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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: CX23882 on Sat, 30 May 2009, 05:08:21
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I bought a used G80-11800 from eBay in order to try out the Cherry MX brown and to have a nice keyboard to use with my servers where using a mouse is difficult.
It arrived this morning, and all I can say is that I love it. I don't know if the seller cleaned it up, but internally it is spotless. I expected having to clean all kinds of crud from below the keys but there was nothing. It's used though, because it has a couple of scratches near the front edge and also seems to have had something stuck to it at some point. After a quick clean up of the glue, it looks good.
It is a lot of fun to type on and I might say that I prefer it to the MX blue switch. I think that I'm beginning to favour lighter switches over the heavier ones. I'm pretty certain that I'm bottoming out but the landing feels softer than the blues somehow (when also bottoming out). The browns are not clicky but they can still make a decent amount of noise when typing and I think I prefer the sound they make to the click that the blues generate.
I was surprised to see that the trackball is optical. I was expecting it to be mechanical based on the age of the keyboard, but it's optical and works surprisingly well. It can absolutely be used to replace a mouse where space is a problem.
I'm now considering two options. Either swap the browns and the blues, so that I have the browns in my G80-3000 or to try and locate a "proper" keyboard with the browns. I would really like to have a UK layout though, and it seems that most keyboards with the browns are either US or Japanese layouts.
How difficult is it to swap the switches around, and how delicate an operation is it?
I also decided to give the G84-4100 another chance, and I think it's growing on me. It does feel cramped, and for the first 10 minutes I was making lots of typos, but after that time to adjust I think I'm back up to a reasonable speed. I'm not fond of the extremely bold lettering on the keycaps and I wonder how long it will last before it begins to wear off because it just looks like it's painted on. My only other complaint with it is the tiny spacebar, on account of this version having all three Windows keys (why oh why didn't they just drop the right one like most laptops do?). The G84 is definately stiffer than either of the G80 boards but there is something "fun" about using it (more so than even the MX browns). It is very comfortable if doing a lot of work that involves both the keyboard and the mouse due to everything being centred.
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From the little experience I have with swapping the spacebar on the 11800 with esc, the process is pretty simple. If you're doing the whole board, you will probably want to make a tool (http://my3c.com/D5/viewthread.php?tid=4625&extra=&page=1) out of a steak fork, though it can be easily done with a paper clip (going to take a lot longer).
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Thanks, that's something to think about then.
Further to my comments on the G84-4100; I'm really starting to like it, and it doesn't feel as cramped as it did at first use. It's a tough call between Cherry MX Brown vs Cherry MX Blue vs Cherry ML. They each have their own individual merits.
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My G80-11800 should arrive next week (yaay!), so I don't know how switches are mounted; if they're PCB mounted, swapping them is no problem at all, if not a bit time-consuming.
I bent a paperclip to act as a hook for opening the MX switches' casing and then you'll just need plenty of time. It's quite easy to actually do it, but it takes time.
-huha
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How difficult is it to swap the switches around, and how delicate an operation is it?
If you fancy trying some switch swapping, you may want to build the ultimate exclusive Cherry extractor:
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=1551&d=1214497745)
A clean desk and a couple of hours are the other ingredients you need :)
More details in the original thread: http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=62693&postcount=12
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If you do decide to do it please post a few pics and an estimate of the time involved.
I'm not trying to start a "Switch Per Minute" competition. It's just if I decide to turn a Deck "Policeman Special" LX Compact Keyboard into a Blue Cherry board I want to know what I am getting into.
Déck/TG3 Policeman Special boards have plate mounted switches with integrated LEDs. Very hard to swap from what I've read.
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I broke 3 LEDs and one solder pad. Luckily I got same LEDs from my friend and corrected the copper trace with a wire.
The story is written in the page in Japanese.
And the answer is YES, all the LEDs are functional. pictures at the bottom part of the page were took after the mod finished.
Still have another TG3 to be swapped to the Browns. every switches and LEDs were securely removed but the board has been left
undone for nearly 4 years since then.
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Switching between the 11800 and the 3000 will be no problem. Both 'boards use PCB-mounted switches. Swapping switches with a Filco; however, would be much more challenging.
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Yaay!
My G80-11800 came today. It was cheap (1 Euro + shipping), incredibly dirty (eww ...) and, best of all, it features ... this (http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2541&stc=1&d=1243888960) funny little fellow. Lovely!
-huha
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Let us know how you like typing on it whn you get it cleaned up. I know I could do a little cleaning if I got one for 1 Euro. Great buy.
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Let us know how you like typing on it whn you get it cleaned up. I know I could do a little cleaning if I got one for 1 Euro. Great buy.
You did look at the picture, right?
Luckily, my time is absolutely worthless and cleaning up the thing (it's a total mess!) will take some time. The case itself seems to be a lost cause, I think I'll just get some sandpaper and sand it down.
-huha
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Oh, I didn't catch it the first time I looked at it. The PCB is cracked, right. That sucks. Are you going to try to get your money back from the seller or just eat the 1 Euro + shipping.
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Is that a crack in the PCB? I missed it the first time. Are you going to try and get your money back from the seller?
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Oh, I didn't catch it the first time I looked at it. The PCB is cracked, right. That sucks. Are you going to try to get your money back from the seller or just eat the 1 Euro + shipping.
