geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: pagosElite on Fri, 11 July 2014, 17:24:52
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Is there any actual difference between the two keyboards that constitutes such a large price difference?
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Two entirely different switch designs. Poker 2 has Cherry MX and HHKB is Topre. Entirely different purposes and entirely different feel.
HHKB has an amazing layout and Poker 2's just couldn't work for me (bad PN and FN key locations that you can't change).
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It's a question whether you like the topre switches and hhkb layout.
If the answer is yes, then you don't have another choice so you pay it and suck it up :D
Now while I don't think that topre switches are somewhat superior to the mx, I value the hhkb layout more and more with every day and I think that this is the "right" 60% layout. I've ordered a GH60 with the poker layout prior to getting a hhkb and I will try to turn that gh60 into a ghhkb as soon as it arrives :) Also, if you want a really nice poker, you will end up in the hhkb price range sooner or later.
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I love Topre but my HHKB Type S isn't even my favorite board for switch feel. FC660C holds that down in my opinion. However, the HHKB layout is just unmatched so it is my daily driver. There is just something about it after you get use to it. You don't really notice it until you try using your other boards and you see these all over the place: "\\\\\\\\\\\" among other perfections such as the arrow cluster and FN placement.
Unfortunately you'll just never know until you try it. If you are in the market for a board and want to go Topre, I can tell you right now that if you do not like an HHKB, it will go lightning fast from the Classfields. In essence allowing you to try the board for a nominal fee.
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Two entirely different switch designs. Poker 2 has Cherry MX and HHKB is Topre. Entirely different purposes and entirely different feel.
HHKB has an amazing layout and Poker 2's just couldn't work for me (bad PN and FN key locations that you can't change).
I love Topre but my HHKB Type S isn't even my favorite board for switch feel. FC660C holds that down in my opinion. However, the HHKB layout is just unmatched so it is my daily driver. There is just something about it after you get use to it. You don't really notice it until you try using your other boards and you see these all over the place: "\\\\\\\\\\\" among other perfections such as the arrow cluster and FN placement.
Unfortunately you'll just never know until you try it. If you are in the market for a board and want to go Topre, I can tell you right now that if you do not like an HHKB, it will go lightning fast from the Classfields. In essence allowing you to try the board for a nominal fee.
It's a question whether you like the topre switches and hhkb layout.
If the answer is yes, then you don't have another choice so you pay it and suck it up :D
Now while I don't think that topre switches are somewhat superior to the mx, I value the hhkb layout more and more with every day and I think that this is the "right" 60% layout. I've ordered a GH60 with the poker layout prior to getting a hhkb and I will try to turn that gh60 into a ghhkb as soon as it arrives :) Also, if you want a really nice poker, you will end up in the hhkb price range sooner or later.
Right now I'm using the Quickfire Sealth but I'm in the market for a 60% as I'm getting a new, small desk. Would you consider the Poker II a good 60% with the same experience as the Quickfire Stealth (as in, I'll be satisfied and the keyboard won't be cheap quality)?
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i don't like the poker 2 but it's not as popular as it is for nothing
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Two entirely different switch designs. Poker 2 has Cherry MX and HHKB is Topre. Entirely different purposes and entirely different feel.
HHKB has an amazing layout and Poker 2's just couldn't work for me (bad PN and FN key locations that you can't change).
I love Topre but my HHKB Type S isn't even my favorite board for switch feel. FC660C holds that down in my opinion. However, the HHKB layout is just unmatched so it is my daily driver. There is just something about it after you get use to it. You don't really notice it until you try using your other boards and you see these all over the place: "\\\\\\\\\\\" among other perfections such as the arrow cluster and FN placement.
Unfortunately you'll just never know until you try it. If you are in the market for a board and want to go Topre, I can tell you right now that if you do not like an HHKB, it will go lightning fast from the Classfields. In essence allowing you to try the board for a nominal fee.
It's a question whether you like the topre switches and hhkb layout.
If the answer is yes, then you don't have another choice so you pay it and suck it up :D
Now while I don't think that topre switches are somewhat superior to the mx, I value the hhkb layout more and more with every day and I think that this is the "right" 60% layout. I've ordered a GH60 with the poker layout prior to getting a hhkb and I will try to turn that gh60 into a ghhkb as soon as it arrives :) Also, if you want a really nice poker, you will end up in the hhkb price range sooner or later.
Right now I'm using the Quickfire Sealth but I'm in the market for a 60% as I'm getting a new, small desk. Would you consider the Poker II a good 60% with the same experience as the Quickfire Stealth (as in, I'll be satisfied and the keyboard won't be cheap quality)?
I've tried both Poker II and the Topre HHKB, and i'd say, Poker II fits me better. The fact that you may program it as you wish makes it a nice tool when it comes to productivity and it comes with standard MX switches. It's not cheap, Mine has hold for 14 months as of today, and no signs of wear of any kind.
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Many of the opinions I have read on the Topre-vs-MX, and related subjects like this, were ellaborated from a "fan-boi" perspective. But, here most of the comments are well balanced, and objective. Thank you for all of them. I think that improves the usefulness of being part of this community.
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So my question becomes, is it worth me saving up for the HHKB (I program) or would the Poker II be good for me? I love Cherry Browns and I've never used Topres so should I wait and save up for the HHKB or..? Thanks a lot in advance!
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Get the Poker II and a nice set of Cherry caps, you're welcome. ;)
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Get the Poker II and a nice set of Cherry caps, you're welcome. ;)
While more people reply and give me more opinions I'll just ask you some questions about that. Do you know where I can find blank PBT key caps that have the Fn row keys on the front? So for example the keys that come stock with the Poker II are perfect but I just want the TOP clear and the front side etched with the fn keys. Also, are the Poker II keys a different size than the norm that I need to watch out for when buying. One last thing, I'm considering switching to Colemak and was wondering, would the keys be compatible when moving them between rows or do different rows have different sizes?
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Get the Poker II and a nice set of Cherry caps, you're welcome. ;)
While more people reply and give me more opinions I'll just ask you some questions about that. Do you know where I can find blank PBT key caps that have the Fn row keys on the front? So for example the keys that come stock with the Poker II are perfect but I just want the TOP clear and the front side etched with the fn keys. Also, are the Poker II keys a different size than the norm that I need to watch out for when buying. One last thing, I'm considering switching to Colemak and was wondering, would the keys be compatible when moving them between rows or do different rows have different sizes?
Hmm I don't recall seeing a set with no alphas but fn layer are lasered, dyesubbed, etc. wasd would be able to do that but that's oem profile. I prefer cherry or DCS. HHKB is really nice but hard to find keysets for. My main reason for using MX after owning multiple Topre boards. It all comes down to what switch you like typing on. I have no experience with Colemak, someone can chime in hopefully. Also I've never had the stock caps, I believe they are oem profile. Bottom row is 1.25 mods. Remember that when looking for keysets. :)
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Get the Poker II and a nice set of Cherry caps, you're welcome. ;)
While more people reply and give me more opinions I'll just ask you some questions about that. Do you know where I can find blank PBT key caps that have the Fn row keys on the front? So for example the keys that come stock with the Poker II are perfect but I just want the TOP clear and the front side etched with the fn keys. Also, are the Poker II keys a different size than the norm that I need to watch out for when buying. One last thing, I'm considering switching to Colemak and was wondering, would the keys be compatible when moving them between rows or do different rows have different sizes?
Hmm I don't recall seeing a set with no alphas but fn layer are lasered, dyesubbed, etc. wasd would be able to do that but that's oem profile. I prefer cherry or DCS. HHKB is really nice but hard to find keysets for. My main reason for using MX after owning multiple Topre boards. It all comes down to what switch you like typing on. I have no experience with Colemak, someone can chime in hopefully. Also I've never had the stock caps, I believe they are oem profile. Bottom row is 1.25 mods. Remember that when looking for keysets. :)
Thank you for the informative reply! Can you explain what you mean by the bottom row is 1.25 mods? Also, have you ever owned and used an HHKB? If so, would you consider the key switches lighter or harder than the MX Browns and what are the Topres on the HHKB most similar to in terms of Cherry MX switches. To provide background, I DESPISE reds with a passion, I tried out blues and they're just a TAD bit too heavy and make too much noise, I love Cherry Browns (unless there are better ones...), and I haven't tried any others.
