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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: abdulmuhsee on Mon, 30 June 2014, 16:34:56
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So I've been typing and gaming on my old Black ALPS board, and while I love the board, it's a DIN5 running through an adapter, and if I press more than a few keys at once, my internal speaker beeps at me and the keys don't register. This isn't a problem for typing, but it's a huge problem for some games, where I sometimes have to press multiple keys at once.
I also want to go tenkeyless, but not "smushed" tenkeyless (I'm sure there's an actual technical term for this), where the arrow keys are smushed up next to the letters. The only new ALPS option would be the Matias, but that has the smushed layout, so it looks like my only option is Cherry.
Would love some suggestions on which switch is most comparable to Black ALPS (i.e. not clicky and similar actuation force) and which kind of board to get.
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Black ALPS is tactile, right?
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So I've been typing and gaming on my old Black ALPS board, and while I love the board, it's a DIN5 running through an adapter, and if I press more than a few keys at once, my internal speaker beeps at me and the keys don't register. This isn't a problem for typing, but it's a huge problem for some games, where I sometimes have to press multiple keys at once.
I also want to go tenkeyless, but not "smushed" tenkeyless (I'm sure there's an actual technical term for this), where the arrow keys are smushed up next to the letters. The only new ALPS option would be the Matias, but that has the smushed layout, so it looks like my only option is Cherry.
Would love some suggestions on which switch is most comparable to Black ALPS (i.e. not clicky and similar actuation force) and which kind of board to get.
i have pretty much all the alps switches, mx switches...............and there is not a comparable in mx to black alps-- at least from what i have
black alps are scratchy, tactile.........
mx clears are not scratchy, but might be the route you wanna go-- however not a lot to choose from at present and are a little pricy
there are others here that know more than me and i am sure will pipe in and give some advise
can someone who knows provide the actuation on black alps and what might be somewhere in the ball park for mx?
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Cherry MX Brown is somewhat similar to black Alps in terms of tactile feedback, but much lighter. MX Black is similar stiffness, but linear. You can combine the two into tactoblack and get something quite close to black Alps. Stock Cherry MX Clear (or modded to panda clear) is worth trying too.
However, note that Alps activate at the top of the keystroke, while Cherry MX switches have the tactile and actuation point around the middle.
Besides, I think you could mod your current keyboard: replace the stock switches by Matias (Quiet) Clicky, add a converter and maybe cut the keyboard to make it tenkeyless.
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If you like tactile (not clicky) complicated Alps switches but want something new, I recommend Matias quiet switches (or if you want the click-clack, Matias clicky switches).
I also really like orange and salmon complicated Alps switches (the two types predating the black version, and quite similar to each other), but with 25-year-old keyboards, condition can be hit or miss.
No Cherry MX switch is really going to match your black Alps. Spring-swapped (“ergo”) MX clear switches might suit you though.
For a standard TKL layout, there aren’t too many great Alps options. Ducky and Filco both made such keyboards (with various Alps clone switches) a few years ago, and they come up on the classifieds from time to time. It would be possible to replace the switches with something harvested from a donor board (or new Matias switches).
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Cherry MX Brown is somewhat similar to black Alps in terms of tactile feedback, but much lighter. MX Black is similar stiffness, but linear. You can combine the two into tactoblack and get something quite close to black Alps. Stock Cherry MX Clear (or modded to panda clear) is worth trying too. Besides, I think you could mod your current keyboard: replace the stock switches by Matias (Quiet) Clicky, add a converter and maybe cut the keyboard to make it tenkeyless.
That all sounds pretty great, but I'm not a DIY keyboard guy, so I need something I can just buy and it's ready to go. I'm guessing I can't just buy a board with "tactoblack" switches.
If you like tactile (not clicky) complicated Alps switches but want something new, I recommend Matias quiet switches (or if you want the click-clack, Matias clicky switches).
I would love Matias switches, but they only sell a tenkeyless keyboard with the smushed layout. Based on ripster's old guide on Cherry switches: (http://i.imgur.com/I1u8aeO.jpg)
It looks like Clears have the same actuation force as Black ALPS and are tactile. Blacks are also similar in actuation force, and Green would be perfect if they weren't clicky. Does anyone even know of a good tenkeyless keyboard with Clears?
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this one on ebay is too much money...........
