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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: bigpook on Mon, 04 May 2009, 18:46:41

Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Mon, 04 May 2009, 18:46:41: Don't know about doing this in windows or mac but would like to do it in linux. Running ubuntu 9.04 and gnome if it matters.

As an example I want to map the Win key + L key to be Page Up.

I am able to swap escape with tilde using xmodmap, but can't figure out how to combine multiple keys.

It would be nice to emulate the HHKB layout on a regular keyboard.

Anyone here know how to do this. Google and Clusty are not being helpful.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: IBI on Mon, 04 May 2009, 20:42:37: Why not just use a macro program? Autohotkey is popular for windows but I'm sure there's some Linux equivelent.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: xyzzy on Tue, 05 May 2009, 02:22:39: Have you tried xbindkeys (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=79560&page=1)?

I think it lets map keyboard shortcuts to actions, I'm not sure if it also allows you to map keys combinations to other keys...
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: cb951303 on Tue, 05 May 2009, 09:19:19: I'm not sure if it helps but there is a good amount of layout options at Preferences > Keyboard > Layouts > Layout Options
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: o2dazone on Tue, 05 May 2009, 10:00:59: if I want to permanently switch one key with another (ie. Left Control <--> Caps Lock) I use Keytweak...because it actually sends the real scancode for that key.

For combination type stuff, I use Autohotkey (it's really easy to use too), and instead of sending a scancode, it just intercepts the stroke and puts something else there instead. It's also really nice for automating things you don't want to deal with (like going afk in battlegrounds lol)
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Tue, 05 May 2009, 14:59:44: I use xmodmap now to swap keys, for example:

#! /bin/sh

#swap escape with tilde on the model m spacesaver

#Using the original tilde key as escape
xmodmap -e "keycode 49 = Escape"

#Using the original escape key as tilde and tick
xmodmap -e "keycode 9 = asciitilde grave"

I haven't figured out how to map multiple keys yet, for example:

The windows k is mapped as Meta_L

xev returns this:

KeyRelease event, serial 35, synthetic NO, window 0x5a00001,
root 0x1a7, subw 0x0, time 157126402, (102,774), root:(1646,828),
state 0x40, keycode 133 (keysym 0xffe7, Meta_L), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False

The k key returns this:

KeyPress event, serial 35, synthetic NO, window 0x5a00001,
root 0x1a7, subw 0x0, time 157178744, (-282,751), root:(1262,805),
state 0x0, keycode 45 (keysym 0x6b, k), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 1 bytes: (6b) "k"
XmbLookupString gives 1 bytes: (6b) "k"
XFilterEvent returns: False

The home key returns:

KeyPress event, serial 35, synthetic NO, window 0x5a00001,
root 0x1a7, subw 0x0, time 157241473, (-184,650), root:(1360,704),
state 0x0, keycode 110 (keysym 0xff50, Home), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False

I want Meta_L + k to equal Home

I just haven't figured how to write it yet.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: cmr on Tue, 05 May 2009, 22:56:44: xmodmap is what you'll want for this

when you're done writing about 100k of .xmodmap can you let me know how i can turn pause into a spare Win_L
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 06 May 2009, 04:47:59: Thats easy to do.

The left Windows key returns this:

KeyPress event, serial 35, synthetic NO, window 0x4e00001,
root 0x1a7, subw 0x4e00002, time 206698266, (22,55), root:(1366,109),
state 0x0, keycode 133 (keysym 0xffeb, Super_L), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False

The Pause key returns this:

KeyPress event, serial 35, synthetic NO, window 0x5000001,
root 0x1a7, subw 0x0, time 206763836, (1108,-233), root:(1111,663),
state 0x0, keycode 127 (keysym 0xff13, Pause), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False

To turn pause into a spare Win_L key do this:

xmodmap -e "keycode 127 = Super_L"
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: pmyshkin on Sun, 10 May 2009, 13:56:09: You can do this with the xserver keymaps. I'm not really familiar with this, but you can look in /usr/share/kbd/keymaps/i386/ (might be different in your distro) for some examples, notably emacs.map.gz.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: iMav on Sun, 10 May 2009, 16:52:35: Mapping caps lock to Cntrl and swapping the "\|" and backspace keys has typically been good enough for me to stay consistent between HHKB and other keyboards.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Sun, 10 May 2009, 19:34:10: Quote from: iMav;90190
Mapping caps lock to Cntrl and swapping the "\|" and backspace keys has typically been good enough for me to stay consistent between HHKB and other keyboards.

swapping the caps lock and control keys is trivial in gnome. But I am having issues with the \| and backspace.