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Get the Poker II and a nice set of Cherry caps, you're welcome. ;)
While more people reply and give me more opinions I'll just ask you some questions about that. Do you know where I can find blank PBT key caps that have the Fn row keys on the front? So for example the keys that come stock with the Poker II are perfect but I just want the TOP clear and the front side etched with the fn keys. Also, are the Poker II keys a different size than the norm that I need to watch out for when buying. One last thing, I'm considering switching to Colemak and was wondering, would the keys be compatible when moving them between rows or do different rows have different sizes?
Hmm I don't recall seeing a set with no alphas but fn layer are lasered, dyesubbed, etc. wasd would be able to do that but that's oem profile. I prefer cherry or DCS. HHKB is really nice but hard to find keysets for. My main reason for using MX after owning multiple Topre boards. It all comes down to what switch you like typing on. I have no experience with Colemak, someone can chime in hopefully. Also I've never had the stock caps, I believe they are oem profile. Bottom row is 1.25 mods. Remember that when looking for keysets. :)
Thank you for the informative reply! Can you explain what you mean by the bottom row is 1.25 mods? Also, have you ever owned and used an HHKB? If so, would you consider the key switches lighter or harder than the MX Browns and what are the Topres on the HHKB most similar to in terms of Cherry MX switches. To provide background, I DESPISE reds with a passion, I tried out blues and they're just a TAD bit too heavy and make too much noise, I love Cherry Browns (unless there are better ones...), and I haven't tried any others.
1.25 mods = the size of modifier keys (Ctrl, Alt, Windows, etc keys on the spacebar row) which happens to be 1.25x the size of a base set (letter/ numerical/ F# function) keycap
I just received my poker II from massdrop yesterday. My daily driver is a HHKB.
My poker II happens to have mx browns and my HHKB has 45g topres; actuation force is about the same for both sans the tactile bump from the mx brown switch when it actuates mid stroke.
I happened to have taken the opportunity of installing 50A (durometer rating; a measure of stiffness/ hardness) o rings to its keycaps and noticed that the resulting bounce and reduced travel of them reminds me of the feel of the topre switches on my HHKB. You could say it's the poor man's topre.
As far as the layout goes, the layout of the poker is much more useful in my opinion and function keys are plentiful than the HHKB and the keyboard being programmable is also a big plus (the HHKB is not besides dip switches which the poker has as well). Not to mention it's dirt cheap compared to what I paid for my HHKB new.
With cherry MX stems, you'll be able to enjoy the many perks of custom keycaps, not to mention the accessories and cases that come are being made for the poker. That is not true for topre boards sadly due to a lack of popularity.
Coming off of a HHKB, I'm struggling to get used to the poker's function layer layout, especially the function key placement. :-[
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Get the Poker II and a nice set of Cherry caps, you're welcome. ;)
While more people reply and give me more opinions I'll just ask you some questions about that. Do you know where I can find blank PBT key caps that have the Fn row keys on the front? So for example the keys that come stock with the Poker II are perfect but I just want the TOP clear and the front side etched with the fn keys. Also, are the Poker II keys a different size than the norm that I need to watch out for when buying. One last thing, I'm considering switching to Colemak and was wondering, would the keys be compatible when moving them between rows or do different rows have different sizes?
Hmm I don't recall seeing a set with no alphas but fn layer are lasered, dyesubbed, etc. wasd would be able to do that but that's oem profile. I prefer cherry or DCS. HHKB is really nice but hard to find keysets for. My main reason for using MX after owning multiple Topre boards. It all comes down to what switch you like typing on. I have no experience with Colemak, someone can chime in hopefully. Also I've never had the stock caps, I believe they are oem profile. Bottom row is 1.25 mods. Remember that when looking for keysets. :)
Thank you for the informative reply! Can you explain what you mean by the bottom row is 1.25 mods? Also, have you ever owned and used an HHKB? If so, would you consider the key switches lighter or harder than the MX Browns and what are the Topres on the HHKB most similar to in terms of Cherry MX switches. To provide background, I DESPISE reds with a passion, I tried out blues and they're just a TAD bit too heavy and make too much noise, I love Cherry Browns (unless there are better ones...), and I haven't tried any others.
1.25 mods = the size of modifier keys (Ctrl, Alt, Windows, etc keys on the spacebar row) which happens to be 1.25x the size of a base set (letter/ numerical/ F# function) keycap
I just received my poker II from massdrop yesterday. My daily driver is a HHKB.
My poker II happens to have mx browns and my HHKB has 45g topres; actuation force is about the same for both sans the tactile bump from the mx brown switch when it actuates mid stroke.
I happened to have taken the opportunity of installing 50A (durometer rating; a measure of stiffness/ hardness) o rings to its keycaps and noticed that the resulting bounce and reduced travel of them reminds me of the feel of the topre switches on my HHKB. You could say it's the poor man's topre.
As far as the layout goes, the layout of the poker is much more useful in my opinion and function keys are plentiful than the HHKB and the keyboard being programmable is also a big plus (the HHKB is not besides dip switches which the poker has as well). Not to mention it's dirt cheap compared to what I paid for my HHKB new.
With cherry MX stems, you'll be able to enjoy the many perks of custom keycaps, not to mention the accessories and cases that come are being made for the poker. That is not true for topre boards sadly due to a lack of popularity.
Coming off of a HHKB, I'm struggling to get used to the poker's function layer layout, especially the function key placement. :-[
So is it worth me paying ~$140 extra for the HHKB? I don't plan on buying cases or accessories but I MIGHT buy blank keycaps if I feel like the Fn keys are useless but that shouldn't be a swaying factor in what keyboard I buy. I used to also have 50A o-rings but I HATED them (maybe I installed them wrong, but most likely not) because they made the key feel heavy for me (idk, its weird but it just doesn't flow with me). So would you say browns with 50A o-rings feel almost the same as the topres on the HHKB because if they do I know which board I'm buying.
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Get the Poker II and a nice set of Cherry caps, you're welcome. ;)
While more people reply and give me more opinions I'll just ask you some questions about that. Do you know where I can find blank PBT key caps that have the Fn row keys on the front? So for example the keys that come stock with the Poker II are perfect but I just want the TOP clear and the front side etched with the fn keys. Also, are the Poker II keys a different size than the norm that I need to watch out for when buying. One last thing, I'm considering switching to Colemak and was wondering, would the keys be compatible when moving them between rows or do different rows have different sizes?
Hmm I don't recall seeing a set with no alphas but fn layer are lasered, dyesubbed, etc. wasd would be able to do that but that's oem profile. I prefer cherry or DCS. HHKB is really nice but hard to find keysets for. My main reason for using MX after owning multiple Topre boards. It all comes down to what switch you like typing on. I have no experience with Colemak, someone can chime in hopefully. Also I've never had the stock caps, I believe they are oem profile. Bottom row is 1.25 mods. Remember that when looking for keysets. :)
Thank you for the informative reply! Can you explain what you mean by the bottom row is 1.25 mods? Also, have you ever owned and used an HHKB? If so, would you consider the key switches lighter or harder than the MX Browns and what are the Topres on the HHKB most similar to in terms of Cherry MX switches. To provide background, I DESPISE reds with a passion, I tried out blues and they're just a TAD bit too heavy and make too much noise, I love Cherry Browns (unless there are better ones...), and I haven't tried any others.
