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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Idiot_Hacker on Sun, 24 May 2009, 13:10:30

Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: Idiot_Hacker on Sun, 24 May 2009, 13:10:30: I personally like the Dell Bluetooth wireless keyboard with mouse combo. Although I hate the mouse, the keyboard is pretty decent even though it's a rubber dome. Looking at the dongle, I believe Logitech makes these.

Does anyone here have a rubber dome keyboard they like?
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: ozar on Sun, 24 May 2009, 14:40:24: I'm not sure that there is a truly great rubber dome board but some of the older IBM boards weren't too bad. I have one from 1999 that is probably the best rubber dome board I've ever used. That board was made in Thailand. I have another one that is the very same IBM model from 1999, but that one was made in China and it's total crap, so you can't even necessarily go by model numbers when buying some boards. Quality seems to have continued to go down hill since then.

I also have a Keytronics rubber dome board that feels better than most of those made today. I use it when I need quiet typing, or just want to feel something different.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: IBI on Sun, 24 May 2009, 14:45:31: There are some nice hybrid rubber dome boards like the Maxiswitch/Gateway ones and the Torpe Realforces.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: keyb_gr on Sun, 24 May 2009, 15:19:50: My old 1995 Packard Bell 5131C (a BTC affair, it seems) is a pretty nice 'board for a rubber dome, disregarding the slightly small lettering. Good tactile feel, no wobbling keys. I merely don't like that you have to bottom out the keys (as typical for a rubber dome), which my fingers aren't that fond of.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: zwmalone on Sun, 24 May 2009, 16:17:27: IBM M4s are supposedly great. Not a 'typical' rubber dome (not that it matters unless you need standard domes for some reason...) and can usually be had for relatively cheap. Also sold as the Unicomp Mighty Mouse.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: bhtooefr on Sun, 24 May 2009, 16:37:40: I don't mind the midnight grey Dell basic USB keyboards. The black ones suck horribly, though.

Off-topic: This thread shows up as "Is there an acceptable rubber..." on the front page. Discuss.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: Mercen_505 on Sun, 24 May 2009, 16:47:30: I vote for the M4. The keys are nice and wide, have decent throw, and it isn't too noisy to use in an office environment.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: ozar on Sun, 24 May 2009, 16:47:32: Quote from: bhtooefr;92487
Off-topic: This thread shows up as "Is there an acceptable rubber..." on the front page. Discuss.

I've always hated the damn things! :lol:
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: IBI on Sun, 24 May 2009, 17:56:35: Quote from: bhtooefr;92487
Off-topic: This thread shows up as "Is there an acceptable rubber..." on the front page. Discuss.

With the Das suffering problems and the HHKBs being really expensive it's not surprising that people are looking for acceptable rubbered out keyboards.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: watduzhkstand4 on Sun, 24 May 2009, 18:22:42: I think the Microsoft Natural Elite that I have is pretty nice. Short travel on the keystrokes. Me likey x]!
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: ynggrsshppr on Sun, 24 May 2009, 21:14:09: Quote from: ozar;92478

I also have a Keytronics rubber dome board that feels better than most of those made today. I use it when I need quiet typing, or just want to feel something different.

I like the Keytronic keyboards as well. After trying one out and reading about it here I was shocked to find that it was a membrane keyboard.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: JBert on Sun, 31 May 2009, 18:04:18: As far as rubber-domes go, I love my IBM (Model M-based) KB-8923.
Truth be told, as someone who grew up with PC's in the 90's with no exposure to mechanical keyboards, it's still my primary at-home keyboard. I'm going to retire it when I find a mechanical keyboard that fits me, but in the mean time it's certainly decent.

Main advantage is that the keyboard is sturdly built (noticeable in weight). On the other hand, a disadvantage is that the keys may clatter when typing at regular speeds.

It could be that the modern Unicomp equivalent is the Customizer with their "Enhanced Quiet Touch". I never typed on one though, so I couldn't say for sure.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: cchan on Mon, 01 June 2009, 10:07:33: I love my NMB RT6856TW. It's a really well constructed keyboard, and the keys don't feel mushy at all like most rubber domes.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: CX23882 on Mon, 01 June 2009, 14:03:43: Cherry Cymotion rubber domes (G86 - the G85 is scissor switch) are quite nice to type on, and some Dell keyboards are not too bad, so long as they've been looked after. There is something "special" (sorry, Simon Cowellism) about the Cymotion feel - you can tell it's rubber dome, no denying that, but it is very crisp and precise. There is a good amount of travel but the actuation point is very early, so you don't have to bottom them out to get the keys to register.

