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geekhack Community => Reviews => Topic started by: Defect on Fri, 11 July 2014, 16:39:16

Title: SIIG Suntouch Jr. - SKCM "Complicated" White Alps
Post by: Defect on Fri, 11 July 2014, 16:39:16

Hello Geekhackers and curious visitors!

We're here today to take a look at the SIIG Suntouch Jr.

Personal Background:
I started with MX Blues and got heavy into MX switch modding.  After trying every MX switch and various spring weight mods, I went to buckling springs and got a Topre 55g as well.  Alps were on my radar next, and enthusiasts around here have nothing but great things to say about them.  I love all switches, and needed to satisfy my curiosity.

The Keyboard:
(https://i.imgur.com/CNsUJE4.jpg)
That odd side shot everyone does.  I think it looks nice I guess.

This is a SIIG Suntouch Jr., an Ortek MKB-84 SX (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Ortek_MKB-84_SX) based keyboard.  A brother or sister to the Minitouch Jr.  I really don't know all that much about this keyboard's history, and will not focus on that.

The Layout:
(https://i.imgur.com/uX6gofr.jpg)
*I have put colored modifiers and escape key from a Focus 2001  Here is the original (https://i.imgur.com/NvqaZnw.jpg)

The keyboard uses a "mini" ISO variant layout.  Notice the "insert" and "delete" keys are besides the left side Ctrl and Alt.  I'm still getting used to the enter key but I love this layout so far.  Part of me wishes the insert and delete keys were relocated or bound to an FN layer.

It has a set of dedicated arrow keys and nice extra vertical navigation row on the far right, much like how the Choc Mini and KeyCool 84 are set up. The spacebar is about the same size as the one on my Choc Mini, so I believe it is 5.5x units.

It has a short right shift (1.75 unit) to accommodate the arrow key cluster.  I am a big fan of the short right shifts, and only avoid them when I have difficulties with cap sets.

Mini Layouts are my favorites, and my only issue with them are that it is difficult to find replacement caps.  Not a problem with Alps, because we don't have aftermarket caps.  Lol...

The Switches:
Fellow Geekhackers Daniel Beardsmore (http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2792) and jacobolus (http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=29587) helped me identify the switches used in this keyboard. (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59976.0)   The SIIG Minitouch was known to have two versions, one with Monterrey Blues and the other with Simplified White Alp Clones.  We discovered that this variant of the Suntouch Jr. has real "pine" SKCM White Alps (Complicated Clicky White Alps)

(https://i.imgur.com/byN99mP.jpg)
Complicated SKCM White Alps

(https://i.imgur.com/cZPAzpf.jpg)
Without the Slider

Clicky MX switches like MX Blues and MX Greens use a two part plastic slider to create a click noise.  The switch essentially launches the bottom half down, parts from the top half and the bottom half together to create a click.  I find this to be an absolutely fascinating design.  Someone came up with this to emulate a buckling spring-like click within the confines of MX's linear-by-design nature.
(https://i.imgur.com/LcMBDqs.gif)
*Not my image, taken off google search.

Clicky Alps switches spring and slap a metal leaf against the housing unit.  This effect is easily visible in Matias's switches, which use a clear housing unit.  The interaction of force from the metal leaf gives this switch a very crisp feeling.
(https://i.imgur.com/TKBQzr0.gif)
*Not my image, taken off google search.

I always regarded Membrane Buckling Spring (Model M, Unicomps, Lexmarks) as the king of clicky switches. (Note, I have never had a capacitive buckling spring like on the Model F so I cannot speak to them)

But...

I would say I might even prefer these clicky alps over my buckling spring boards.  I don't know if I can ever go back to MX Blues at this point.
They sound amazing and feel amazing. 
There are, however, two issues with these switches. 
     1. Wobble: Alps are notoriously wobbly, and now I can experience it for myself.  I personally don't mind, but I could see this becoming an issue for some users, especially Topre lovers.
     2. Durability: This board is like-new and the switches are very nice and very crisp.  However, I also have an older alps board and have read many users who agree that Alps do not age very well.  I really hope that good care of this board will make them last longer, and hopefully this board will outlive me.

I love these switches and they might be my favorite.  I still need to try Complicated Blue Alps which are apparently a better version of this switch.


Keycaps:
I'm not an expert on plastics but these feel like ABS to me.  The modifiers look to be printed but the alpas are all doubleshots.

(https://i.imgur.com/cFjlQ7y.jpg)
Doubleshot Alphas

I also replaced the modifiers with doubleshot colored alphas from a Focus 2001.  The escape key was also replaced.
(https://i.imgur.com/1fmSJsB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/L019faF.jpg)

I'm actually looking forward to getting these keys all shiny :)


Extras:

On Line:
(https://i.imgur.com/QbMyfQc.jpg)
This board has a nice "On Line" LED to indicate that it is plugged in and working.

5 PIN AT connector:
(https://i.imgur.com/l5SBjRH.jpg)

To get this keyboard to work on my computer I had to grab an AT to PS/2 adapter, and then a PS/2 to USB Adapter.  Through this method this keyboard only has 2KRO.  With certain key combinations I can press as many as 6 keys at a time, but the max min is 2.

