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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: daerid on Tue, 03 June 2014, 11:16:19

Title: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: daerid on Tue, 03 June 2014, 11:16:19
So I just put a set of Vortex thick white on black DS PBT caps on my Code keyboard, and HOLY **** IT'S LIKE SEX ON MY FINGERTIPS. How does anybody stand ABS keycaps? They just feel so, ugh... flimsy and fake and just stupid.

Stupid ABS and their stupid feeling stupid keycaps.

</rant>

Just had to get that off my chest.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 03 June 2014, 11:19:16
You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Tue, 03 June 2014, 11:19:26
I shared your feelings until I tried stuff from GMK/Cherry.  I do prefer PBT more overall though, just because it keeps its texture so much longer than ABS.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: daerid on Tue, 03 June 2014, 11:22:23
You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.

Do they shine? I don't care how thick they are if they shine. Shine == teh yuck.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: dante on Tue, 03 June 2014, 11:26:18
Honestly POM are pure perfection.  It baffles me that they never caught on.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Tue, 03 June 2014, 11:29:57
You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.

Do they shine? I don't care how thick they are if they shine. Shine == teh yuck.
Yep, they still shine, but I've read lots of comments from people on how the feeling on them still remains very pleasant despite it.
Do not fear the shine.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: t2russo on Tue, 03 June 2014, 11:30:20
Honestly POM are pure perfection.  It baffles me that they never caught on.

I'm trying to get a POM buy going soon. THEY WILL CATCH ON.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: dante on Tue, 03 June 2014, 11:47:48
Honestly POM are pure perfection.  It baffles me that they never caught on.

I'm trying to get a POM buy going soon. THEY WILL CATCH ON.

I'm not optimistic that they will catch on.  A few years ago all of the Chinese boards had them ... but today not so much ...

Cherry and Keycool might be the last hold outs ... not even sure PLU/PLUM is making any more boards with these.

edit: Noppoo was another one but I read rumors on a badly translated Chinese site that they going to cease producing Cherry keyboards soon in favor of their own switch.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 03 June 2014, 11:50:56
If it doesn't have double shot legends, I'm not interested. Which is why ABS wins. :)
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: t2russo on Tue, 03 June 2014, 12:13:37
No legends best legends.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 03 June 2014, 12:27:31
Best would be blank PBT from desko, super rare doe
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: MAR82 on Tue, 03 June 2014, 12:34:53
Honestly POM are pure perfection.  It baffles me that they never caught on.

I'm trying to get a POM buy going soon. THEY WILL CATCH ON.

I'm not optimistic that they will catch on.  A few years ago all of the Chinese boards had them ... but today not so much ...

Cherry and Keycool might be the last hold outs ... not even sure PLU/PLUM is making any more boards with these.

edit: Noppoo was another one but I read rumors on a badly translated Chinese site that they going to cease producing Cherry keyboards soon in favor of their own switch.

I think I remember seeing somewhere that Noppoo and KeyCool would be switching to Kailh switches
Also that KeyCool would still be making boards with Cherry switches too
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Moosecraft on Tue, 03 June 2014, 13:07:54
I honestly only like caps made by cherry, whether its dyesub PBT or doubleshot ABS. I use both on a regular basis and enjoy both a lot.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 15:03:21
If it doesn't have double shot legends, I'm not interested. Which is why ABS wins. :)

Or Vortex PBT DS?
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 03 June 2014, 15:06:25
JD and t2russo, stop blowing my cover. While everyone is scrambling to get PBT, we get POM and Cherry/GMK Doubleshot ABS.

SHHHHH  :))
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: daerid on Tue, 03 June 2014, 16:51:21
If it doesn't have double shot legends, I'm not interested. Which is why ABS wins. :)

Or Vortex PBT DS?

*ding* *ding*
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 03 June 2014, 17:05:24
If it doesn't have double shot legends, I'm not interested. Which is why ABS wins. :)

Or Vortex PBT DS?

Two problems with those, beyond the unpleasant texture of the PBT.

1. Have you seen the legends on those things?

2. Vortex

;)
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: epzy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 17:14:43
^
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 17:40:58
If it doesn't have double shot legends, I'm not interested. Which is why ABS wins. :)

Or Vortex PBT DS?

Two problems with those, beyond the unpleasant texture of the PBT.

1. Have you seen the legends on those things?

2. Vortex

;)

yep

I like ABS because it's super smooth, and the shine is awesome because it's like "this is how much I love my keyboard"
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 03 June 2014, 17:49:30
I like ABS because it's super smooth, and the shine is awesome because it's like "this is how much I love my keyboard"

This is actually how I feel too.  I put a NIB set of Cherry doubleshots on my main keyboard at work a year or so ago, and they are now nice and shiny.  Shows how much I love them.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Dubsgalore on Tue, 03 June 2014, 17:59:59
You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.

^ this man has it on point
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 18:07:22
If it doesn't have double shot legends, I'm not interested. Which is why ABS wins. :)

Or Vortex PBT DS?

Two problems with those, beyond the unpleasant texture of the PBT.

1. Have you seen the legends on those things?

2. Vortex

;)

The later versions have bearable and mostly consistent legends.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 03 June 2014, 18:16:37
I used to think I prefer PBT until I tried some good ole shiny Cherry doubleshots.  It was love at the first type, so to speak.  It ruined thick PBT for me.  I have these neat dye sub PBTs from a Royal Alpha typewriter, and I had them on for a bit, having read how BSP's PBT is smoother and all that, and unfortunately it still has that sandpaper feel.  Went back to thick doubleshot ABS!
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Dubsgalore on Tue, 03 June 2014, 18:24:23
I used to think I prefer PBT until I tried some good ole shiny Cherry doubleshots.  It was love at the first type, so to speak.  It ruined thick PBT for me.  I have these neat dye sub PBTs from a Royal Alpha typewriter, and I had them on for a bit, having read how BSP's PBT is smoother and all that, and unfortunately it still has that sandpaper feel.  Went back to thick doubleshot ABS!