1.25 mods = the size of modifier keys (Ctrl, Alt, Windows, etc keys on the spacebar row) which happens to be 1.25x the size of a base set (letter/ numerical/ F# function) keycap
I just received my poker II from massdrop yesterday. My daily driver is a HHKB.
My poker II happens to have mx browns and my HHKB has 45g topres; actuation force is about the same for both sans the tactile bump from the mx brown switch when it actuates mid stroke.
I happened to have taken the opportunity of installing 50A (durometer rating; a measure of stiffness/ hardness) o rings to its keycaps and noticed that the resulting bounce and reduced travel of them reminds me of the feel of the topre switches on my HHKB. You could say it's the poor man's topre.
As far as the layout goes, the layout of the poker is much more useful in my opinion and function keys are plentiful than the HHKB and the keyboard being programmable is also a big plus (the HHKB is not besides dip switches which the poker has as well). Not to mention it's dirt cheap compared to what I paid for my HHKB new.
With cherry MX stems, you'll be able to enjoy the many perks of custom keycaps, not to mention the accessories and cases that come are being made for the poker. That is not true for topre boards sadly due to a lack of popularity.
Coming off of a HHKB, I'm struggling to get used to the poker's function layer layout, especially the function key placement. :-[
So is it worth me paying ~$140 extra for the HHKB? I don't plan on buying cases or accessories but I MIGHT buy blank keycaps if I feel like the Fn keys are useless but that shouldn't be a swaying factor in what keyboard I buy. I used to also have 50A o-rings but I HATED them (maybe I installed them wrong, but most likely not) because they made the key feel heavy for me (idk, its weird but it just doesn't flow with me). So would you say browns with 50A o-rings feel almost the same as the topres on the HHKB because if they do I know which board I'm buying.
As for the O-rings you installed them wrong it seems. You should not experience any sluggishness.
You're supposed to push them all the way to the bottom of the keycap stem for every single one. It's easiest to install them with a pointed nylon spadger. If you don't the o ring will roll along the stem of the keycap until it eventually settles at the bottom of the keycap stem.
As for if it's worth paying the extra $140, I'm going to look beyond my HHKB bias and say no. The HHKB is not worth it to be bought new; if you want one badly enough, try to get a used one off classifieds or ebay.
Mentioned before, I find the layout of the poker II to be much more useful and convenient with more physical keys and a much more generous function layer and etc. mentioned above; all the while being smaller than the HHKB but quite a few grams heavier than the HHKB.
Also the price point is quite attractive for what you get, a whole lot more bang for your buck. I paid less than $125 for my backlit poker w/ premium PBT caps & CA tax shipped to my door from massdrop. Sure, the deal might not be on any longer but the poker has been without a doubt one of the popular items there and *will* be offered once more in a month or 2 or 3. Oh yeah, you get a free key puller and set of doubleshot RGB modifiers thrown in with the poker. As for the HHKB, you get an empty box and instructions in Japanese.
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Get the Poker II and a nice set of Cherry caps, you're welcome. ;)
While more people reply and give me more opinions I'll just ask you some questions about that. Do you know where I can find blank PBT key caps that have the Fn row keys on the front? So for example the keys that come stock with the Poker II are perfect but I just want the TOP clear and the front side etched with the fn keys. Also, are the Poker II keys a different size than the norm that I need to watch out for when buying. One last thing, I'm considering switching to Colemak and was wondering, would the keys be compatible when moving them between rows or do different rows have different sizes?
Hmm I don't recall seeing a set with no alphas but fn layer are lasered, dyesubbed, etc. wasd would be able to do that but that's oem profile. I prefer cherry or DCS. HHKB is really nice but hard to find keysets for. My main reason for using MX after owning multiple Topre boards. It all comes down to what switch you like typing on. I have no experience with Colemak, someone can chime in hopefully. Also I've never had the stock caps, I believe they are oem profile. Bottom row is 1.25 mods. Remember that when looking for keysets. :)
Thank you for the informative reply! Can you explain what you mean by the bottom row is 1.25 mods? Also, have you ever owned and used an HHKB? If so, would you consider the key switches lighter or harder than the MX Browns and what are the Topres on the HHKB most similar to in terms of Cherry MX switches. To provide background, I DESPISE reds with a passion, I tried out blues and they're just a TAD bit too heavy and make too much noise, I love Cherry Browns (unless there are better ones...), and I haven't tried any others.
1.25 mods = the size of modifier keys (Ctrl, Alt, Windows, etc keys on the spacebar row) which happens to be 1.25x the size of a base set (letter/ numerical/ F# function) keycap
I just received my poker II from massdrop yesterday. My daily driver is a HHKB.
My poker II happens to have mx browns and my HHKB has 45g topres; actuation force is about the same for both sans the tactile bump from the mx brown switch when it actuates mid stroke.
I happened to have taken the opportunity of installing 50A (durometer rating; a measure of stiffness/ hardness) o rings to its keycaps and noticed that the resulting bounce and reduced travel of them reminds me of the feel of the topre switches on my HHKB. You could say it's the poor man's topre.
As far as the layout goes, the layout of the poker is much more useful in my opinion and function keys are plentiful than the HHKB and the keyboard being programmable is also a big plus (the HHKB is not besides dip switches which the poker has as well). Not to mention it's dirt cheap compared to what I paid for my HHKB new.
With cherry MX stems, you'll be able to enjoy the many perks of custom keycaps, not to mention the accessories and cases that come are being made for the poker. That is not true for topre boards sadly due to a lack of popularity.
Coming off of a HHKB, I'm struggling to get used to the poker's function layer layout, especially the function key placement. :-[
So is it worth me paying ~$140 extra for the HHKB? I don't plan on buying cases or accessories but I MIGHT buy blank keycaps if I feel like the Fn keys are useless but that shouldn't be a swaying factor in what keyboard I buy. I used to also have 50A o-rings but I HATED them (maybe I installed them wrong, but most likely not) because they made the key feel heavy for me (idk, its weird but it just doesn't flow with me). So would you say browns with 50A o-rings feel almost the same as the topres on the HHKB because if they do I know which board I'm buying.
As for the O-rings you installed them wrong it seems. You should not experience any sluggishness.
You're supposed to push them all the way to the bottom of the keycap stem for every single one. It's easiest to install them with a pointed nylon spadger. If you don't the o ring will roll along the stem of the keycap until it eventually settles at the bottom of the keycap stem.
As for if it's worth paying the extra $140, I'm going to look beyond my HHKB bias and say no. The HHKB is not worth it to be bought new; if you want one badly enough, try to get a used one off classifieds or ebay.
Mentioned before, I find the layout of the poker II to be much more useful and convenient with more physical keys and a much more generous function layer and etc. mentioned above; all the while being smaller than the HHKB but quite a few grams heavier than the HHKB.
Also the price point is quite attractive for what you get, a whole lot more bang for your buck. I paid less than $125 for my backlit poker w/ premium PBT caps & CA tax shipped to my door from massdrop. Sure, the deal might not be on any longer but the poker has been without a doubt one of the popular items there and *will* be offered once more in a month or 2 or 3. Oh yeah, you get a free key puller and set of doubleshot RGB modifiers thrown in with the poker. As for the HHKB, you get an empty box and instructions in Japanese.
It seems I installed them right, I did do that, it took me 5 hours to get then all on correctly and double checking and triple checking. If I do decide to buy from classifieds or eBay, what's a good price for a used HHKB Pro 2 and what's a price point that I shouldn't buy if it's used? Also, for your version is the backlighting permanent or controllable? If I do decide to buy the Poker 2 do you know of a white, blank key set that has the Mac keys or is "made for Mac"?
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Get the Poker II and a nice set of Cherry caps, you're welcome. ;)
While more people reply and give me more opinions I'll just ask you some questions about that. Do you know where I can find blank PBT key caps that have the Fn row keys on the front? So for example the keys that come stock with the Poker II are perfect but I just want the TOP clear and the front side etched with the fn keys. Also, are the Poker II keys a different size than the norm that I need to watch out for when buying. One last thing, I'm considering switching to Colemak and was wondering, would the keys be compatible when moving them between rows or do different rows have different sizes?