I can swap the backspace key with no issues, but can only get either | or \ to work at any given time. iMav, you are running mac os, right? I assume their is a simple way for you to make the swap.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Sun, 07 June 2009, 08:33:23: Got a reply from the ubuntu forum on how to swap the backspace and pipe keys.

The key is to edit the file,

/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/pc

and change the following:

key {
type="CTRL+ALT",
symbols[Group1]= [ BackSpace, Terminate_Server ]
};

to:

key {
type="TWO_LEVEL",
symbols[Group1]= [ BackSpace, Terminate_Server ]
};

I put this in a bash file that I can call on startup or from the command line

#swap the backspace and pipe key, like it is on a HHKB
xmodmap -e "keycode 51 = BackSpace"
xmodmap -e "keycode 22 = backslash bar"

Now all I need to figure is the Fnc + keys for Page Up/Down, Home/End etc.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Sun, 07 June 2009, 11:43:12: thanks ripster. I am not putting a whole lot of time into this as it IS a pain in the butt. But I have feelers out in multiple forums. From what I am seeing, no one has tried to emulate an HHKB in linux yet.

Swapping keys is fairly trivial, especially lettered keys. But keys like Backspace, Tab and so on seem to be treated differently.

One of the things I notice when running xmodmap -pke is this:

keycode 52 = z Z z Z z Z

Notice the code is 52 and its for the letter z.

What makes it interesting is that there are 6 instances of the letter z

The first one is simply when you press the 'z' key. Its lower case...

The second instance is 'Z' which you get when you hit Shift + z.

It is the next 4 instances that I can't figure out.

I have tried the obvious, Alt, Cntrl, Super, Meta but can't get it to register.

What I am afraid of is that there is another /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/pc
file that has to be edited, or something else entirely.

Once I have it worked out, I will clean up this thread and finalize it.

This is one of the things that makes linux a pain to use. Granted, there are not that many people out there trying to do this. And to be blunt, the ones that do have the brain power to knock it out in a few minutes.
I am somewhere in between, not too stupid to care and not too bright to figure it out quickly.
Ah, mediocrity. Does that put me in the middle of the bell curve?
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Sun, 07 June 2009, 12:44:42: Forgot to mention, the modifier keys can be listed like this:

anthony@anthony:~$ xmodmap -pm
xmodmap: up to 3 keys per modifier, (keycodes in parentheses):

shift Shift_L (0x32), Shift_R (0x3e)
lock Caps_Lock (0x25)
control Control_L (0x42), Control_R (0x69)
mod1 Alt_L (0x40), Alt_R (0x6c), Meta_L (0xcd)
mod2 Num_Lock (0x4d)
mod3
mod4 Super_L (0xce), Hyper_L (0xcf)
mod5 ISO_Level3_Shift (0x5c), Mode_switch (0xcb)

not sure yet how that all works and how they can be called
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: nvarsj on Sat, 11 July 2009, 21:59:00: Sorry to necro a 4 week old post. I'm pretty interested in trying this out on Linux as well.

xmodmap is a bit confusing but it's the way to accomplish this. You can do it with the Mode_switch key. For example, to turn my caps into Mode_switch (aka "fn" on hhkb) and bind Caps+s to Down:
Code: [Select]
keysym 66 = Mode_switch keycode 39 = s S Down

Third key is what gets generated when pressed with Mode_switch. Second is with shift.