That's honestly what most people go through I think. I never got that cheap vortex or ducky pbt set early on, always stuck with my stock sets and then raindrop, so my first PBT experience was an original cherry dye sub one.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: epzy on Tue, 03 June 2014, 18:28:36
I used to think I prefer PBT until I tried some good ole shiny Cherry doubleshots.  It was love at the first type, so to speak.  It ruined thick PBT for me.  I have these neat dye sub PBTs from a Royal Alpha typewriter, and I had them on for a bit, having read how BSP's PBT is smoother and all that, and unfortunately it still has that sandpaper feel.  Went back to thick doubleshot ABS!

I guess you probably would have liked OG Cherry dyesubs. The texture isn't rough at all, no there's no 'sandpaper feel'.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 03 June 2014, 18:38:03
I used to think I prefer PBT until I tried some good ole shiny Cherry doubleshots.  It was love at the first type, so to speak.  It ruined thick PBT for me.  I have these neat dye sub PBTs from a Royal Alpha typewriter, and I had them on for a bit, having read how BSP's PBT is smoother and all that, and unfortunately it still has that sandpaper feel.  Went back to thick doubleshot ABS!

That's honestly what most people go through I think. I never got that cheap vortex or ducky pbt set early on, always stuck with my stock sets and then raindrop, so my first PBT experience was an original cherry dye sub one.

Would original Cherry dyesub be similar to BSP typewriter caps or much smoother?  BSP I have is smoother than IMSTO's ABS or Vortex ABS, but still not ABS-smooth.  And by ABS-smooth, I mean shiny ABS.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 03 June 2014, 18:47:21
ABS doubleshots always "look" good color-wise, but shiny keys feel greasy and horrible to me.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 03 June 2014, 18:50:08
ABS doubleshots always "look" good color-wise, but shiny keys feel greasy and horrible to me.

Yes, but that's precisely what I like :)  I'm pretty sure you can't get even the smoothest Cherry PBT to feel as smooth as shiny GMK/Cherry doubleshots  ;)  That's what I like!  I used to be bothered by any shine, but now I don't even care--typing experience > some shine!
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 03 June 2014, 18:53:03
I used to think I prefer PBT until I tried some good ole shiny Cherry doubleshots.  It was love at the first type, so to speak.  It ruined thick PBT for me.  I have these neat dye sub PBTs from a Royal Alpha typewriter, and I had them on for a bit, having read how BSP's PBT is smoother and all that, and unfortunately it still has that sandpaper feel.  Went back to thick doubleshot ABS!

That's honestly what most people go through I think. I never got that cheap vortex or ducky pbt set early on, always stuck with my stock sets and then raindrop, so my first PBT experience was an original cherry dye sub one.

Would original Cherry dyesub be similar to BSP typewriter caps or much smoother?  BSP I have is smoother than IMSTO's ABS or Vortex ABS, but still not ABS-smooth.  And by ABS-smooth, I mean shiny ABS.

My OG dyesubs are smooth with just a touch of roughness. Makes them feel really good. They aren't smooth like shiny ABS though
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Dubsgalore on Tue, 03 June 2014, 19:19:06
Would original Cherry dyesub be similar to BSP typewriter caps or much smoother?  BSP I have is smoother than IMSTO's ABS or Vortex ABS, but still not ABS-smooth.  And by ABS-smooth, I mean shiny ABS.

I've got typewriter and OG subs..ill do a comparison lol
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: daerid on Tue, 03 June 2014, 19:40:59
ABS doubleshots always "look" good color-wise, but shiny keys feel greasy and horrible to me.


This. It always makes me feel like I have something on my fingers :-\

You guys can keep your ABS. Vintage or otherwise :-P
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Candyflip on Tue, 03 June 2014, 20:02:27
New abs vs new pbt, abs wins. Abs shines way faster though and yes I get the greasy feeling too.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 03 June 2014, 20:03:46
IMO problem with shiny caps is, unless you're hands are 100% clean and/or you don't mind oily surfaces, it feels all yucky and you want to go clean it
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 03 June 2014, 20:08:44
It's all in your head :). Rougher surfaces collect more sweat, grime, and dust--they just conceal it better by not feeling greasy as quickly.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: GSimon on Tue, 03 June 2014, 21:02:38
Thread needs pics

(http://i.imgur.com/wzNqrYM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/m4Lskdw.jpg)

Left: Poker ii Esc Key (PBT)
Center: Authentic Cherry Red Esc (Double-Shot)
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,cherrymxkeys&pid=cds_redesc
Right: Leopold FC750R Esc Key (PBT)
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: tbc on Tue, 03 June 2014, 21:35:26
ABS *vomits*

if i wanted abs, i would jist go back to chiclet boards

*vomits twice more to feel clean after thinking of abs*
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: daerid on Wed, 04 June 2014, 01:44:51
New abs vs new pbt, abs wins. Abs shines way faster though and yes I get the greasy feeling too.

Personally disagree. I hate, hate, hate the feel of ABS caps. Love the feel of PBT.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 04 June 2014, 03:22:12
Interesting thread.

I agree about THIN OEM profile crapcaps that come on most boards.

Can't wait for the thick, doubleshot Cherry profile GMK Dolch set from Ivan's new GB to arrive, though :)

For me it's mostly about keycap weight.

I like all 3 materials if the caps are thick and good quality. POM is my favourite cap material, though. It's denser than the others, so it makes for heavy caps, with an interesting teflon-like texture that I don't find greasy like smooth ABS (slick, but not greasy). I don't really like the "dry", ceramic-like feeling of some PBT caps, but "smooth" is alright.

The white medium thickness PBT caps (KeyCool) I got from BangGood (which I'm using on my other daily driver board) are rough and sandpaperish and collect dirt easily, although they look nice. The texture still hasn't worn smooth enough for my taste, so I'm probably going to swap them for the thick Black on Black PBT caps from Ivan's GB when those arrive. If I still don't like the feel by the time the Dolch sets arrive, I'll put Dolch on both my boards :)
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Lu_e on Wed, 04 June 2014, 19:05:05
Just say no to ABS

I prefer the sandpaper feel, and want as much texture for as long as possible personally.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 04 June 2014, 19:33:35
I like all 3 materials if the caps are thick and good quality. POM is my favourite cap material, though. It's denser than the others, so it makes for heavy caps, with an interesting teflon-like texture that I don't find greasy like smooth ABS (slick, but not greasy). I don't really like the "dry", ceramic-like feeling of some PBT caps, but "smooth" is alright.