I used a Logitech rubber dome keyboard at work the other day, and the whole experience was very unenjoyable. Absolutely no response from pressing the keys and the lettering on the key caps was rough and raised around the edges (from where it's been stuck on). I'll not even mention the bastardized layout.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: huha on Tue, 02 June 2009, 05:38:55: Quote from: ripster;93828
CX - do you have the Cymotion Expert? It's $37 on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Cymotion-Expert-113KY-Spill-Resis/dp/tech-data/B000UHK274/ref=de_a_smtd) and was wondering if it could handle 6 key rollover. If you could do a quick check it might be a good one to recommend to gamers who wander in to Geekhack. Not a lot of boards available WW that are inexpensive

If you define 6-key rollover (I don't want to try every combination to find the two strange ones that don't work ;)), I could probably test it for you. We have these boards at out computer lab (although in grey), so testing it wouldn't be much of a problem.

I personally absolutely hate the Cymotion feel. It's crisper than a standard rubber dome, but doesn't feel good in any way whatsoever.
I think as far as rubber domes go, I prefer scissor switches.

-huha
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: IBI on Tue, 02 June 2009, 09:49:28: Quote from: huha;93851
If you define 6-key rollover (I don't want to try every combination to find the two strange ones that don't work ;)), I could probably test it for you.

Try ctrl+w+r and a+s+x.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: CX23882 on Tue, 02 June 2009, 10:51:07: Quote from: huha;93851
I personally absolutely hate the Cymotion feel. It's crisper than a standard rubber dome, but doesn't feel good in any way whatsoever.
I think as far as rubber domes go, I prefer scissor switches.
Do your Cymotion boards have grease on the plungers? The Cymotion Expert boards I bought did and they feel better than the non-greased but more-expensive Cymotion Master XPress.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: watduzhkstand4 on Tue, 02 June 2009, 10:53:48: Quote from: ripster;93719
I want.

Been searching on Ebay but only m4-1s keep coming up (http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-M4-1-61G2901-KEYBOARD-W-CABLE_W0QQitemZ280350964540QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item4146383b3c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50).

LOL - he calls the trackpoint a trackball. I call it "barbie's tit".

lmfao to the barbie's tit.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: huha on Tue, 02 June 2009, 11:19:47: Quote from: CX23882;93903
Do your Cymotion boards have grease on the plungers? The Cymotion Expert boards I bought did and they feel better than the non-greased but more-expensive Cymotion Master XPress.

I'm just feeling a bit uneasy when it comes to dissembling keyboards I don't own with several other students and video surveillance in the computer lab.

From my personal collection, neither Cherry's Evolution Stream nor Cymotion Pro will allow the key combinations posted to be pressed.

-huha
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: ironcoder on Tue, 02 June 2009, 12:07:36: It's not great but I'm typing on an SK-8820 now. Pretty good for a rubber dome. It's reasonably sturdy and heavy and stood up to my use in a dusty environment all day long for about a year. Still going strong.

One interesting thing it has huge rollover. I don't use it for gaming so I don't really care but I was surprised what the test said.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: keyb_gr on Wed, 03 June 2009, 05:12:34: Quote from: ironcoder;93924
One interesting thing it has huge rollover. I don't use it for gaming so I don't really care but I was surprised what the test said.

If it'll do SDFJKL and QWER, it has an IBM-style matrix (as one would expect in an IBM 'board), nothing too exotic. Should fail QWAS then.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: mesmer on Wed, 03 June 2009, 15:25:46: I don't mind the Dell QuietKeys. They give pretty good feedback.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: jazza on Tue, 09 June 2009, 04:44:43: Quote from: ironcoder;93924
It's not great but I'm typing on an SK-8820 now. Pretty good for a rubber dome. It's reasonably sturdy and heavy and stood up to my use in a dusty environment all day long for about a year. Still going strong.

One interesting thing it has huge rollover. I don't use it for gaming so I don't really care but I was surprised what the test said.

Reading this and seeing one for sale I bought one on a whim the other day.
It fails asx on the N-key test.
Will do CTL-e-a-s fails if you add the x.

Other impressions:

Good:
It's heavy, looks sturdy etc. Good in a fight then.
Will do w+a+tab (nwn key combo I use) and up arrow+right arrow+ctr; (flatout2 key combo I use). Both of which my old keyboard won't.
It's quiet (good?)