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WASD-Code-87-Tenkeyless-Mechanical-Keyboard-w-Cherry-MX-Clear-Switches-NIB-/291179356737?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item43cba46241
crabby_b has got one with clear alphas's at a decent price
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59114.30
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This newly available TKL MX clear keyboard has been getting favorable reviews around here:
https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs,tenkeyless&pid=es87u_cc_bbb_al
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59116.0
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This newly available TKL MX clear keyboard has been getting favorable reviews around here:
https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs,tenkeyless&pid=es87u_cc_bbb_al
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59116.0
That actually looks like exactly what I need at a reasonable price point.
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This newly available TKL MX clear keyboard has been getting favorable reviews around here:
https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs,tenkeyless&pid=es87u_cc_bbb_al
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59116.0
That actually looks like exactly what I need at a reasonable price point.
Another vote for the KUL. It's a very high quality board, I think it's well worth the price. You can even make the layout HHKB-ish with the DIP switches (can swap Ctrl/Caps lock, backslash/backspace and Esc/backtic). Clears are very nice, my second favourite switch behind 62g ErgoClears... which I guess are still technically Clears.
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That all sounds pretty great, but I'm not a DIY keyboard guy, so I need something I can just buy and it's ready to go. I'm guessing I can't just buy a board with "tactoblack" switches.
Then become one!
If you get a keyboard with PCB-mounted Cherry MX, you can mod the switches without any soldering, only using a screwdriver and a pair of tweezers. Cherry G80-1800 is a good start, very cheap too.
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That all sounds pretty great, but I'm not a DIY keyboard guy, so I need something I can just buy and it's ready to go. I'm guessing I can't just buy a board with "tactoblack" switches.
Then become one!
If you get a keyboard with PCB-mounted Cherry MX, you can mod the switches without any soldering, only using a screwdriver and a pair of tweezers. Cherry G80-1800 is a good start, very cheap too.
The new Cherry G80 boards are rather shoddy, IMHO. I recently bought a pair of G80-3000's with Clears and was quite surprised at the low quality. It felt quite horrible to type on, despite having Cherry profile PBT caps and MX Clears. The PCB flexed markedly with each keypress, the keycaps were printed (or is that lasered?) at an angle, the keycaps are really thin and cheap feeling (the thicker ABS keycaps on the stabilised keys actually felt a lot nicer), etc. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone interested in mechanical boards except for spare parts. I bought them for the switches and that's all I'll be using from them.
Maybe I'm just spoiled by my KBT Pure Limited Edition, but the difference between the two "PCB mounted" boards could not have been greater. I can't think of a decent PCB mounted TKL, either, they're all plate mount, which means desoldering if you want to change switch springs.
I'd still say, try the KUL with stock Clears. If they turn out to be too hard, try find someone on GH willing to do the spring swap for you.
Clears have nice tactile bump and the spring is progressive, so it gets harder faster close to bottom out.
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Either the new ones are much worse than 5+ years ago, or you're spoiled for sure.
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I'd still say, try the KUL with stock Clears. If they turn out to be too hard, try find someone on GH willing to do the spring swap for you.
Clears have nice tactile bump and the spring is progressive, so it gets harder faster close to bottom out.
Well the KUL is pretty much the only option available for Clears, so that's what I'll go with. I'm a little nervous about having an all-plastic board to replace my tough-as-nails steel-plated ALPS, but it's time to move on if I want a TKL :-/.
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There is no such thing as a cherry replacement for Alps.
What you should do is desolder all the switches, toss the PCB, put in matias switches, and then do a handwire to a teensy or something with diodes and use Soarer's Controller. Then you have NKRO Alps. You can then just saw off the numpad and use hotglue or something to get the case back together, though you might want to paint it afterwards to cover the seam.
The small Matias is called a 75%
There were a few clone alps tenkeyless boards, but I know nothing about rollover on those.
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What you should do is desolder all the switches, toss the PCB, put in matias switches, and then do a handwire to a teensy or something with diodes and use Soarer's Controller. Then you have NKRO Alps. You can then just saw off the numpad and use hotglue or something to get the case back together, though you might want to paint it afterwards to cover the seam.
Good Lord, you may as well be asking me to build the Death Star.
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yeah the KUL is awesome
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What you should do is desolder all the switches, toss the PCB, put in matias switches, and then do a handwire to a teensy or something with diodes and use Soarer's Controller. Then you have NKRO Alps. You can then just saw off the numpad and use hotglue or something to get the case back together, though you might want to paint it afterwards to cover the seam.
Good Lord, you may as well be asking me to build the Death Star.
Yeah, well. That's the cheapest way to get what you want. Though there is stuff like the Kingsaver, however those are very expensive. You should probably check for some of the clone alps TKLs and see what sort of KRO they have.