Blurry Photo:
(https://i.imgur.com/WpIqARg.jpg)

Booklet:
(https://i.imgur.com/3dBhZLW.jpg)

15 pin Port on Back for Numpad:
(https://i.imgur.com/7A0JSG2.jpg)

Ortek Controller:
(https://i.imgur.com/JQIh3V8.jpg)



This review was typed on my SIIG Suntouch Jr. with SKCM "Complicated" White Alps.  And it was a blast.  I hope you enjoyed!


- Defect     (https://i.imgur.com/VZM7vBG.png)

Title: Re: SIIG Suntouch Jr. - SKCM "Complicated" White Alps
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 11 July 2014, 21:18:22

Quote from: Defect on Fri, 11 July 2014, 16:39:16

Show Image

(https://i.imgur.com/TKBQzr0.gif)

*Not my image, taken off google search.

Nice review, and I’ll comment some more later, but note this gif, while informative, is a bit misleading: taking off a big chunk of the top housing removes the little channel that keeps the slider going straight up and down, and as a result it’s deflecting a whole lot more than it would on a complete switch, which I think is also changing the way the metal leaf clicks.

Title: Re: SIIG Suntouch Jr. - SKCM "Complicated" White Alps
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 11 July 2014, 21:31:19

Quote from: Defect on Fri, 11 July 2014, 16:39:16

Durability: This board is like-new and the switches are very nice and very crisp.  However, I also have an older alps board and have read many users who agree that Alps do not age very well.  I really hope that good care of this board will make them last longer, and hopefully this board will outlive me.

I know people who continuously used Alps keyboards for 10+ years with no problems, so I think it mostly has to do with either extremely heavy use (e.g. in schools or for 8 hours/day of nonstop data entry), or poor storage conditions.

The damage mainly comes in two flavors:

(1) Dirt and grit can get into the switches, making them a lot scratchier than when new. I think this can be mostly solved by deep cleaning the switch parts and maybe adding some lubricant, but I had some switches that were extremely dusty/scratchy, and that didn’t completely go away even with generous lube, so I think the plastic of the top housing might have gotten fairly scratched up inside from being used while there was grit in there. (Either that or I just did a bad job cleaning the dust out.)

(2) The tactile/click leaves can get worn down, either from very heavy use or from being stored for an extended period of time with the key pressed down. This can be reversed by very gently bending the tactile leaf back to something like its original shape (for clicky switches in particular, you want the side facing the switch housing to be straight, rather than having a sort of hunchback shape that is pretty common among worn switches), but note this is very difficult to do precisely consistently across many switches, and the wrong sort of bend can mess the leaf up beyond my ability to fix it, so be careful. Another alternative is to swap in new tactile/click leaves. I’m partial to the ones from Matias switches (both clicky and tactile) which I think are just as good as the original Alps kind, though they tend pretty tactile and a bit stiffer. (So you’ll end up with a feel like a great-condition white Alps switch, rather than a blue or orange one.)

One last thing that sometimes happens is the metal leaf connected to the switchplate gets bent to the point that the switch no longer actuates reliably. Bending it back a bit should fix this problem, and isn’t too hard.

I haven’t really seen any Alps switches which were damaged to the point they were unrepairable just by routine typing, though I have seen some that were completely smashed up, and I’ve messed up a few trying to fix/mod them.

Title: Re: SIIG Suntouch Jr. - SKCM "Complicated" White Alps
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 06 January 2015, 13:07:25

Arise thread, ARISE.

I think the Suntouch/Minitouch boards are really underrated. I have a Minitouch with Monterey Blue Alps Clones which I love. You can get a compact 75% layout with multiple types of Alps or Alps-esque switches to pick from. And as Defect has shown, they can even be had NIB. My only complaint is that I need to use a Din5 -> PS2 adapter then a PS2 -> USB adapter. I should buy or make a cable so that it's USB.

Nice little review Defect :D.

Title: Re: SIIG Suntouch Jr. - SKCM "Complicated" White Alps
Post by: derezzed on Thu, 08 January 2015, 22:57:58

Thanks for the review, Defect.  And thanks, CPTBadAss for bringing this review to my attention.  Another keyboard to add to my wish list.  This community provides a great service to keyboard hobbyists but it does us a great disservice by not warning us strongly enough about the dangers of this hobby.  One solution to this would be to change the site's logo.  I propose something like this:

[attach=1]

Title: Re: SIIG Suntouch Jr. - SKCM "Complicated" White Alps
Post by: mecano on Thu, 26 March 2015, 17:35:10

Thanks for the review  :thumb: was searching about montereys in google and found this :)

Title: Re: SIIG Suntouch Jr. - SKCM "Complicated" White Alps
Post by: Altis on Sat, 28 March 2015, 00:27:58

Love the layout of this board!

White alps are too heavy for me, though. They're right up there in terms of actuation force.

Title: Re: SIIG Suntouch Jr. - SKCM "Complicated" White Alps
Post by: ideus on Sat, 28 March 2015, 00:40:26

Nice board, congratulations on your finding. I had a Focus 2001, some year ago, and I loved the colored modifiers, and they found a nice home on your Suntouch, awesome.


What impressed me the most is your review, you did a great job. Thank you for sharing it.