Bad.
It feels mushy... really mushy compared with my logitech internet keybaord (also rubber domed) that I have been trying to replace.
The left ctrl key will only depress if hit on exactly the center. Otherwise it sticks.
I pulled it out and had a look but it doesn't look like there's much that could go wrong... seems more like a design fault than anything else.
I swapped the two ctrl keys but that didn't make much difference.

So yes, wasn't really impressed. I would recommend the old Logitech internet keyboard (model Y-ST39) over this. Much better feel, keys don't move sideways or stick. Makes a good solid clack when bottoming out and hitting the spacebar. The logitech does have huge issues with roll-over though. :(

I'm going to have to try a mechanical I think. I think I have an apple one lying in a cupboard somewhere that feels quite good (wonder if it is mechanical... should check I suppose) but the connection is the same as that of a phone.

Jay
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: o2dazone on Tue, 09 June 2009, 08:31:46: Quote from: Idiot_Hacker;92469
Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?

Happy Hacking? ;)
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: cmr on Tue, 09 June 2009, 17:59:16: i typed on a keytronic rubber dome keyboard earlier that was better than most. it unfortunately had the wrong backspace/enter/backslash however.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: afton on Fri, 14 August 2009, 04:52:54: The keyboard in my office - Hewlett Packard KU-0316 is pretty good.
I actually prefer it to Das Pro.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: quadibloc on Fri, 14 August 2009, 05:54:12: I found the old Fujitsu keyboards acceptable.

EDIT: I have a couple of Hewlett-Packard keyboards that are good as well; however, these are keyboards for office computers, not for their home systems, and while I haven't opened them up, they seem to be mechanical switch keyboards.

EDIT: The old Fujitsu keyboard I was thinking of was the FKB 4700.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: Bollwerk on Fri, 14 August 2009, 05:55:43: We've got an Hewlett Packard keyboard too for our server. I don't know the serial number but it is quite bouncy.

I have an old keytronic but nothing jumps really out at me. Ok, maybe because of the age. (Must be the late 90's or so.)

I think of all ruberdomes, the G86 is worth a try. Cymotion boards have a good quality in comparison to many others.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 14 August 2009, 06:58:11: Yeah, whenever someone needs a new basic keyboard, the G86-6105 is my cheapo keyboard of choice. It doesn't have that nasty stiffness that the Dell boards do.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 14 August 2009, 07:14:18: I have a good rubber dome keyboard from 1991 made by NEC Technologies. It has black linear sliders underneath the keycaps which push the rubber domes. It's also got a steel plate in the back, although it is not as heavy as the Model M.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: rdh on Fri, 14 August 2009, 10:22:51: Quote from: ripster;109723
Show Image
(http://www.viewpoints.com/images/review/2007/253/10/1189439372-92583_full.jpg)

Is that HP a scissor switch?

We have lots of boards around the office that look just like your picture and ours are all simple rubber dome boards.

Maybe the perspective in that picture is making the keycaps look shorter than they really are?
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: cmr on Fri, 14 August 2009, 13:23:18: that keytronic looks pretty similar to the one i was referring to earlier in the thread.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: InSanCen on Sat, 15 August 2009, 11:09:01: IBM KB-9930

dirt cheap on the bay too...:wink:
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: quadibloc on Sat, 15 August 2009, 20:09:11: Quote from: rdh;109729
We have lots of boards around the office that look just like your picture and ours are all simple rubber dome boards.

The HP keyboards I have are much older than the one in that picture. At least until today, when I saw one like that on sale at a thrift shop. Even after removing all the visible screws, I could not open the keyboard, and it is so thin that it seems like it would have to be a rubber dome keyboard, but the keys do have a good tactile response, and a significant amount of travel.

There was another keyboard in the store as well, and its keys were obvious mushy rubber domes; there was simply no comparison with this one.

So if it's a rubber dome keyboard, it's a good one.

EDIT: Well, I've opened it up (the electronics in it apparently had a problem), and, yes, indeed it is a rubber dome keyboard.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: banyanleaf on Tue, 25 August 2009, 22:18:22: You call this dirt cheap?

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-IBM-RAPID-ACCESS-KB-9930-MULTIMEDIA-KYBORD-PS2-EBR_W0QQitemZ250400452132QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item3a4d07ae24&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

But I got one like new for a dollar from a yard sale. Can't complain for that price.

