and [{ look like Tai hao - OEM profile. Many of the rest are DCS profile.

The mismatch in key height would make that keyboard somewhat uncomfortable to type on.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: anoxy on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:38:24: I just...don't even understand this thread.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: moptimus on Sat, 31 May 2014, 21:18:39: It is a pretty good way to get rid of some surplus keys if you can get the board to move, just relying on someone wanting it enough.

Looks like a lot of buyers remorse tbh - all these novelties and no where to use them.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 31 May 2014, 21:42:59: To me adding so many novelty keycaps to a CODE keyboard destroys its essential simplicity.

The black keys with white backlighting is spoiled by so many random novelty caps.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 31 May 2014, 22:34:43: The incremental cost of producing single-injection-molded keycaps is probably only a few bucks per keyboard, but the tooling and overhead is pretty steep, so anything done in small batches ends up being very expensive. Double injection molding or dye sublimation probably costs a bit more, but again most of the cost is fixed overhead, not per-set.

If you have 100,000 identical sets of keycaps you want to produce, you can get someone in China to make them for very cheap. If you only want 10 sets, you’re going to have to pay a lot for it.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 31 May 2014, 22:48:54: wat
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: tigersharkdude on Sat, 31 May 2014, 23:44:46: Quote from: jacobolus on Sat, 31 May 2014, 22:34:43
The incremental cost of producing single-injection-molded keycaps is probably only a few bucks per keyboard, but the tooling and overhead is pretty steep, so anything done in small batches ends up being very expensive. Double injection molding or dye sublimation probably costs a bit more, but again most of the cost is fixed overhead, not per-set.

If you have 100,000 identical sets of keycaps you want to produce, you can get someone in China to make them for very cheap. If you only want 10 sets, you’re going to have to pay a lot for it.

did you even remotely read the OP?
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: Kayla on Sat, 31 May 2014, 23:53:18: That is like the ugliest keyboard ever and its just a bunch of retail caps that are made by the thousands. Nothing there is rare. The board is worth the re-sale value of the code and thats all. Get a new board.. :p
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 31 May 2014, 23:57:48: Quote from: tigersharkdude on Sat, 31 May 2014, 23:44:46
did you even remotely read the OP?
Yes. The OP is wondering whether this thing has keycaps worth $100:
(http://i.imgur.com/P3fk3q8.jpg)

I could certainly believe that the seller paid $100 for those specific keycaps (or he might have paid much less, I have no specific knowledge here). I won’t speculate about what they’re “worth”: it depends on supply and demand.

More generally, the incremental production costs is only a few cents per keycap, assuming large quantities. However, since these are produced in small batches for a niche audience, the large fixed overhead could drive costs up dramatically.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: epzy on Sun, 01 June 2014, 00:07:09: Quote from: jacobolus on Sat, 31 May 2014, 23:57:48
Quote from: tigersharkdude on Sat, 31 May 2014, 23:44:46
did you even remotely read the OP?
Yes. The OP is wondering whether this thing has keycaps worth $100:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/P3fk3q8.jpg)

I could certainly believe that the seller paid $100 for those specific keycaps (or he might have paid much less, I have no specific knowledge here). I won’t speculate about what they’re “worth”: it depends on supply and demand.

More generally, the incremental production costs is only a few cents per keycap, assuming large quantities. However, since these are produced in small batches for a niche audience, the large fixed overhead could drive costs up dramatically.

Most of those novelties cost $3+ at techkeys/keypop etc. I think the right shift cost $4,99. Anyway, the keycaps definitely have a $100+ value at retail.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: lightsout714 on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:41:05: Quote from: HPE1000 on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:00:07
Quote from: lightsout714 on Sat, 31 May 2014, 19:52:52
He must be a GH'er with all those GB keycaps.
Not really, all of those keycaps are available through techkeys, keypop, and originative.

Sure but most people don't find/use those sites without being familiar with this or similar sites.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: cherpalla on Mon, 02 June 2014, 21:54:43: Yes, keycaps can be quite expensive, those particular keycaps are not. He probably paid over $100 for the board and another $100 for the keycaps, but that board, as it is, is not worth $250. He's trying to sell it as one piece, and it's pretty unlikely anyone is looking for all of those keys. He'd be better off selling the keys solo and the board separately, since he has the original keycaps.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: RESPRiT on Mon, 02 June 2014, 22:17:58: Quote from: jacobolus on Sat, 31 May 2014, 23:57:48
Quote from: tigersharkdude on Sat, 31 May 2014, 23:44:46
did you even remotely read the OP?
Yes. The OP is wondering whether this thing has keycaps worth $100:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/P3fk3q8.jpg)

Jesus, this guy took unicorn vomit to heart.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 03 June 2014, 06:32:37: They probably cost the seller that to collect them, but I wouldn't pay that much for that mess of novelty caps. There are maybe only 4 or 5 I would even want. Not to mention that most of them are thin ABS in DCS profile and not that great to type on. And the fact that most of the alphas are OEM profile, so they don't even match.

Just buy a decent board in the layout you like with the switches you like and join in Ivan's GMK Dolch Group Buy before July 1 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58608.0). Last keycaps you'll need, look good on any board and they should feel fantastic to use.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: Candyflip on Tue, 03 June 2014, 06:54:14: I never understood the love for a vomit keyboard, I mean you may like it if you are 13 I guess but you won't have the money to make one so...
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: RESPRiT on Tue, 03 June 2014, 07:32:40: Quote from: Candyflip on Tue, 03 June 2014, 06:54:14
I never understood the love for a vomit keyboard, I mean you may like it if you are 13 I guess but you won't have the money to make one so...

Before this, the only vomit boards I'd seen before were made up of grab bag caps and were just jokes.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 15:01:52: Quote from: RESPRiT on Tue, 03 June 2014, 07:32:40
Quote from: Candyflip on Tue, 03 June 2014, 06:54:14
I never understood the love for a vomit keyboard, I mean you may like it if you are 13 I guess but you won't have the money to make one so...

Before this, the only vomit boards I'd seen before were made up of grab bag caps and were just jokes.

You have led a sheltered life :))

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36709.0
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 17:42:39: Ah yes, my favorite thread.
Title: Re: Are keycaps really so expensive?
Post by: dantan on Tue, 01 July 2014, 02:00:03: Quote from: Kayla on Sat, 31 May 2014, 23:53:18
That is like the ugliest keyboard ever and its just a bunch of retail caps that are made by the thousands. Nothing there is rare. The board is worth the re-sale value of the code and thats all. Get a new board.. :p

Yes, it seems the seller is not offering a fair deal. He's clearly trying to get rid of odds and ends he collected.