If you've never used cherry before and have only been using Alps, then you may be disappointed.
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Yeah, well. That's the cheapest way to get what you want. Though there is stuff like the Kingsaver, however those are very expensive. You should probably check for some of the clone alps TKLs and see what sort of KRO they have.
If you've never used cherry before and have only been using Alps, then you may be disappointed.
I was considering getting one of those Ducky ALPS clones awhile back, but they're difficult to find now and I kept reading that they break quite easily.
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Yeah, well. That's the cheapest way to get what you want. Though there is stuff like the Kingsaver, however those are very expensive. You should probably check for some of the clone alps TKLs and see what sort of KRO they have.
If you've never used cherry before and have only been using Alps, then you may be disappointed.
I was considering getting one of those Ducky ALPS clones awhile back, but they're difficult to find now and I kept reading that they break quite easily.
mine is still going strong............
i love it- guess i'm not hard to please :-\
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I was able to adapt to the Matias mini layout pretty easily. For the extra keys in between the numpad and main key block, I use home & end mostly with some page up & down sprinkled in. I know you said you don't want it, but do you have a specific reason or it's just different than what you're used to?
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I'd still say, try the KUL with stock Clears. If they turn out to be too hard, try find someone on GH willing to do the spring swap for you.
Clears have nice tactile bump and the spring is progressive, so it gets harder faster close to bottom out.
Well the KUL is pretty much the only option available for Clears, so that's what I'll go with. I'm a little nervous about having an all-plastic board to replace my tough-as-nails steel-plated ALPS, but it's time to move on if I want a TKL :-/.
The KUL has has a steel plate. The switches are mounted to it. It's a pretty solid board. Unless you're referring to only the casing? You could get an aluminium TKL case if this really does bother you ;)
IIRC, the Ducky Alps style boards only came in Green clicky and Black linear versions. There was no tactile no click version.
You could scan eBay for Dell AT101W boards if you really want another board with Tactile Black Alps.
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The KUL has has a steel plate. The switches are mounted to it. It's a pretty solid board. Unless you're referring to only the casing? You could get an aluminium TKL case if this really does bother you ;)
IIRC, the Ducky Alps style boards only came in Green clicky and Black linear versions. There was no tactile no click version.
You could scan eBay for Dell AT101W boards if you really want another board with Tactile Black Alps.
I saw the 'naked' pics of the KUL keyboard and didn't see a steel plate, so maybe it's under the casing completely? Also, the AT101 would put me in the same full-sized keyboard situation.
I wouldn't mind trying the linear ALPS clones before Cherry, but it's impossible to find that board anymore.
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The plate is definitely steel, not alu
Might be stainless, but it's still one of the more solid plates I've typed on
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The KUL has has a steel plate. The switches are mounted to it. It's a pretty solid board. Unless you're referring to only the casing? You could get an aluminium TKL case if this really does bother you ;)
IIRC, the Ducky Alps style boards only came in Green clicky and Black linear versions. There was no tactile no click version.
You could scan eBay for Dell AT101W boards if you really want another board with Tactile Black Alps.
I saw the 'naked' pics of the KUL keyboard and didn't see a steel plate, so maybe it's under the casing completely? Also, the AT101 would put me in the same full-sized keyboard situation.
I wouldn't mind trying the linear ALPS clones before Cherry, but it's impossible to find that board anymore.
You could also go for a M0116 on ebay, but you'd still have to add diodes, or find someone to do that for you. It's TK rather than TKL, though.
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The KUL has has a steel plate. The switches are mounted to it. It's a pretty solid board. Unless you're referring to only the casing? You could get an aluminium TKL case if this really does bother you ;)
IIRC, the Ducky Alps style boards only came in Green clicky and Black linear versions. There was no tactile no click version.
You could scan eBay for Dell AT101W boards if you really want another board with Tactile Black Alps.
I saw the 'naked' pics of the KUL keyboard and didn't see a steel plate, so maybe it's under the casing completely? Also, the AT101 would put me in the same full-sized keyboard situation.
I wouldn't mind trying the linear ALPS clones before Cherry, but it's impossible to find that board anymore.
(http://i.imgur.com/vPABByh.png)
Not sure if it's just painted or powder coated, but the black plate the switches are mounted in is made from steel.
From this review of the board: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59116.0
Even the keycaps are decent, better than most thin ABS you get stock on boards. And of course you have LOTS of options if you want to change them :D