The white medium thickness PBT caps (KeyCool) I got from BangGood (which I'm using on my other daily driver board) are rough and sandpaperish and collect dirt easily, although they look nice. The texture still hasn't worn smooth enough for my taste, so I'm probably going to swap them for the thick Black on Black PBT caps from Ivan's GB when those arrive. If I still don't like the feel by the time the Dolch sets arrive, I'll put Dolch on both my boards :)

That's interesting how subjective that is about POM.  I personally really got that "sweaty" feeling from trying out someone's keyboard with clean POM keycaps on them (thick Cherry profile POM)--didn't like it at all.  Felt cool and slick.  But I love shiny smooth GMK ABS.  Same experience with light-toned PBT keycaps looking dusty quickly.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: strict on Wed, 04 June 2014, 19:51:44
Just say no to ABS

I prefer the sandpaper feel, and want as much texture for as long as possible personally.

Could not agree more. I have the banggood pbt's on my work keyboard (Filco) and I look forward everyday just before I sit down to typing on their rough, ceramic texture. I want the roughest, grittiest PBT's out there. If I could find something with a rougher texture than these I would buy them up in a heart beat.

One of my coworkers has a cheap dell rubber dome with keys so shiny they look like glass. I seriously cringe every time I see it thinking about how slick and greasy they must feel.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: dante on Wed, 04 June 2014, 20:15:56
I like all 3 materials if the caps are thick and good quality. POM is my favourite cap material, though. It's denser than the others, so it makes for heavy caps, with an interesting teflon-like texture that I don't find greasy like smooth ABS (slick, but not greasy). I don't really like the "dry", ceramic-like feeling of some PBT caps, but "smooth" is alright.

The white medium thickness PBT caps (KeyCool) I got from BangGood (which I'm using on my other daily driver board) are rough and sandpaperish and collect dirt easily, although they look nice. The texture still hasn't worn smooth enough for my taste, so I'm probably going to swap them for the thick Black on Black PBT caps from Ivan's GB when those arrive. If I still don't like the feel by the time the Dolch sets arrive, I'll put Dolch on both my boards :)

That's interesting how subjective that is about POM.  I personally really got that "sweaty" feeling from trying out someone's keyboard with clean POM keycaps on them (thick Cherry profile POM)--didn't like it at all.  Felt cool and slick.  But I love shiny smooth GMK ABS.  Same experience with light-toned PBT keycaps looking dusty quickly.

I think your description of POM is spot on.  They G80-3000/Keycool felt a little dryer but the G80-11900 really felt oily - which I really liked - yes I know I'm in the minority :D
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: ferociousfingerings on Wed, 04 June 2014, 21:08:14
It's all in your head :). Rougher surfaces collect more sweat, grime, and dust--they just conceal it better by not feeling greasy as quickly.

That rougher surface is indeed collecting more grime; which means it's NOT on your fingers, because it has been "collected" by the rough surface of the keycap (which you are still touching anyway...).

The smooth keys allow that same grime to remain on your fingers, rather than sanding it off for you automatically as you type. It then collects on the edges of the cap surface, and at the edges of your fingertip-pad/contact point, and absorbs into your pores... which is why it "feels like there's crap on your fingers." There is! (but you're still touching that icky grime, regardless of whether the surface is rough or smooth!)

If you don't sand the surface, the impurities remain on said surface. If you do sand the surface, the impurities "collect" within the grit of the roughness.

You're still touching ickiness with ickified fingers, regardless.

You should thoroughly clean every contact point in your entire environment, including (especially) your PC peripherals, and then insist on thoroughly washing/scrubbing your hands, prior to using your interface devices. Stuff will still get gunked up, gradually... but you can significantly mitigate and minimize this, which, A) keeps your stuff un-yucky longer, and B) extends/prolongs your enjoyment of your various contact surfaces, while, C) also minimizing the potential vectors for pathogens to be spread among contact-point-sharing individuals.

This is why i despise people who refuse to properly wash their hands after taking a dump, or having a crotch-scratch-fest: they then proceed to invisibly contaminate EVERY shared contact point (doorknobs, fridge handles, game controllers, TV remotes, etc.), which then requires me to be inevitably exposed to whatever germs they've acquired elsewhere, through such careless and unhygienic practices. I can't run around cleaning up after everyone all the time. I have things to do; even when i don't have things to do!


But yeah. I'll just mention Deck's nearly indestructible backlit caps. People seem to hate the font/legends, but i don't see it as a bad thing; just different. Nothing inherently wrong with "different" (unless in the context of social conditioning, and the fact that herd-think tends to cause people to fear and reject anything perceived as "different;" which i don't THINK should apply to keycaps... but probably kinda does, because that's how people are).
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: 00zeRO on Wed, 04 June 2014, 22:18:16
IT'S LIKE SEX ON MY FINGERTIPS.

Very well said!

+1
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 05 June 2014, 00:52:54
It's all in your head :). Rougher surfaces collect more sweat, grime, and dust--they just conceal it better by not feeling greasy as quickly.

That rougher surface is indeed collecting more grime; which means it's NOT on your fingers, because it has been "collected" by the rough surface of the keycap (which you are still touching anyway...).

The smooth keys allow that same grime to remain on your fingers, rather than sanding it off for you automatically as you type. It then collects on the edges of the cap surface, and at the edges of your fingertip-pad/contact point, and absorbs into your pores... which is why it "feels like there's crap on your fingers." There is! (but you're still touching that icky grime, regardless of whether the surface is rough or smooth!)

If you don't sand the surface, the impurities remain on said surface. If you do sand the surface, the impurities "collect" within the grit of the roughness.

You're still touching ickiness with ickified fingers, regardless.