Quote from: InSanCen;109867
IBM KB-9930

dirt cheap on the bay too...:wink:
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: Xuan on Wed, 26 August 2009, 00:36:17: I have one of those (black), got it for $10.
Not as bad as most rubber domes, but crappy anyway.
Has problems with some keys getting stuck when not being pressed right in the middle (specialy left control, which is really annoying).
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: banyanleaf on Wed, 26 August 2009, 11:30:06: Kishy,

I have a Key Tronics just like yours. I found it new from a yard sale and it is a much nicer rubber dome than today's cheapos. If you use a flat screw driver and carefully pry the key cap off, you will see the switch.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: watduzhkstand4 on Wed, 26 August 2009, 11:51:36: I was going to say the BTC 5100C. Many said that that was one of the best rubber domes out there also a great form factor.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: Bruce on Wed, 26 August 2009, 12:27:50: I used a Sejin Mini SPR-8695 for a long time. I really like them but it is just membrane.
Just love the shape and size and they are bullet proof. Of all the mini's i've tried they seem to have the best spacing of the keys. I've not had a HHKB though. Here's the Sejin:-
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_big.asp?PRODUCT=180
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: o2dazone on Wed, 26 August 2009, 14:24:24: Has anyone here grabbed a Liberitouch

http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=545
http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=542
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: justin on Sat, 29 August 2009, 23:23:04: Quote from: JBert;93593
As far as rubber-domes go, I love my IBM (Model M-based) KB-8923.
Truth be told, as someone who grew up with PC's in the 90's with no exposure to mechanical keyboards, it's still my primary at-home keyboard. I'm going to retire it when I find a mechanical keyboard that fits me, but in the mean time it's certainly decent.

Main advantage is that the keyboard is sturdly built (noticeable in weight). On the other hand, a disadvantage is that the keys may clatter when typing at regular speeds.

I'm going to have to second that. I just finished modding an IBM KB-8923 to give it blue keys, a black case, grey WASD for games, and a white ESC key.
Don't get me wrong, the Model Ms have a fantastic feel that beats about anything, but I think I'll be keeping this one around as a "nocturnal" keyboard for after everyone goes to bed, to keep the noise down. It's good to have a decent quality quiet IBM as an alternative to the M.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: JBert on Mon, 31 August 2009, 04:30:56: Quote from: banyanleaf;111904
You call this dirt cheap?

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-IBM-RAPID-ACCESS-KB-9930-MULTIMEDIA-KYBORD-PS2-EBR_W0QQitemZ250400452132QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item3a4d07ae24&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
Anyone who writes "KEYOBARD" and "KYBORD" in one and the same listing is not to be trusted...
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: AndrewZorn on Mon, 31 August 2009, 05:26:08: Quote from: JBert;113282
Anyone who writes "KEYOBARD" and "KYBORD" in one and the same listing is not to be trusted...
come on surely they have just predicted the intelligence level of potential CUSTOMERS and thus are more likely to come up in a search

EDIT love the japanese ads, by the way:
(http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/image/title_shop.jpg)
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 08:35:58: Japanese ads are crazy. There is so much crap going on, I have no idea what the're trying to sell me. Is it for a keyboard or kitty litter.

Seriously, WTF, why is there a cat in the ad?
Title: Kensington Comfort Type and Matias Optimizer
Post by: hyperlinked on Mon, 31 August 2009, 09:26:23: Well, this is my first post. I'm glad I found this place. You guys are going to save me a lot of cash from all the keyboards I've been buying and stashing away in search of that one perfect interface.

My favorite membrane switch keyboards in terms of feel are the Kensington Comfort Type USB:
http://us.kensington.com/html/17167.html

And the Matias Optimizer:
http://matias.ca/optimizer/index.php

I'm currently using the Matias Optimizer and I still like it, but I think that the switches are feeling stiffer than they used to. My only problem with the Kensington is that it has a tendency to result in shadow keypresses when you start typing fast. The Matias Optimizer has the same issue too, though to a much lesser degree. The biggest problem with the Kensington is that one of the shadow key combos in the Kensington happens to activate a "select-all" action.

You can imagine the fun that will result from that. You're typing away when mysteriously you select all and type over everything you were working on.

Due to this one extremely fatal flaw, I'll only pull out my Kensington when my tendinitis is getting bad enough for me to resort to it, but I do like the feel of it very much. The keys on it have the rare combination of being both super springy and posessing of a very low activation force. It's so springy that it ends up producing a pseudo click when the keys bounce back in place. I put it through several months of very heavy use and found that it continued to work smoothly.

