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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Quardah on Fri, 20 June 2014, 10:37:18

Title: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Quardah on Fri, 20 June 2014, 10:37:18: Hello!

I have not seen any serious topic about this mod, the silicone balls : http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=88

Basicly you fit a silicone ball into the cherry MX inner pillar to reduce its "bottom out" distance, since it'll block the switch itself.

Now here are the questions i have about these, to anyone who tried them :

1 : Will they act like a "trampoline mod" means if i bottom out they'll push back the switch (aka do they deform or they stay hard?)

2 : Will it make sound if i wobble wobble my keyboard (like a stupid marracas aka annoying as crazy in an office scenario)

3 : If i fit two in there, will the switches still register or not? What about clicky switches or Tactile switches, can it affect switches behaviors depending on which one they are, aka different effects on different switches?

4 : Can they melt or stay stuck in the switch, ruining it? I mean, after a million presse (1/50 of classic cherry lifetime) will they get deformed and unremovable in the bottom of the switch pillar cavity?

5 : Do you personally consider this mod retarded and stupid?
(YOU MUST ABSOLUTLY ANSWER THE ABOVE QUESTION NUMBER 5 IF YOU REPLY TO THIS THREAD AT LEAST ONCE)

6 : BONUS : If you have them, please tell me on what board and what switches you use them, and did it really enhance your typing experience.

Thanks
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 20 June 2014, 10:40:54: We know about this stuff..

It's just far more inconvenient than the O-rings.. So most people don't bother.. since they both perform the same task..

Thanks for the fantastic write up though.. it's great for the curious/adventurers/tinkerers

(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/pretty-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862516)
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: mashby on Fri, 20 June 2014, 10:51:44: The Silicon Balls were discussed in the Trampoline Mod thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50632.msg1264202#msg1264202), but I don't know if anyone has actually tried them yet.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Signature on Fri, 20 June 2014, 10:58:51: I did this mod but cut an o-ring to the same size and though it's pretty good atm it's also permanent. So if you are going to do this mod buy the silicone balls!
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: ideus on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:03:19: Quote from: Signature on Fri, 20 June 2014, 10:58:51
I did this mod but cut an o-ring to the same size and though it's pretty good atm it's also permanent. So if you are going to do this mod buy the silicone balls!

You may try to answer the questions on the OP for the benefit of the community.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Quardah on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:27:18: Quote from: mashby on Fri, 20 June 2014, 10:51:44
The Silicon Balls were discussed in the Trampoline Mod thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50632.msg1264202#msg1264202), but I don't know if anyone has actually tried them yet.

Yeah that's a shame no one yet got to try them. It's pretty inexpensive so might as well go for it myself and write up some review about this. Read a bit of the thread and no one seems to be stating revelent factual informations in there (no dissrespect yo), but only suppositions so far. :/

Quote from: tp4tissue on Fri, 20 June 2014, 10:40:54
We know about this stuff..

It's just far more inconvenient than the O-rings.. So most people don't bother.. since they both perform the same task..

Thanks for the fantastic write up though.. it's great for the curious/adventurers/tinkerers

Show Image
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/pretty-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862516)

inconvenient isn't an issue for me. As a kindoff-autistic being, i don't mind doing the same thing for 4 hours straight even if it's hard and delicate and boring.

I am unsure about the "same task" statement, because i am currently using orings on a board i temp-trade with a friend of mine (currently on WASD Code backlite Green MX Fullsize with stock black o-ring mod) and it seems so far that the orings doesn't really much reduce the bottom out distance, but its mainly reducing the emmited sound of the board and reduces the bottom out hit (make it less staggering, offers bottom out resistance, uknowatimsayin'?). I believe those silicon balls would significantly reduce the travel distance and it would be nice to be used with tactile switches, as it would click and then instantly bottom out, and be repropulse up if it's acting like a trampoline mod (unsure :( ).

Sorry for the wall of text, still love you.

Quote from: Signature on Fri, 20 June 2014, 10:58:51
I did this mod but cut an o-ring to the same size and though it's pretty good atm it's also permanent. So if you are going to do this mod buy the silicone balls!