You should thoroughly clean every contact point in your entire environment, including (especially) your PC peripherals, and then insist on thoroughly washing/scrubbing your hands, prior to using your interface devices. Stuff will still get gunked up, gradually... but you can significantly mitigate and minimize this, which, A) keeps your stuff un-yucky longer, and B) extends/prolongs your enjoyment of your various contact surfaces, while, C) also minimizing the potential vectors for pathogens to be spread among contact-point-sharing individuals.

This is why i despise people who refuse to properly wash their hands after taking a dump, or having a crotch-scratch-fest: they then proceed to invisibly contaminate EVERY shared contact point (doorknobs, fridge handles, game controllers, TV remotes, etc.), which then requires me to be inevitably exposed to whatever germs they've acquired elsewhere, through such careless and unhygienic practices. I can't run around cleaning up after everyone all the time. I have things to do; even when i don't have things to do!


But yeah. I'll just mention Deck's nearly indestructible backlit caps. People seem to hate the font/legends, but i don't see it as a bad thing; just different. Nothing inherently wrong with "different" (unless in the context of social conditioning, and the fact that herd-think tends to cause people to fear and reject anything perceived as "different;" which i don't THINK should apply to keycaps... but probably kinda does, because that's how people are).

That's a nice summary.  It's generally easier to clean smooth caps by wiping the surface frequently--PBT caps require more frequent soaking because of the roughness.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: ideus on Thu, 05 June 2014, 08:25:56
DS ABS Cherry caps feel even better when they get that shiny texture. It is very easy to type on them, and the greasy feeling help to "grip" on the caps.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 05 June 2014, 08:38:42
DS ABS Cherry caps feel even better when they get that shiny texture. It is very easy to type on them, and the greasy feeling help to "grip" on the caps.

This thread really shows how personal and individual keycap feel is. It's awesome we have such variety available to us, although I think we could get rid of thin ABS OEM profile caps altogether and noone would complain.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: ideus on Thu, 05 June 2014, 08:41:57
DS ABS Cherry caps feel even better when they get that shiny texture. It is very easy to type on them, and the greasy feeling help to "grip" on the caps.

This thread really shows how personal and individual keycap feel is. It's awesome we have such variety available to us, although I think we could get rid of thin ABS OEM profile caps altogether and noone would complain.

How someone may argue with such wise remarks... :thumb:
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 05 June 2014, 08:43:52
DS ABS Cherry caps feel even better when they get that shiny texture. It is very easy to type on them, and the greasy feeling help to "grip" on the caps.

This thread really shows how personal and individual keycap feel is. It's awesome we have such variety available to us, although I think we could get rid of thin ABS OEM profile caps altogether and noone would complain.

I've seen a few people who say for clicky switches they prefer the thin ABS OEM caps but I don't like either of those things :D :))
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sat, 07 June 2014, 03:44:26
PBT > POM > ABS
Rough texture > Fine texture > No texture
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: ceflame on Sat, 07 June 2014, 06:15:27
PBT > POM > ABS
Rough texture > Fine texture > No texture

I'm actually like the complete opposite. I've never tried POM, but the rough texture from Vortex's PBT Doubleshots starts to hurt my hands after a while (using blues).
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 07 June 2014, 10:00:57
i don't find the texture to be "important".

abs shiny will stick a bit sometimes, during humid weather / hot weather / serious gaming time/   but it's really not enough that I could blame them for performance drops..

(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/hehe-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862507)

I prefer the thick pbt only because the stem is well made/ smooth/ and looser, which makes the keytravel down very smooth.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sat, 07 June 2014, 14:52:46
For me the texture is more a "comfort" thing and not about performance...
The sticky feel of non textured caps makes me think the caps are dirty/filthy.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 07 June 2014, 14:54:59
For me the texture is more a "comfort" thing and not about performance...
The sticky feel of non textured caps makes me think the caps are dirty/filthy.

"Grippy" not "sticky." ;)
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: archer on Tue, 10 June 2014, 10:57:07
Does the texture on a SP ABS key wear down into a shiny, smooth surface quickly? I own a couple SP sets, but haven't used them enough to have any shine.

And my 2c for this texture debate is that generally, PBT has a better texture on it compared to ABS. The one exception to this rule: GMK ABS. I love the way GMK ABS feels over any other keycap material.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: JustDownloadMoreRAM on Tue, 10 June 2014, 14:21:10


Just say no to ABS

I prefer the sandpaper feel, and want as much texture for as long as possible personally.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I love no shine and the PBT feels.
DS ABS Cherry caps feel even better when they get that shiny texture. It is very easy to type on them, and the greasy feeling help to "grip" on the caps.
The shiny, greasy texture is the exact reason I'm still on the fence about the current GMK group buy. I have some GMK keys, but seeing (and having to use) glass-smooth-with-finger-gunk-surround ABS keys
 at work is stopping me from spending that much on a keycap set.

Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: laffindude on Thu, 12 June 2014, 02:07:46
You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.

This. ABS = awesome.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: noisyturtle on Thu, 12 June 2014, 05:49:42
ABS aren't so bad. It's just the thin or poorly manufactured ones give others a bad rap. Plus it's a pain in the butt to find a decent DS PBT set now a days (still.)
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 12 June 2014, 10:03:54
A lot of people are neglecting the fact that PBT will still develop a shine. It just takes a lot longer than it does with ABS caps.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Danule on Sat, 14 June 2014, 11:52:42
A lot of people are neglecting the fact that PBT will still develop a shine. It just takes a lot longer than it does with ABS caps.

Very true.  I have had my realforce for a little over a year now and it is beginning to develop shine on some of the most used keys.

I like both PBT and ABS.  PBT can be a bit harsh on fingers as it is a harder plastic,  But abs can tend to stick to your fingers if they get sweaty.  Depends on what you are into.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 16 June 2014, 02:41:28
A lot of people are neglecting the fact that PBT will still develop a shine. It just takes a lot longer than it does with ABS caps.

Very true.  I have had my realforce for a little over a year now and it is beginning to develop shine on some of the most used keys.

I like both PBT and ABS.  PBT can be a bit harsh on fingers as it is a harder plastic,  But abs can tend to stick to your fingers if they get sweaty.  Depends on what you are into.

POM.... Just go POM....

No hardness, no stick... Fast typing, good feeling. Much happiness. Wow.