The Matias Optimizer is good enough for a membrane switch keyboard, but I wouldn't be using it if it weren't for its optimizer features. I'm very fond of the optimizer key combos and I've been eagerly awaiting to replace it with a Matias Tactile Pro 3.0, but that device is starting to look like vaporware with the number of times they keep pushing back the release date and the disaster that was the Tactile Pro 2.0.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: hyperlinked on Mon, 31 August 2009, 09:39:05: Quote from: CX23882;93748
I used a Logitech rubber dome keyboard at work the other day, and the whole experience was very unenjoyable. Absolutely no response from pressing the keys and the lettering on the key caps was rough and raised around the edges (from where it's been stuck on). I'll not even mention the bastardized layout.

I was a fan of the Logitech Internet Navigator Keyboard (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-967233-0403-Internet-Navigator-Keyboard/dp/B00006HMPG) that came out in the late 90's. I've found that a lot of the Logitech keyboards have a similar feel to that one keyboard, but my issue with the Logitechs is that they don't seem to suffer grime very well. I'm one of those people who [strike]eats[/strike] lives at his desk and it's never long before my keyboards look like a toaster oven tray. In about half a year, I found select keys becoming unnaturally stiff and sluggish.

I've owned two Microsoft membrane switch keyboards as well. I liked the feel of their ergonomic keyboard, but hated the ergonomic split keyboard design. It seemed to age ok for the short time that I had it. The Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard (http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Digital-Media-Pro-Keyboard/dp/B0002CPBUK/ref=dp_cp_ob_e_title_1) I had ended up like my Logitech Internet Navigator in only two months. That one did not age well at all.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 09:41:46: Quote from: itlnstln;113320
Japanese ads are crazy. There is so much crap going on, I have no idea what the're trying to sell me. Is it for a keyboard or kitty litter.

Seriously, WTF, why is there a cat in the ad?

The cat in that ad looks quite like my kitten, who likes to jump onto my Thinkpad's keyboard and try attack and the mouse pointer...
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: JBert on Mon, 31 August 2009, 09:41:48: Quote from: hyperlinked;113332
Well, this is my first post. I'm glad I found this place. You guys are going to save me a lot of cash from all the keyboards I've been buying and stashing away in search of that one perfect interface.
No...

We don't help you save money, we just make you feel less bad about it.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 09:52:09: Quote from: hyperlinked;113332
You guys are going to save me a lot of cash from all the keyboards I've been buying and stashing away in search of that one perfect interface.

Hah! Good luck with that.

BTW, welcome to GeekHack!
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: hyperlinked on Mon, 31 August 2009, 10:03:01: Quote from: itlnstln;113339
Hah! Good luck with that.

Hey, break me in slowly. I gotta sustain the illusion to myself (and my wife) that I'm about to start spending hours that I don't have on this site doing research for productivity reasons. ;)
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:17:01: Quote from: itlnstln;113320
Japanese ads are crazy. There is so much crap going on, I have no idea what the're trying to sell me. Is it for a keyboard or kitty litter.

Seriously, WTF, why is there a cat in the ad?

Maybe they're selling a kitteh wrist rest?
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:21:21: Quote from: Rajagra;113399
Maybe they're selling a kitteh wrist rest?

It looks soft, but I think it's a little too tall for my taste. At least it keeps itself clean.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: o2dazone on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:22:53: Quote from: JBert;113335
No...

We don't help you save money, we just make you feel less bad about it.

haha
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: clickclack on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:37:45: Quote from: JBert;113282
Anyone who writes "KEYOBARD" and "KYBORD" in one and the same listing is not to be trusted...

I have had a few of those, and they are not too good (feeling wise) most other IBM rubber domes feel better.

Quote from: hyperlinked;113333
I was a fan of the Logitech Internet Navigator Keyboard (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-967233-0403-Internet-Navigator-Keyboard/dp/B00006HMPG)...I had a few of those two, again not to good rubber dome wise (not the worst but...) .

I've owned two Microsoft membrane switch keyboards as well. I liked the feel of their ergonomic keyboard, but hated the ergonomic split keyboard design. It seemed to age ok for the short time that I had it. The Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard (http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Digital-Media-Pro-Keyboard/dp/B0002CPBUK/ref=dp_cp_ob_e_title_1) I had ended up like my Logitech Internet Navigator in only two months. That one did not age well at all.

I have had a couple of those too, again I didn't find them that great, but I believe some came with a faux leather and foam wrist wrest and that was kinda nice.

Quote from: ripster;113340

...It wouldn't take much to make a "pseudo-Topre" with some rubber domes and springs and some good engineering. You'd have to bottom out to register the key but you'd save mucho bucks.

