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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: TBone on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:07:03

Title: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: TBone on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:07:03
Did I **** up GH? I just bought a Hakko FX-901/P to do the Cherry stabilizer mod to my KUL ES-87, where I would remove the stabilized keys, clip the stabilizers' bottoms, then put it all back together.

But with the tools I have, the Hakko, a soldering wick, and some solder, I cannot remove all of the solder from the joint. I got it to where the solder was flush to the board, but there was solder still around the contact. The wick just did not want to suck up the solder. I had to heat the solder, and then stick the wick in, otherwise nothing would get picked up, I couldn't get the solder to melt underneath the wick, it wouldn't melt. I think it might have something to do with non-lead solder. I think they might have used it? Just because it seemed to have a higher melting point than my new solder.

This really sucks, I've been trying to get it to work all day and now I'm just pissed. I have work tomorrow and no more time to try it this week. ****.

Help me GH. You're my only hope. What do I need to buy to make this work? I've already dumped so much money into this that I'd like to keep it under $50 if possible.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: tbc on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:14:39
add MORE solder.

then reheat it for longer and try again.

it's what i do using the soldapult....mqybe it's different for a wick.

ps, don't need to make multiple threads.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: Smasher816 on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:14:54
Lead free solder does have a higher melting point and is used in a lot of manufactured products because of the RoHS law in europe.

I'm not sure about the hakko fx-901 but I believe cordless ones usually have less power - I hope it is enough (a quick google search says it should work for lead free).

Solder wick can be pretty annoying to use. If you can you might think about getting a soldapult / desoldering pump. Just heat up the joint until it becomes molten (and changes color / appearance), then just click the button to suck it all up.

I am in no way a soldering expert of any kind. I have only done a few mods but that is the info that came to mind after all my reading. It couldn't hurt to ask here http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.0. Good luck.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: TBone on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:51:53
Quote from: tbc on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:14:39
add MORE solder.

then reheat it for longer and try again.

it's what i do using the soldapult....mqybe it's different for a wick.

ps, don't need to make multiple threads.

Sorry I realized I posted to the wrong subforum, how do you remove a post? I couldn't figure it out.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: TBone on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:53:53
Quote from: tbc on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:14:39
add MORE solder.

then reheat it for longer and try again.

it's what i do using the soldapult....mqybe it's different for a wick.

ps, don't need to make multiple threads.

But thanks, I think I'll be picking one up off of Amazon  :thumb:
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: strict on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:55:16
To be honest, I think you're wasting your time using desoldering wick/braid. Get a Soldapullt (http://www.amazon.com/Edsyn-Deluxe-Soldapullt-Heavy-Vacuum/dp/B006GOKVKI/) solder sucker and you will have no more issues. Ever since I got my soldapullt I haven't touched my desoldering braid.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: TBone on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:56:48
Quote from: strict on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:55:16
To be honest, I think you're wasting your time using desoldering wick/braid. Get a Soldapullt (http://www.amazon.com/Edsyn-Deluxe-Soldapullt-Heavy-Vacuum/dp/B006GOKVKI/) solder sucker and you will have no more issues. Ever since I got my soldapullt I haven't touched my desoldering braid.

Is that the one you use? Based on the reviews it seems massive, I was thinking of getting a smaller one unless you've used that for keyboards before.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: Smasher816 on Sun, 06 July 2014, 22:02:10
Quote from: TBone on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:56:48
Quote from: strict on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:55:16
To be honest, I think you're wasting your time using desoldering wick/braid. Get a Soldapullt (http://www.amazon.com/Edsyn-Deluxe-Soldapullt-Heavy-Vacuum/dp/B006GOKVKI/) solder sucker and you will have no more issues. Ever since I got my soldapullt I haven't touched my desoldering braid.

Is that the one you use? Based on the reviews it seems massive, I was thinking of getting a smaller one unless you've used that for keyboards before.

I believe it is the same one geekhackers.org caries. Edysn is one of the original soldapult makers and they have quality goods. It is large but it is still usable and means you will be able to suck up a lot. Tbh, I'm not sure why it is so large...

Quick tip if you do get one. It's pretty simple to figure out - just pump it and then press the button when you are ready to suck everything up. However, after a while the suction will die down until it stops working. It just means the tip is getting clogged up. Push the plunger in and keep pushing (further than you normally do, as far as you can). The metal piece in the middle will actually stick out of the tip and push out a ring of all the solder junk. Bingo, your ready to start sucking up more solder again.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: strict on Sun, 06 July 2014, 22:06:22
Quote from: TBone on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:56:48
Quote from: strict on Sun, 06 July 2014, 21:55:16
To be honest, I think you're wasting your time using desoldering wick/braid. Get a Soldapullt (http://www.amazon.com/Edsyn-Deluxe-Soldapullt-Heavy-Vacuum/dp/B006GOKVKI/) solder sucker and you will have no more issues. Ever since I got my soldapullt I haven't touched my desoldering braid.

Is that the one you use? Based on the reviews it seems massive, I was thinking of getting a smaller one unless you've used that for keyboards before.