 ;)

I like 'em all if the caps are good quality and nice profile.

i don't find the texture to be "important".

abs shiny will stick a bit sometimes, during humid weather / hot weather / serious gaming time/   but it's really not enough that I could blame them for performance drops..

Show Image
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/hehe-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862507)


I prefer the thick pbt only because the stem is well made/ smooth/ and looser, which makes the keytravel down very smooth.

What are you talking about? Stem area accuracy doesn't affect the switch feel at all since there is no moving contact between keycap and switch.... (unless they're REALLY badly made and the stem area is too large and contacts the upper switch housing, but I have yet to use a cap that does that).
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Justintoxicated on Mon, 16 June 2014, 19:32:37
Meh I really like the quality of the doubleshot ABS keycaps on my blackbird because the LED lighting emits out of the letters perfectly and gives them a a very nice look, they feel good and type really well too.  I think it must be the extra thickness that helps them out. However I don't mind the texture of PBT on the FC660C either, they are both very nice IMO. 

Now cheapo ABS keycaps I do not like. Thin, printed, or painted keycaps just don't have the same feel or look!
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Danule on Tue, 17 June 2014, 09:16:51
Currently i have yet to try pom. But my favorite so far is cherry profile doubleshot abs. Pbt is nice but a bit harsh.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 17 June 2014, 12:05:55
Currently i have yet to try pom. But my favorite so far is cherry profile doubleshot abs. Pbt is nice but a bit harsh.

Bro, do you even Lift?
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: fuzzybaffy on Fri, 27 June 2014, 00:29:00
Gotta agree with the OP. For a bit I was actually using a set of ABS caps from WASDKeyboards instead of a set of dye-sub PBTs from Imsto, because I wanted caps in OEM profile (PBTs from Imsto are Cherry profile). Then after a while I just got tired of the texture of the ABS keys - it was like wearing a pair of really uncomfortable shoes, functional but just really uncomfortable - and then switched back to the PBTs from Imsto.

It was an instant improvement, and it made me wonder why I went with the ABS caps from WASD for the sake of OEM profile, to begin with. :( Maybe I just wanted to test them out, and/or thought I would get used to the different texture of ABS.

So, yea... PBT = 1,000,000x better than ABS. IMO, of course.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: bueller on Fri, 27 June 2014, 00:50:09
Gotta agree with the OP. For a bit I was actually using a set of ABS caps from WASDKeyboards instead of a set of dye-sub PBTs from Imsto, because I wanted caps in OEM profile (PBTs from Imsto are Cherry profile). Then after a while I just got tired of the texture of the ABS keys - it was like wearing a pair of really uncomfortable shoes, functional but just really uncomfortable - and then switched back to the PBTs from Imsto.

It was an instant improvement, and it made me wonder why I went with the ABS caps from WASD for the sake of OEM profile, to begin with. :( Maybe I just wanted to test them out, and/or thought I would get used to the different texture of ABS.

So, yea... PBT = 1,000,000x better than ABS. IMO, of course.

Don't let that turn you off ABS all together, WASD caps are probably the nastiest ones available IMHO. Check out a GMK set and you'll see what all the fuss is about.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: fuzzybaffy on Fri, 27 June 2014, 01:02:18
Gotta agree with the OP. For a bit I was actually using a set of ABS caps from WASDKeyboards instead of a set of dye-sub PBTs from Imsto, because I wanted caps in OEM profile (PBTs from Imsto are Cherry profile). Then after a while I just got tired of the texture of the ABS keys - it was like wearing a pair of really uncomfortable shoes, functional but just really uncomfortable - and then switched back to the PBTs from Imsto.

It was an instant improvement, and it made me wonder why I went with the ABS caps from WASD for the sake of OEM profile, to begin with. :( Maybe I just wanted to test them out, and/or thought I would get used to the different texture of ABS.

So, yea... PBT = 1,000,000x better than ABS. IMO, of course.

Don't let that turn you off ABS all together, WASD caps are probably the nastiest ones available IMHO. Check out a GMK set and you'll see what all the fuss is about.

True. I should have mentioned that not all ABS are the same. Perhaps I will check out a GMK set one day! Thanks for the FYI.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: SpecTP on Tue, 01 July 2014, 10:22:17
I bought some WASD key caps from WASDkeyboards.com and they lasted about 2 months.  All the lettering have worn off.  Are there better options out there for a heavy gamer like me?
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: tbc on Tue, 01 July 2014, 15:57:08
anything is better than WASD.

you're going to want to checkout taihao keysets.  but i'm pretty sure ypu have to buy the whole set, not just wasd.

keypop.net
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 02 July 2014, 04:58:28
To add some fuel to the fire I have some Cherry profile PBT caps which I really don't like at all... They came on a Cherry G80-3000LCQEU-0 I recently purchased. I prefer my SP ABS caps by a good margin.

They're really thin and cheap-feeling. It's really more about the weight of the caps for me, it seems. The heavier doubleshot SP keycaps feel a lot better than the light lasered PBT Cherry caps, even though I prefer the Cherry profile to the SP DCS profile.

Current favourite caps are medium thickness OEM profile POM blanks, but I am currently using some SP ABS (Nostalgia set) since I need the legends and I suspect the GMK thick ABS caps I have ordered will take the throne when they arrive.

The new Vortex doubleshot PBT caps look very interesting, too. Thick doubleshot PBT with nice fonts and very Cherry-esque profile. There is now also a WoB set in addition to the colour sets: http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=774
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: quadibloc on Thu, 03 July 2014, 19:40:57
PBT and POM may be harder than ABS, which does mean that they're better, but I find ABS - at least if the legends are achieved by double-shot molding - quite adequate.

Another hard plastic - but, sadly, not suited either to double-shot molding or to a range of colors - is Bakelite. I think that's what the square keys on an old Flexowriter are made from...

A really hard material - and one which would protect the legends on the keys, thus eliminating the need for double-shot molding - would be some type of glass, if one were thinking of getting really fancy. But that has the drawback of having to wipe oil from one's fingers off the keys all the time, even if it would wipe off easily.

