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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: JaccoW on Thu, 17 July 2014, 12:23:39

Title: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: JaccoW on Thu, 17 July 2014, 12:23:39
Malaysian Air flight MH17 or KL4103 'crashed' (probably shot down) today over Ukraine.
More info at Reuters (http://live.reuters.com/Event/World_News).

a pro-Russian separatist was bragging earlier today that it had shot down a Tupolev but it's probably this commercial airliner instead.

It left from Amsterdam airport today. My parents are actually going the same way tomorrow and decided to take the flight tomorrow instead of today. So this is hitting a bit close to home for me.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: paicrai on Thu, 17 July 2014, 12:27:02
that's ****ed up
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 17 July 2014, 12:34:15
Wow. Glad your folks are okay. Russians starting s*%>t again. ProRussian Separatists ==FSB
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: JaccoW on Thu, 17 July 2014, 12:39:42
It's probably just some hot shot with weapons stolen from the Ukraine army but this will have consequences. I cannot imagine the international community will let this go easily.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 17 July 2014, 12:44:54
There is not enough incentive these days for rich countries to start a REAL WAR..

This is just rich people yelling at each other for the sake of international machismo, but when it comes to fists, they both have way too much to lose...




(Afghanistan was not a war, it was a flat out robbery)
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 17 July 2014, 12:44:58
I dunno, Jacco, I'm constantly amazed at what the intl community lets countries get away with...
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 17 July 2014, 12:46:48
It's probably just some hot shot with weapons stolen from the Ukraine army but this will have consequences. I cannot imagine the international community will let this go easily.


People like you and I and how we FEEL ABOUT IT, are irrelevant,  the truly influential people are the bankers and politicians,   and they don't listen to the you and me....

I want to believe in democracy and for the people,  but the reality haha....  we're beggars to them, they throw out bits of food, and we eat it...

That's the true nature of Government..
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 17 July 2014, 12:52:11
I dunno, Jacco, I'm constantly amazed at what the intl community lets countries get away with...

no body gets away with anything...

It's a numbers game with respect to countries at large..   if you have 20 million people.. and you kill off 1000... 2000....  10000....


That's really not a big deal with respect to total population...


So.. yes.. politicians will use such events to leverage themselves in international bargaining..  but they themselves don't really care about the lives of those people.. 

I don't blame them for this though,,  because in truth,, however much
they care, they still have the REST of the people to worry about who are not dead... 

so yes,  many people dead is bad in general,   but when it comes to evaluating HOW BAD.. 2000/20,000,000    is how the accounting is ultimately done...


so, when you evaluate how bad,  ^^^  these types of numbers aren't relevant to large play.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: JaccoW on Thu, 17 July 2014, 13:13:13
A summary so far:
http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856 (http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856).

I'm not sure. It's one thing to have people kill each other over a country. (Russia/Ukraine) (Israel/Palestine)
It's another thing to shoot innocent bystanders from a different country.

Malaysian air is a SkyTeam partner I believe...
That's KLM, British Air, Singapore Airlines, American Airlines, Air France...

Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 17 July 2014, 13:14:53
A summary so far:
http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856 (http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856).

I'm not sure. It's one thing to have people kill each other over a country. (Russia/Ukraine) (Israel/Palestine)
It's another thing to shoot innocent bystanders from a different country.

Malaysian air is a SkyTeam partner I believe...
That's KLM, British Air, Singapore Airlines, American Airlines, Air France...



I agree with you..  my point is not that though..

my point is the People-In-Charge..   DON"T CARE...


and in that respect, community talk about the incident itself doesn't help.. sigh......
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: redskull on Thu, 17 July 2014, 13:37:06
most news agencies claim the plane was shot down. but from initial videos, doesn't seem to be like that. :blank:
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: JaccoW on Thu, 17 July 2014, 13:46:30
most news agencies claim the plane was shot down. but from initial videos, doesn't seem to be like that. :blank:
Bodies have been found 15km from the crash site, indicating it fell apart mid-air.
But it could still fall down, relatively intact. But the photos indicate that it was pretty much obliterated when it hit the ground.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: Xenderwind on Thu, 17 July 2014, 13:53:54
most news agencies claim the plane was shot down. but from initial videos, doesn't seem to be like that. :blank:
Bodies have been found 15km from the crash site, indicating it fell apart mid-air.
But it could still fall down, relatively intact. But the photos indicate that it was pretty much obliterated when it hit the ground.
To my knowledge russian rebels took over an AA base or something a couple months ago.  They posted earlier showing off a BUK.  They also claimed to have shot down a su-25 and what they believed was a military transport (an-26).  This may be incorrect though.  My knowledge is coming from the huge reddit thread.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 17 July 2014, 13:57:03
most news agencies claim the plane was shot down. but from initial videos, doesn't seem to be like that. :blank:
Bodies have been found 15km from the crash site, indicating it fell apart mid-air.
But it could still fall down, relatively intact. But the photos indicate that it was pretty much obliterated when it hit the ground.
To my knowledge russian rebels took over an AA base or something a couple months ago.  They posted earlier showing off a BUK.  They also claimed to have shot down a su-25 and what they believed was a military transport (an-26).  This may be incorrect though.  My knowledge is coming from the huge reddit thread.