I have had a few rubber dome boards that feel a bit like mechanical ones that dont need to bottom out. Some rubber domes have a different "snap" (for lack of a better term) to them. Some only require a partial hit and they will smack down on the membrane and return. But more interestingly I have a few keyboards that actually have either a spring and foam, rubber dome and foam, or spring and rubber dome and foam (sheesh) and at the bottom of the contacts is a metalic film (like mylar) that activates before the switch is bottomed out. Some of them kinda feel linear others feel very much like similar to black ALPS.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: sggsix on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:42:06: From my experience, the HHKB Lite-2 is the only rubber dome keyswitch board that I feel is bearable to use.

I do not know the logistics of most keyswitches. I just know how they feel. Thus, I do not know what is different about the rubber domes on the HHKB Lite-2 compared to other rubber domes. However, as far as feelings go, it feels more sturdy and responsive than most rubber domes. The keys never stick either.

By the way, I discovered geekhack's arcade, and I'm coming for all your top scores!!! So beware!

Another thing I was curious about is how our rankings change and when promotions occur regarding being a "junior member", "senior member", or "enlightened (as I think i've seen xsphat is)". :)))
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: hyperlinked on Mon, 31 August 2009, 13:59:27: Quote from: clickclack;113410
I have had a few of those, and they are not too good (feeling wise) most other IBM rubber domes feel better.
The early editions may have been better than what came out later. I had two of the early edition Logitech Internet Navigators. I used one at my work and I liked it enough to buy one for myself at home. I eventually moved onto other keyboards, but several years later after having struck out on many keyboards in a row, I went online to find something that worked in the past and got myself a new Internet Navigator. I don't know if it was me or if it was the keyboard, but it just didn't seem the same and in only a few months it went from ok to lousy after daily feedings of cracker bits and breadcrumbs.

Quote from: clickclack;113410
I have had a couple of those too, again I didn't find them that great, but I believe some came with a faux leather and foam wrist wrest and that was kinda nice.
The faux leather wrist rest was the nicest part of the Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard. The zoom stick in the middle was also pretty handy. If it were possible to saw the thing in half and reposition it, I'd have kept that keyboard.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: InSanCen on Mon, 31 August 2009, 16:39:56: Quote from: banyanleaf;111904
You call this dirt cheap?

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-IBM-RAPID-ACCESS-KB-9930-MULTIMEDIA-KYBORD-PS2-EBR_W0QQitemZ250400452132QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item3a4d07ae24&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

But I got one like new for a dollar from a yard sale. Can't complain for that price.

no, but this is... Much more typical of pricing for these things.
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-KB-9930_W0QQitemZ270438239492QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef7600d04&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: elbowglue on Thu, 22 October 2009, 18:39:08: Sorry to revive a dead thread: we got one of these at work and of all the rubber domes in the office, it's probably got the best springback. It's not that bad, it would be my choice of rubber dome if I had to use one.

Logitech Deluxe 250

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126013&cm_re=logitech_keyboard_250-_-23-126-013-_-Product
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: msiegel on Thu, 22 October 2009, 18:54:50: Quote from: elbowglue;127711
Sorry to revive a dead thread: we got one of these at work and of all the rubber domes in the office, it's probably got the best springback. It's not that bad, it would be my choice of rubber dome if I had to use one.

Logitech Deluxe 250

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126013&cm_re=logitech_keyboard_250-_-23-126-013-_-Product

"Pros: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz1234567890!@#$%^&*()-=_+
..."

XD
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: timw4mail on Thu, 22 October 2009, 20:52:08: Quote
The windows key is kind of annoying. It has a weird indent on it.

Umm...are people really this clueless?
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: hyperlinked on Thu, 22 October 2009, 22:30:02: Quote from: timw4mail;127727
Umm...are people really this clueless?

Actually... I am. Yeah, what's up with the indent on the Windows key? I've owned enough keyboards, but my Filco is the first keyboard I've owned that had the indent on the Windows key.

I assume that someone decided to do that as a way of providing tactile feedback, but is there a story here that I don't know about?
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: Rajagra on Thu, 22 October 2009, 23:00:46: Quote from: hyperlinked;127737
Actually... I am. Yeah, what's up with the indent on the Windows key? I've owned enough keyboards, but my Filco is the first keyboard I've owned that had the indent on the Windows key.

I assume that someone decided to do that as a way of providing tactile feedback, but is there a story here that I don't know about?