Yea but o-rings are rubberish right, and act as trampolines? i would be temp to try the silicon balls if they really bring up the keys back, cause i'm a forever bottom-outer, and it would be awesome to "patch" my bad behavior.

uknowatimsayin'?

Would totally do it for a trampoline mod, almost inexpensive, and i could put two of them just to try it out.

Sorry for the mistakes and familiar language and stuff, it's friday.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:27:37: Quote from: ideus on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:03:19
Quote from: Signature on Fri, 20 June 2014, 10:58:51
I did this mod but cut an o-ring to the same size and though it's pretty good atm it's also permanent. So if you are going to do this mod buy the silicone balls!

You may try to answer the questions on the OP for the benefit of the community.

No need.. the answer is... do it if you want to explore-keyboard-fun..

but in terms of practicality.. orings is significantly less work for the same effect.

I suppose, I will answer #4, if you keep hitting any soft material, it will degrade over time..

How long is impossible to determine, too many variables,

what material

how hard is it

how tightly is it fitted in the slot

how much of the material is in there

how hard are you pressing the keys
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Quardah on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:31:16: Quote from: tp4tissue on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:27:37
Quote from: ideus on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:03:19
Quote from: Signature on Fri, 20 June 2014, 10:58:51
I did this mod but cut an o-ring to the same size and though it's pretty good atm it's also permanent. So if you are going to do this mod buy the silicone balls!

You may try to answer the questions on the OP for the benefit of the community.

No need.. the answer is... do it if you want to explore-keyboard-fun..

but in terms of practicality.. orings is significantly less work for the same effect.

I suppose, I will answer #4, if you keep hitting any soft material, it will degrade over time..

How long is impossible to determine, too many variables,

what material

how hard is it

how tightly is it fitted in the slot

how much of the material is in there

how hard are you pressing the keys

Ok, so i must consider that after a lot of typing, this mod will become permanent, or a 40-hours-pain-in-the-booty-hole job to do if i want to revert.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: exitfire401 on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:33:42: Quote from: Quardah on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:31:16
Quote from: tp4tissue on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:27:37
Quote from: ideus on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:03:19
Quote from: Signature on Fri, 20 June 2014, 10:58:51
I did this mod but cut an o-ring to the same size and though it's pretty good atm it's also permanent. So if you are going to do this mod buy the silicone balls!

You may try to answer the questions on the OP for the benefit of the community.

No need.. the answer is... do it if you want to explore-keyboard-fun..

but in terms of practicality.. orings is significantly less work for the same effect.

I suppose, I will answer #4, if you keep hitting any soft material, it will degrade over time..

How long is impossible to determine, too many variables,

what material

how hard is it

how tightly is it fitted in the slot

how much of the material is in there

how hard are you pressing the keys

Ok, so i must consider that after a lot of typing, this mod will become permanent, or a 40-hours-pain-in-the-booty-hole job to do if i want to revert.

Buy an extra switch and try it on one first. If you don't like the feel of it, then you only ruined one switch.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Signature on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:48:16: Quote from: ideus on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:03:19
Quote from: Signature on Fri, 20 June 2014, 10:58:51
I did this mod but cut an o-ring to the same size and though it's pretty good atm it's also permanent. So if you are going to do this mod buy the silicone balls!