News by reddit eh?

why are they even that proud to shoot down an su 25 / an26

It's not like they got a Mig... (http://eemoticons.net/Upload/Big%20Onion/th_133.gif)

Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: redskull on Thu, 17 July 2014, 14:06:03
most news agencies claim the plane was shot down. but from initial videos, doesn't seem to be like that. :blank:
Bodies have been found 15km from the crash site, indicating it fell apart mid-air.
But it could still fall down, relatively intact. But the photos indicate that it was pretty much obliterated when it hit the ground.
the videos claiming to show the plane crashing don't show any signs of smoke trail or such. in any case, it was a horrible way to die.  :blank:
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 17 July 2014, 14:07:50
most news agencies claim the plane was shot down. but from initial videos, doesn't seem to be like that. :blank:
Bodies have been found 15km from the crash site, indicating it fell apart mid-air.
But it could still fall down, relatively intact. But the photos indicate that it was pretty much obliterated when it hit the ground.
the videos claiming to show the plane crashing don't show any signs of smoke trail or such. in any case, it was a horrible way to die.  :blank:

is there a "good way to die" ?  haha

but the smoke could've dissipated

which video did you watch.. the one I saw was only in russian..
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 17 July 2014, 14:10:38
Very sad. I think Malaysia Airlines has also bought the farm, through no particular fault of its own.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: Zeal on Thu, 17 July 2014, 14:19:27
That's very sad to hear.  :(
Malaysia's having a tough year lately. My condolences to the families that had members aboard that plane.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: iri on Thu, 17 July 2014, 14:31:46
Wow. Glad your folks are okay. Russians starting s*%>t again. ProRussian Separatists ==FSB
come on, that was iri himself.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 17 July 2014, 14:35:28
You work for the FSB??
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: iri on Thu, 17 July 2014, 15:08:32
I serve the FSB.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 17 July 2014, 15:15:01

I serve the FSB.

Lol I think we all do :-)

In all seriousness, when I said "Russians" I meant Russian gov't, not people. I have nothing against Russians. I'm sorry if I offended anybody.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: iri on Thu, 17 July 2014, 15:17:29
see location.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: Belfong on Thu, 17 July 2014, 18:35:53
I'm shocked to hear another MH downed. Wtf! So sad this morning to the news...
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: C5Allroad on Thu, 17 July 2014, 19:32:35
Holy **** man, glad your parents chose tomorrow.

Malaysia hasn't had a good year.
 :(
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: Distilled on Thu, 17 July 2014, 19:49:08
This is just messed up. Really hope every ones friends and family avoided this.

My brother was actually meant to be taking this flight, but changed it to next week. Although he didnt tell us until I rang him after seeing the news. Was almost sick waiting for him to pick up.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: Belfong on Thu, 17 July 2014, 19:52:25
What I don't understand is why FAA still allow commercial flight to do through the air space, knowing that it is currently having ground conflict. And the fact that a few military planes were shot down the previous week. This is such a bummer.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: JaccoW on Thu, 17 July 2014, 23:08:18
What I don't understand is why FAA still allow commercial flight to do through the air space, knowing that it is currently having ground conflict. And the fact that a few military planes were shot down the previous week. This is such a bummer.
It's a shorter route and cheaper. North Korea, Iran and Irak has planes flying over their territory as well.

Quote
A Schipol Airport official said during a press conference that there were 154 Dutch, 43 Malaysian (including 15 crew and 2 infants), 27 Australian, 11 Indonesian (including 1 infant), 9 United Kingdom, 4 Germany, 4 Belgium, 3 Philippines, and 1 Canadian residents on board.