It was Microsoft (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=9&ved=0CB4QFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownload.microsoft.com%2Fdownload%2Fd%2Fe%2F1%2Fde1e0c8f-a222-47bc-b78b-1656d4cf3cf7%2FHardwareStartButtonV102.doc&rct=j&q=windows+logo+key+caps&ei=fyfhSriAKeLTjAfrnrG_AQ&usg=AFQjCNHIbZrft8RKY60UAvHzceYrNheYeg) "demonstrating their concern for their customers" by imposing some quite obscene (IMO) demands on hardware manufacturers.

Or as they say:
Quote
The Hardware Start Button, an update to the Windows Key for keyboards, is designed to be an attractive and discoverable actuator for launching the new Start menu and search experiences in the Windows*Vista family of operating systems. The Hardware Start Button creates and deepens affinity between physical hardware and the Windows*Vista user experience while complementing the brand platforms and product design languages of hardware manufacturers.

...followed by 23 pages of precise technical specs for how manufacturers must create those Windows keys. Yes, "must". They use that word a lot.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: FourOhFour on Fri, 23 October 2009, 07:53:38: Quote from: Rajagra;127746
...followed by 23 pages of precise technical specs for how manufacturers must create those Windows keys. Yes, "must". They use that word a lot.

To which I would respond with creating a button with a drawing of a door on it. But I guess keyboard makers think that would be confusing...
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 23 October 2009, 08:03:21: Quote from: FourOhFour;127787
To which I would respond with creating a button with a drawing of a door on it. But I guess keyboard makers think that would be confusing...

I looked through it, the specs are very picky. It's like you have to do this our way, or don't do it at all. Makes me wonder why more manufacturers just don't do it.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: hyperlinked on Fri, 23 October 2009, 09:07:16: Quote from: Rajagra;127746
It was Microsoft (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=9&ved=0CB4QFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownload.microsoft.com%2Fdownload%2Fd%2Fe%2F1%2Fde1e0c8f-a222-47bc-b78b-1656d4cf3cf7%2FHardwareStartButtonV102.doc&rct=j&q=windows+logo+key+caps&ei=fyfhSriAKeLTjAfrnrG_AQ&usg=AFQjCNHIbZrft8RKY60UAvHzceYrNheYeg) "demonstrating their concern for their customers" by imposing some quite obscene (IMO) demands on hardware manufacturers.

Or as they say:
Quote
...is designed to be an attractive and discoverable actuator for launching the new Start menu and search experiences in the Windows*Vista family of operating systems. The Hardware Start Button creates and deepens affinity between physical hardware and the Windows*Vista user experience while complementing the brand platforms and product design languages of hardware manufacturers.

That is about the funniest thing I've read in a while. Does Ripster have a Lego scene for this? Was someone trying to channel Steve Jobs in Redmond with a $2/hr medium?
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: xyzzy on Fri, 23 October 2009, 11:48:26: Quote from: timw4mail;127790
Makes me wonder why more manufacturers just don't do it.
Thankfully I haven't seen many keyboards with the Hero Hardware Start Button.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5345&stc=1&d=1256316480)
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 23 October 2009, 11:57:00: I can see why hardware manufacturers don't want to pay for the color logos, at any rate.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: JBert on Fri, 23 October 2009, 19:14:26: Quote from: elbowglue;127711
Sorry to revive a dead thread: we got one of these at work and of all the rubber domes in the office, it's probably got the best springback. It's not that bad, it would be my choice of rubber dome if I had to use one.

Logitech Deluxe 250

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126013&cm_re=logitech_keyboard_250-_-23-126-013-_-Product
You sure? I have seen some older Logitechs; they don't age well.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: elbowglue on Sat, 24 October 2009, 04:34:56: Quote from: JBert;127976
You sure? I have seen some older Logitechs; they don't age well.

Well, all I can comment is on this board in it's pretty new condition. My place of work is full of keyboards, the staff is typing about 25% of the day, all of the keyboards in the place are usually dell or lenovo branded rubber dome boards (except for my keyboards that I bought in myself). The majority of the staff "love" the replacement logitech Deluxe 250 rubber dome board they brought in to replace one of broken keyboards with.

I tried to type on it myself, it springs back pretty decently, but is nowhere as good as my dell At101w, chicony KB5181, brown cherry Cherry MX8100.

But as far as rubber domes go, non-technical and techincal people alike (the staff and myself) think this one works quite well.

