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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: mouse.the.lucky.dog on Wed, 11 June 2014, 01:28:26

Title: Why are there no buckling spring clones?
Post by: mouse.the.lucky.dog on Wed, 11 June 2014, 01:28:26
The patent on those must have run out a long time ago, if the MS patents just ran out.

So why no clone makers of buckling spring keyswitches.
Also why don't other companies make buckling spring boards. I thought Unicomp sold their switches.

One thing I would really like is a completely black bucking spring keyboard with backlighting.

 
Title: Re: Why are there no buckling spring clones?
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 11 June 2014, 01:54:30
Alps also made a buckling spring switch, which was used in some keyboards for IBM in ~1990:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_buckling_spring

Anyway, the reason no one tries to make buckling spring switches now is that doing the research to figure them out and then making the tooling for them would be prohibitively expensive (in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, I’d guess, or even in the millions); there are really only a few keyswitch producers left (e.g. Cherry), and they pretty much stick to designs dating from the 1980s. Up through the 80s or even mid-90s, millions of mechanical keyboards were being produced to go with most computers sold. But at some point, cost cutting was prioritized over quality, and rubber domes are an order of magnitude cheaper to produce, so nearly all computer vendors switched to them. There’s still some market for buckling spring keyboards, but Unicomp serves that market well enough. Much of the recent interest in mechanical keyboards comes from video game players, who care more about blinking lights than keyswitch design.

Model M keyboards (like Unicomp’s) have switches that are integrated into the full keyboard; the switches aren’t modular like Cherry or Alps switches. Unicomp therefore can’t “sell their switches” to other OEMs.
Title: Re: Why are there no buckling spring clones?
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 11 June 2014, 05:39:27
Alps also made a buckling spring switch, which was used in some keyboards for IBM in ~1990:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_buckling_spring

Anyway, the reason no one tries to make buckling spring switches now is that doing the research to figure them out and then making the tooling for them would be prohibitively expensive (in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, I’d guess, or even in the millions); there are really only a few keyswitch producers left (e.g. Cherry), and they pretty much stick to designs dating from the 1980s. Up through the 80s or even mid-90s, millions of mechanical keyboards were being produced to go with most computers sold. But at some point, cost cutting was prioritized over quality, and rubber domes are an order of magnitude cheaper to produce, so nearly all computer vendors switched to them. There’s still some market for buckling spring keyboards, but Unicomp serves that market well enough. Much of the recent interest in mechanical keyboards comes from video game players, who care more about blinking lights than keyswitch design.

Model M keyboards (like Unicomp’s) have switches that are integrated into the full keyboard; the switches aren’t modular like Cherry or Alps switches. Unicomp therefore can’t “sell their switches” to other OEMs.

Tooling alone would be in the millions let alone the cost to install it.
Title: Re: Why are there no buckling spring clones?
Post by: dorkvader on Wed, 11 June 2014, 06:53:27
The patent on those must have run out a long time ago, if the MS patents just ran out.

So why no clone makers of buckling spring keyswitches.
Also why don't other companies make buckling spring boards. I thought Unicomp sold their switches.

One thing I would really like is a completely black bucking spring keyboard with backlighting.

 

There's lots actually. I'm not sure that the alps is a clone, but the infamous ya sheng certainly is.
http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/buckling-springs-can-5001cw-t2043.html
Title: Re: Why are there no buckling spring clones?
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 11 June 2014, 07:20:13
Another variant of same.

Title: Re: Why are there no buckling spring clones?
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 11 June 2014, 10:47:48
It would be interesting to check these out. I wonder what they would feel like.
Title: Re: Why are there no buckling spring clones?
Post by: BlueBär on Wed, 11 June 2014, 11:04:35
It would be interesting to check these out. I wonder what they would feel like.

Iirc most buckling spring clones are rather crappy.
Title: Re: Why are there no buckling spring clones?
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 11 June 2014, 12:59:00
It would be interesting to check these out. I wonder what they would feel like.

The "Precision" was lame in comparison to the real thing, although much more like the M2 than the M.
Title: Re: Why are there no buckling spring clones?
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 11 June 2014, 13:27:13
Alps also made a buckling spring switch, which was used in some keyboards for IBM in ~1990:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_buckling_spring

Anyway, the reason no one tries to make buckling spring switches now is that doing the research to figure them out and then making the tooling for them would be prohibitively expensive (in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, I’d guess, or even in the millions); there are really only a few keyswitch producers left (e.g. Cherry), and they pretty much stick to designs dating from the 1980s. Up through the 80s or even mid-90s, millions of mechanical keyboards were being produced to go with most computers sold. But at some point, cost cutting was prioritized over quality, and rubber domes are an order of magnitude cheaper to produce, so nearly all computer vendors switched to them. There’s still some market for buckling spring keyboards, but Unicomp serves that market well enough. Much of the recent interest in mechanical keyboards comes from video game players, who care more about blinking lights than keyswitch design.

Model M keyboards (like Unicomp’s) have switches that are integrated into the full keyboard; the switches aren’t modular like Cherry or Alps switches. Unicomp therefore can’t “sell their switches” to other OEMs.

Tooling alone would be in the millions let alone the cost to install it.

Yup.. comes down to cost..   and the fact that I'm assuming all the tooling exists in the USA..

add in the salary in USD.. and most peripheral companies decide.. No, CHINA... wh00t profit..


there also isn't any huge advantage to buckling spring..    and the name isn't quite sexy enough to  easily market. 

Title: Re: Why are there no buckling spring clones?
Post by: newchemicals on Wed, 11 June 2014, 16:29:55
Not enough demand, buckling spring keyboards cost too much and last too long.
Title: Re: Why are there no buckling spring clones?
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 11 June 2014, 17:16:56
New Unicomp is $65...

Compare that to KUL or Filco...

They do last a long time, though.
Title: Re: Why are there no buckling spring clones?
Post by: newchemicals on Wed, 11 June 2014, 18:35:50
Last I looked it was $79 for a Unicomp.