You may try to answer the questions on the OP for the benefit of the community.
Oh I'm sorry I was short on time but I will write a bigger sum up later!
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: ideus on Fri, 20 June 2014, 12:50:42: The experts say no need for you to elaborate on your mod experience. I humble disagree, any experience may worth to be shared. I was considering to try the silicon balls, however I do not want to ruin a currently nice keyboard. I think your experience with the o-rings may give some clues on what may be expected from the balls, not the same but similar.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Signature on Fri, 20 June 2014, 13:31:05: Ok so here's my promised write up, remember that I only did this mod with O-rings and some results/ feels may vary depending on shape and material. Worth knowing is also that I used the blue o-ring from wasdkeyboards to perform this mod and I'm using blue cherry switches. Ok here we go:
1.
A trampoline mod reduces the distance for bottoming out the switch (as you said), although they dont have the "shocky" feeling when you bottom them out as a normal switch without this mod has. It's more like a mushy feeling. About the deforming I can not speak cause it may be a different material.
2.
What I know is that the material of these balls is a bit rubbery so you won't be able to join an orchestra with your keyboard, sadly! :'( Also I think that the balls has a pretty snug fit in the inner pillar so it's not much space to make noice from.
3.
According to the picture on Imstos site the balls seem to have a diameter of 1.5mm (dont know the key travel from register to bottoming out but if someone knows I can edit my post!) so if you know the keytravel you can do some simple maths to know if it will register.
4
Only time will tell but there is a pretty high risk of the balls deforming after a decent amount of keypresses. If you are doing this mod with clipping O-rings it's permanent. So think before you do it, I would recommend you trying it on a switch tester first!
5
I don't consider this mod "retarded" or "stupid", it makes the keys feel a certain way and I can't say that someone is retarded cause they feel that it feels nice. Although if you've been using this mod for a while and you want to take it away, you need to buy new switches.

Well thats a little sum up by me, I apologise for my abuse of the English grammar and would like mods to edit my reply or any other person PM me with the right grammar so it's easier to understand!
Hope you found it somewhat interesting or relevant, OP and all the people reading this thread! :)
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 20 June 2014, 18:15:18: 1: They will dampen bottoming out. Unlike with O-rings it will work with any keycap, and are not different depending on the keycap.

2: Should not affect wobble or rattle or sound on topping up.

3: The stems for the clicky Cherry MX switches have longer stems, so they will have shorter travel than other switches with the same amount of balls. Too many balls would reduce travel too much so it won't actuate...

4: Silicone don't melt as easily as some other types of rubber, but who knows about the composition. You would have to ask imsto.

5: Not at all. I've modded a couple of my keyboards with O-rings.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: okwchin on Sun, 22 June 2014, 12:08:15: I have these balls, but have not gotten to installing them, primarily because of the hours of boring work required to try it out!

On my keyboards, I would need to remove the PCB, unsolder all LEDs (and all switches on my board have LEDs), open each and every switch I want to try damping, and then reassemble. Luckily, some of my boards don't have plates. Concerns lie in the permanency of the mod, and the ability to restore to original if it proves to be undesirable.

Positives though - it will not require me to o-ring Every key set I have, and for my SP key sets - half of them are missing the appropriate support struts that allow an o-ring mod to work. So for half my keys, the o-ring mod doesn't actually do anything.

One day, but not today, I might give it a go.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 22 June 2014, 12:51:18: So, I see a lot of words here in this thread.

Has anybody actually performed this mod and evaluated it in real life?

Personally, I place a lot of value in empirical information, but very little in speculation.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Pacifist on Sun, 22 June 2014, 12:53:13: Quote from: fohat.digs on Sun, 22 June 2014, 12:51:18
So, I see a lot of words here in this thread.

Has anybody actually performed this mod and evaluated it in real life?

Personally, I place a lot of value in empirical information, but very little in speculation.

29 people have bought it, but none have actually said anything about it
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: berserkfan on Mon, 23 June 2014, 02:18:09: Quote from: fohat.digs on Sun, 22 June 2014, 12:51:18
So, I see a lot of words here in this thread.

Has anybody actually performed this mod and evaluated it in real life?

Personally, I place a lot of value in empirical information, but very little in speculation.

Not the silicon balls, but the trampoline mod was totally not cool for me. Not to mention it was hell to take out the rubber things and some of mine remain inside.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 23 June 2014, 05:55:16: I ordered some balls a while ago, but they haven't arrived yet. I will be posting my experience with them in the trampoline mod thread.

1. They are not silica gel, but rather silicone rubber, so they will be soft like the oring pieces used in the trampoline mod. However, they are a different size and shape, so will feel a little different. They will deform to fill the space under the slider "pole" more quickly, so will probably be a little softer initially, but resistance will increase more suddenly as they fill the available space (when a there is no space available to deform into, there is no possibility of more movement).