Hmm I don't recall seeing a set with no alphas but fn layer are lasered, dyesubbed, etc. wasd would be able to do that but that's oem profile. I prefer cherry or DCS. HHKB is really nice but hard to find keysets for. My main reason for using MX after owning multiple Topre boards. It all comes down to what switch you like typing on. I have no experience with Colemak, someone can chime in hopefully. Also I've never had the stock caps, I believe they are oem profile. Bottom row is 1.25 mods. Remember that when looking for keysets. :)
Thank you for the informative reply! Can you explain what you mean by the bottom row is 1.25 mods? Also, have you ever owned and used an HHKB? If so, would you consider the key switches lighter or harder than the MX Browns and what are the Topres on the HHKB most similar to in terms of Cherry MX switches. To provide background, I DESPISE reds with a passion, I tried out blues and they're just a TAD bit too heavy and make too much noise, I love Cherry Browns (unless there are better ones...), and I haven't tried any others.
1.25 mods = the size of modifier keys (Ctrl, Alt, Windows, etc keys on the spacebar row) which happens to be 1.25x the size of a base set (letter/ numerical/ F# function) keycap
I just received my poker II from massdrop yesterday. My daily driver is a HHKB.
My poker II happens to have mx browns and my HHKB has 45g topres; actuation force is about the same for both sans the tactile bump from the mx brown switch when it actuates mid stroke.
I happened to have taken the opportunity of installing 50A (durometer rating; a measure of stiffness/ hardness) o rings to its keycaps and noticed that the resulting bounce and reduced travel of them reminds me of the feel of the topre switches on my HHKB. You could say it's the poor man's topre.
As far as the layout goes, the layout of the poker is much more useful in my opinion and function keys are plentiful than the HHKB and the keyboard being programmable is also a big plus (the HHKB is not besides dip switches which the poker has as well). Not to mention it's dirt cheap compared to what I paid for my HHKB new.
With cherry MX stems, you'll be able to enjoy the many perks of custom keycaps, not to mention the accessories and cases that come are being made for the poker. That is not true for topre boards sadly due to a lack of popularity.
Coming off of a HHKB, I'm struggling to get used to the poker's function layer layout, especially the function key placement. :-[
So is it worth me paying ~$140 extra for the HHKB? I don't plan on buying cases or accessories but I MIGHT buy blank keycaps if I feel like the Fn keys are useless but that shouldn't be a swaying factor in what keyboard I buy. I used to also have 50A o-rings but I HATED them (maybe I installed them wrong, but most likely not) because they made the key feel heavy for me (idk, its weird but it just doesn't flow with me). So would you say browns with 50A o-rings feel almost the same as the topres on the HHKB because if they do I know which board I'm buying.
As for the O-rings you installed them wrong it seems. You should not experience any sluggishness.
You're supposed to push them all the way to the bottom of the keycap stem for every single one. It's easiest to install them with a pointed nylon spadger. If you don't the o ring will roll along the stem of the keycap until it eventually settles at the bottom of the keycap stem.
As for if it's worth paying the extra $140, I'm going to look beyond my HHKB bias and say no. The HHKB is not worth it to be bought new; if you want one badly enough, try to get a used one off classifieds or ebay.
Mentioned before, I find the layout of the poker II to be much more useful and convenient with more physical keys and a much more generous function layer and etc. mentioned above; all the while being smaller than the HHKB but quite a few grams heavier than the HHKB.
Also the price point is quite attractive for what you get, a whole lot more bang for your buck. I paid less than $125 for my backlit poker w/ premium PBT caps & CA tax shipped to my door from massdrop. Sure, the deal might not be on any longer but the poker has been without a doubt one of the popular items there and *will* be offered once more in a month or 2 or 3. Oh yeah, you get a free key puller and set of doubleshot RGB modifiers thrown in with the poker. As for the HHKB, you get an empty box and instructions in Japanese.
It seems I installed them right, I did do that, it took me 5 hours to get then all on correctly and double checking and triple checking. If I do decide to buy from classifieds or eBay, what's a good price for a used HHKB Pro 2 and what's a price point that I shouldn't buy if it's used? Also, for your version is the backlighting permanent or controllable? If I do decide to buy the Poker 2 do you know of a blank key set that has the Mac keys or is "made for Mac"?
As for second hand prices, I would first do some research to check market conditions of the 2nd hand market. You can do this on ebay via "Advanced Search" which is located next to the blue search button at the top and check the radio box for "sold listings" under "Search including". But a good benchmark to go by is ~75% new MSRP for a mint condition HHKB as they happen to be highly sought out and used ones don't appear often. HHKB's w/ printed caps will be more desirable than ones with blanks and will sell for more due to HHKB virgins. Also, the dark grey one is preferred more than the white one.
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Get the Poker II and a nice set of Cherry caps, you're welcome. ;)
While more people reply and give me more opinions I'll just ask you some questions about that. Do you know where I can find blank PBT key caps that have the Fn row keys on the front? So for example the keys that come stock with the Poker II are perfect but I just want the TOP clear and the front side etched with the fn keys. Also, are the Poker II keys a different size than the norm that I need to watch out for when buying. One last thing, I'm considering switching to Colemak and was wondering, would the keys be compatible when moving them between rows or do different rows have different sizes?
Hmm I don't recall seeing a set with no alphas but fn layer are lasered, dyesubbed, etc. wasd would be able to do that but that's oem profile. I prefer cherry or DCS. HHKB is really nice but hard to find keysets for. My main reason for using MX after owning multiple Topre boards. It all comes down to what switch you like typing on. I have no experience with Colemak, someone can chime in hopefully. Also I've never had the stock caps, I believe they are oem profile. Bottom row is 1.25 mods. Remember that when looking for keysets. :)
Thank you for the informative reply! Can you explain what you mean by the bottom row is 1.25 mods? Also, have you ever owned and used an HHKB? If so, would you consider the key switches lighter or harder than the MX Browns and what are the Topres on the HHKB most similar to in terms of Cherry MX switches. To provide background, I DESPISE reds with a passion, I tried out blues and they're just a TAD bit too heavy and make too much noise, I love Cherry Browns (unless there are better ones...), and I haven't tried any others.
1.25 mods = the size of modifier keys (Ctrl, Alt, Windows, etc keys on the spacebar row) which happens to be 1.25x the size of a base set (letter/ numerical/ F# function) keycap
I just received my poker II from massdrop yesterday. My daily driver is a HHKB.
My poker II happens to have mx browns and my HHKB has 45g topres; actuation force is about the same for both sans the tactile bump from the mx brown switch when it actuates mid stroke.
I happened to have taken the opportunity of installing 50A (durometer rating; a measure of stiffness/ hardness) o rings to its keycaps and noticed that the resulting bounce and reduced travel of them reminds me of the feel of the topre switches on my HHKB. You could say it's the poor man's topre.
As far as the layout goes, the layout of the poker is much more useful in my opinion and function keys are plentiful than the HHKB and the keyboard being programmable is also a big plus (the HHKB is not besides dip switches which the poker has as well). Not to mention it's dirt cheap compared to what I paid for my HHKB new.
With cherry MX stems, you'll be able to enjoy the many perks of custom keycaps, not to mention the accessories and cases that come are being made for the poker. That is not true for topre boards sadly due to a lack of popularity.
Coming off of a HHKB, I'm struggling to get used to the poker's function layer layout, especially the function key placement. :-[
So is it worth me paying ~$140 extra for the HHKB? I don't plan on buying cases or accessories but I MIGHT buy blank keycaps if I feel like the Fn keys are useless but that shouldn't be a swaying factor in what keyboard I buy. I used to also have 50A o-rings but I HATED them (maybe I installed them wrong, but most likely not) because they made the key feel heavy for me (idk, its weird but it just doesn't flow with me). So would you say browns with 50A o-rings feel almost the same as the topres on the HHKB because if they do I know which board I'm buying.