41 passengers nationalities are known. There were reportedly 23 Americans on board.
Title: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 18 July 2014, 07:21:09
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/18/y8ezagyp.jpg)
The new flight path..
Title: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: paicrai on Fri, 18 July 2014, 08:22:21
everyone stay the fug out of eastern europe in general
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: iri on Fri, 18 July 2014, 08:24:43
everyone stay the fug out of eastern europe in general
don't breathe my precious air
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: bazh on Fri, 18 July 2014, 08:37:31
Show Image
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/18/y8ezagyp.jpg)

The new flight path..

and then there's Finnair

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/10252032_290358277813448_8869822391953042193_n.png)
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: Frenir on Fri, 18 July 2014, 08:40:25
Show Image
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/18/y8ezagyp.jpg)

The new flight path..

and then there's Finnair

Show Image
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/10252032_290358277813448_8869822391953042193_n.png)

Wow, that's very awkward.
Title: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: paicrai on Fri, 18 July 2014, 09:07:11
everyone stay the fug out of eastern europe in general
don't breathe my precious air
if you mean strong alcohol vapours, gunpowder, smoke, drugs, and sewage gasses, i'll be your guest
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 18 July 2014, 09:09:25
everyone stay the fug out of eastern europe in general
don't breathe my precious air
if you mean strong alcohol vapours, gunpowder, smoke, drugs, and sewage gasses, i'll be your guest

All of these things are everywhere.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: i3oilermaker on Fri, 18 July 2014, 09:41:10
wow
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: iri on Fri, 18 July 2014, 09:44:49
wow
hah
"don't ****ing fly, there's a ****ing war now"
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: paicrai on Fri, 18 July 2014, 10:11:54

everyone stay the fug out of eastern europe in general
don't breathe my precious air
if you mean strong alcohol vapours, gunpowder, smoke, drugs, and sewage gasses, i'll be your guest

All of these things are everywhere.
don't seem to be where i live
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 18 July 2014, 16:44:03
The thing is, because the plane was flying at 36,000ft, there are only two things that could have shot it down; a jet, or AAA, possibly this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K22_Tunguska or this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system

Your typical MANPADS (Man portable air defence systems) have a max range of about 4,500m, so even if someone fired one straight up, it wouldn't have a chance to take down something flying this high. MANPADS were supplied to the Mujahideen by the Americans to fight off the Soviets in the 80s, as a direct counter to the presence of HIND helicopters etc, and were highly effective.

The Tunguska is an absolutely incredible, pants ****ting inducing bit of kit. It can fire 30mm rounds at 5k rpm, and their newly upgraded missiles can hit a target 10km away (32,000ft), so it is very unlikely, but still possible that one of these could have shot it down. These are Russian made, but 70 are in use with the Ukranian army. If separatists shot down this plane with one of these, it means the Russians have been supplying them with even more equipment than was initially thought, which could drop them even more in the **** with the UN.

The Buk is a radar guided missile defence system with a range of over 20,000m. However, reports are saying that this would have to be manned by a skilled crew in order to hit anything, let alone discern between a cargo plane and a passenger jet. Reports coming out over the last few days suggest that the separatists are actually in control of at least one of these, but they need to be operated in conjunction with a radar platform of some kind to work at all, so I'm withholding my judgement on that one.

A jet could have shot the plane down, but I think AAA is more likely, as a jet would have been able to make visual confirmation, and even if the pilot hadn't, then he would have realised that the thing on his radar was moving at a much slower speed than expected.

Just a military nerd's 10p
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 18 July 2014, 16:47:23
The story that seems to be coming across in the usa anyway is that it was a BUK system and that the separatists did it but mistook it for another military transport and not a passenger jet.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: JinDesu on Fri, 18 July 2014, 16:50:32
The story that seems to be coming across in the usa anyway is that it was a BUK system and that the separatists did it but mistook it for another military transport and not a passenger jet.

With commentary saying that a properly trained crew (i.e. Ukrainian military) would not have made the grievous mistake of shooting down a passenger plane, leaving the conclusion that it was an improperly trained crew (i.e. separatists) that saw a plane and were not able to operate the complicated transponder identification portion of the BUK.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 18 July 2014, 17:14:44
Hmmm. That seems like a logical explanation.