It's the least smelly of the ****, let me put it that way.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: hyperlinked on Sat, 24 October 2009, 05:26:28: Quote from: elbowglue;127990
The majority of the staff "love" the replacement logitech Deluxe 250 rubber dome board they brought in to replace one of broken keyboards with.

I had one really good Logitech rubber dome keyboard. It was an old Logitech Internet Navigator. It eventually wore out and I moved onto other keyboards and eventually bought a new one some years later that never seemed as nice as what I remembered. Well, it was fine for a week, but it wore out stupid fast.

My Kensington Comfortype is rubber dome that held up well and my Matias Optimizer has been ok with age. Both have other problems though that have nothing to do with their switch type.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 24 October 2009, 19:51:30: Quote from: JBert;127976
You sure? I have seen some older Logitechs; they don't age well.

It's true that some rubber dome keyboards don't age very well. That being said, all rubber dome keyboards are not made equal and when new, some are better than others. And some people don't know anything than rubber dome keyboads. So when they do get one that works well, they are very happy. Ignorance is bliss...sometimes.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: willhs on Sun, 25 October 2009, 10:08:48: The Keytronic Ergo technology boards have the same weighting as Topres, and though I have not tried a topre, I can attest to the awesomeness of this board. I got the "Designer" model, but if you simply search newegg or amazon for "Keytronic ergo" you will find boards that use the same membrane for $14.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: rdh on Sun, 25 October 2009, 12:02:31: Quote from: willhs;128139
The Keytronic Ergo technology boards have the same weighting as Topres,

Well, similar but not identical weighting:

(http://www.keytronic.com/home/products/specs/images/ErgoColkeyv2.gif)

The original Das Keyboard was a rebadged Key Tronic of this type (but with blank key tops, and without the "Designer" case):

(http://www.daskeyboard.com/images/keygrams.jpg)
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: sixty on Mon, 26 October 2009, 10:14:45: I had the chance to try one of those Keytronic Ergo boards the other day.. and what can I say... It was actually pretty enjoyable! By now its already stored away in storage again, but I had it in use for a day to give it a fair chance, and it really wasn't bad. I guess over time they will become worse, but in the semi-new state it was really enjoyable to type on. I will post up a review sometime later.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 26 October 2009, 10:35:18: Quote from: ripster;128358
Better study up on female anatomy you Geekhackers.

I was getting a deeper understanding of this very thing just last night. When doing so, it's good to approach the topic from various angles and get all the positions on the issue.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 26 October 2009, 10:44:01: Quote from: ripster;128367
Sorry. I need pics to understand these things.

Here you go: http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Physiology-Dummies-Donna-Siegfried/dp/0764554220/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256571813&sr=8-1
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: williamjoseph on Mon, 26 October 2009, 10:45:14: as to the original question to the thread...... trojans. nuff said.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 26 October 2009, 11:19:31: Quote from: williamjoseph;128369
as to the original question to the thread...... trojans. nuff said.

The thread title clearly said acceptable. Try again.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 26 October 2009, 11:20:49: Jesus, ripster, you have a Lego pic for everything.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 26 October 2009, 12:38:06: I didn't know God looks like King Tut. Maybe ol' Tut's spending some Purgatory time doing data entry.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 26 October 2009, 17:38:44: Quote from: ripster;128396
Did your mother let you talk like that in the house?

A Rubber Dome Keyboard? Well, You're Forgiven My Son!
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5389&stc=1&d=1256578103)

If anyone is offended it's all ItlnStln's fault.

I like the Lego keyboard's QERY layout.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 30 January 2010, 17:56:25: Model Ms were more expensive back then than they are now. That's IBM pricing for you.

Out of curiosity, what layout is it that you require?
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: vils on Sat, 30 January 2010, 18:40:07: (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4317573706_9ca0f2f473_o.jpg)
This one I suppose, used in both Sweden and Finland.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 30 January 2010, 18:42:46: There are Finnish Topres from that retailer (whose name I cant remember). At €190 a pop, it's not exactly impulse buy material.
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: vils on Sat, 30 January 2010, 18:48:18: Quote from: ch_123;154898
There are Finnish Topres from that retailer (whose name I cant remember). At €190 a pop, it's not exactly impulse buy material.

Sounds interesting, any clues on where?
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 30 January 2010, 18:49:15: Here (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=7901&highlight=Finland+Topre)
Title: Is there an acceptable rubber dome keyboard out there?
Post by: microsoft windows on Sat, 30 January 2010, 20:33:18: There are also some international Model M's out there which you can customize to meet your needs.