As for the O-rings you installed them wrong it seems. You should not experience any sluggishness.
You're supposed to push them all the way to the bottom of the keycap stem for every single one. It's easiest to install them with a pointed nylon spadger. If you don't the o ring will roll along the stem of the keycap until it eventually settles at the bottom of the keycap stem.
As for if it's worth paying the extra $140, I'm going to look beyond my HHKB bias and say no. The HHKB is not worth it to be bought new; if you want one badly enough, try to get a used one off classifieds or ebay.
Mentioned before, I find the layout of the poker II to be much more useful and convenient with more physical keys and a much more generous function layer and etc. mentioned above; all the while being smaller than the HHKB but quite a few grams heavier than the HHKB.
Also the price point is quite attractive for what you get, a whole lot more bang for your buck. I paid less than $125 for my backlit poker w/ premium PBT caps & CA tax shipped to my door from massdrop. Sure, the deal might not be on any longer but the poker has been without a doubt one of the popular items there and *will* be offered once more in a month or 2 or 3. Oh yeah, you get a free key puller and set of doubleshot RGB modifiers thrown in with the poker. As for the HHKB, you get an empty box and instructions in Japanese.
It seems I installed them right, I did do that, it took me 5 hours to get then all on correctly and double checking and triple checking. If I do decide to buy from classifieds or eBay, what's a good price for a used HHKB Pro 2 and what's a price point that I shouldn't buy if it's used? Also, for your version is the backlighting permanent or controllable? If I do decide to buy the Poker 2 do you know of a blank key set that has the Mac keys or is "made for Mac"?
As for second hand prices, I would first do some research to check market conditions of the 2nd hand market. You can do this on ebay via "Advanced Search" which is located next to the blue search button at the top and check the radio box for "sold listings" under "Search including". But a good benchmark to go by is ~75% new MSRP for a mint condition HHKB as they happen to be highly sought out and used ones don't appear often. HHKB's w/ printed caps will be more desirable than ones with blanks and will sell for more due to HHKB virgins. Also, the dark grey one is preferred more than the white one.
So I've decided on Poker II MX Browns. Do you know anything about those blank key sets that I referred to before?
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Get the Poker II and a nice set of Cherry caps, you're welcome. ;)
While more people reply and give me more opinions I'll just ask you some questions about that. Do you know where I can find blank PBT key caps that have the Fn row keys on the front? So for example the keys that come stock with the Poker II are perfect but I just want the TOP clear and the front side etched with the fn keys. Also, are the Poker II keys a different size than the norm that I need to watch out for when buying. One last thing, I'm considering switching to Colemak and was wondering, would the keys be compatible when moving them between rows or do different rows have different sizes?
Hmm I don't recall seeing a set with no alphas but fn layer are lasered, dyesubbed, etc. wasd would be able to do that but that's oem profile. I prefer cherry or DCS. HHKB is really nice but hard to find keysets for. My main reason for using MX after owning multiple Topre boards. It all comes down to what switch you like typing on. I have no experience with Colemak, someone can chime in hopefully. Also I've never had the stock caps, I believe they are oem profile. Bottom row is 1.25 mods. Remember that when looking for keysets. :)
Thank you for the informative reply! Can you explain what you mean by the bottom row is 1.25 mods? Also, have you ever owned and used an HHKB? If so, would you consider the key switches lighter or harder than the MX Browns and what are the Topres on the HHKB most similar to in terms of Cherry MX switches. To provide background, I DESPISE reds with a passion, I tried out blues and they're just a TAD bit too heavy and make too much noise, I love Cherry Browns (unless there are better ones...), and I haven't tried any others.
1.25 mods = the size of modifier keys (Ctrl, Alt, Windows, etc keys on the spacebar row) which happens to be 1.25x the size of a base set (letter/ numerical/ F# function) keycap
I just received my poker II from massdrop yesterday. My daily driver is a HHKB.
My poker II happens to have mx browns and my HHKB has 45g topres; actuation force is about the same for both sans the tactile bump from the mx brown switch when it actuates mid stroke.
I happened to have taken the opportunity of installing 50A (durometer rating; a measure of stiffness/ hardness) o rings to its keycaps and noticed that the resulting bounce and reduced travel of them reminds me of the feel of the topre switches on my HHKB. You could say it's the poor man's topre.
As far as the layout goes, the layout of the poker is much more useful in my opinion and function keys are plentiful than the HHKB and the keyboard being programmable is also a big plus (the HHKB is not besides dip switches which the poker has as well). Not to mention it's dirt cheap compared to what I paid for my HHKB new.
With cherry MX stems, you'll be able to enjoy the many perks of custom keycaps, not to mention the accessories and cases that come are being made for the poker. That is not true for topre boards sadly due to a lack of popularity.
Coming off of a HHKB, I'm struggling to get used to the poker's function layer layout, especially the function key placement. :-[
So is it worth me paying ~$140 extra for the HHKB? I don't plan on buying cases or accessories but I MIGHT buy blank keycaps if I feel like the Fn keys are useless but that shouldn't be a swaying factor in what keyboard I buy. I used to also have 50A o-rings but I HATED them (maybe I installed them wrong, but most likely not) because they made the key feel heavy for me (idk, its weird but it just doesn't flow with me). So would you say browns with 50A o-rings feel almost the same as the topres on the HHKB because if they do I know which board I'm buying.
As for the O-rings you installed them wrong it seems. You should not experience any sluggishness.
You're supposed to push them all the way to the bottom of the keycap stem for every single one. It's easiest to install them with a pointed nylon spadger. If you don't the o ring will roll along the stem of the keycap until it eventually settles at the bottom of the keycap stem.
As for if it's worth paying the extra $140, I'm going to look beyond my HHKB bias and say no. The HHKB is not worth it to be bought new; if you want one badly enough, try to get a used one off classifieds or ebay.
Mentioned before, I find the layout of the poker II to be much more useful and convenient with more physical keys and a much more generous function layer and etc. mentioned above; all the while being smaller than the HHKB but quite a few grams heavier than the HHKB.
Also the price point is quite attractive for what you get, a whole lot more bang for your buck. I paid less than $125 for my backlit poker w/ premium PBT caps & CA tax shipped to my door from massdrop. Sure, the deal might not be on any longer but the poker has been without a doubt one of the popular items there and *will* be offered once more in a month or 2 or 3. Oh yeah, you get a free key puller and set of doubleshot RGB modifiers thrown in with the poker. As for the HHKB, you get an empty box and instructions in Japanese.
It seems I installed them right, I did do that, it took me 5 hours to get then all on correctly and double checking and triple checking. If I do decide to buy from classifieds or eBay, what's a good price for a used HHKB Pro 2 and what's a price point that I shouldn't buy if it's used? Also, for your version is the backlighting permanent or controllable? If I do decide to buy the Poker 2 do you know of a blank key set that has the Mac keys or is "made for Mac"?
As for second hand prices, I would first do some research to check market conditions of the 2nd hand market. You can do this on ebay via "Advanced Search" which is located next to the blue search button at the top and check the radio box for "sold listings" under "Search including". But a good benchmark to go by is ~75% new MSRP for a mint condition HHKB as they happen to be highly sought out and used ones don't appear often. HHKB's w/ printed caps will be more desirable than ones with blanks and will sell for more due to HHKB virgins. Also, the dark grey one is preferred more than the white one.
So I've decided on Poker II MX Browns. Do you know anything about those blank key sets that I referred to before?
Oops missed some parts above.
The backlight is totally controllable with a generous 7 or so different levels of brightness.
A blank keycap set is blank, there's absolutely nothing printed on the caps. As for a printed set, mac keys being included are uncommon, however with some groupbuys for keycaps, there often are optional mac keys that cost extra.