But this would put Russia massively in the ****. It's one thing providing tanks that can b crewed by any man and his dog, but providing AAA that has this kind of consequences is serious trouble.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: Belfong on Sat, 19 July 2014, 02:12:50
Malaysia Airline is just so unlucky this year. This incident will surely put the company into bankruptcy (it's already on the verge and just a month ago had a new CEO).. Sigh!
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sat, 19 July 2014, 02:59:06
Just some observations without judging:

The Ukraine is a area between the newer Euro countries (some just recently added) and Russia
Russia is the head of the BRIC states initiative which wants to form the NDB to bypass the World Bank (uh-oh!)
The NDB and the perhaps resulting separate world currency would really hurt the US Dollar and Euro which are already in big trouble
All countries which tried to bypass the USD/Euro trading got "liberated", had a "revolution", or got in other trouble resulting to return to the USD
A big conflict in the area between Russia and the West would help to create a new cold war, and this would help to shut-off Russia/BRICs from the West
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: iri on Sat, 19 July 2014, 03:59:57
one tinfoil hat and a ticket to mars, please.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: keymaster on Sat, 19 July 2014, 05:00:06
Soul Hunter isn't crazy, but I don't think this incident has anything to do with it.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 19 July 2014, 06:29:55
Malaysia Airline is just so unlucky this year. This incident will surely put the company into bankruptcy (it's already on the verge and just a month ago had a new CEO).. Sigh!

Australia has been through a few major airlines going out of business.  Another one pops up to take its place.  It's a shame that two events that were pretty much out of the control of the company can cause such loss.

Just some observations without judging:

The Ukraine is a area between the newer Euro countries (some just recently added) and Russia
Russia is the head of the BRIC states initiative which wants to form the NDB to bypass the World Bank (uh-oh!)
The NDB and the perhaps resulting separate world currency would really hurt the US Dollar and Euro which are already in big trouble
All countries which tried to bypass the USD/Euro trading got "liberated", had a "revolution", or got in other trouble resulting to return to the USD
A big conflict in the area between Russia and the West would help to create a new cold war, and this would help to shut-off Russia/BRICs from the West

"The Ukraine" = "the border" - somewhat apt.  And probably why a lot of Ukrainians call their country "Ukraine".
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: iri on Sat, 19 July 2014, 06:34:39
wow, rowdy can slavic languages
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 19 July 2014, 07:01:52
wow, rowdy can slavic languages

Not really - I work with a few Ukis who are not afraid to educate me at every opportunity :))
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sat, 19 July 2014, 07:32:35
one tinfoil hat and a ticket to mars, please.

Well, I only stated known facts...
The tinfoil-hat is for the one who assumes/constructs some conspiracy theory out of it (you?) eh? ;P
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sat, 19 July 2014, 08:42:45
What the heck is wrong with people, I need a bunker with a lifetime supply of SPAM, Putin needs a hobby to distract him from nation building, why can't we all just get along?
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: berserkfan on Sat, 19 July 2014, 10:42:37
There will be no consequences. The perpetrators (the guys behind their puppets) are way too powerful.

At most future flights will avoid.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: dantan on Sun, 20 July 2014, 12:06:17
What the heck is wrong with people, I need a bunker with a lifetime supply of SPAM, Putin needs a hobby to distract him from nation building, why can't we all just get along?

Lifetime supply of SPAM sounds terrible. I already get more spam in one day than I want to read for a lifetime.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 20 July 2014, 17:14:39
What the heck is wrong with people, I need a bunker with a lifetime supply of SPAM, Putin needs a hobby to distract him from nation building, why can't we all just get along?

Lifetime supply of SPAM sounds terrible. I already get more spam in one day than I want to read for a lifetime.

I hope you're not casting aspersions on certain GH members :p
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: Heezy on Mon, 21 July 2014, 03:34:00
When I read that MH17's blackbox was found and sent to the Russians for investigation

(http://d3dsacqprgcsqh.cloudfront.net/photo/aZPAAz6_460sa_v1.gif)
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: iri on Mon, 21 July 2014, 03:49:26
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: Mooby on Mon, 21 July 2014, 04:12:35
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/09/19/article-2425854-1BEBEC8C000005DC-488_1024x615_large.jpg)
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: redskull on Mon, 21 July 2014, 23:45:33
the blackbox is going to the Malaysian side.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: iri on Tue, 22 July 2014, 02:09:06
Show Image
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/09/19/article-2425854-1BEBEC8C000005DC-488_1024x615_large.jpg)

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 22 July 2014, 10:38:20
Europe has turned into Putin's play toy.  And he might be the world's most powerful troll.
Title: Re: Malaysian air flight shot down over Ukraine
Post by: berserkfan on Wed, 23 July 2014, 06:39:45
Europe has turned into Putin's play toy.  And he might be the world's most powerful troll.

Aren't trolls usually big, lumbering muscle creatures without much brains?

Putin's more of a gnome in statue.

Or a goblin, since goblins are small and vicious and cunning.

I would definitely not call Putin a lumbering brainless creature. In fact trolls are pretty uncommon among world politicians (hate to call them world leaders).