I'm going to work on setting this up, only problem is different keyboards seem to generate different keycodes (mostly just for control/alt/super), so it may not work for others.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: nvarsj on Sat, 11 July 2009, 22:49:09: Ok, I've made a decently functioning xmodmaprc for linux. Just run 'xmodmap hhkb-xmodmaprc.txt' and it should work. Control and alt keys at bottom may be wrong, you can change the keycodes appropriately (use xev to see the keycodes).

I bound shift to "Fn". I think this emulates the location on the HHKB the best. However you may get frustrated having no right shift - I know I am. :P
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 15 July 2009, 17:23:58: nvarsj, great work. I just got around to looking at it and made some changes.
I put the function key on the left windows key and put left alt back. I put /| where the backspace key is and put ~` where escape is up in the far left.

I am really liking that page up/down, home/end are working just like the hhkb.

Thanks much for contributing, great job!

see attached for the changed I made
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: nvarsj on Wed, 15 July 2009, 21:43:31: It feels pretty nice. The only weirdness to me is not having the arrow keys be an inverted T shape. A bit unfortunate they chose a diamond shape. If it was an inverted T I might just be tempted to by an HHKB... Although I probably will buy one at some point anyways.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 16 July 2009, 04:13:41: I had gotten used to the layout of the hhkb so the diamond layout isn't really a problem for me. The fnc + wasd might be interesting to try out though.
It's kind of funny, now that I can emulate the key pattern of the hhkb I no longer need to actually have the hhkb. I think I liked the hhkb layout more then I liked the topre keys.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: xsphat on Thu, 16 July 2009, 04:34:18: HHKB Pro haters.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 16 July 2009, 12:40:40: Its also nice to emulate the hhkb layout on other keyboards, especially if you already have an hhkb and do like the layout. Using wasd for the arrow keys sounds interesting but would want the function key on the right windows key I think. I will try that out and post the config.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: Rajagra on Thu, 16 July 2009, 13:44:04: Quote from: ripster;102870
Eiiti Wada - designer of the HHKB
Show Image
(http://member.wide.ad.jp/~wada/wadaseg2.png)

Tsk. It's Stephen Hawking's athletic younger brother showing off to the ladies again. Poor Steve, always getting his nose rubbed in it.

Just how old is the HHKB layout? I would have thought WASD, or at least the inverted T predated it.

I found one guy (http://www.mit.edu/~yandros/doc/tc-hack-zen.html) who hates the T layout.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 16 July 2009, 13:49:40: ripster, did you map LCTRL to the caps lock key or is it in the lower left hand corner?
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 16 July 2009, 14:32:31: maybe not a lot of innovation if only because the original idea was so good?
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 16 July 2009, 17:06:28: I got the wasd programmed and I am using the right windows key as the function key. I am trying out fnc + e for page up and fnc+f for page down. Still playing with it but not sure where to put home and end.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 16 July 2009, 17:48:12: this is more than I wanted to do, but maybe a visual will help.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3200&d=1247784455)
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 16 July 2009, 19:40:08: I found the keyboard pic doing a google search and I used the gimp to modify it.
Having the xmodmap file so kindly provided makes life much easier. Its simple to edit and implement now.
I used to be dismissive of the windows key, now it is actually useful to me.
My model m mini's just cried a little bit.

Whats nice is that I can dial it in to exactly what I want. I suppose you can do the same with autohotkeys on windows.

Being able to do this now makes the hhkb much less valuable to me now. sigh.

brown cherries are the most sublime keys going.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 16 July 2009, 19:54:12: hey man, be nice or face the wrath of the topre gang : )

just to distance myself from the above mentioned heretic; I have to say the HHKB is a great keyboard. Great key layout in a small form factor and the topre keys are very nice too.

But yeah, once you can emulate the layout its game over. I now have 3 sets of arrow keys, the wasd setup, the hhkb setup and the existing arrow keys that already exist. Thats pretty sweet.
Title: emulating the HHKB on a standard keyboard (linux)
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 16 July 2009, 20:22:49: Heres the original picture of the keyboard

click me (http://www.seoconsultants.com/windows/keyboard/)