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You should look into the massdrop GB for poker w/clears. If you despise the reds, I would assume you want something with the tactile bump and requiring more force.
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You should look into the massdrop GB for poker w/clears. If you despise the reds, I would assume you want something with the tactile bump and requiring more force.
But I love the Browns.
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Then go with the browns :thumb:
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I was recently trying to decide between Poker II and HHKB. I do think the HHKB looks very ergonomic and I like how it looks almost symmetrical. In the end I went with Poker II because I'm more familiar with the layout and Cherry switches. I'm hoping to receive my Poker II in the mail next week... though I'd still be interested in a HHKB down the road... :)
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Then go with the browns :thumb:
On the HHKB, what do the Topres most feel like in terms of lightness? The Red actuation? The Blue? The Black? I find the Red to light and I'd assume the Blacks are too heavy, would you know how light/heavy the topres on the HHKB are and what color cherry switch they are most comparable to/similar to?
I was recently trying to decide between Poker II and HHKB. I do think the HHKB looks very ergonomic and I like how it looks almost symmetrical. In the end I went with Poker II because I'm more familiar with the layout and Cherry switches. I'm hoping to receive my Poker II in the mail next week... though I'd still be interested in a HHKB down the road... :)
When you get the Poker II next week would you be able to post a review or just pm me/post here about your experience with it and if its good or not? Also, you say it looks ergonomic, is it actually more ergonomic than the Poker II?
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When you get the Poker II next week would you be able to post a review or just pm me/post here about your experience with it and if its good or not? Also, you say it looks ergonomic, is it actually more ergonomic than the Poker II?
Sure. I'll PM you my thoughts about it, it won't be super detailed because there's already a few in-depth reviews of it.
When I mentioned ergonomic maybe it's more of my personal opinion, less pinky strain because you're not reaching so far for Ctrl. I've played guitar for about 12 years so sometimes my pinky hurts when reaching too far lol.
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Then go with the browns :thumb:
On the HHKB, what do the Topres most feel like in terms of lightness? The Red actuation? The Blue? The Black? I find the Red to light and I'd assume the Blacks are too heavy, would you know how light/heavy the topres on the HHKB are and what color cherry switch they are most comparable to/similar to?
I was recently trying to decide between Poker II and HHKB. I do think the HHKB looks very ergonomic and I like how it looks almost symmetrical. In the end I went with Poker II because I'm more familiar with the layout and Cherry switches. I'm hoping to receive my Poker II in the mail next week... though I'd still be interested in a HHKB down the road... :)
When you get the Poker II next week would you be able to post a review or just pm me/post here about your experience with it and if its good or not? Also, you say it looks ergonomic, is it actually more ergonomic than the Poker II?
To me, hhkb feels a tad heavier than mx red.
Now with the ergonomics, the expectancy for people is that the poker is simply a cutoff from a regular board so it seems easier to get used to, so I can see why people gravitate towards it.
Can't compare them, since I never tried poker layout, but ctrl being in the caps lock place and FN being not in the bottom, makes the ctrl,arrow,F key shorctuts much nicer(than tkl) to use since you don't need to move your elbows. Same goes with the arrow keys. That no elbow movement is a really nice aspect of the hhkb. Don't know if $150 nice, but nice anyways.
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When you get the Poker II next week would you be able to post a review or just pm me/post here about your experience with it and if its good or not? Also, you say it looks ergonomic, is it actually more ergonomic than the Poker II?
Sure. I'll PM you my thoughts about it, it won't be super detailed because there's already a few in-depth reviews of it.
When I mentioned ergonomic maybe it's more of my personal opinion, less pinky strain because you're not reaching so far for Ctrl. I've played guitar for about 12 years so sometimes my pinky hurts when reaching too far lol.
Okay thanks!
Then go with the browns :thumb:
On the HHKB, what do the Topres most feel like in terms of lightness? The Red actuation? The Blue? The Black? I find the Red to light and I'd assume the Blacks are too heavy, would you know how light/heavy the topres on the HHKB are and what color cherry switch they are most comparable to/similar to?
I was recently trying to decide between Poker II and HHKB. I do think the HHKB looks very ergonomic and I like how it looks almost symmetrical. In the end I went with Poker II because I'm more familiar with the layout and Cherry switches. I'm hoping to receive my Poker II in the mail next week... though I'd still be interested in a HHKB down the road... :)
When you get the Poker II next week would you be able to post a review or just pm me/post here about your experience with it and if its good or not? Also, you say it looks ergonomic, is it actually more ergonomic than the Poker II?
To me, hhkb feels a tad heavier than mx red.
Now with the ergonomics, the expectancy for people is that the poker is simply a cutoff from a regular board so it seems easier to get used to, so I can see why people gravitate towards it.
Can't compare them, since I never tried poker layout, but ctrl being in the caps lock place and FN being not in the bottom, makes the ctrl,arrow,F key shorctuts much nicer(than tkl) to use since you don't need to move your elbows. Same goes with the arrow keys. That no elbow movement is a really nice aspect of the hhkb. Don't know if $150 nice, but nice anyways.
So would you say that the Browns and the Topres on HHKB are similar? Also, do you know if the HHKB is Colemak friendly (when moving the keys around)?
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I would not say they are similar, although my mx brown experience ends with clicking a single switch.
I don't think there is a ghetto topre made from mx. The behaviour is totally different.
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I would not say they are similar, although my mx brown experience ends with clicking a single switch.
I don't think there is a ghetto topre made from mx. The behaviour is totally different.
Okay thanks!
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Yes I've had HHKB 45g and 55g lubed, unlubed, dental banded. I've had Leopold fc660 45g, lubed unlubed dental banded. Realforce 87u variable, 45g, 55g, lubed unlubed dental banded.
My favorite is poker w clears, lubed, orings, aluminum case, cherry profile pbt dyesub keys.
It's tough to compare topre to MX it's way different. I love the bump In MX switches, aluminum cases, and the keysets. Good luck!
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Yes I've had HHKB 45g and 55g lubed, unlubed, dental banded. I've had Leopold fc660 45g, lubed unlubed dental banded. Realforce 87u variable, 45g, 55g, lubed unlubed dental banded.
My favorite is poker w clears, lubed, orings, aluminum case, cherry profile pbt dyesub keys.
It's tough to compare topre to MX it's way different. I love the bump In MX switches, aluminum cases, and the keysets. Good luck!
What is dental banding and what exactly does lubing do?
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Yes I've had HHKB 45g and 55g lubed, unlubed, dental banded. I've had Leopold fc660 45g, lubed unlubed dental banded. Realforce 87u variable, 45g, 55g, lubed unlubed dental banded.
My favorite is poker w clears, lubed, orings, aluminum case, cherry profile pbt dyesub keys.
It's tough to compare topre to MX it's way different. I love the bump In MX switches, aluminum cases, and the keysets. Good luck!
What is dental banding and what exactly does lubing do?
Dental banding is placing dental bands - little rubber bands usually used for dental braces - onto the sliders, kinda like O-rings for MX keycaps.
Lubing makes the sliders move much more smoothly.
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Is there any actual difference between the two keyboards that constitutes such a large price difference?
I find it highly strange that you compare the two, they are in completely different categories. I'm assuming you're comparing the two because they're both 60% boards? is that why? Maybe, anyways, I'll try and answer your question.
Differences:
* Poker looks/feels cheap whereas the HHKB does not.
* Topre vs Cherry MX (I'll leave you to Google this one, but it's all down to personal preference in regards to which one you would like the most)
* You're investing in a niche market, where the buyer pays the high prices because it's like I said, a very niche market.
* The build quality is completely different.
* The HHKB also has more features such as; a dip switch (allows you change the functions of the keyboard, e.g. delete to backspace, etc, 2 usb ports and uses a detachable usb cable. whereas the Poker has none of these features).