Using that same model Soldapullt, I've gutted 3 or 4 Wyse terminals for their vintage blacks along with dozens of other little projects (360 controllers, ps3 controllers, routers, etc) and it works just as well as the day I bought it. It's definitely a little big, but the thing is built like a tank. IMO, you cant go wrong with buying an Edsyn product.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: mouse.the.lucky.dog on Sun, 06 July 2014, 22:07:49
Are you using flux? I've never had any problem with WIck. In fact I've seen the guys working on detects for Fermilab use wick to make their detectors most seemsed to prefer it.

Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: smknjoe on Sun, 06 July 2014, 22:12:15
Soldering wicks are very easy to use, work well, and are great for small projects. Usually adding more solder will help in your situation. If that still doesn't work then make sure you are heating everything properly, including the wick.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: intelli78 on Sun, 06 July 2014, 22:19:40
Wick sounds terrible for a double-sided PCB. Does that ever work? I second the purchase of a Soldapullt.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: smknjoe on Sun, 06 July 2014, 22:26:40
Works fine on double sided PCBs. It sounds like he just needs more solder and/or more heat.

Here's a video that shows how easy it is to use:
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: Defect on Sun, 06 July 2014, 23:19:01
I had a hard time with cheaper wicks.  It's tricky to have the weave at a certain pattern and to manage heat.  Pretty satisfying when you get it right.  With cheap wicks I found it impossible.

I bought a solder sucker for 5 bucks off amazon after burning a pcb and rarely use the wick anymore.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: TBone on Mon, 07 July 2014, 09:30:29
 ;D

Thanks for all the help guys, I thought it was a lost cause.

So should I go with this? http://www.amazon.com/ECG-J-045-DS-Watt-Desoldering-Iron/dp/B00068IJSG/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1404743222&sr=8-11&keywords=solder+sucker

Or this? http://www.amazon.com/Edsyn-Deluxe-Soldapullt-Heavy-Vacuum/dp/B006GOKVKI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404743215&sr=8-1&keywords=soldapullt

In another thread, someone swears by the prior, but you seem to have a lot of experience strict, I just want to know what you think would be easier for a noob who only wants to do a few keys!  :))
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 07 July 2014, 09:35:09
The second one is the Edsyn Soldapult that I was referring to in my earlier post. The desoldering bulb is ok but it's hard to do things like LEDs. If you're going to pay for a replacement to your braid, you might as well get the Soldapult so if you want to do more desoldering, you'll have a nice tool. The Soldapult is probably the most recommended desoldering tool on GH. At least from what I've seen. I have one myself and it's great.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: TBone on Mon, 07 July 2014, 11:42:45
Quote from: CPTBadAss on Mon, 07 July 2014, 09:35:09
The second one is the Edsyn Soldapult that I was referring to in my earlier post. The desoldering bulb is ok but it's hard to do things like LEDs. If you're going to pay for a replacement to your braid, you might as well get the Soldapult so if you want to do more desoldering, you'll have a nice tool. The Soldapult is probably the most recommended desoldering tool on GH. At least from what I've seen. I have one myself and it's great.

Sweet I just ordered the Edsyn from Amazon. I'll let you guys know how it goes, and how clipped Cherry stabs feel! YAY  :D
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 07 July 2014, 12:48:54
necesita más fuego (http://eemoticons.net/Upload/Big%20Onion/th_133.gif)
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: Smasher816 on Mon, 07 July 2014, 15:09:43
Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 07 July 2014, 12:48:54
necesita más fuego
Show Image
(http://eemoticons.net/Upload/Big%20Onion/th_133.gif)


cuándo eres español?
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: TBone on Tue, 08 July 2014, 23:22:55
Just want to report back that the soldapult worked great on this board and with this soldering iron. Now I'm moving on to finishing the clipped cherry stabilizer mod on the KUL ES-87 (Cherry plate mounted). Man I wish there were more tutorials for this on a plate mounted board, I'd make one if anyone would find it useful. It was pretty tricky getting the keyswitch and stabilizer off, but I got it.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: mouse.the.lucky.dog on Wed, 09 July 2014, 01:05:20
Doesn't "he who must not be named" have a pictorial of this on imgur?
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: TBone on Wed, 09 July 2014, 08:46:17
Quote from: mouse.the.lucky.dog on Wed, 09 July 2014, 01:05:20
Doesn't "he who must not be named" have a pictorial of this on imgur?

If you mean...him... then I found some on reddit. But almost entirely PCB mounted and the steps are like:
1) Remove Key
2) Clip Stabs
3) ??.??
4) Profit
 :))

There aren't really any steps explaining how to remove the switch or stabs individually.
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: TBone on Wed, 09 July 2014, 08:46:42
EDIT: oops
Title: Re: Help Soldering. Wick won't suck up solder.
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 09 July 2014, 09:17:39
after using my solderputt about a few hundred times, i started burning a little indent on the side tip where my iron was. ended up getting a nicer suction since it became a more complete vacuum.