It's just the few keys that don't work and I've got a soldering iron anyway (although I lack the wires! Luckily this happens now, as I need to order some components anyway), so fixing this shouldn't be that much of a problem; I just hope the crack doesn't progress much further. Still, cleaning the whole thing and then discovering the crack is kind of a bummer.
On a sidenote, I always thought the brown switches to have more tactility. I can barely feel any, it almost feels linear. I'll have to fix the thing up and then see if I can stand them.
-huha
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On a sidenote, I always thought the brown switches to have more tactility. I can barely feel any, it almost feels linear. I'll have to fix the thing up and then see if I can stand them.
-huha
I am not sure what switches you have use in the past, but if you haven't used anything as light as Cherry browns, you might be pushing right through the tactility. I did the same thing when I got my 11800 coming from using Alps switches. That, and as abused as this thing is, the switches are probably well-used and broken-in. It took me a couple of weeks to really warm up to the Cherry browns. Now, I type light enough to where I can easily feel the tactility in the switches.
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I am not sure what switches you have use in the past, but if you haven't used anything as light as Cherry browns, you might be pushing right through the tactility. I did the same thing when I got my 11800 coming from using Alps switches. That, and as abused as this thing is, the switches are probably well-used and broken-in. It took me a couple of weeks to really warm up to the Cherry browns. Now, I type light enough to where I can easily feel the tactility in the switches.
I didn't really type on them yet, just pushed a few ones. The keycaps are actually only pretty lightly used, so I don't know why it was so incredibly dirty.
I'll try them out, but seeing what else I've already tried, I think browns are not for me. I'm a buckling spring user and modded my blues to greens because I thought they were too light.
-huha
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swapping the internals is pretty easy. I swapped the spacebar with the pause|break key. the only think you have to swap is the spring and that's pretty much it! Good luck.
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swapping the internals is pretty easy. I swapped the spacebar with the pause|break key. the only think you have to swap is the spring and that's pretty much it! Good luck.
It's easy, but time-consuming. If everything is cleaned, repaired and working again, I'll try out browns. It's entirely possible I'd like to have harder springs in there, but maybe I can do another spring swap. A suitable donor board should arrive in the form of a G80-11900 (with trackpad!) which uses blacks.
I definitely have to stop spending so much on keyboards, but the 11900 was somewhat cheap (NIB, EUR 35 with shipping), so I couldn't resist. On a sidenote, there's not much you can buy in Germany anyway, so I should have quite a decent cross-section by now. The only things missing are MX whites/clears, tactile Alps (are they available in Germany?) and Cherry ML.
-huha
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It's easy, but time-consuming. If everything is cleaned, repaired and working again, I'll try out browns. It's entirely possible I'd like to have harder springs in there, but maybe I can do another spring swap. A suitable donor board should arrive in the form of a G80-11900 (with trackpad!) which uses blacks.
I definitely have to stop spending so much on keyboards, but the 11900 was somewhat cheap (NIB, EUR 35 with shipping), so I couldn't resist. On a sidenote, there's not much you can buy in Germany anyway, so I should have quite a decent cross-section by now. The only things missing are MX whites/clears, tactile Alps (are they available in Germany?) and Cherry ML.
-huha
when you say tactile alps do you mean like black alps like the dell at101w?
I am horrible with geography but this guy has it on ebay NIB from the UK.
It's on the same continent so I don't know if this will help, but here is the link.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250434987073&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123
Good luck!
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How loud are ML switches compared to browns?
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My soldering skills are absolutely horrible, but it seems to work now.
EE students/electronic hobbyists, please look away in 3...2...1...
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2553&stc=1&d=1244033284)
Any idea on how to test the trackball's ruby bearings? I have the suspicion one of them is not rotating freely, but they are so puny and unremarkable I can't see if they actually do. If I had a black permanent marker, I'd paint a small dot on each of them and see if it moved, but this is not possible due to me not having a black permanent marker.
-huha
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How loud are ML switches compared to browns?
In general, they're quieter, but it depends on the overall construction of the keyboard.
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Maybe you can drill small holes at the end of the cracks to stop them from spreading further.
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Maybe you can drill small holes at the end of the cracks to stop them from spreading further.
I'll do this as soon as I have access to suitable drills.
Also, the trackball is a bit sticky and jumpy at times; I suspect one of the ruby bearings is not rotating freely, but don't know how to test or remedy it. Any ideas on that one?
-huha
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huha writes:
> Also, the trackball is a bit sticky and jumpy at times; I suspect one
> of the ruby bearings is not rotating freely, but don't know how to
> test or remedy it. Any ideas on that one?
Are you sure they're supposed to rotate at all? I suspect they are fixed
in place, just providing a surface with low friction and high wear
resistance. The similarly-shaped nylon bearings in my TrackMen don't
rotate either.
regards,
andreas
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Are you sure they're supposed to rotate at all? I suspect they are fixed in place, just providing a surface with low friction and high wear resistance. The similarly-shaped nylon bearings in my TrackMen don't rotate either.
I do think they should rotate, but I'm not entirely sure. Anyway, the problem was solved by pouring some alcohol in the assembly and rotating the ball. It's smooth now; I suspect dirt got into the mechanism and caused problems (the whole board was really dirty).
-huha
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I find that trackballs work smoother if you take the ball out and roll it between your hands for a bit.
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I find that trackballs work smoother if you take the ball out and roll it between your hands for a bit.
or on your face