I've currently got a HHKB coming on Monday/Tuesday, so that's that, but I asked a friend for a bit of background regarding this topic and what not. I've also owned a Poker II but I sent it back as I didn't like it, but at the end of the day, it's always going to be down to personal preference.
Do you prefer cherry mx? do you prefer the look of the poker over the hhkb? then I guess it would be settled, get the Poker II and save yourself some money, but if that doesn't apply but it applies to the HHKB? then spend some more money and get the HHKB, the choice is always yours.
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Differences:
* Poker looks/feels cheap whereas the HHKB does not.
* Topre vs Cherry MX (I'll leave you to Google this one, but it's all down to personal preference in regards to which one you would like the most)
* You're investing in a niche market, where the buyer pays the high prices because it's like I said, a very niche market.
* The build quality is completely different.
* The HHKB also has more features such as; a dip switch (allows you change the functions of the keyboard, e.g. delete to backspace, etc, 2 usb ports and uses a detachable usb cable. whereas the Poker has none of these features).
There's a few things wrong here..
The Poker 2 looking/feeling "cheap" is more of an opinion. Keys are mounted on a metal plate which prevents any kind of flexing. The non-led version comes with thick PBT keycaps.
It does have dip switches: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36434.0
Poker 2 also has a detachable USB cable.
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Differences:
* Poker looks/feels cheap whereas the HHKB does not.
* Topre vs Cherry MX (I'll leave you to Google this one, but it's all down to personal preference in regards to which one you would like the most)
* You're investing in a niche market, where the buyer pays the high prices because it's like I said, a very niche market.
* The build quality is completely different.
* The HHKB also has more features such as; a dip switch (allows you change the functions of the keyboard, e.g. delete to backspace, etc, 2 usb ports and uses a detachable usb cable. whereas the Poker has none of these features).
There's a few things wrong here..
The Poker 2 looking/feeling "cheap" is more of an opinion. Keys are mounted on a metal plate which prevents any kind of flexing. The non-led version comes with thick PBT keycaps.
It does have dip switches: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36434.0
Poker 2 also has a detachable USB cable.
To me hhkb feels WAY cheaper, it's all plastic man lol
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Differences:
* Poker looks/feels cheap whereas the HHKB does not.
* Topre vs Cherry MX (I'll leave you to Google this one, but it's all down to personal preference in regards to which one you would like the most)
* You're investing in a niche market, where the buyer pays the high prices because it's like I said, a very niche market.
* The build quality is completely different.
* The HHKB also has more features such as; a dip switch (allows you change the functions of the keyboard, e.g. delete to backspace, etc, 2 usb ports and uses a detachable usb cable. whereas the Poker has none of these features).
There's a few things wrong here..
The Poker 2 looking/feeling "cheap" is more of an opinion. Keys are mounted on a metal plate which prevents any kind of flexing. The non-led version comes with thick PBT keycaps.
It does have dip switches: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36434.0
Poker 2 also has a detachable USB cable.
To me hhkb feels WAY cheaper, it's all plastic man lol
Especially if you get aluminium case for Poker!
But then ... get aluminium case for HHKB ;)
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Differences:
* Poker looks/feels cheap whereas the HHKB does not.
* Topre vs Cherry MX (I'll leave you to Google this one, but it's all down to personal preference in regards to which one you would like the most)
* You're investing in a niche market, where the buyer pays the high prices because it's like I said, a very niche market.
* The build quality is completely different.
* The HHKB also has more features such as; a dip switch (allows you change the functions of the keyboard, e.g. delete to backspace, etc, 2 usb ports and uses a detachable usb cable. whereas the Poker has none of these features).
There's a few things wrong here..
The Poker 2 looking/feeling "cheap" is more of an opinion. Keys are mounted on a metal plate which prevents any kind of flexing. The non-led version comes with thick PBT keycaps.
It does have dip switches: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36434.0
Poker 2 also has a detachable USB cable.
To me hhkb feels WAY cheaper, it's all plastic man lol
Especially if you get aluminium case for Poker!
But then ... get aluminium case for HHKB ;)
Yeah man if digilog or someone else made a low profile aluminum case for hhkb and a steel plate I'd still have mine.
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As a relatively new owner of a HHKB and having owned a korean custom for a month or two, I can testify that I'd rather be using an aluminium keyboard just for the stability
This HHKB feels like a feather and moves around a lot, especially on a mat
Build quality is passable, for a plastic keyboard; maybe it's just me, but I can't stand the springy noises that the keyboard has at times
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I have my HHKBon a folded wad of drawer liner (about 8 sheets thick, for the record).
It actually makes the HHKB a lot quieter, and much more stable.
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Differences:
* Poker looks/feels cheap whereas the HHKB does not.
* Topre vs Cherry MX (I'll leave you to Google this one, but it's all down to personal preference in regards to which one you would like the most)
* You're investing in a niche market, where the buyer pays the high prices because it's like I said, a very niche market.
* The build quality is completely different.
* The HHKB also has more features such as; a dip switch (allows you change the functions of the keyboard, e.g. delete to backspace, etc, 2 usb ports and uses a detachable usb cable. whereas the Poker has none of these features).
There's a few things wrong here..
The Poker 2 looking/feeling "cheap" is more of an opinion. Keys are mounted on a metal plate which prevents any kind of flexing. The non-led version comes with thick PBT keycaps.
It does have dip switches: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36434.0 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36434.0)
Poker 2 also has a detachable USB cable.
I must be mistaken about the detatchable cable, and it just looks cheap, just look at it. But heh, that's my opinion.
Compact size with European ISO layout[/size]Three backlight mode - Gaming?Full?Vitality[/color]
[/size]Selectable Backlit Key field 5-levels of brightness[/color]
[/size]Faceplate mount & PCB mount[/color]
[/size]2-Layer PCB[/color]
[/size]Ultra compact Layout t[/color]
[/size]N-Key Rollover in USB interface[/color]
[/size]Doesn't have a dipswitch, what so ever.[/color]
Maybe you're thinking about the KBC Poker?
http://deskthority.net/review-f45/kbc-poker-sixty-s-take-t125.html
I didn't ave a dip switch when I ordered mine, but heh, as previously stated, these are just my personal views, you think the hhkb feels cheap? then fair play to you, each to their own.
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Oh yes, metal cases are a must for HHKB. Considering how much HHKB owners are willing to spend, I don't know why haven't made them yet and charge commanding prices (which people will pay*).
As a relatively new owner of a HHKB and having owned a korean custom for a month or two, I can testify that I'd rather be using an aluminium keyboard just for the stability
This HHKB feels like a feather and moves around a lot, especially on a mat
Build quality is passable, for a plastic keyboard; maybe it's just me, but I can't stand the springy noises that the keyboard has at times
Haha agreed.
One of my irks about the HHKB is how they make such a light keyboard, they put 2 teeny tiny mediocre anti-slip pads at the front and absolutely nothing in terms grip toward the back near the feet.
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I have both I prefer the hhkb
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I have both, the Poker II and the HHKB Pro 2 (black with white alphas and black mods). After I got the HHKB, I put the Poker II into its box and back on the shelf. Then I got a second HHKB for work.
Things I like and dislike about the two boards:
Poker II likes: 60% form factor, standard layout, Cherry-compatible keycaps, standard keycap sizes, programmable.
Poker II dislikes: Cannot remap Fn and Pn. Don't like the sound or feel of Cherry switches (tried black, blue, brown, and green) and Cherry stabilizers.
HHKB likes: 60% form factor, HHKB layout (the best there is, IMO), dye-sub PBT keycaps, Topre switches, overall design, styling, symmetry, and feel.
HHKB dislikes: might prefer 55g switches, might prefer Type-S switches (but expensive, and not available with black case), might prefer steel plate-mounted switches to case-mounted switches.
Although the list of dislikes for the HHKB seems long, it is really a list of possible preferences rather than actual dislikes. Overall, I much prefer the HHKB to the Poker II. The HHKB is just more appealing on every level, including appearance, sound, feel, and layout.