2. Soft, so no sound added.

3. Two balls will raise the "bottom out" point on tactile and linear switches by around 2.5mm (2mm diameter X2 - 0.8mm space below slider pin - squish amount = 4mm - 0.8mm - about 0.75mm overall = 2.45mm), which is above the actuation point, so I don't suggest using more than one. I estimated the squish amount, though, so it could be closer to the actuation point, perhaps even right on it, but it probably wouldn't feel nice to have to push so hard to get the switch to actuate. So I don't recommend using more than one. On clicky switches the slider pin is longer, so they will raise the bottom out point more.

4. They will not melt and deformation will be minimal as silicone rubber is quite durable, but they may well conform over time more to the shape of the hole and provide less rebound / damping.

5. I will be trying this mod when my balls arrive, so I don't consider it retarded or stupid. I suspect I will prefer the hourglass shaped "trampolines" (cut from 2mm silicone rubber sheet with a leather hole punch) which I am using on my KBT Pure with Browns, though, due to the limited squish area available to the ball shape.

6. Check the trampoline mod thread for my results once they arrive.

They are cheap, so worth trying IMHO. Try on a single loose switch first if you have one to get a basic impression of the feeling. Biggest downside of the mod is you have to open up the switches. Biggest plus side (compared to orings) is it's independent of the keycaps and gives a consistent feel across the whole board.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: skcheng on Mon, 23 June 2014, 06:25:19: I've purchased these as well but have yet to try them. Will report back soon with an opinion. Hopefully this week!!
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: CaptLock on Mon, 23 June 2014, 09:26:29: DOesn't look too retarded. :)
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: gameaholic on Mon, 23 June 2014, 10:34:43: Not what I was expecting. I thought this thread was gonna be about a new type of plastic surgery. :p
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Quardah on Mon, 23 June 2014, 11:47:41: Quote from: gameaholic on Mon, 23 June 2014, 10:34:43
Not what I was expecting. I thought this thread was gonna be about a new type of plastic surgery. :p

Lol you wanna siliconize your balls? It's not like tits, girls don't find big balls more attractive....

But maybe it would armor them against kicks and projectiles. Would be nice to have a silicon armor over my balls after all... Like a surgical jack-strap...

Lol ok this is retarded i stop.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: greath on Tue, 19 May 2015, 07:50:19: Necroing in hopes of updates...

Has anyone ordered and installed imsto's ~~salty~~ silicone balls?
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: madhias on Tue, 19 May 2015, 08:08:50: I have ordered them from imsto, and have them only installed on a few switches on my testing board - a SkiData keyboard. There I have them in use beside o-ring switches, and other mods. For me there is no big difference between o-rings and silicone balls, but o-rings are much easier to handle. Maybe silicone balls are better with caps where o-rings don't really work with.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 20 May 2015, 03:17:29: Quote from: greath on Tue, 19 May 2015, 07:50:19
Necroing in hopes of updates...

Has anyone ordered and installed imsto's ~~salty~~ silicone balls?

As I said I would, I gave my feedback in the Trampoline mod thread.

Read from here onwards: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50632.msg1386120#msg1386120

I like them a lot, although cut pieces of soft oring are still my favourite for the mod. The biggest benefit over orings is they work on all keycaps, with no difference in bottom out feel between profiles / rows, etc. I change my keycaps quite often and my favourite profile is SA, so orings are not acceptable.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: asgeirtj on Tue, 01 September 2015, 13:58:48: Just to chip in: just tried these, they reduced the travel distance too much for me. I use 1mm o-rings with cherry profile caps for anyone interested.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Phirr on Tue, 01 September 2015, 17:52:24: I use no o-rings and didn't seem to affect travel that much for me. I only use 1 ball per switch though.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Herothereu on Tue, 01 September 2015, 18:16:14: Just wait for the new Cherry Silent MX switches to ship.
Title: Re: Silicone Balls.
Post by: Phirr on Tue, 01 September 2015, 20:09:10: If only they had silent Clears, not just linear switches