Marble or polished granite, I think, we will have to leave out of consideration.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: minho on Thu, 03 July 2014, 23:09:36
Marble or polished granite, I think, we will have to leave out of consideration.

All you bored DIY-ers out there, I think we found you a new project.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: nukec on Sat, 05 July 2014, 03:49:34
So I just put a set of Vortex thick white on black DS PBT caps on my Code keyboard, and HOLY **** IT'S LIKE SEX ON MY FINGERTIPS. How does anybody stand ABS keycaps? They just feel so, ugh... flimsy and fake and just stupid.

Stupid ABS and their stupid feeling stupid keycaps.

</rant>

Just had to get that off my chest.

I agree with this ranter :D
Check my new baby http://imgur.com/a/Abfi6

DSA PBT caps. I am not sure waiting for DCS profile too, but default was DCS, still don't know what feels beter between those 2 profiles :) I think you have more control with DCS.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: daerid on Mon, 07 July 2014, 12:50:29
I couldn't really do DSA. I really, really wanted to because I love the way they look. But I had major accuracy problems and had to go back to DCS.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Riptide on Tue, 08 July 2014, 07:28:03
You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.

excuse me, self confessed noob here... you got me curious... What are GMK/Cherry thick ABS keys are? Looking for a lime green keycaps maybe i could get them in that quality..
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: absyrd on Tue, 08 July 2014, 07:38:10
You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.

excuse me, self confessed noob here... you got me curious... What are GMK/Cherry thick ABS keys are? Looking for a lime green keycaps maybe i could get them in that quality..

GMK has a nice green, but you'd have to wait on a massive interest check then group buy to go through...
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Riptide on Tue, 08 July 2014, 08:18:17
You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.

excuse me, self confessed noob here... you got me curious... What are GMK/Cherry thick ABS keys are? Looking for a lime green keycaps maybe i could get them in that quality..

GMK has a nice green, but you'd have to wait on a massive interest check then group buy to go through...

you cant just buy it? :(
can you send a link? thanx!
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 08 July 2014, 17:24:25
You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.

excuse me, self confessed noob here... you got me curious... What are GMK/Cherry thick ABS keys are? Looking for a lime green keycaps maybe i could get them in that quality..

GMK has a nice green, but you'd have to wait on a massive interest check then group buy to go through...

you cant just buy it? :(
can you send a link? thanx!

GMK is a German commercial keycap manufacturer, and need hundreds of orders for keycap sets before they will start making them.  Usually they need thousands of orders for one set, but Ivan was able to negotiate with them for a lower MOQ for GH.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: taylordcraig on Sun, 13 July 2014, 01:59:23
QUOTE FROM SKYPE
Quote
[9:49:33 PM] taylor craig: i thought i loved pbt raw texture but this buttery smooth feeling of penumbra is amazing...
[11:05:39 PM] taylor craig: okay actually typing on it feels kinda weird. just poking at it felt really nice though
[11:05:40 PM] taylor craig: idk its kinda nice
[11:05:44 PM] taylor craig: fk
[11:06:11 PM] taylor craig:  :-\
[11:50:57 PM] taylor craig: I'm in love with Penumbra.
[11:50:59 PM] taylor craig: Please help.
[11:51:14 PM] *: Deal with it :P
[11:51:55 PM] taylor craig: HOW DOES THIS ABS GARBAGE FEEL SO GOOD
[11:51:55 PM] *: Comment in daerids thread

Here I am.
To tell you thick ABS is so delicious.
At least SP's SA profile.
I have a GMK Dolch set coming.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: CaptLock on Mon, 14 July 2014, 09:16:00
I;ve only tried ABS
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 14 July 2014, 17:04:10
I;ve only tried ABS

You don't know what you're missing ;)
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: myrddin on Mon, 14 July 2014, 20:17:22
I have abs and pbt, really the only difference that I care about is how badly PBT warps.

Personally, I would be happy if the keys came with a completely smooth surface to begin with, I don't need help gripping them, and it isn't like the surface affects my ability to type.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 15 July 2014, 16:10:00
Honestly POM are pure perfection.  It baffles me that they never caught on.

Why? What's so awesome about POM? (zero experience with POM, only ABS/PBT)
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Crazyhendrix on Sun, 27 July 2014, 05:45:46
I actually like the feel of smooth ABS. I just bought a poker ii---like an hour ago. I like it, but the texture on the keycaps compared to my clicky QFS is somewhat distracting. Maybe it's cause I prefer typing on the Cherry MX green more than browns. Gotta keep the peace at home in the night though.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Daspartic on Sun, 27 July 2014, 05:56:19
I like ABS, but give me PBT all day err day.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Oobly on Sun, 27 July 2014, 10:00:39
Honestly POM are pure perfection.  It baffles me that they never caught on.

Why? What's so awesome about POM? (zero experience with POM, only ABS/PBT)

It's the densest keycap material, so it dampens high frequency sounds well and makes for the heaviest caps. IMHO this makes them feel higher quality than other materials. Also, my fingers glide over them so nicely, due to the surface feeling of the material regardless of actual surface texturing. It's almost like teflon, but doesn't ever feel "sticky" like smooth ABS.

It's also slightly flexible, so has good dampening properties, reduces bottom-out shock and changes the release noise to be less harsh.

POM just rocks.

@Crazyhendrix: If you like Greens, I think you'd prefer Clears to Browns. More tactile and stronger springs.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: GSimon on Sun, 27 July 2014, 10:49:45
I actually like the feel of smooth ABS. I just bought a poker ii---like an hour ago. I like it, but the texture on the keycaps compared to my clicky QFS is somewhat distracting. Maybe it's cause I prefer typing on the Cherry MX green more than browns. Gotta keep the peace at home in the night though.

The Poker is not the best representative for PBT in terms of texture because the legends are top printed, so you're feeling that in addition to the PBT cap.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 27 July 2014, 10:52:57
The problem for me is finding ISO sets of the DS/PBT sets I like. I bought a vortex blue/white DS set from MK.com but no ISO :( I can't seem to find decent sets on a regular basis.