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You could always get the rubber dome version of the HHKB and try the layout on that out.
I got one here for $20.
Been using it more lately and I do find the layout quite nice.
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If you plan to ever replace the keycaps (this is a big one in my book, just look at all the awesome keycap sets in the Media or Group Buys section), buy the Poker II. If you like Browns, buy the Poker II. If you aren't sure if you'll like the layout, buy the Poker II (programmable, so you can make your own layout).
If you want a plastic rubber dome board with a weird layout that can't be changed and you never want to try different keycaps, buy the HHKB Pro II. ;)
For those with Poker II's saying you can't remap Fn or Pn, did you read the manual? Using a combination of the DIP switches and programming you can set the Fn to a number of different places and completely remap the Fn layer. For instance, you can use Caps (or left Win key) as a Fn modifier (which I recommend trying) with Sw1 and Sw3. Then you can program Fn+key to be whatever you want it to be, so you can reprogram the entire Fn layer. If you want to try Colemak or Dvorak or even your own crazy layout, you can program the layout on the Pn layer and then toggle it to be the visible layer. So you can reprogram both layers of the board completely except for the placement of the Pn key and you can put the Fn key in 3 different positions.
The switches feel very different. HHKB domes and springs have a different force profile. The point of highest pressure is right near at the top of the stroke and they "collapse" more quickly than tactile MX and only regain decent return pressure near the bottom of the stroke. They are softer than MX Browns and Reds, the 55g versions are a little harder than Browns and Reds. I'd recommend you try a cheaper Topre board to see if you like the switches before shelling out for an HHKB.
The HHKB is light and easy to carry around. The Poker II is more hefty and solid, steel plate helps. Poker II comes with thicker PBT caps than the HHKB.
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HHKB is better
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60994.0
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Both the Poker II and HHKB Pro 2 have their place. In my case, the place for the HHKB is on my desk.
Seriously, however, each of these boards have some definite strong points, and it comes down to personal preferences. My own preference is that I do not like the sound/feel of the Cherry mx switches I have tried (black, blue, brown, green); I prefer Topre over Cherry. In addition, although the Poker is programmable, I found the HHKB layout to be perfect for me with no adjustments other than what could be achieved with DIP switches.
Overall, perhaps including reasons that I cannot readily define, the HHKB is the 60% keyboard that I actually use, whereas the Poker is the one that I keep on the shelf to decorate with nice keycaps and bring out once in a while, only to realize all over again that I prefer to use the HHKB.
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I have my HHKB Pro 2 on a SteelSeries Gaming Mouse Pad and it stays in place and feels comfortable. I love the layout and use the keyboard whenever I'm at my desk. I'm not totally convinced its worth the extra $. It doesn't seem like its quality matches however much more it costs than a some 60% Cherry setups. I do like it more than other keyboards I've used. It's legitimately my favorite. I just don't know if it's THAT much better. It's in a league of it's own, though, and hard to compare.
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I have my HHKB Pro 2 on a SteelSeries Gaming Mouse Pad and it stays in place and feels comfortable. I love the layout and use the keyboard whenever I'm at my desk. I'm not totally convinced its worth the extra $. It doesn't seem like its quality matches however much more it costs than a some 60% Cherry setups. I do like it more than other keyboards I've used. It's legitimately my favorite. I just don't know if it's THAT much better. It's in a league of it's own, though, and hard to compare.
I also use an extra-large mouse pad (Perixx DX-2000) to go underneath both my keyboard and mouse. I like this strategy for many reasons, including the fact that it provides a continuous single-level surface for both the keyboard and mouse.
When I first got my Poker II ($100+), I bought two sets of dye-sub PBT keycaps for it ($100+ each) along with an aluminum case ($100+). Not counting both sets of caps, I had easily spent in excess of $300 to get closer to the Poker I wanted, but this did not change the fact that there were some intrinsic things about the keyboard that I couldn't readily change and didn't really like, such as Cherry mx switches.
In contrast, my HHKB Pro 2 works for me as it is. I happen to like Topre switches, the stock dye-sub PBT keycaps are excellent, and the form factor and layout suit me better than any other keyboard I have tried.
A common criticism of the HHKB Pro 2 is that it feels lightweight and hollow compared to the Poker II, which feels heavier and more solid. However, these properties have nothing to do with build quality -- they simply reflect different types of build. The HHKB Pro 2 uses case-mounted switches, whereas the Poker II uses steel plate-mounted switches. Nevertheless, for those who prefer more weight and a feeling of solidity, the Poker II may be more to their liking.
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Have you every used topre switches before?
I just got my first one and I love the feel, so I will definitely be picking up an HHKB Pro sooner or later.
I would see something like this as a long term investment, so the price is something I could justify, and the switches are peerless (IMO), I just like them so much more than cherry now.
I would say go for the HHKB.
My two cents.
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I agree with a lot of what people say about both keyboards.
The poker II is a great keyboard. I've also spent a good amount on an aluminum case and PBT keycaps. This keyboard was my daily runner, after I put my das4 away and typed away on this. I believe the biggest selling point for this keyboard is its incredible flexibility in modding. Don't like the switches you got, desolder, put some new ones in. Want a different style keycap set, easy. Cases, plentiful. It also has great programming ability and it is a great keyboard. However, I kept reading about topre and I happened to have a giftcard on amazon for 100 bucks off, I bit.
I got the HHKB and it was a different typing experience from blues and reds that I've used. It was interesting hearing a tock, tock, rather than a clack, clack. It's sort of hard to explain how it feels as I type on it. It's not a bad feeling, but its sort of one you get used to eventually. I understand how people can talk about how its all plastic compared to the aluminum cases you can get for pokers, but this keyboard is built quite well. I've taken it on flights, crammed in my backpack with no problems. I admit there were issues of it sliding around while typing on my table, so I just spent 3 bucks on some rubber feet at home depot and all is well.
I tried going back to my poker II for a while when I came back. I was using it for 2 weeks, but in the end I went back to my HHKB. I just liked the tactility of the switches. But that is my personal opinion. ;D
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I agree with a lot of what people say about both keyboards.
The poker II is a great keyboard. I've also spent a good amount on an aluminum case and PBT keycaps. This keyboard was my daily runner, after I put my das4 away and typed away on this. I believe the biggest selling point for this keyboard is its incredible flexibility in modding. Don't like the switches you got, desolder, put some new ones in. Want a different style keycap set, easy. Cases, plentiful. It also has great programming ability and it is a great keyboard. However, I kept reading about topre and I happened to have a giftcard on amazon for 100 bucks off, I bit.
I got the HHKB and it was a different typing experience from blues and reds that I've used. It was interesting hearing a tock, tock, rather than a clack, clack. It's sort of hard to explain how it feels as I type on it. It's not a bad feeling, but its sort of one you get used to eventually. I understand how people can talk about how its all plastic compared to the aluminum cases you can get for pokers, but this keyboard is built quite well. I've taken it on flights, crammed in my backpack with no problems. I admit there were issues of it sliding around while typing on my table, so I just spent 3 bucks on some rubber feet at home depot and all is well.
I tried going back to my poker II for a while when I came back. I was using it for 2 weeks, but in the end I went back to my HHKB. I just liked the tactility of the switches. But that is my personal opinion. ;D
Home depot sells rubber feet?
How thick?
What is the product name?
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Sorry, maybe the rubber padding was a bit much. What I bought were these rubber anti-skid pads, where its a self-adhesive. I cut the circles into a small shape to place right on the top, next to the two bumps.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-Self-Adhesive-Anti-Skid-1-1-2-in-Pads-8-Pack-49970/203661152
If you need height on the HHKB, they also sell these round bumpers, which I also saw. It seemed like it would do a good job, but I went with the anti- skid pads.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Shepherd-1-2-in-Surface-Gard-Self-Adhesive-Vinyl-Round-Bumpers-16-Pack-9967/100062406