Admittedly I only have one ISO board, but it's also the only one with WASD caps. Thats why I have them, because it was the easiest place to find an ISO set.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Oobly on Sun, 27 July 2014, 14:10:57
The problem for me is finding ISO sets of the DS/PBT sets I like. I bought a vortex blue/white DS set from MK.com but no ISO :( I can't seem to find decent sets on a regular basis.

Admittedly I only have one ISO board, but it's also the only one with WASD caps. Thats why I have them, because it was the easiest place to find an ISO set.

If you can settle for dyesub thick PBT you could get a Ducky ISO set for it... They're also OEM profile, but at least they're MUCH nicer than WASD caps.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Crazyhendrix on Sun, 27 July 2014, 14:13:48
@Crazyhendrix: If you like Greens, I think you'd prefer Clears to Browns. More tactile and stronger springs.

I did read up on the Clears. However, I have no intentions of either soldering Clears onto a 60% KB. Besides, getting an off the rack keyboard with the 60% form-factor is kinda remote atm. So, I settled for the Browns---which I did use for like 2 weeks. It isn't bad. I could type faster with it than the Greens, but with more typos. :p

@GSimon: I thought about the legends contributing to the roughness of the keycaps. I'm not dissing PBTs. In fact, the thickness of the caps on the Poker seem to muffle the bottoming out 'thunk' sound compared to thin ABS on the QFS. I'm easily satisfied. PBT or abs, as long as the switches are nice, the form factor puts the mouse nearer to my hands, I'm good. It's better than using a rubber dome for the matter.

tl;dr version: I like smooth ABS just a little more than PBT. I could live with either.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: tbc on Mon, 28 July 2014, 01:47:31
they have poker II with clears on massdrop.  they just finished, but this is their second in a month i believe.  it'll most likely be back many times over.

the era of no 60% clear boards is gone :D
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Crazyhendrix on Mon, 28 July 2014, 04:21:05
they have poker II with clears on massdrop.  they just finished, but this is their second in a month i believe.  it'll most likely be back many times over.

the era of no 60% clear boards is gone :D

NOOOOooo! I don't need another keyboard! I would love to try the clears though.... must fight the temptation.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Hitcha on Fri, 01 August 2014, 13:59:02
After your try PBT caps, you're spoiled for life. Really hard to go back to zero texture ABS.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Skull_Angel on Sun, 03 August 2014, 09:55:31
After your try Cherry POM caps, you're spoiled for life. Really hard to go back to anything else.

Ftfy  ;D
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Oobly on Sun, 03 August 2014, 15:06:41
After your try Cherry POM caps, you're spoiled for life. Really hard to go back to anything else.

Ftfy  ;D

Oobly likes this. Still have yet to find a switch / keycap combo that feels better to me than trampoline modded 62g ErgoClears with POM caps.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: AuRinBei on Sun, 03 August 2014, 15:19:39
After your try Cherry POM caps, you're spoiled for life. Really hard to go back to anything else.

Ftfy  ;D

What POM have you used that is that super incredible? I don't think I've ever seen thick POM. I use rainbow jellies, and while they are better than ABS, they feel very similar to my thick vortex PBT in terms of texture. I prefer the Vortex though because they much thicker and make a better sound.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Skull_Angel on Sun, 03 August 2014, 16:36:34
After your try Cherry POM caps, you're spoiled for life. Really hard to go back to anything else.

Ftfy  ;D

What POM have you used that is that super incredible? I don't think I've ever seen thick POM. I use rainbow jellies, and while they are better than ABS, they feel very similar to my thick vortex PBT in terms of texture. I prefer the Vortex though because they much thicker and make a better sound.

I bought an alpha set off a Cherry G81 from Signature Plastics (I forget the story behind why they have them) and they feel amazing. They may be laser etched, but that's pretty easily overlooked by the fact that they're thick and Cherry profile (not to mention POM  ;D ), I'd be using them now if I couldn't get over the double-shot Skull Squadron DSA set I picked up.

I also have a set of OEM profile POM from a PLU MLG-3000-NKRO. They're thin caps, but still feel heftier then most standard stock ABS, the texture on them isn't as great as that of the Cherry POM caps either, imo (the Cherry POM also have less shine than the PLU caps when new).

edit; I haven't checked out Vortex's caps so I can't make any comparisons there, sorry.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 04 August 2014, 02:41:17
After your try Cherry POM caps, you're spoiled for life. Really hard to go back to anything else.

Ftfy  ;D

What POM have you used that is that super incredible? I don't think I've ever seen thick POM. I use rainbow jellies, and while they are better than ABS, they feel very similar to my thick vortex PBT in terms of texture. I prefer the Vortex though because they much thicker and make a better sound.

Genuine Cherry POM lasered caps (from a G81-3000). Unfortunately, it's alphas only (spacebar, caps lock, etc are not compatible with most ANSI boards). I also have some Keycool POM blanks which feel very good to me (probably very similar to your rainbow set), even though they're OEM profile and only medium thickness.

Really hoping for Ivan to run a thick POM group buy soon, maybe through PLUM. He's using them for the Pitch Black thick PBT Cherry profile sets. Maybe once the GMK Dolch GB is over.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: limitz on Mon, 04 August 2014, 12:58:24
Lol, this thread is the definition of a first world problem.

I have SP ABS, I have GMK ABS, and I have Vortex PBT. They all have their different feels, but in no universe would I rant about hating "ABS so much."
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: GSimon on Mon, 04 August 2014, 13:45:14
Lol, this thread is the definition of a first world problem.

I have SP ABS, I have GMK ABS, and I have Vortex PBT. They all have their different feels, but in no universe would I rant about hating "ABS so much."

This lol. It's like those who say "omg I've tried every switch, blues, clears, browns...none of them feel right to me!". I think there's a line between having a certain preference and being overly critical, many seem to cross that line.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Karura on Sun, 10 August 2014, 08:28:19
Once you go PBT, you never go back.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Novus on Sun, 10 August 2014, 15:23:02
ABS is utter ****.
PBT all night long
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Grim Fandango on Sun, 10 August 2014, 17:47:35
I actually slightly prefer ABS.

Most available PBT caps have a certain roughness or grainyness to the surface that I do not like over the smooth surface of most ABS keycaps. Though I realize this is due to the production process and not the material. I also do not really like how the keycaps feel as though they are made of a harder and less pliable material. Hard to explain that one, but you can feel it when you use the keycaps.

That said, I still use PBT caps on my keyboards
-So that they do not change color (white)
-So they develop less "shine" (black)

But I could get by on either. I do not find the differences between how they feel as significant as some others do.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Hyde on Wed, 20 August 2014, 17:31:15
I actually slightly prefer ABS.

Most available PBT caps have a certain roughness or grainyness to the surface that I do not like over the smooth surface of most ABS keycaps. Though I realize this is due to the production process and not the material. I also do not really like how the keycaps feel as though they are made of a harder and less pliable material. Hard to explain that one, but you can feel it when you use the keycaps.

That said, I still use PBT caps on my keyboards
-So that they do not change color (white)
-So they develop less "shine" (black)

But I could get by on either. I do not find the differences between how they feel as significant as some others do.


I actually totally agree with this.  Sometimes PBT feels too hard, but I do like the fact that they last a bit longer.

Rumor says POM is the answer but I've yet to tried it.  :(
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 20 August 2014, 18:11:23
POM is really really smooth

it's like ABS but even smoother
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: GL1TCH3D on Wed, 20 August 2014, 23:12:51
I absolutely love the thick PBT on my Realforce 89s >.<
Though not overly enjoying the PBT keycaps on my poker 2
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: ajx on Thu, 21 August 2014, 04:06:34
I actually slightly prefer ABS.

Most available PBT caps have a certain roughness or grainyness to the surface that I do not like over the smooth surface of most ABS keycaps. Though I realize this is due to the production process and not the material. I also do not really like how the keycaps feel as though they are made of a harder and less pliable material. Hard to explain that one, but you can feel it when you use the keycaps.

That said, I still use PBT caps on my keyboards
-So that they do not change color (white)
-So they develop less "shine" (black)

But I could get by on either. I do not find the differences between how they feel as significant as some others do.

i fully agree with you, PBT has certain roughness / graininess that feels not as smooth as ABS.
i prefer ABS overall but legend wearing off seems to be an issue on most of ABS keycaps.
Crap :(
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: DanielT on Thu, 21 August 2014, 06:34:58
I like both, each has pros and cons:
ABS: softer to the touch, double shot legends that are crisp and last forever. Some ABS are crap, just thin plastic, but SP DSA is really nice, not to mention GMK, with that really close to perfection Cherry profile and thick ABS.
PBT: You can dye sub those, that means any cool legend you can design, any font you want. Never develop shine, and if the PBT is thick a really nice typing experience, even with that roughness that has it's charm :D
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Lu_e on Thu, 21 August 2014, 15:52:21
^ where were the downsides to PBT?

;)
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Karura on Thu, 21 August 2014, 17:34:36
I really like the POM keycaps on my Cherry G80, they are laser etched, but I'm hoping the letters will stay.

They feel awesome. Does anyone know if they get smooth/oily/icky after a while?
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: pbtforever on Thu, 21 August 2014, 22:10:38
pbtforever!
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: DanielT on Fri, 22 August 2014, 04:11:38
^ where were the downsides to PBT?

;)
Well, double shots not available except for Vortex, but those sets are good only for standard boards and not custom ones. Banana spacebar ...
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Haidran on Thu, 28 August 2014, 02:06:08
I discovered PBT when i bought a pair of poker 2s to play around with new switches.

I have completely retired my venerable ABS covered Leopold until I have a set for it (granite PBT from massdrop).

I didn't expect the feeling would change the dynamic of the board so much, but it really does.



Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: davkol on Thu, 28 August 2014, 07:07:53
PBT *does* start to shine, but only after some rough use. The gritty feeling depends on particular keycap set; for example, the texture of IBM/Unicomp caps is very different from the texture of SP's PBT DSA.

I really like the POM keycaps on my Cherry G80, they are laser etched, but I'm hoping the letters will stay.

They feel awesome. Does anyone know if they get smooth/oily/icky after a while?
The infill will fade eventually… luckily for me, because I prefer to touch the smooth caps, not lettering. I wish I could find some blanks POM sets. For Ivan's GB I shall wait.

Shine probably isn't relevant, because POM is even more durable than PBT. You might only have to clean the caps from the skin residue that sticks especially on glossy surfaces; that's easy though, a bath with some denture tabs is more than enough about once a year IMO.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: SirPony on Fri, 29 August 2014, 17:26:33
the bad thing about those cherry pom caps is that you can feel the letter on the caps...
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: davkol on Fri, 29 August 2014, 17:31:47
Not after some use… I certainly can't feel the lettering on the home row anymore. I wish Das II was more common though and can't wait for the GB.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Oobly on Sat, 30 August 2014, 15:21:52
... I wish I could find some blanks POM sets. ...

A pity these are out of stock. I like the set of them I have even though they're only medium thickness: http://www.banggood.com/POM-87-Set-Blank-Key-Caps-Black-Keycaps-For-Cherry-MX-Keyboard-p-84081.html

This seller on Aliexpress may be able to get the 87 key blank set, but at the moment he lists a front printed set: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/new-model-keycool-87-84-PBT-keycap-cherry-mx-switch-mechanical-keyboard-caps-POM-cool-shine/1948775033.html

If Ivan does a GB for a POM set, though, that's definitely the one I'd go for. He doesn't GB poor sets, only top grade stuff :)

POM POM POM POM POM... POM all the way. Unless they're GMK doubleshots...
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: Novus on Sat, 30 August 2014, 15:28:45
Thick pbt forever.
Now i just need a few blank thick pbt modifiers and keys of varying colors.
Title: Re: [RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much
Post by: davkol on Sat, 30 August 2014, 16:41:34
... I wish I could find some blanks POM sets. ...
If Ivan does a GB for a POM set, though, that's definitely the one I'd go for. He doesn't GB poor sets, only top grade stuff :)
Yup, it's my only hope (unless SP starts selling POM SA blanks), because I've lost all belief that I'd find a Das II somewhere. I like my keycaps thick and home row dished without nibs.